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Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#41326: Apr 12th 2014 at 8:13:45 PM

Making them rocket boots actually does matter. She seems to fight perfectly fine with those. I don't like the idea, of course, but to say she can't fight and maneuver? Gameplay disagrees.

For the record, in the first Zelda game, you can fully beat the game without using a sword outside of beating Ganon. Olimar can fight in his own games, and you can especially fight without using any Pikmin in Brawl. Not optimal, but a fighting style none the less. They're notable things for each character. Samus fighting in her Zero Suit is not "unnatural" either. Her agility and strength do have to do with the Chozo blood flowing in her. Her upgrading her gun isn't hard to believe for Brawl/4 either. As Smash isn't canon, she can bring whatever she wants and more. It's also why she can have rocket heels.

Shadow?
MJTrooper Since: Apr, 2011
#41327: Apr 12th 2014 at 8:18:50 PM

I've updated the Hotter and Sexier entry for Zero Suit Samus on the character page. It now says:

  • Hotter and Sexier:
    • Zig-Zagged in the fourth game. While Samus seems to have a larger bust than she did in Brawl, the dark blue parts added to her Zero Suit give it a more segmented look, making it look less like Sensual Spandex.
    • Inverted in their official artworks. While Brawl had Zero Suit Samus in a seductive Boobs-and-Butt Pose, the fourth game has her in a more dynamic pose that downplays her features.

As for the heels, there's an entry on the YMMV page for Super Smash Bros. under Broken Base that says, "While Smash's change into jet heels has been well-received by some, others think the heels should've been removed entirely in favor of a more practical design, like jet boots. Both sides at least agree it's a step up from Other M's plain high heels."

Arguments against the heels include being hard to move in; being inappropriate for someone in Samus's profession; not being in-character for Samus, who is largely open for interpretation outside of the extremely controversial Metroid: Other M; being a carryover from Samus's Other M design; and clashing with her appearance. Arguments in favor of the heels include being an improvement over plain high heels; being jet heels; the fact that heels inflict a lot of pain when you step on someone's foot; and having a cool design.

Overall, I like the jet heels. While I think jet boots would've been more practical, it's neat that Sakurai found a creative use for them, and I think they have a great design.

edited 12th Apr '14 8:22:58 PM by MJTrooper

IndirectActiveTransport plays capoeira from Chicago (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
plays capoeira
#41328: Apr 12th 2014 at 8:22:22 PM

Power levels as an excuse doesn't cut it either, and probably never will. Otherwise Kirby would probably be a total game breaker even if scaled to proper size (maybe even more so since you can't hit him) since his copied ability attacks are measured in megatons. Mewtwo should have wreaked everything, since monsters with less attack power are said to be able to destroy cities in his home series.

The argument is just about being consistent. The mega mushroom and metal box are generally advantageous to the poison mushroom, Olimar is weaker without Pikmin, the crabs take more hits to knock over than the turtles. If Samus were something other than an attractive lady, being without the powersuit would probably be portrayed as bad for combat, as it is in Metroid.

Buldogue's lawyer
Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#41329: Apr 12th 2014 at 8:30:57 PM

Smash isn't consistent with the games each character comes from and never will be. It has taken more than the games into account as well, since it's more about the characters and the franchises they come from than just "game canon". Sakurai can take from whatever media bit he wants and throw it in if it makes for an interesting moveset, a great trophy design, music, courses, whatever. It's a good thing too, since most of the franchises in Smash just happen to have media outside of games, that are quite popular as is. To varying degrees of popularity, of course. Mangas, Animes, Cartoons, Comics, Toys, anything else I forgot...

And if it was, the balance would be beyond bad, far worse than Brawl's horrid balance. They have to ignore power levels, and whether or not somebody did fight. Some moves have to be made up. This is seriously normal for crossover fighters, especially if they star characters who were peaceful/didn't fight often before. It's not that odd or bad either. I'm quite happy with the lineup since they're all very interesting to me, regardless of canon.

edited 12th Apr '14 8:34:34 PM by Irene

Shadow?
CassidyTheDevil Since: Jan, 2013
#41330: Apr 12th 2014 at 8:35:44 PM

While Samus seems to have a larger bust than she did in Brawl, the dark blue parts added to her Zero Suit give it a more segmented look, making it look less like Sensual Spandex.

I still think there's barely any difference with the suit besides the heels, and it makes zero difference in terms of the fanservicey design. But I guess this wiki is mostly just opinion, so whatever.

edited 12th Apr '14 8:38:19 PM by CassidyTheDevil

Randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#41331: Apr 12th 2014 at 8:44:22 PM

Slighty noticeable amount chest muscle that support the breast...they're not really bigger.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#41332: Apr 12th 2014 at 8:58:43 PM

Smash Bros has to do some necessary evening out, though. Bowser was often functionally invulnerable, while Mario dies in two hits in most cases. Perfectly normal folks like Villager show up, while everyone goes up against Samus herself. Like most crossovers, it isn't meant to make sense in that regard.

Hashil Since: Aug, 2010
#41333: Apr 12th 2014 at 9:01:09 PM

But again - why have Zero Suit Samus at all? What's the point in the character when they are plenty of speedy, lithe females in Nintendo's line up of characters?

