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CassidyTheDevil Since: Jan, 2013
#38351: Mar 18th 2014 at 7:03:58 AM

A Final Smash is supposed to be uber-powerful. That's the point.

BadWolf21 Since: May, 2010
#38352: Mar 18th 2014 at 7:50:17 AM

Kojima not liking Portable Ops is news to me. I'd be interested in learning more about that.

I can't remember why he specifically doesn't like it, but everything left over from it is dealt with in the first like, 10 minutes of Peace Walker and has been ignored ever since.

Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#38353: Mar 18th 2014 at 7:56:36 AM

[up][up] If that was the point, Sakurai wouldn't have made some of them severely underpowered. I'm going to call some serious bull on that. It's just some unique move that can only be used under a condition. There is no consistent "how powerful it should be" among any character. It's just their final Special Move at best.

So like I said, balance 'em out a bit. For the moves like Critical Hit/Triforce Slash, leave 'em as is. They have a hard enough time hitting. Giga Bowser and other ones just need to be done so they either can't hit too hard, have legitimately weak control over it(Super Sonic does not, it's fairly easy to OTK someone with it and lasts too long in spite of this), or take damage/knockback(either of them). I'd compile a list, but meh. I think we'll see some serious balancing of them to a weaker level anyway. While I think Super Sonic is going to return because it's Super Sonic, they might be able to balance that one out a bit more. Others are easier, like I've noted twice with Giga Bowser. I'd like them to go with Pikachu as the balancing factor. He's a little hard to control, does very powerful damage, can go through many areas, and although invulnerable, his otk power isn't overdone, justifying the exact specifications.

edited 18th Mar '14 8:12:25 AM by Irene

Shadow?
Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#38354: Mar 18th 2014 at 8:31:18 AM

If that was the point, Sakurai wouldn't have made some of them severely underpowered.

What makes you think they were underpowered on purpose?

Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#38355: Mar 18th 2014 at 8:52:43 AM

That'll be the real benefit of Wii U's fully-functional patch system now. Anything that's OP can be tweaked and tweaked again.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#38356: Mar 18th 2014 at 9:01:33 AM

Pressing A when doing Volt Tackle does significantly more damage and it has a slight attack radius when doing it, timing is almost a guarenteed instant kill at 30% or higher.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#38357: Mar 18th 2014 at 9:03:24 AM

Because Sakurai knew exactly what he was doing. I mean, really, how couldn't he? He may suck at balance(admitting so), but that doesn't mean doesn't try. The character with highly powerful Final Smashes had a lot of trouble naturally OTK'ing due to other factors. The FS' themselves are not actually very balanced compared to each other. They're fairly balanced compared to the character they come from. About the only exception is perhaps the Star Fox trio.

Yeahhhhh, I'm pretty sure he knows what's exactly going on. Likewise, that was part of why he hired Namco-Bandai, to help improve the game. All 3 have been pretty darn unbalanced(64 and Melee having the most, Brawl being a huge step backwards in that regard. Not talking about whether people find it fun or not, since that's different. But actual balance) and getting some help is a good idea. He also wanted some fresh ideas, as he also said himself.

Doesn't change that the Final Smashes do not match up in power level, so there's no way they can all be overpowered enough to come to any realistic conclusion of "they were meant to be overpowered". He's not ignorant of the characters' parameters at all, he's severely dedicating to knowing everything about each character worked on. It's also part of why some characters have problems, he doesn't let his team do a bit on their own, since everything must be approved by him. Regardless, the balance needs some serious tweaking anyway.

edited 18th Mar '14 9:04:22 AM by Irene

Shadow?
Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#38358: Mar 18th 2014 at 9:56:36 AM

So what you're saying is that characters who are really good already get final smashes that are so weak that they might as well be another B move, and characters who are bad get the best final smashes to make up for it? Which final smashes would you consider to be on the level of a regular move, and are there any exceptions to this trend?

Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#38359: Mar 18th 2014 at 10:13:13 AM

I'll just bullet them for ease, namely the ones that aren't balanced out enough;

  • Bowser: A little underpowered; Final Smash is seriously underpowered.
  • Sonic: Average character with average knockback but high speed; Final Smash is very overpowered.
  • Mario: Pretty much identical to Bowser entirely.
  • Ganondorf: A very underpowered(well, in ability to actually fight overall and win, not just hit things with power) character with an extremely powerful Final Smash to make up for it.
  • Pikachu: A very powerful character; Final Smash is a little hard to control, although powerful.
  • Wolf: Guy is a bit powerful, above average; Final Smash is only slightly more powerful than the other two.
  • Fox/Falco: Both extremely powerful; Final Smashes are high-powered as is.
  • Toon Link: Fairly powerful character; Final Smash is extremely strong.
  • Jigglypuff: A bit on the weak side compared to earlier games; Final Smash kinda sucks.

