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Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#40901: Apr 10th 2014 at 1:02:03 PM

Still a theory and nothing more.

Could happen, but I refuse to believe it's some guarantee whatsoever. Nobody can predict the future perfectly anyway. Statistics don't predict the future either. They make for neat theories, though.

Shadow?
beorc Ridley and Ridley from hither and yon Since: Sep, 2009 Relationship Status: I know
Ridley and Ridley
#40902: Apr 10th 2014 at 1:04:36 PM

Surely you can't deny that his theory has far more evidence to substantiate it compared to yours, however.

@Halberdier 17: Eh, but there are millions of people who own a 3DS and don't own a Wii U, and I think the majority of them would rather buy a version for a system they do have, than spend hundreds of dollars on a new system just to get an improved version.

edited 10th Apr '14 1:06:52 PM by beorc

Welcome to th:|
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#40903: Apr 10th 2014 at 1:07:09 PM

Yeah, like I've got a 3DS but won't be able to afford a Wii U for a long time. If I get Smash it'll be on 3DS

Oh really when?
Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#40904: Apr 10th 2014 at 1:12:13 PM

And why should that evidence matter to me?

Because it doesn't.

It's a respectable theory. I do not consider it a guarantee, however. Which is my point, anyway. It's still an opinion with completely understandable reasons. I believe Smash is far more important than Mario Kart and that's enough for me. It's a severely major Nintendo series and is doing way more now than ever. After both Diddy Kong Racing and Sonic All-Stars Racing Powered Up happened, the whole "vehicle change" barely phases me or interests me whatsoever. Doesn't feel new. Just feels more like copying that idea cause it works. But removing transformations, a major gimmick? And one that annoyed many? That's a huge boost to Smash and the viability of characters. Never mind the exclusive differences as is. Then there's the HD, far better online, again new characters, an excellent veteran set(let's be honest, the only notable thing about 8's roster is the Koopalings for new guys. The returners with Waluigi is still nice though, but Baby Daisy is not).

Just not seeing MK 8 as strong as Smash 4 at all.

Shadow?
Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#40905: Apr 10th 2014 at 1:14:16 PM

You...

Go on doing that then, Irene.

I have a message from another time...
beorc Ridley and Ridley from hither and yon Since: Sep, 2009 Relationship Status: I know
Ridley and Ridley
#40906: Apr 10th 2014 at 1:14:23 PM

[up][up]Yes, in your personal opinion the new Smash Bros is more interesting than Mario Kart. That's perfectly fine, but it means nothing in terms of how well they'll sell.

edited 10th Apr '14 1:14:53 PM by beorc

Welcome to th:|
Pulse The Fool from Yadayadaville Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Fool
#40907: Apr 10th 2014 at 1:14:54 PM

I'm slightly mad at MK8 for aping F-Zero track design principles.

... Here's hoping it's a toe in the water of releasing F-Zero UX.

edited 10th Apr '14 1:15:09 PM by Pulse

I sure said that!
Hashil Since: Aug, 2010
#40908: Apr 10th 2014 at 1:15:37 PM

Unless something's being truly revolutionized or re-evaluated in comparison to its predecessors (in the video game sphere, compare the Shin Megami Tensei main series's success to the explosive popularity of the latter Persona titles), there's very little reason to believe that a new title in a series will perform any better than the old, barring the padding of a new, more successful install base (which the Wii U very much isn't). And nothing is being revolutionized here - most of its sales won't come from people flocking to Smash 4 because it's any more balanced or it has oh so many new characters - frankly, it's customer base has probably already been decided even if the game has months yet to release.

Keybreak (Long Runner)
#40909: Apr 10th 2014 at 1:16:33 PM

Mario Kart seems a lot more casual than Super Smash Bros. Racing games in general, really. You can race with one character on one kart on one track and get the gist of the game.

Super Smash Bros has way more characters with a lot more variety on way more varied stages that you can't really get the whole thing in one match.

And other fighting games with simple the one-on-one, health-bars-over-their-heads, scoop-around-the-control-stick-to-make-combos gimmick are plenty. Super Smash Bros is unique.

