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Konkfan7 Konknitive Dissonance from Roselle Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Konknitive Dissonance
#53426: Aug 16th 2014 at 2:48:07 PM

I cannot take credit for this little dialogue here. It was a picture I saw once.

Sakurai: The gliding mechanic has been cut.

Palutena: -trollface- Jump Gliiiide!

beorc Ridley and Ridley from hither and yon Since: Sep, 2009 Relationship Status: I know
Ridley and Ridley
#53427: Aug 16th 2014 at 2:53:28 PM

As I've thought about it, I've realized that like 40% of the reason I want Isaac in so badly is so we can get some orchestrations of Golden Sun music.

I mean, I think he has great gameplay potential too and I'd probably try to main him however he ended up, but seriously. There's so much awesome music there that's held back by the GBA and DS's sound capabilities. And if GS doesn't have any playable characters or stages representing it, I think we'll be lucky if it even gets one song remade...

edited 16th Aug '14 2:54:19 PM by beorc

Welcome to th:|
Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#53428: Aug 16th 2014 at 3:09:32 PM

Apollo Ascent theme, perhaps?

I have a message from another time...
GhostofMuramasa Since: Aug, 2014
#53429: Aug 16th 2014 at 3:25:38 PM

Isaac! Completely forgot about him. Imagine his Psynergy vs. Mewtwo's powers? Better yet, Isaac vs. a Mewtwo and Marth team-up! Clashing swords one second, psychic powers the next! grin

beorc Ridley and Ridley from hither and yon Since: Sep, 2009 Relationship Status: I know
Ridley and Ridley
#53430: Aug 16th 2014 at 3:28:45 PM

[up][up]Yeah, that's a cool revamp. And beyond that, I could easily see a combination of Set Sail! Through the Karagol Sea and Venus Lighthouse, a medley of Dark Dawn's battle themes, a remix of Magma Rock, and of course the main theme is fantastic...

On a related note, I must say that Xenoblade has a fantastic soundtrack as well that would be great to see included, buuut I'm not as desperate for that since its music is already orchestrated and not really in need of any improvement.

edited 16th Aug '14 3:35:09 PM by beorc

Welcome to th:|
doctrainAUM White Hindu from New Jersey Since: Aug, 2010
White Hindu
#53431: Aug 16th 2014 at 4:05:24 PM

Some people use Meta Knight's dominance as an example of Sakurai giving special treatment to elements from his Kirby series. This is more than a bit odd, since the long history of fighting games shows it's more than possible to accidentally make broken characters. Even discounting Purposefully Overpowered characters, there are several fighters in other series who are just as OP as Meta Knight was.

I look forward to playing with MK. I'm sure that even if he was one of the worst characters, I'd still find him fun to play with. Much like Mewtwo in Melee.

"What's out there? What's waiting for me?"
Keybreak (Long Runner)
#53432: Aug 16th 2014 at 6:16:38 PM

I love Camelot's music. They had a great soundtrack for the first Mario Tennis.

I especially loved this song...when I played Golden Sun for the first time, the battle music instantly reminded me of it.

...I wouldn't say no to Isaac (two a's, people—and Sheik is e before i), and Golden Sun IS one of my favorite franchises...though they'd really have to make the best of his Psynergy and not rely too much on his hand weapon(s).

You gotta believe me when I scare you away, all that I wish for is that you would stay
beorc Ridley and Ridley from hither and yon Since: Sep, 2009 Relationship Status: I know
Ridley and Ridley
#53433: Aug 16th 2014 at 6:57:29 PM

...I wouldn't say no to Isaac (two a's, people—and Sheik is e before i), and Golden Sun IS one of my favorite franchises...though they'd really have to make the best of his Psynergy and not rely too much on his hand weapon(s).

Yeah, between the Growth, Quake, Gaia, Spire, Avalanche, Briar, and Ragnarok series of spells, plus the various utility Psynergy, there's plenty to draw from without having him rely on his weapon, so I'd hope they do that (although I also would like if they gave him an axe as his weapon, since we don't have any axe-wielders in Smash Bros...). But based on how creative the other newcomers' movesets have been, I'm fairly confident that he'd be handled in an interesting way.