I think that's all of them that are widely unbalanced, IMO(or that I can think of that time. Feel free to add more you believe don't work out too well). The rest tend to work out better power-wise. This isn't just by Tier lists either, to note. I'm talking about their basic ability to successfully OTK and how strong the Final Smash is in return. If they're not on here, the FS makes up well for their lack of KO power. Meta Knight is a good example. He has very little KO power, but his FS KO's beautifully in response to that.

To note, I don't want Final Smashes to cater to how strong the character regularly is, but to be about the same power level among everyone as is. Pikachu's, as said before, is what I consider a good one to look at for Transformations. I got zero issues the OHKO moves. They all work fine. The area attacks seem good to me, too. It's more or less the Transformations(Giga Bowser, Super Sonic, etc.) and Summons(Landmasters. You could argue they're identical in concept to Transformations, but eh. It's why I'm pushing 'em together) that need some major tweaking to allow a good balance among the Final Smashes.

Albeit, I can see why attempting to make them stronger for weaker characters and vice versa instead. To attempt to balance out the game a bit.

Shadow?
MrYoshbert A Fan of Feathery Flights of Fancy from ??? Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
A Fan of Feathery Flights of Fancy
#38360: Mar 18th 2014 at 10:27:15 AM

Is anyone else thinking about the possibility of a few of the Final Smashes being changed outright? Like them replacing Cook Kirby with Ultra Sword Kirby or something?

Eh.
Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#38361: Mar 18th 2014 at 10:37:44 AM

Pit's seems like it is getting changed.

Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#38362: Mar 18th 2014 at 10:39:15 AM

Pit is the obvious one.

[nja]

edited 18th Mar '14 10:39:37 AM by Enlong

I have a message from another time...
TPPR10 Craving for fish from up north Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Craving for fish
#38363: Mar 18th 2014 at 10:56:47 AM

Snake's should- oh wait, he's not yet in the game.

Though to be fair, almost every other character as been revealed either Thursday or Friday. Annoyingly enough.

Only sometimes posts
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#38364: Mar 18th 2014 at 11:11:48 AM

I'd like Bowser to have a different final smash, and Giga Bowser to regain its role as a boss. Pit seems like his will change, but other than that I don't predict any changes.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#38365: Mar 18th 2014 at 11:12:56 AM

Jigglypuff's final Smash is really specific area usable, knowing where to use it makes it not suck as much...or you could do the glitch with it on 4 specific stages and just use Up throw for an instant K.O.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
TPPR10 Craving for fish from up north Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Craving for fish
#38366: Mar 18th 2014 at 11:22:29 AM

How about we take a break on Final Smashes and focus on totally-not-Captain-Falcon Waluigi mod?

Only sometimes posts
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#38367: Mar 18th 2014 at 11:27:00 AM

I love the Walurambo model. I still don't know why anyone made it in the first place, but it's funny.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
SpookyMask Since: Jan, 2011
#38368: Mar 18th 2014 at 11:30:09 AM

I think thats the reason someone made it tongue

ultimatepheer Since: Mar, 2011
#38369: Mar 18th 2014 at 11:31:35 AM

Why do people like Waluigi so much?

He's a spinoff of a spinoff, and is Ugly as sin.

Keybreak (Long Runner)
#38370: Mar 18th 2014 at 11:32:11 AM

I like his voice, sounds just like him.

^Cause he's funny and he provides symmetry.

edited 18th Mar '14 11:33:05 AM by Keybreak

You gotta believe me when I scare you away, all that I wish for is that you would stay
Midna Blorbonmyoji (he/she/they) from way down south in the land of the traitors (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Blorbonmyoji (he/she/they)
#38371: Mar 18th 2014 at 11:33:35 AM

I think he owes a large chunk of his popularity to Brawl in the Family, too.

edited 18th Mar '14 11:33:53 AM by Midna

pearlina brainrot affects millions of people worldwide. if you or a loved one are suffering from pearlina brainrot, call 1-800-GAY-NERDS
MetaflarePrime Urara-lala~! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Sinking with my ship
Urara-lala~!
#38372: Mar 18th 2014 at 11:36:56 AM

because WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#38373: Mar 18th 2014 at 11:39:12 AM

Even before Brawl in the Family, he's one of my favorite Mario characters. Of the ones that weren't migrated into other non-Mario games(Yoshi and Wario), he has the most personality to me. That is, that isn't an RPG character, anyway. He's funny, actually had the role of the kicking off the plot in the Mario DDR game, is one of the sub-bosses of Mario Party 3, and the only ones that would dare to do a crotch chop.

He goes further than most characters who weren't introduced in one of the Platformers.

Shadow?
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#38374: Mar 18th 2014 at 11:41:18 AM

I don't see why ugly as sin has to equal unpopular. His gonky appearance is what makes him funny, among other things.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
KSonik Since: Jan, 2015

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