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FullMoon feeling blue from Surface Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
feeling blue
#58751: Sep 23rd 2014 at 7:02:50 PM

Makes me wonder if Mario Kart had an option to turn items off, if most people would do it.

BaffleBlend Hey there! Having fun? from Somewhere Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: LET'S HAVE A ZILLION BABIES
Hey there! Having fun?
#58752: Sep 23rd 2014 at 7:03:29 PM

[up]It actually does.

"It's liberating, realizing you never need to be competent." — Ultimatepheer
Zarek Rollin' rollin' rollin' from Jakku Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Rollin' rollin' rollin'
#58753: Sep 23rd 2014 at 7:05:07 PM

Mario Kart, IMO, doesn't have a lot mechanically outside items. I feel like it would lose something without items, not to mention making it a lot harder to catch up to people. Smash Bros, meanwhile, still functions perfectly well sans items.

[up]...Oh. Weird.

edited 23rd Sep '14 7:05:42 PM by Zarek

"We're home, Chewie."
Blueblur21 Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#58754: Sep 23rd 2014 at 7:06:42 PM

[up] I agree with this guy. Smash Bros plays very well without items.

FullMoon feeling blue from Surface Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
feeling blue
#58755: Sep 23rd 2014 at 7:06:45 PM

Guess you learn something new everyday.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#58756: Sep 23rd 2014 at 7:07:49 PM

It does, but most people don't, from what I can tell. The game is actually not very balanced without items, since it just comes down to who has the fastest kart and starts in the lead, then.

Random items are never balanced, but it's ironically more balanced than without since there's at least some predictability to them.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Lordvatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#58757: Sep 23rd 2014 at 7:09:02 PM

I can't help but feel that if Smash never had items in the first place, it would lose something. Not gonna say I don't occasionally turn them off though.

This song needs more love.
Blueblur21 Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#58758: Sep 23rd 2014 at 7:10:38 PM

[up] I agree. Items have been in since the beginning. I still turn them off sometimes, like when I want a legacy match between Mario and Sonic.

FullMoon feeling blue from Surface Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
feeling blue
#58759: Sep 23rd 2014 at 7:11:01 PM

I dunno, I don't think all items would need to be removed. Things like the Beam Saber and the Star Rod wouldn't really impact the match too much to make a big difference I think.

BaffleBlend Hey there! Having fun? from Somewhere Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: LET'S HAVE A ZILLION BABIES
Hey there! Having fun?
#58760: Sep 23rd 2014 at 7:13:14 PM

I'm actually part of a Smashboards usergroup that's trying to advocate allowing some items that don't immediately turn the match around.

In an all-items match, though, there is no balance whatsoever if Villager's on the field. He can store a Fairy Bottle for later, use a Warp Star from any point on the stage, combo into a golden hammer...

edited 23rd Sep '14 7:14:33 PM by BaffleBlend

"It's liberating, realizing you never need to be competent." — Ultimatepheer
Lordvatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#58761: Sep 23rd 2014 at 7:13:41 PM

Though, when I do turn items off, I leave smash balls. I have grown far too accustomed to the flashiness of final smashes.

This song needs more love.
Vertigo_High Since: May, 2010
#58762: Sep 23rd 2014 at 7:14:09 PM

I actually prefer Smash with items than without.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#58763: Sep 23rd 2014 at 7:14:26 PM

[up][up]I can agree. I'm of the opinion that everybody should play with items on for the first few matches for pure fun factor, then if they want to try testing out raw skill disable them.

I like to play both, though I trend towards items on because I don't really have anyone to play with who is as experienced and familiar with the game as I am. With items off it becomes a wholesale slaughter, which isn't fun for either of us.

edited 23rd Sep '14 7:16:00 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Zarek Rollin' rollin' rollin' from Jakku Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Rollin' rollin' rollin'
#58764: Sep 23rd 2014 at 7:14:28 PM

I do really love the game-changing items, though. If only because 1) you usually have a chance to stop them being used, and 2) they're so much fun. Seriously, all the new items in 4 like the Gust Bellows and the S-Flag and the Beatle and that grabby-grabby spaceship are really satisfying to pull off, and also terrifying when your enemy gets hold of one.

"We're home, Chewie."
BaffleBlend Hey there! Having fun? from Somewhere Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: LET'S HAVE A ZILLION BABIES
Hey there! Having fun?
#58765: Sep 23rd 2014 at 7:15:25 PM

[up]I just feel cheated if a match is decided solely by an item, whether I won or lost. The computer won, not me.

edited 23rd Sep '14 7:16:08 PM by BaffleBlend

"It's liberating, realizing you never need to be competent." — Ultimatepheer
Vertigo_High Since: May, 2010
#58766: Sep 23rd 2014 at 7:15:55 PM

I always found paper fan slap spam to be absolutely hilarious especially if the person getting hit just can't get out of it for whatever reason.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#58767: Sep 23rd 2014 at 7:17:39 PM

I'm kinda glad the Fan is gone, though a good ol' nerf would have been accepable too. Perhaps make its swinging speed slow down if used for too long, or "break" like other limited-use items.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#58768: Sep 23rd 2014 at 7:17:57 PM

I vary from time to time. For tourneys, I usually go for no Items. Even the ones I run myself. The courses are selected to try and avoid extreme turnabouts due to those alone, instead of the player using the course to their advantage a bit. Chain Grabs/Walk Offs aside.

But for fun, many things go. I sometimes put on all explosives, Poke Balls, whatever works.

Shadow?
Zarek Rollin' rollin' rollin' from Jakku Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Rollin' rollin' rollin'
#58769: Sep 23rd 2014 at 7:19:15 PM

[up][up][up][up]The computer should've knocked the thing out of your hands. Serves them right, anyway, with their inhuman reaction speed and their incessant blocking and grumble grumble grumble...

edited 23rd Sep '14 7:19:28 PM by Zarek

"We're home, Chewie."
FullMoon feeling blue from Surface Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
feeling blue
#58770: Sep 23rd 2014 at 7:26:10 PM

A good portion of the stronger weapons are pretty easy to dodge too. The charged Super Scope you can see coming from a mile away, the beetle is slow, Smart Bombs have limited range before they explode, etc. So if you get hit by them it's likely your own fault.

Enderspy (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: In bed with a green-skinned space babe
#58771: Sep 23rd 2014 at 7:36:14 PM

Looking at the items list, most of them don't seem banworthy save for smash ball, dragoon, daybreak, and s-flag, and even then all of those have inherent weaknesses.

Nap1100 Since: Mar, 2012
#58772: Sep 23rd 2014 at 7:41:01 PM

I would like to counter all this talk of allowing items in tournaments by saying that the Brawl tournament in EVO 2008 did use items. It was a trainwreck. What may seem fine in theory can be disastrous in practice.

edited 23rd Sep '14 7:41:48 PM by Nap1100

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#58773: Sep 23rd 2014 at 7:42:44 PM

I do not think items have a place in a formal tournament. They're FUN, but tournaments are less about random fun and more about treating it as a sport.

I mean, if people want to run an item tournament that's totally fine, but I think an itemless tournament is a much better competitive environment if you want raw skill vs. raw skill.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#58774: Sep 23rd 2014 at 7:45:11 PM

In the end, it takes testing. One tourney isn't good enough to work with. Lots of matches with various items should help.

Shadow?
Blueblur21 Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#58775: Sep 23rd 2014 at 8:02:15 PM

When I unlock Lucina I'm going to be sure to master that damn Dancing Blade...


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