...Also yeah, I admit it bugs me a little when people spell his name as Issac. >_>

Welcome to th:|
GreatT HOT DOG Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
HOT DOG
#53434: Aug 16th 2014 at 9:38:41 PM

After looking at the entry Too Fast to Stop, I thought back to a Brawl match I had with my friends, and something that happened.

On the Temple stage, I had transformed into Wario-Man, see? And despite all common sense suggesting otherwise, I hopped on my bike and drove onward. The stairs acted as a ramp, and I sailed through the air hitting one of my friends for a surefire KO. The reactions all around were hilarious.

When you wish upon a side of beef, soon will come an end to all your grief
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#53435: Aug 16th 2014 at 9:40:38 PM

Sounds like a CMoA for you.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#53436: Aug 16th 2014 at 9:49:35 PM

Wario-Man bike kills are always hilarious and awesome. Especially if you're taunting during it, though that tends to turn it into a suicide as well.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#53437: Aug 16th 2014 at 9:51:50 PM

[up][up]That type of thing can happen a lot.

The only time using Wario Bike + Wario Man is ever a good idea is when there's a decent sized wall ahead...or on Big Blue.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Null ... from ... Since: Apr, 2009
...
#53438: Aug 16th 2014 at 10:50:06 PM

[up][up][up][up][up] This essentially sums up what I'd like to see Isaac's moveset be like in Smash. The heavy focus on djinn and summons help him stand out from other melee and magic characters, and unleash, utility and battle psynergy moves are all incorporated in some fashion.

...
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#53439: Aug 16th 2014 at 11:42:16 PM

Ooh, are we gushing about the Camelot's games music?

edited 16th Aug '14 11:43:36 PM by KnownUnknown

Fawriel Since: Jan, 2001
#53440: Aug 17th 2014 at 4:33:37 AM

Some people use Meta Knight's dominance as an example of Sakurai giving special treatment to elements from his Kirby series. This is more than a bit odd, since the long history of fighting games shows it's more than possible to accidentally make broken characters. Even discounting Purposefully Overpowered characters, there are several fighters in other series who are just as OP as Meta Knight was.
I agree that it would be a ridiculous assumption to make it Metaknight was the only example. Fast characters in particular are easy to make accidentally broken. But he's not the only example. The games are full of evidence of how few people were involved in the design and balancing process, due to how obviously some characters were balanced with the idea in mind to make them powerful, while other characters were designed with care taken to not make them overly strong.

First of all, Metaknight is an obvious example not only due to being from the creator's own series, next to other characters who are also very powerful. Of course, Kirby was weak in Melee (allegedly due to Sakurai overcompensating for Smash 64), Dedede's strength is mostly due to a probably unintended chaingrab, so that alone is not evidence enough. The fact that Metaknight is the only character to have a custom victory fanfare implemented for does raise some suspicions.

But moving away from Kirby, there's Snake, the creator's friend's character. Snake is about projectiles, he's supposed to be played with care to represent the stealth aspect of his games. So how did his tilts happen? They are extremely fast and extremely powerful, and the inexplicable part is that they have extremely giant hitboxes extending way past his actual limbs. Someone must've looked at him and thought, you know, he has all this stuff, but I think it's not enough yet.

Meanwhile look at the consistently terrible Zelda characters. Ganondorf has less power and much less survivability and none of the projectiles that Snake has and yet also has less speed and less range. Link's arrows need to be charged and are not powerful at all. Compare this to Pit, whose arrows fly straight for forever without needing to be charged, can be held indefinitely, aimed upward, directed after they were shot... Link didn't need to charge his arrows in his original game. Pit could only fire normal shots forward in his. All of these decisions were entirely arbitrary.

Speaking of Pit, let's look at Samus, the most obvious example. Samus' uncharged Charge Shot is extremely slow to fire, moves extremely slowly, dissipates after a short range and does next to nothing. Compare this, again, to Pit's arrows. They were pretty much the same in their original games. Now Samus was okay in Melee. In Brawl, they took away her ability to bomb jump. At the cost of making her bombs essentially useless. In the game that introduced characters who can FLY FREELY. Consider that, for a moment. Consider that she also had her Neutral Aerial taken from her, which now has exactly zero KO power. (Let me also point to Yoshi, who got a slightly less terrible recovery and had to pay for it with TWO of his few KO options that now do jack shit.)