You gotta believe me when I scare you away, all that I wish for is that you would stay
Halberdier17 We Are With You Zack Snyder from Western Pennsylvania Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Dating Catwoman
We Are With You Zack Snyder
#40910: Apr 10th 2014 at 1:21:47 PM

@Halberdier 17: Eh, but there are millions of people who own a 3DS and don't own a Wii U, and I think the majority of them would rather buy a version for a system they do have, than spend hundreds of dollars on a new system just to get an improved version.
I'm just going by what other websites said about the way the Release dates are staggered it is better for both systems since they wouldn't be in competition with each other because they aren't releasing at the same time.

Many sites were also saying if the release dates were in reverse it could hurt sales of the 3DS version because the Wii U version is going to look better technically.

I'm sure that there are people that will purchase just the 3DS version over the Wii U since they don't want to purchase one.

I didn't really mention because to me it makes sense but I was talking about people that own both a Wii U and 3DS now they don't have to choose between 3DS and Wii U version at launch.

Batman Ninja more like Batman's Bizarre Adventure
Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#40911: Apr 10th 2014 at 1:25:09 PM

Smash 4's a pretty huge revolution compared to its earlier titles. So yes, it's pretty big. And it's not really curbing off of other games like Mario Kart 8 is right now either.

I'm not saying I can't be wrong, because that'd be dumb. It's an opinion, of course. But either of us could be, no matter how many predictions you make, you aren't guaranteed right and that has to be accepted.

Also, what Keybreak said. Every Smash entry highly changed up its formula while not changing the core gameplay too much(MK can't say that much, however...). Mario Kart didn't much change among the various entries. Very small with a few exceptions. And not all went over well. 12 racers was not a good thing, as it made it too easy to lose against them due to a bombardment of items. The Blue Shell pretty much became broken after 64 with very little done to fix it. It finally gained a few extra vehicles beyond Karts. The double racers was somewhat unique, but the "set items" was just from Super Mario Kart's cpu's, just slightly changed to affect the players as well. I don't find it really had any severe changes overall. Biggest changes were some of the roster moves, but outside of Baby Daisy(and only to a small degree), they were fairly easy to see. Smash isn't nearly like that, as every roster has some surprise choices you wouldn't have easily expected.

Honestly, when it comes to innovation? I can't see how Mario Kart ever did it as well as Smash. One thing MK did was basically start off the Kart Racer genre, but that was it. Between installments? Not that much overall.

Shadow?
Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#40912: Apr 10th 2014 at 1:26:51 PM

So, if every Smash innovated greatly, and no Mario Karts did quite that, and the trend continues for the current iterations...

I have a message from another time...
beorc Ridley and Ridley from hither and yon Since: Sep, 2009 Relationship Status: I know
Ridley and Ridley
#40913: Apr 10th 2014 at 1:27:31 PM

[up][up][up]Well, it's true that it'll make it easier for people who own both systems...but with the 3DS having an install base exponentially larger than the Wii U's, I feel like the 3DS version would've done fairly well for itself, even with the Wii U version looking better overall.

[up][up]Yes, I know nothing is guaranteed. But that does not mean that every possibility has an equal chance of happening.

And I'm not saying that you're wrong for thinking Smash is better or more innovative than Mario Kart. I'm saying that what is "better" does not equate to what will be more successful.

edited 10th Apr '14 1:31:21 PM by beorc

Welcome to th:|
Sterok Since: Apr, 2012
#40914: Apr 10th 2014 at 1:33:17 PM

We can guess that Mario Kart will outsell Smash the same way we can guess Pokemon XY will outsell Kirby Triple Deluxe or that Call of Duty will outsell Medal of Honor. Yes technically that could happen, but one is a much bigger franchise than the other, is proven to garner much more sales, and has a larger loyal base. You can guess the opposite, but don't be surprised when no one takes you seriously.

Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#40915: Apr 10th 2014 at 1:39:25 PM

[up][up] Whether or not it's equal is irrelevant. Not all theories are equal, of course. No reason they should be.

[up][up][up] I'd appreciate it if you read my actual posts before you make a pointless comment on them. I said Mario Kart didn't innovate as much as Smash. Not that it didn't innovate at all. I even explained how they did. Of course they did, but I find Smash just did it better. Another major thing is that Smash, unlike Mario Kart, makes every character feel different beyond weight classes. The Karts slightly help this, but not much. They don't feel unique at all. Even the clones felt highly unique due to some largely different properties.

