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Folt Warlock Necromancer from Hollow Bastion! >=D Since: Jun, 2010
Warlock Necromancer
#60676: Oct 10th 2014 at 2:56:13 AM

To sum up all the differences:

Dr. Mario
  • Slower in every which way except falling speed.
  • Jump height (all kinds of it) is worse than parent.
  • Slowed down (and some different) idle animations from the parent.
  • F-Smash uses a different element from parent and is also visually different. Strongest when you hit with the inside, rather than the outside.
  • Nair gets stronger the longer it's out.
  • Different Dair and Down Special
  • Higher damage and knockback on average.
  • Side Special doesn't stall in the air.
  • Neutral Special have stronger bounce and a rather weird trajectory.
  • Fair doesn't have the parent's meteor, but does have a sweetspot.
  • Final Smash is visually different.
  • Up Special is now a power move instead of a multihit move like the parent.

Dark Pit

  • Neutral Special is a variant: Projectiles do more damage and are harder to control.
  • Side Special is a variant: It's electric-elemental and sends opponents at a different angle.
  • Final Smash is different from parent.

Lucina

  • Power (damage and knockback) is balanced throughout the entire moveset, but is otherwise the exact same as the parent, including the need to sweetspot the dair for a meteor.

All of them

  • All of their Taunts are different. (May have to check this regarding Marth and Lucina though.)

And my thoughts on each:

Dr. Mario will need to be played differently from his Melee incarnation and from the Mario in this game. I'd wager that him and his parent are rather close to each other in terms of viability, but only if you play up to their strengths (Mario's speed, comboability, and general effectivness vs. Doc's higher power and early kill potential).

Lucina and Dark Pit play more like their parents. Though Lucina is touted as a more aggressive way of playing Marth, she actually benefits more if you play her like how you'd play Marth, and that's because of how Marth's moves are designed to complement his playstyle. Lucina does benefit in terms of not needing to tip to get power, but Marth may end up being the favorite on higher levels of play. Dark Pit has few differences from Pit besides his arrows, Final Smash, and Side Special, but their arrows do form one of the cores in their gameplay and Dark Pit's Side Special can set up for some combos from the side in contrast to Pit whose Side Special can set up some combos from below.

edited 10th Oct '14 3:23:59 AM by Folt

Fantastic Supreme Überkaiser Emperor Folt of The Infinity and Beyond" ... "The First"!
Folt Warlock Necromancer from Hollow Bastion! >=D Since: Jun, 2010
Warlock Necromancer
#60677: Oct 10th 2014 at 3:22:17 AM

First off, Dr. Mario is a costume, down to its very concept. Last I checked, there is literally nothing to indicate that he isn't an AU version of the plumber at best, and that in itself is just Fan Wank. Unless we're going to advocate Hooded Mac with faster running speed for the next game, he'd be perfectly fine as an alt.

I'm guessing he got to be his own character because Melee essentially made him different. Other than that, Miyamoto has said that he can't envision Mario as a doctor, so there is some strength for seeing him as a different character altogether. Besides, his own properties in Melee made him an ideal extra character to put into For.

And of course T.Link (who, also like Y.Link, was consistently deemed as simply lighter and generally better Link; not sure where "widely different" comes from) and Ganon got more work done; three Smashes worth of development, in fact. So why exactly are they still so easily subjected to frankly accurate "X, only with Y" remarks? Where is the 'work' that was supposedly done on them shown?

Toon Link can't really be a complete clone of Link. Besides using a different Boomerang, Toon Link has stubby legs which would make copying Link's nair impossible, and he also has a different u-smash, fair, bair, f-throw, and b-throw, with other similiar moves getting different functions. They also get different custom moves and have different dash attacks now.

As for Ganondorf, even he had his differences back in melee, having different physics from Cpt. Falcon, having a different jab and fair, and his u-tilt being altered so radically that it can be considered unique as well, and some of his moves, besides being stronger and slower, also functioned differently. Besides that, he utilizes darkness in his attacks while Cpt. Falcon utilizes fire. In Brawl, Ganondorf got a unique f-tilt, d-tilt, u-smash, u-throw and side special, and more of his moves were differently animated. Dark Dive also got a hitbox at the end of the move which turned it into a variant of Falcon Dive instead of the clone move it was proper. In U/3DS, he kept those changes and also got some different Custom Moves from Cpt. Falcon like being able to use the Sword of the Sages for a Warlock Punch variant.

In fact, can we even say that they're putting any real effort into non-Luigi/Falco clones when, two whole games later, as you yourself have pointed out, a genuine clone corner exists?