There was absolutely no reason to do this. It was one of her few reliable moves with a bit of knockback. Consider then that she is left with exactly no reliable KO moves (fuck her Forward-Smash) besides a Charge Shot that has to be charged, still moves slowly and has very little priority even in its charged state (which was intentionally programmed in that way), and consider that her Zero-Suit form that is supposed to be weaker has a plethora of far, far more powerful and reliable KO moves, such as her back-aerial kick, as opposed to Samus' back-aerial kick that, for arbitrary reasons, requires a sweetspot despite not being particularly powerful in the first place and harder to land anyway due to how floaty Samus is...

Characters can fly now but Samus was not allowed to, her exciting new form was supposed to be weak but got KO-moves while her suited form got hers taken away. Compare her to ROB, the other heavy metal fighter, who has an infinite-range aimed projectile and a chargeable one that can be thrown around as you see fit while also having fast and powerful moves in melee range, and who can fly.

It's arbitrary. It's all so full of arbitrary bullshit.

edited 17th Aug '14 4:37:57 AM by Fawriel

BaffleBlend Hey there! Having fun? from Somewhere Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: LET'S HAVE A ZILLION BABIES
Hey there! Having fun?
#53441: Aug 17th 2014 at 5:11:02 AM

But moving away from Kirby, there's Snake, the creator's friend's character. Snake is about projectiles, he's supposed to be played with care to represent the stealth aspect of his games. So how did his tilts happen? They are extremely fast and extremely powerful, and the inexplicable part is that they have extremely giant hitboxes extending way past his actual limbs. Someone must've looked at him and thought, you know, he has all this stuff, but I think it's not enough yet.

What I heard actually happened with that is, they resized the character model at some point, but they forgot to resize the hitboxes with it.

And considering Ganondorf is Sakurai's Brawl main, I have a feeling he balances characters based on what looks effective rather than what is. Which is really weird considering he actually won a Street Fighter II championship before he worked on 64.

edited 17th Aug '14 5:16:25 AM by BaffleBlend

"It's liberating, realizing you never need to be competent." — Ultimatepheer
Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#53442: Aug 17th 2014 at 7:37:49 AM

Well hopefully we've got a better range now that he has what i imagine to be the entire Tekken team running balance work for him.

Sterok Since: Apr, 2012
#53443: Aug 17th 2014 at 8:41:23 AM

Didn't Marth have a longer grab range than Yoshi? Or was that in Melee?

Nap1100 Since: Mar, 2012
#53444: Aug 17th 2014 at 8:52:38 AM

That was in Melee. Marth's grab was a little bit ridiculous there.

Fawriel Since: Jan, 2001
#53445: Aug 17th 2014 at 9:08:26 AM

Yoshi's grab is the biggest bullshit. Why do they insist on making it a weakness?

BaffleBlend Hey there! Having fun? from Somewhere Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: LET'S HAVE A ZILLION BABIES
Hey there! Having fun?
#53446: Aug 17th 2014 at 9:18:55 AM

Me and my fellow Yoshi mains are all hoping they fix it this time.

"It's liberating, realizing you never need to be competent." — Ultimatepheer
Fawriel Since: Jan, 2001
Tarsen Since: Dec, 2009
#53448: Aug 17th 2014 at 9:26:13 AM

im hoping they fix everything this time.

not cuz i had any problems but really just cuz i figure you might as well aim for the stars.

GhostofMuramasa Since: Aug, 2014
#53449: Aug 17th 2014 at 10:57:18 AM

I think at times Melee, for all it's fun gameplay, could be a little too fast, to the point where it can be a challenge to land a single hit. I'm kind of glad they're going for a balance this time around.

NEO from Qrrbrbirlbel Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
#53450: Aug 17th 2014 at 11:38:59 AM

So, am I the only one hoping for an Advance Wars stage?

No regret shall pass over the threshold!

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