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LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#34151: Jan 23rd 2014 at 3:30:23 PM

Wasn't quite the minor boss, he kicks the entire thing off on that space station outside Talon IV

Granted then it turns into the Metroid Prime thing but Ridley got the ball moving

Oh really when?
doctrainAUM White Hindu from New Jersey Since: Aug, 2010
White Hindu
#34152: Jan 23rd 2014 at 3:30:23 PM

Mother Brain gets a sticker in Brawl and might be a background figure in Melee's Brinstar. In other words, almost nothing.

"What's out there? What's waiting for me?"
Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#34153: Jan 23rd 2014 at 3:31:25 PM

Mother Brain's only appearance in the Smash series is a simple Sticker. Ridley has had more than one Trophy, is in the background in a stage, and is a boss. Twice. He was also planned to be an Assist Trophy.

Mother Brain is seriously off the radar in importance, and as for iconic? Pretty sure for the purposes of SSB, Ridley wins claws down.

Shadow?
Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#34154: Jan 23rd 2014 at 3:31:42 PM

On Medusa not having enough moves for a moveset, I'm gonna have to disagree strongly.

In terms of general attacks, we know she's got one hell of a set of arm muscles, as well as her staff for smacking people in the face. For special moves? Here's a potential set.

B: A spikey black sphere that Medusa tosses just in front of her, which hangs in the air and will explode on contact.
Side B: A shadowy laser that can be swept up or down.
Up B: Medusa warps, and claws at her opponent when she re-appears.
Down B: Medusa uses her famous gaze. If she meets an opponent's eyes, they turn to stone (can't move, but are very heavier) for a few seconds.

Final Smash: Medusa reveals her true face, tears her head off, has her head grow to monstrous size, and flies around the arena, able to fire off lasers and dark particles until she has to go back and recapitate herself.

And those are all moves that either come directly from her boss fight in chapter 9, or an ability she's known to have.

Bonus idea: Her grab is a Neck Lift, and her grab-attack has her snake-hair bite the enemy.

I have a message from another time...
ultimatepheer Since: Mar, 2011
#34155: Jan 23rd 2014 at 3:31:42 PM

Mother Brain was the final boss in the original and in Super, but I think that, given the manga, Ridley was always supposed to be the main antagonist.

That being said, His size is far less variable than bowser's, and he is always MUCH larger than Samus- At the very least, these games keep relative heights amongst characters within their own series, if not between series.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#34156: Jan 23rd 2014 at 3:31:44 PM

Even then I wouldn't say that Ridley is minor in Prime. He's present during the opening sequence and is pretty much the reason Samus flies down onto Tallon IV in the first place. You pretty much forget about him after his brief appearance in Phendrana, until he makes himself known again at the end, but I wouldn't say he just shows up out of nowhere.

Wow, mega-ninja'd.

edited 23rd Jan '14 3:32:18 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
NesClassic Meh-meh!? from Flyover Country Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: In another castle
Meh-meh!?
#34157: Jan 23rd 2014 at 3:31:59 PM

In Prime 1 he has a good deal of buildup- you find cyborg!Ridley early on, he gets free and you chase him down to Tallon IV- which kickstarts the plot of the game. You see him again in Phendrana while dealing with the whole Phazon thing...

...and he shows up near the end of the game, thus answering the question of "why the hell did I come here in the first place?"

Golden Kung-Fu Zebesian'd.

edited 23rd Jan '14 3:32:35 PM by NesClassic

🏳️‍⚧️she/her | Vio Rhyse Alberia
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#34158: Jan 23rd 2014 at 3:33:31 PM

Ridley is set up as the main antagonist for a good portion of Metroid Prime. Even though he gets overshadowed in the end he's still The Heavy. He's also The Dragon for much of Prime 3 so him being in charge isn't a new thing. Mother Brain hasn't been the primary antagonist since the early 90s(Unless you count MB in Other M in which Ridley is still a major enemy anyway).

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#34159: Jan 23rd 2014 at 3:34:02 PM

The ninja is strong here tonight

Oh really when?
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#34160: Jan 23rd 2014 at 3:34:27 PM

[up][up][up]I call those guys Ninja Pirates.

edited 23rd Jan '14 3:34:46 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
NesClassic Meh-meh!? from Flyover Country Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: In another castle
Meh-meh!?
#34161: Jan 23rd 2014 at 3:35:41 PM

I call them Golden Kung-Fu Pirates, but sometimes I also call them "Aw, crap".

🏳️‍⚧️she/her | Vio Rhyse Alberia
Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
Midna Blorbonmyoji (he/she/they) from way down south in the land of the traitors (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Blorbonmyoji (he/she/they)
#34163: Jan 23rd 2014 at 3:57:55 PM

So, since Midna is still posting here, what would be a hypothetical Lip moveset? Any assist/sticker/whatever ideas from the Furil sequel?