My answer to this? Yes. In fact, I'd say that both Toon Link and Ganondorf have gotten as many changes as Falco and maybe even more.

Fantastic Supreme Überkaiser Emperor Folt of The Infinity and Beyond" ... "The First"!
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#60678: Oct 10th 2014 at 3:58:56 AM

So are the drop rates for the Mii Custom Outfits really low? Cause I've done Classic over 20 times and haven't gotten one yet, it's the only challenge I have left to do on the first block and I don't have any hammers left.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Tarsen Since: Dec, 2009
#60679: Oct 10th 2014 at 4:01:10 AM

it is low. but try classic mode at a higher intensity. 7.0 to 9.0ish, you should see the reel provide higher numbers, though you'll still have to get the red spanners which is still going to be bothersome, but its the best idea i got.

Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#60680: Oct 10th 2014 at 4:03:46 AM

I don't know if you can use the Pause trick. I think Target Blast might work too for helping getting them. Sadly, they're as hard to get as Trophies in Brawl, possibly more.

@Demonfly: Correction; Dr. Mario was created as a silly costume in the Live-Action show. He was never attempted to be treated as a costume in the games. Miyamoto even implied Mario would not be a Doctor either, by not taking that role. That could mean he sees them as separate people. Keep in mind it's different from being a fake doctor, since that's still the role of a doctor. They're very different ideas. I'm not believing this article, due to the fact that Sakurai has outright said to a fan that Dr. Mario would never use fireballs when he asked if he could be a costume. Meaning he probably did not do what the article says. In addition, the source is unreliable and since when does he outright flame the fans? He may be a little trollish, but this? It sounds more like a fabricated article used to give a take that to fans. Also, them all being costumes(except Lucina, which is confirmed), is entirely a fan theory. So it being fake is even more likely. Kotaku is a far more trustworthy website too. Not Nintendoeverything. They might've even translated it wrong. Maybe he meant all but one is a costume but said it weirdly. I'd say we take this with a grain of salt. It's contradictory.

Shadow?
BaffleBlend Hey there! Having fun? from Somewhere Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: LET'S HAVE A ZILLION BABIES
Hey there! Having fun?
#60681: Oct 10th 2014 at 4:04:40 AM

If you're custom farming at 9.0, quit if you lose in the final battle once. You lose a few of your rewards for every loss, but if you choose not to continue, you can walk away with everything else.

since when does he outright flame the fans? He may be a little trollish, but this?
He DID proudly call all non-casuals "maniacs" in a Famitsu interview.

edited 10th Oct '14 4:09:19 AM by BaffleBlend

"It's liberating, realizing you never need to be competent." — Ultimatepheer
Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#60682: Oct 10th 2014 at 4:20:53 AM

That's nowhere the same thing as calling them childish. Also, what article? I never saw that one nor do I remember it if I did.

Also, it depends how you take it. Childish means immature brat. Nobody really thinks it means anything else. Maniac could mean "really love this stuff" or "insane". So it may have not been meant as more than a joke about their dedication. This feels like an entirely different kettle of fish here. I need to see the context of the article first.

Shadow?
MightyKombat I am he as you are he as you are me and we are a from in mai mouffff (Ten years in the joint)
I am he as you are he as you are me and we are a
#60683: Oct 10th 2014 at 4:39:48 AM

Hee probably meant "Maniacs" in a good way.

Still kinda finding it funny some people are calling For Glory Macs the second coming of Super Turbo Akuma or other such dumb stuff considering he's as hazardous as fuck as he is good.

Are explosions science?
BaffleBlend Hey there! Having fun? from Somewhere Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: LET'S HAVE A ZILLION BABIES
Hey there! Having fun?
#60684: Oct 10th 2014 at 4:43:42 AM

Yeah, people who consistently lose to Little League Macs clearly don't know how to grab or tilt.

"It's liberating, realizing you never need to be competent." — Ultimatepheer
Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#60685: Oct 10th 2014 at 4:48:18 AM

Okay, the phrase Little League Mac is making me laugh hard. [lol]

Although to be fair, Control Pads aren't doing well for everyone, so it is possible some are having trouble due to that alone. But I'm sure they'll be able to get better against Little Macs with practice.

Also, imagine if Metal Sonic was an Alt. Metal Metal Sonic.

And we already got Giant Little Mac. It's worse than Giant Young Link, since the words are an oxymoron. tongue

Shadow?
MightyKombat I am he as you are he as you are me and we are a from in mai mouffff (Ten years in the joint)
I am he as you are he as you are me and we are a
#60686: Oct 10th 2014 at 4:49:32 AM

A Metal Sonic alt would be rad.