Another thing to say is this; If you're going to comment on what I say, please do it in purely good faith. I believe Bad Wolf's evidence is a pretty reasonable guess. Just not guaranteed. I never ever found sales to be a true indication of anything ever, so it's basically a moot point to bring up to me. Albeit, I get that Mario Kart has helped sell systems highly in the past. I'm not denying that, of course. I do deny it's a guarantee it'll sell the Wii U more than Smash 4. It may, that's all.

edited 10th Apr '14 1:40:00 PM by Irene

Shadow?
Hashil Since: Aug, 2010
#40916: Apr 10th 2014 at 1:39:44 PM

You getting into the nitty gritty that only hardcore fans really care about.

I'll go back to the Shin Megami Tensei example.

The original Megaten games were very bleak, gritty titles focused almost exclusively on dungeon crawling and a sprawling, worlds spanning politics that will ultimately determine the fate of man and demonkind. Demons are fused together and tossed away like second hand clothes and the focus on character development is all but nonexistant. Good games - great games even - but very niche. Each game offered tons of innovation and system changes from the last, but they were never a hit with any one but hard core fans.

Persona 4, on the other hand, was a mostly upbeat character driven romp starring high school kids and their wacky adventures, had several slice of life elements, and, while still difficult, was overall more forgiving and inviting than Shin Megami Tensei usually is. Also a good game, but a totally different beast from its father series, and a lot more successful than it was, as well.

Smash Bros, on the barest level, has largely been the same game since... let's say Melee. New characters, yeah. New stages? Yep. New modes? Absolutely. Polished to a sparkly sheen in the graphical, animation, and technical departments? You bet. But the core gameplay is exactly the same. I'd argue Mario Kart's done a lot more to change the system up over its different iterations, but I'm an outsider looking in in the latter's case, so I can't say for sure. The sales talk louder than any of our posts can, though, and that's what you need to pay attention to.

Unless there is a large, highly visible paradigm shift in design, you can't expect one game in a series to suddenly pull the series's sales up.

edited 10th Apr '14 1:45:29 PM by Hashil

Fawriel Since: Jan, 2001
#40917: Apr 10th 2014 at 1:44:37 PM

For the majority of all customers, Mario Kart is a series of party games that anyone can pick up and get pretty quickly, and Smash Bros is a series of party games that are less easy to pick up and get and have limited appeal if you don't happen to be a Nintendo fan already.

That said, I'd advise against getting too into this argument. I'd say more, but I don't want to get another post thumped, even though what I have to say is actually surprisingly positive.

edited 10th Apr '14 1:46:49 PM by Fawriel

Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#40918: Apr 10th 2014 at 1:45:19 PM

[up][up][up]

Okay. I'll not comment further on this. That was a mistake on my part.

edited 10th Apr '14 1:45:40 PM by Enlong

I have a message from another time...
Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#40919: Apr 10th 2014 at 1:50:36 PM

[up][up] Your thump was for "this guy should go to hell and die for not liking a character", actually. I hollered it myself. The rest was perfectly fine and understandable.

[up] I respect your opinions, of course. I just wish you'd avoid any snide commentary along with it. And I can understand how some would think Mario Kart was more innovative.

That's clearly YMMV, and I think we can respectfully leave it at that. We got our point across well enough, I think.

Shadow?
Fawriel Since: Jan, 2001
#40920: Apr 10th 2014 at 2:01:44 PM

I think you misunderstood, though, Irene. I never said anything about the guy who posted that. He was making a general statement about people not liking Mewtwo in Melee, and I made a general statement about those people.

ultimatepheer Since: Mar, 2011
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#40922: Apr 10th 2014 at 2:10:15 PM

Goomy should be in as a pokeball

Oh really when?
Fawriel Since: Jan, 2001
#40923: Apr 10th 2014 at 2:11:26 PM

Taking suggestions for something more useful Gardevoir can do in this game.

Also I really like Eevee.

It's like "hi, I'm Eevee."

"..."

"Tackle!"

"Oh, what a joy to be alive."

Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#40924: Apr 10th 2014 at 2:12:07 PM

@Fawriel: Some rules apply for that too. Generalizations with "burn in hell" aren't allowed either. Groups of persons or a specific one is ultimately irrelevant.

I get what you're saying, but it's best not to wish that on anyone, general or otherwise.

Meowth's a Poke Ball again. I wish he was one in Melee. D:

Shadow?
Hashil Since: Aug, 2010
#40925: Apr 10th 2014 at 2:13:47 PM

Yeah I don't get eevee. I don't think Eevee gets Eevee. Popularity, mang

edited 10th Apr '14 2:14:20 PM by Hashil


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