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NesClassic Meh-meh!? from Flyover Country Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: In another castle
Meh-meh!?
#35051: Feb 1st 2014 at 12:17:36 PM

Both Popo and Nana react to your controller inputs. As such, when they desynch is when Nana is following controller inputs that Popo can't do at the time. (I.e. Chaingrabs)

At least, that's what I think is going on.

edited 1st Feb '14 12:18:01 PM by NesClassic

🏳️‍⚧️she/her | Vio Rhyse Alberia
Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#35052: Feb 1st 2014 at 12:18:48 PM

She has two modes, so it is exactly true.

She either blindly follows what Popo does, or does something different when de-synched. She's basically two A.I. Modes in one, and unique in that regard.

When synched, she follows Popo's commands the best as possible(since, you know, if Popo is attacked, but not Nana, she might be able to copy the input you just made while Popo is stopped, stuff like that). When de-synched, she has her own programming that no longer copies you and does whatever is appropriate for the time being.

[up] Nope. Nana does her own thing when de-synched entirely. Your controller inputs are outright specifically telling Popo what to do. Nana's A.I. copies what Popo does, giving the illusion that you're controlling both manually, but actually going into the programming proved that to not be the case(that you manually control both).

Sakurai did say you control both Luma and Rosalina, so it's possible that unlike with Nana, your inputs are going into Luma's attacks, not Luma's A.I. copying your inputs put into Rosalina.

This is what I mean by it being hard to explain. Long story short, Nana is always a computer, no exceptions. Luma is implied to not be, which separates the two sets of characters quite a bit.

edited 1st Feb '14 12:21:53 PM by Irene

Shadow?
NesClassic Meh-meh!? from Flyover Country Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: In another castle
Meh-meh!?
#35053: Feb 1st 2014 at 12:20:02 PM

Ah, that makes sense. She automatically reacts to Popo being grabbed, right?

🏳️‍⚧️she/her | Vio Rhyse Alberia
Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#35055: Feb 1st 2014 at 12:25:14 PM

But you can have Nana attack while Popo is busy grabbing an enemy.

And in any case, I feel that the difference between controlling Nana, and having her imitate Popo's actions (which are based entirely on inputs you give) is academic. Sure, it's different on the lower level, but presents roughly the same result to the player as he fights with hem.

I have a message from another time...
Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#35056: Feb 1st 2014 at 12:25:58 PM

She also makes them stupidly broken for "Coin" mode.

Not that i ever hear of anyone other than me playing in "Coin" mode.

Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#35057: Feb 1st 2014 at 12:31:58 PM

[up][up] That's because nothing prevents the player from sending the input signal into Popo. Of course Nana will still do it even if Popo can't. Signal still exists. It's also why Nana can't do every move you send to Popo if she's being attacked or something.

It's never been "Sending a signal to both characters" in the programming like what appears to be the case for Rosalina & Luma, it's been "I send a signal to Popo, and Nana attempts to copy that signal. Whether they can both attack at the time is dependent on the current scene."

Shadow?
Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#35058: Feb 1st 2014 at 12:35:16 PM

What I'm saying is that, from the player's view, it looks the same. We don't yet know anything about what's going on under the hood with Rosalina. It could be he same setup, or it could be a different way of sending he commands simultaneously.

I have a message from another time...
Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#35059: Feb 1st 2014 at 12:48:27 PM

I know that.

The wiki itself is supposed to list facts, not our theories, on how a character works(like with other similar situations).

Anyway, I hope Luma is manually controlled.

Shadow?
CassidyTheDevil Since: Jan, 2013
#35060: Feb 1st 2014 at 12:49:50 PM

@Irene: Isn't that kind of semantics? Even if that was true, that's still responding to button input, just through a layer. Which is pretty much how stimulus-response works in general, and we don't usually consider that indirect.

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#35061: Feb 1st 2014 at 1:02:21 PM

On the last page, someone said that fewer characters = better balance. That's definitely not absolute.

CassidyTheDevil Since: Jan, 2013
#35062: Feb 1st 2014 at 1:04:44 PM

A fighting game with only one character would have perfect balance.

Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#35063: Feb 1st 2014 at 1:05:00 PM

[up][up] You're right. It's not.

I should've used usually, since it's quite often the case.