That's why I don't like her - they took a character known - in all of her games with no variance whatsoever - for using her super powered suit to do all her fighting, than literally stripped her down because hey she's a lady and we can't have a lady without tits flopping every where. Or a pretty princess dress.

edited 12th Apr '14 9:02:12 PM by Hashil

CassidyTheDevil Since: Jan, 2013
#41334: Apr 12th 2014 at 9:10:18 PM

Hmm...Was Jill Dozer deconfirmed as a playable character last Direct? They showed off a bunch of Assist Trophies, don't remember.

TechPowah Just a simple hero from the room down the hall Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
Just a simple hero
#41335: Apr 12th 2014 at 9:10:58 PM

I don't think so.

The New Age of Awesome is here! Not even the sky is the limit!
nigelstack345 Let's dance, boys! from Subspace Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Let's dance, boys!
#41336: Apr 12th 2014 at 9:29:40 PM

Here's my ultimate opinion on Zero Suit Samus. As she is one of my mains, she brings something interesting as a playable character that I don't think any other fighter would bring otherwise. Any issue that others might find with her is of their own personal opinion, but for me, I could not give a shit even if I tried because at the end of the day, Samus is Samus, Power Suit or Zero Suit. The Zero Suit does not impede in her status as a fun character to play as and to say that it does honestly is kind of offensive IMO.

Vote. .#Bayonetta 4 Smash
Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#41337: Apr 12th 2014 at 9:29:47 PM

I'm not saying this to justify the look of the Zero Suit, but in her own games, Samus fights threats that require her power armor's blaster to damage. You never see her kick anything, or even cannonwhip her enemies, as such tactics wouldn't work. Smash puts her into a situation where physical strikes, in either armor configuration, actually work.

In which case, she'd be better off shooting anyway, but...

edited 12th Apr '14 9:31:01 PM by Enlong

I have a message from another time...
TechPowah Just a simple hero from the room down the hall Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
Just a simple hero
#41338: Apr 12th 2014 at 10:54:19 PM

For the record, here are all the Assist Trophies that haven't been seen as ATs yet:

  • Barbara
  • Excitebikes
  • Gray Fox (Inherent, since Snake is still unconfirmed)
  • Hammer Bro (Seen during Smash Run, however)
  • Helirin
  • Infantry and Tanks (The Advance Wars units)
  • Isaac
  • Jill
  • Jeff
  • Kat & Ana
  • Lakitu (Seen during Smash Run, however)
  • Little Mac tongue
  • Mr. Resetti
  • Ray MK III
  • Shadow
  • Tingle

edited 12th Apr '14 11:41:22 PM by TechPowah

The New Age of Awesome is here! Not even the sky is the limit!
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#41339: Apr 12th 2014 at 11:12:47 PM

Infantry and Tanks are getting promoted to playable.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#41340: Apr 12th 2014 at 11:13:57 PM

Starfy getting demoted to Sandbag.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#41341: Apr 12th 2014 at 11:31:28 PM

You mean it wasn't already?

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Pulse The Fool from Yadayadaville Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Fool
#41342: Apr 12th 2014 at 11:33:44 PM

We've very clearly seen Starfy, though!

Sakurai made a post about "yellow characters" featuring him, Pikachu and Luma.

I sure said that!
Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#41343: Apr 12th 2014 at 11:39:56 PM

That would be funny if he was the new Sandbag. tongue

I know he was in the direct, but I can't remember if he did anything beyond movement/appear in general. I don't think anybody was shown summoning him. -shrugs-

Shadow?
TechPowah Just a simple hero from the room down the hall Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
Just a simple hero
#41344: Apr 12th 2014 at 11:41:08 PM

^^ Whoops, your right,forgot to take Starfy out of the list. Editing now.

The New Age of Awesome is here! Not even the sky is the limit!
Nettacki Since: Jan, 2010
#41345: Apr 13th 2014 at 12:57:13 AM

You know, I'm still trying to figure out the idea behind the new Smash coming to 3DS first before the Wii U. I mean, doesn't the Wii U need it more than 3DS, and isn't the 3DS more than well off by itself?

SpookyMask Since: Jan, 2011
#41346: Apr 13th 2014 at 1:01:52 AM

A lot of people unfairly consider handheld versions to be "not real" version of the games tongue

Pulse The Fool from Yadayadaville Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Fool
#41347: Apr 13th 2014 at 1:03:15 AM

It means the game isn't competing with itself, and that the Wii U version gets the extra dev time it needs. It also means that Nintendo will be having a Smash come out in both Summer and near Christmas, the two big deal seasons for video games.

I sure said that!
LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#41348: Apr 13th 2014 at 2:03:05 AM

Didn't Sakurai only want to make a 3DS Smash Bros. first before the executives told him to make a Wii U version also?

CassidyTheDevil Since: Jan, 2013
#41349: Apr 13th 2014 at 2:09:19 AM

No, they asked him which console he'd like to develop for. He chose both.

TechPowah Just a simple hero from the room down the hall Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
Just a simple hero
#41350: Apr 13th 2014 at 3:35:49 AM

One of the best reasons to use a Mathematician's Answer.

edited 13th Apr '14 3:37:19 AM by TechPowah

The New Age of Awesome is here! Not even the sky is the limit!

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