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Nap1100 Since: Mar, 2012
#38426: Mar 20th 2014 at 3:30:15 PM

Peach will sometimes get items, yes. I've seen a few beam swords in competitive play because of that.

brilliant pagetopper

edited 20th Mar '14 3:30:29 PM by Nap1100

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#38427: Mar 20th 2014 at 3:39:41 PM

Bear in mind that items are disabled because they spawn randomly. So attacks that generate items such as Diddy's peels are fine. Peach's down-B does have some randomness to it, but for the most part it's stable and doesn't really have the same kind of randomness.

edited 20th Mar '14 3:40:07 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Mukora Uniocular from a place Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Uniocular
#38428: Mar 20th 2014 at 3:55:15 PM

I've always thought banning items in competitive play is just silly. Yeah, it's random, but that's why it's fun.

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#38429: Mar 20th 2014 at 3:59:45 PM

I don't see what's silly about it. The randomness of items skews results. They're not playing for "random fun", they're playing to put skill against skill.

I'd also like to point out that most competitive players do also play casual matches in addition to competitive matches.

edited 20th Mar '14 4:02:27 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#38430: Mar 20th 2014 at 4:01:29 PM

Eh. If that's the way they want to play, then fine. Someone once told me that the golden rule of Smash Bros is to not tell someone that the way they want to play the game is wrong, and I think that's a good sentiment, as long as it applies all ways.

Personally, I play with items on low spawn rates, with containers, most explosives, and egrigiously powerful items like Fans, Ray Guns, and healing items greater than Food off.

I have a message from another time...
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#38431: Mar 20th 2014 at 4:03:28 PM

I usually play with items on medium, all on. But I also play items off.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
ultimatepheer Since: Mar, 2011
#38432: Mar 20th 2014 at 4:04:15 PM

I enjoy playing with all items on and on high.

Maximum randomness.

Tatsumar Since: Mar, 2011
#38433: Mar 20th 2014 at 4:04:57 PM

Although items are fun, they do end up skewing the odds.

Two people of equal skill are fighting on even terms. One hit could knock either out, and a Super Star spawns randomly over one player's head.

That's when the game can get a little unbalanced, especially if there's a physical prize of some sort on the line.

I do love items, but I do turn them off when I'm training.

edited 20th Mar '14 4:05:22 PM by Tatsumar

Deer
NesClassic Meh-meh!? from Flyover Country Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: In another castle
Meh-meh!?
#38434: Mar 20th 2014 at 4:09:25 PM

I tend to go no-items, but I will turn them mostly (that is, excluding those damn Bob-Ombs) on from time-to-time to make everything funner and chaotic-ier.

For the most part I turn items on for gag fights, such as Items-High-Bumpers-Only on Skyworld. >w<

🏳️‍⚧️she/her | Vio Rhyse Alberia
Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#38435: Mar 20th 2014 at 4:10:18 PM

Of course, specific items can be disabled. Then the question becomes whether any items are balanced enough to not be detrimental to the match.

I have a message from another time...
Tatsumar Since: Mar, 2011
#38436: Mar 20th 2014 at 4:11:34 PM

Man, I can't wait to use the old bumpers in excess again. =w=

Deer
ConstipatedWaffle For The Most Ridley-culous Cause from The Edge Of Insanity Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
For The Most Ridley-culous Cause
#38437: Mar 20th 2014 at 4:15:58 PM

I turn items on high, only explosive items and bumpers, and watch the chaos begin.

"And kung fu is a terrible way to run a company" - alliterator
ultimatepheer Since: Mar, 2011
#38438: Mar 20th 2014 at 4:19:10 PM

Maybe the smash ball?

But that's getting into final smashes, and those are horribly imbalanced. (Sonic, my man, I love you, but stop being cheap like that.)

Tatsumar Since: Mar, 2011
#38439: Mar 20th 2014 at 4:19:42 PM

Perhaps if the lower tier'd Final Smashes could be combo'd into....

Deer
Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#38440: Mar 20th 2014 at 4:20:40 PM

I've seen Item Tourneys myself too. They still turn off highly broken ones(in their opinion) regardless.

The only time I've seen a tourney with all items is the original Gamestop Brawl release. You could join the tourney before you could buy the game. All Items, Battlefield, Starters(and Sonic and Snake) only, if I remember correctly.