It's more than it's easier to achieve better balance with less characters. Apologies for the confusion.

edited 1st Feb '14 1:11:33 PM by Irene

Shadow?
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#35064: Feb 1st 2014 at 5:13:54 PM

From taking Notice: Nana reacts to your button inputs behind Popo by a few milliseconds...she follows the the every input you put in that she's able to do UNTIL Popo is grabbed or She is separated from Popo and until she's near you again or Popo finally escapes the grab she'll just ignore your button inputs.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
MyFinalEdits Delete message from Parts Unknown (Spin-off Series) Relationship Status: Cast away
Delete message
#35065: Feb 1st 2014 at 9:54:52 PM

Not sure if this fun fact will interest you, but I got Melee in December 2004. If the new game comes this year, I will be able to celebrate my 10th anniversary of Smash bonanza.

135 -> 180 -> 273 -> 191 -> 188 -> 230 -> 300 -> 311
wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#35066: Feb 2nd 2014 at 8:17:02 AM

Here is a Smash related video by Max ( the Assist Me The Online Warrior guy) put out a couple days ago.

What do you guys think of his talk of the game in relation to the Wii U?

Also, I noticed in the video some things I previously hadn't, namely that Samus keeps her old Final Smash and Pit's reflector now covers both sides. I was hoping Samus might get a different Final Smash if Zero Suit was her own character, but maybe if they leave it as it was and make it slightly easier to switch between the two, it wouldn't be so bad. Still, her final is too much like Mario's and Wii Fit Trainer for me. Honestly, I liked Pit's reflector(s) how it was, as it distinguished him from others.

edited 2nd Feb '14 8:18:31 AM by wanderlustwarrior

Midna Blorbonmyoji (he/she/they) from way down south in the land of the traitors (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Blorbonmyoji (he/she/they)
#35067: Feb 2nd 2014 at 8:43:37 AM

So I went on Wi Fi in Brawl today.

The connection isn't as bad as they say, you'll just run into someone who hacked the game to play as Giga Bowser permanently and lose.

pearlina brainrot affects millions of people worldwide. if you or a loved one are suffering from pearlina brainrot, call 1-800-GAY-NERDS
TPPR10 Craving for fish from up north Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Craving for fish
#35068: Feb 2nd 2014 at 8:49:37 AM

Still, [Samus's] final is too much like Mario's and Wii Fit Trainer for me.

You mean Wii Fit Trainer's Final Smash is too muc like Mario's and Samus'? Besides, Wii Fit Trainer's Final Smash seems quite different fromt he two, like how it covers more area than the other two.

Only sometimes posts
Blueeyedrat Since: Oct, 2010
#35069: Feb 2nd 2014 at 8:53:55 AM

Here's a song I'd like to hear remixed for a Pokémon stage:

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#35070: Feb 2nd 2014 at 8:58:34 AM

I saw the CD and it looked like Giratina was humping Rayquaza.

Any thoughts on the fate of Smash Bros and the Wii U? I for one know I'd probably get it on 3DS, because that's less expensive, portable, and a more likely platform for me to play. Plus, I need to find a new handheld for my "perfectly legal" DS games.

SapphireBlue Since: Jan, 2001
#35071: Feb 2nd 2014 at 9:07:08 AM

I'll probably get the 3DS version first. I don't currently have access to a Wii U, but I might in the future.

doctrainAUM White Hindu from New Jersey Since: Aug, 2010
White Hindu
#35072: Feb 2nd 2014 at 9:10:22 AM

I'll get the Wii U version, as I already bought that for Wind Waker and SMB 3D World. The only thing that could change my mind is if it turns out that the 3DS version is better or has something (not stages) that I would like better.

"What's out there? What's waiting for me?"
strawberryflavored Since: Sep, 2010
#35073: Feb 2nd 2014 at 9:12:44 AM

I'll probably get both, the 3DS one first, since I likely won't have access to a Wii U for a while.

Midna Blorbonmyoji (he/she/they) from way down south in the land of the traitors (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Blorbonmyoji (he/she/they)
#35074: Feb 2nd 2014 at 9:36:55 AM

Probably both. Might get the Wii U version before the 3DS one.

pearlina brainrot affects millions of people worldwide. if you or a loved one are suffering from pearlina brainrot, call 1-800-GAY-NERDS
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#35075: Feb 2nd 2014 at 9:52:15 AM

I'll probably get both eventually, but I'll likely pick up the Wii U version on day of release and get 3DS version at a later date when I feel like it.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!

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