Metal Mega Man tho. Isn't he like already MADE of metal or some shit?

Are explosions science?
Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#60687: Oct 10th 2014 at 4:51:33 AM

It's only funny in the Japanese version, but Metal Robot. Whoops.

Shadow?
BaffleBlend Hey there! Having fun? from Somewhere Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: LET'S HAVE A ZILLION BABIES
Hey there! Having fun?
#60689: Oct 10th 2014 at 4:54:06 AM

I'm kind of disappointed that there's no Metal Box- or Super Mushroom-granting equipment, at least not that I've been able to find. I wanted to play as/against the N64 bosses. -_-

"It's liberating, realizing you never need to be competent." — Ultimatepheer
Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#60690: Oct 10th 2014 at 4:57:19 AM

Special Mode is gone too. I'm sure that it'll be back for the Wii U version. No idea why. More limitations?

Shadow?
BaffleBlend Hey there! Having fun? from Somewhere Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: LET'S HAVE A ZILLION BABIES
Hey there! Having fun?
#60691: Oct 10th 2014 at 5:06:06 AM

[up]Well, we knew from the start that Smash 3D would only have the core essentials.

Coin Battle's gone, too.

edited 10th Oct '14 5:06:32 AM by BaffleBlend

"It's liberating, realizing you never need to be competent." — Ultimatepheer
MightyKombat I am he as you are he as you are me and we are a from in mai mouffff (Ten years in the joint)
I am he as you are he as you are me and we are a
#60692: Oct 10th 2014 at 5:08:23 AM

Yeah I noticed that too. Bit of a shame really.

Are explosions science?
Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#60693: Oct 10th 2014 at 5:09:20 AM

That annoys me more than the lack of Bonus Mode(I love Bonuses~). I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't realize the 3DS was more limited till after he got into the project and had to release a statement about the issues.

I think if he had an idea, he might've made it just for the Wii U instead. I like Smash on the go, don't get me wrong, but I think more knowledge may have affected his ideas. The New 3DS wasn't made yet, so he couldn't throw it on there. I'm sure he would've if he had a chance.

Shadow?
Folt Warlock Necromancer from Hollow Bastion! >=D Since: Jun, 2010
Warlock Necromancer
#60694: Oct 10th 2014 at 5:58:12 AM

On the other hand, the content we did get for Smash on the go is rather meaty itself so it's cool.

Fantastic Supreme Überkaiser Emperor Folt of The Infinity and Beyond" ... "The First"!
Tarsen Since: Dec, 2009
#60695: Oct 10th 2014 at 6:00:06 AM

neat. got 2 different mii outfits from winning smash run with game and watch =O

lucky!

Folt Warlock Necromancer from Hollow Bastion! >=D Since: Jun, 2010
Warlock Necromancer
#60696: Oct 10th 2014 at 6:01:54 AM

I only need two Mii outfits: One for the Swordfighter and one for the Brawler. I have all the outfits for the Gunner.

Fantastic Supreme Überkaiser Emperor Folt of The Infinity and Beyond" ... "The First"!
BaffleBlend Hey there! Having fun? from Somewhere Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: LET'S HAVE A ZILLION BABIES
Hey there! Having fun?
#60697: Oct 10th 2014 at 6:07:35 AM

How do you know when you have them all?

"It's liberating, realizing you never need to be competent." — Ultimatepheer
Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#60698: Oct 10th 2014 at 6:08:54 AM

Indeed. I love the super high amount of content, and the games are top-notch quality in most areas.(I did like Brawl, but I felt it wasn't that polished. The content was cool, though.)

Also, YMMV, but I kind of do like the SSE more than Smash Run. It may be due to the fact I find the Control Pad hard to work with. But none of the boss enemies felt as annoying at all. I have a harder time in Smash Run so far. However, the Race to the Finish remake rules~

Shadow?
Nouct over the front from an east coast Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: Tell me lies, tell me sweet little lies
over the front
#60699: Oct 10th 2014 at 6:11:43 AM

[up][up]It gives you a notification.

Tarsen Since: Dec, 2009
#60700: Oct 10th 2014 at 6:24:59 AM

finally beat all-stars on normal. i hate hate hate rainbow road and the stage was a far bigger threat than the cpu.

anyways, i unlocked the 3rd challenge board even though i didnt finish all challenge on board 2.

considering all needed to be done for 1 that was...baffling.


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