Shadow?
Tatsumar Since: Mar, 2011
#38441: Mar 20th 2014 at 4:21:20 PM

Battlefield is definitely a fun stage. I love seeing it on tourneys.

Deer
Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#38442: Mar 20th 2014 at 4:23:00 PM

Aye, i was in that tournament. Went down in the first round to a buddy of mine :/

The idea one could propose is that the truly excellent Smash player will be able to overcome even bad luck.

Tatsumar Since: Mar, 2011
#38443: Mar 20th 2014 at 4:26:01 PM

It was still the release party though.

Perhaps the skill levels were just greatly varied, so they sort of used the chaos of items to "balance" that tournament. The game was brand new then....

edited 20th Mar '14 4:26:50 PM by Tatsumar

Deer
Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#38444: Mar 20th 2014 at 4:28:16 PM

Yeah, some things like the Star go too far. A good chunk of the items are cool and fine, but a few just go too far. Smash Balls are usually turned off due to how broken some can get(Super Sonic, for instance), both Hammers are usually instant OTK's. Bat fares better sometimes, since it's iffy. Fan is random, but people know it's deadly enough. Bob-Ombs always are off since they lead to luck-based deaths. Motion-Sensor Bomb actually requires some skill to work with, although some may choose to throw all explosives off. Blast Bomb and Smart Bomb I tend to always see off, although the Gooey Bomb seems to be allowed since you can make it so only your opponent is affected by it. Poke Balls and Assist Trophies are random, due to their nature of summoning immense game changers sometimes. Projectile Items tend to be kept on. Healing Items vary, sometimes only Food and Team Healer being allowed. Dragoon and Warp Star do not fare well, the latter sometimes stays, but the former rarely does.

Melee is not much different from it, with Brawl differences aside. Flipper I don't think was minded, but Parasol got scrutiny for immensely improving recoveries, and the Cloaking Device was nearly as bad as the Star. Red Shell often was kept off compared to the Green Shell at best.

I think I covered everything. I never saw an item tourney in Smash 64, so...

Shadow?
Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#38445: Mar 20th 2014 at 4:28:17 PM

[up][up][up]Which can be argued against with the line of thinking that if one person has to be working extra hard to remove the imbalancing effect caused by the randomly-dropped item, then why even have that imbalancing effect there in the first place?

edited 20th Mar '14 4:28:31 PM by Enlong

I have a message from another time...
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#38446: Mar 20th 2014 at 4:47:36 PM

Truly good players can overcome bad luck, but if you have two truly good players than a bit of bad luck means one will lose unfairly.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
IndirectActiveTransport plays capoeira from Chicago (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
plays capoeira
#38447: Mar 20th 2014 at 4:53:46 PM

Medium items, all on. Tried the no item thing but it does not work for me. Smash Bros has a bit too few actions for my tastes without the arena like features.

So, are any of you lady men and shemales ready to brawl with me online yet?

Buldogue's lawyer
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#38448: Mar 20th 2014 at 5:04:58 PM

[up]I always play online...its the only way to play.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#38449: Mar 20th 2014 at 5:06:52 PM

Only if you go in on a "one match means all" mentality (which, granted, most tourney players do).

It's the same thing with Mario Kart. One match can't be the end of the world in that game, and the way Mario Kart Wii and 7 treated it, it wasn't. Lots of stuff factored in to how you "scored" by keeping a running tab of a versus ranking, and factoring in how high or low your opponent's versus ranking is. A loss to really good players wouldn't hurt you at all, while a win against scrubs would similarly count for little. One freak loss in a blue moon would soon be sponged away.

Smash For's online mode should really do much the same thing, acknowledge the impact of randomness and make the versus record more aggregate.

IndirectActiveTransport plays capoeira from Chicago (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
plays capoeira
#38450: Mar 20th 2014 at 5:08:30 PM

[up][up]Okay, when? As long as its not tomorrow morning I have time for the foreseeable future.

[up]I just do two minute Brawls. If I couldn't beat you in 6-10 minutes you were just better (or I was having a bad day)...or you doing something especially cheesy like De-syncing the ice climbers or Suiciding into the Jungle Japes river with Kirby.

edited 20th Mar '14 5:12:23 PM by IndirectActiveTransport

Buldogue's lawyer

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