@Tarsen: Yes. The Fox images are exact, and the Stage images were taken at a different angle, but there's no actual real differences beyond that.
I can understand the dislike of the roster, but it's been stated multiple times at least for Dr. Mario that he was a clone because he was too different from Mario to be an alt. It was never going to happen overall.(maybe at one time planned that way, but the mind got changed, similar to Lucina)
I do find some of the placements weird, but that could mean not everyone is unlocked, or if there is DLC, the roster will change it up. Remember how weird Melee's roster looked before unlocking everyone? Same idea.
Technical difficulties are a pretty good reason, so... and I would prefer them to stay, but I won't pretend this is impossible. I honestly think if they were finished, Sakurai would've let us know by now. Less than a month and nothing on them? As for Snake, he's on the DLC rumored leak, at least. I can see him being cut for being a 3rd Party, at least.
Notably, no other franchise would be cut, and the reasons for each are logical enough. 3rd Parties require money and time to get it just right for the owners. Ice Climbers had enough technical difficulties.
edited 20th Aug '14 2:27:24 PM by Irene
Shadow?Challenger Approaching's take.
Oh, and as mentioned inside, Shulk basically has the same face as Little Mac.
edited 20th Aug '14 2:25:26 PM by Grounder
It's mostly fear and cynicism that's got me riled up.
I'm a firm believer in Finagle's Law.
"It's liberating, realizing you never need to be competent." — UltimatepheerI like the newcomers thus far, even if the only ones I wanted were Palutena and Robin. But Shulk, Duck Hunt, and Dark Pit? Shulk is perfectly fine. DH I'm okay with in principle, but it's not something I'd be thrilled over. And Dark Pit is really meh.
For cuts, I'm starting to write Lucas off. It's starting to look like we won't have a Mother starter, and I doubt both Ness and Lucas would be unlockable. Even with technical issues, lack of Ice Climbers would be horrible, and Wolf is no small loss.
Actually, the Gematsu leak never said Shulk would be in that day. A lot misunderstood that. He only said "Enjoy my good friend Shulk" implying it'd be that day.
I actually would expect the Polar Bear image to come up(one that was put up by accident and never showed up again) noting that he could not fix the Ice Climbers. If he doesn't mention their cut, then DLC is probably their case.
Oh, the losses suck. No disagreements here. Doesn't stop it from being real. Let's be fair, Falco is severely more popular than Wolf. Lucas is from a series that has zero updates. And he did outright say cuts have a fair chance of happening. I can't find anything unbelievable with a single one of those cuts, honestly. It all makes sense with his statements, after all. Again, I don't like the cuts either, but I can accept them regardless.
edited 20th Aug '14 2:38:07 PM by Irene
Shadow?TBH, as much as I am keeping away from this leak, the biggest thing in its support for me is the Duck Hunt Dog. For the life of me I can't figure out where those models would be coming from otherwise.
edited 20th Aug '14 2:47:14 PM by Watchtower
I'd just say wait and see. The Japanese release of Smash 4 3DS is only 4 weeks away, and the legitimacy of all of these leaks would be proved or disproved then.
That said, the Shulk/Little Mac post and the fact that ESRB don't play the games they rate more or less busts this leak (for me at least)...
Vote. .#Bayonetta 4 SmashYeah, they have some pretty good points that a lot of people have overlooked.
The fact that it's being leaked now while the game is still having some finishing touches put on it is somewhat dubious as well.
I'm pretty sure the ESRB only gets the game when it's fully finished as well.
edited 20th Aug '14 2:46:52 PM by strawberryflavored
This is evidently a fanmade render of Proto Man.
◊ It's difficult but I could believe someone faking a render.
edit: Here's another. This time it's Klonoa.
◊
edited 20th Aug '14 2:49:34 PM by Kostya
There's only two possible issues with Ice Climbers; Nana's A.I. won't cooperate well enough, so they gave up for now and finished the rest of the game.(her A.I. is a full computer, where Pikmin and Luma never were. They're very weak computers that do a move, then go back to you. Luma is a little different in that it can stay in a different spot, but if I remember correctly, it never attacks without your input commands. Can somebody confirm that?)
The other is a model issue. The Assist Trophies and Poke Ball Pokemon all were given lower resolution models due to too much onscreen. In order for Nana to work under that scenario, she'd need a low resolution model. That would make her look awful. Which means that in that case, they might not be back till the next installment at best.
Both are plausible. If it's the first one, them being DLC later(if DLC is in) is easy. If the second one, they would never work outside of Sakurai deciding to let Nana look fairly bad, which I think he might do so. Either way, them being DLC is reasonable at this point.
Shadow?There is also the fact that Ice Climbers could very well be on Wii U fully when it launches and added on 3DS as free DLC.
edited 20th Aug '14 2:53:30 PM by nigelstack345
Vote. .#Bayonetta 4 Smash![]()
None of that makes any sense.
1. They got it right in two games and now her AI isn't cooperating? I don't buy that.
2. Why? Luma and Olimar don't so having characters with more than one model on screen at once isn't out of the question. Heck, this leak gives us another character like that with Duck Hunt. If anything he would have cut one of the newcomers and kept Ice Climbers.
edited 20th Aug '14 2:55:05 PM by Kostya
I think I've experienced Nana actually attacking enemies on her own if she ends up alone next to one. The fact that she's a fighter AI (who unlike the other AI's can't have her skill modified) makes her a bit wonky from a balance perspective. If you suck she's too good and if you're a pro she's too bad. I can see this being a problem with Smash 4 focusing more on balance than the previous games.
edited 20th Aug '14 2:58:34 PM by Druplesnubb
Smaller models don't take up much space or lag the system as much. Nana's model is bigger than either of them as is. I don't see how it makes zero sense.
3DS is not the same as the Game Cube or Wii. It can have easily more technical difficulties. And yes, the models have been given worse quality as we've seen.
I recently read that he could be trying to remove the de-synching from them. Nana can't be naturally de-synched with a command unlike Luma and Pikmin can. Third possibility, and possibly the real reason.
Either way, you need to stop acting like them being cut is impossible. Sakurai outright said he had difficulty with them. We have yet to see him say they were fixed. Characters who aren't identical to them(do you see any two characters with the same size, same style of programming, or essentially the same design? Nope. Just some slightly similar characters) became fairly bad comparisons when they are not programmed identically either.
Although I doubt it's for balance purposes, you are fully correct that she's a unique A.I. Unlike Pikmin or Luma she can act on her own entirely. That can definitely be an issue for the 3DS version. Wii U version, not so much. We know there's technical issues, as previously said. We can't say they were fixed by using characters that have enough differences as comparisons, as they aren't identical enough to prove it.
I don't like them cut either. We know this. But them being cut is a very real possibility. Even if temporary. If they weren't ever an issue, Sakurai would not have said anything.
edited 20th Aug '14 3:04:27 PM by Irene
Shadow?Man, anyone else afraid of the Mimicuties?
If they're anywhere near as dangerous as they were in Kid Icarus Uprising, I'm gonna be in some serious trouble when I play Smash Run.
I mean, at least in KIU, I eventually learned where they were in each stage, so as to stay the hell away.
I have a message from another time...

It seems so odd that the Ice Climbers are cut. It doesn't seem like they would cut a franchise out of the game like that, adding or removing characters, sure, I can accept that. That's the main thing that keeps me from believing that leak.
But if it's real... Well, I have Greninja. But man do the layout for the character and stage select look bland and just messy.