As previously mentioned, I squished together two different (but similar) movesets for Lip with a few of my own ideas into a moveset that I feel could work:

Stats:

  • Size: Small, about Diddy's size
  • Weight: Very light
  • Power: Weak
  • Speed: Fast
  • Jump: High

Basic moves:

  • A: Slap.
  • Forward+A: Back-handed slap.
  • Up+A: Tosses some fairy dust into the air.
  • Down+A: Does a sweep with her flower rod.
  • Smash forward: Uses her flower rod like a baseball bat.
  • Smash up: Thrusts her flower rod into the air.
  • Smash down: Ass Kicks You.
  • Air neutral: Spins around.
  • Air forward: Sweeps hand forward.
  • Air back: Kicks out backwards.
  • Air up: See air forward, except done above her head.
  • Air down: Drills down into the ground. If she lands, she does a split.
  • Dash attack: Swings her stick around wildly.
  • Ledge sweep: Flips back up onto ledge. (The 100%< sweep, although no longer applicable, is her crawling back onto the ledge.)
  • Getting up: Leaps back up, thrusting both fists outwards. (Presumably no longer applicable, but 100%< is her doing a hand sweep and getting back on her feet.)

Throws:

  • Grab&Pummel: Grabs the foe by the collar and smacks them until released. (2% per hit)
  • Throw forward: Swats the enemy away with her flower rod. (8%, puts a Lip Stick flower on the enemy's head)
  • Throw backward: Same as throw forward, but she turns around first. (10%, puts a Lip Stick flower on the enemy's head)
  • Throw up: Throws enemy up into the air. (7%)
  • Throw down: Throws enemy down onto the ground and bounces up off of their prone body. (13%)

B moves:

  • B - Fairy Seed Lip tosses a seed. If it hits an enemy, it will stick; up to three seeds can be planted on an enemy. If Lip (only) hits the enemy on that side, the seed will begin to bloom into a flower and the effect listed below will be added on to her attack. If a seed/flower is hit three times, it will fall off and disappear. Which seed is thrown is randomly determined:
    • Green (40%) - A plain green daisy-like flower. Non-elemental. Adds 2% to each hit. This is the only seed/flower that will cause no knockback if Lip attacks it.
    • Yellow (20%) - A sunflower. Electric elemental. Adds 2-3% to each hit.
    • Red (20%) - An orange tulip a la Super Mario World's Fire Flower. Fire elemental. Adds 4-6% to each hit.
    • Blue (10%) - A flower with an ice crystal instead of a bud. Ice elemental. If hit three times, it will burst and freeze the enemy as if they were hit by a Freezie. Adds 10% to each hit.
    • Purple (5%) - A purple spiky flower. Dark elemental. Poisons the enemy as if from a level-1 Lip Stick flower. Adds 8-9% to each hit.
    • Gray (5%) - A metallic flower. Adds 13-16% to each hit. Deals more knockback than the others if hit.
    • Black (random) - A "dud" seed. Deals no damage. Like the green seed, it has no knockback. This seed will not bloom into a flower, and will absorb any attacks that hit it; it will fall off after three hits as normal.
  • If Lip's attacks hit a planted seed at least twice in row, a combo marker will appear (up to x9). If it gets high enough, one of three fanfares will sound. This is cosmetic and otherwise has no effect on the battle.
  • Side-B - Quick Swap A [__] shaped cursor appears, and Lip switches positions with whatever is across from her. It can be used on characters, projectiles, and items, although heavier characters and items will take more time to switch. This does not deal damage, although it can be used to trap an enemy into some hazard.
  • Down-B - Garbage Block Lip swipes her wand a little and a garbage block falls from the sky. If it hits, it deals 18% damage with roughly the same knockback as Kirby's Stone, and can then be used as a platform until it is either destroyed by an enemy's attack or fades away on its own. Bigger garbage blocks can be created by holding down the B button to charge.
  • Up-B - Watabou A watabou (the cotton-like creature from the game's title screen) appears and pulls Lip upwards as she hangs on to its tail. After it reaches a certain height, it will begin to flutter down slowly until it hits the ground, at which point it will pop and deal a small amount of damage (~12%) to anyone nearby with some minor knockback.
  • Final Smash - Panel de Pon A background image of Cordelia/the fairy queen appears, akin to Palutena in Pit's Brawl final, with a light rain appear; this rain forms a rainbow that Lip will run up onto. A game of Panel de Pon/Puzzle League/Tetris Attack/call it what you want is then overlaid on the screen, albeit not wholly obscuring the action behind it, for a short time (about 15 seconds by default, although like in a "real" PDP game this can be extended by forming Chains or Combos). How well the player performs in this mini-game correlates to the amount of damage the other smashers will take, and the size of the Lip Stick flower that will appear on their heads.

Taunts:

  • Up Taunt: Sticks her fist up into the air and says "yatta!"
  • Side Taunt: She pulls out a flower from Hammerspace and smells it, but then sneezes and blows the petals everywhere. If an enemy is standing directly adjacent to Lip, this will play the kree! sound effect and push the enemy backwards a little with about 1-2% more damage.
  • Down Taunt: Lip looks down at her skirt and dusts the rear off a bit.

Victory:

  • A: Spins in a circle and hops happily three times, saying "Yatta!" on each. She doesn't quite make the landing on the third one and slips to the ground, then smiles sheepishly and rubs her bottom as the results are displayed.
  • B: She floats on a yellow flower throughout. She asks someone, implied to be the player(s), "楽しみに していて くれてかな?" ("Are you having fun?") followed by a wink and a giggle.
  • C: Lip plays with a bunny a little before hugging him close and winking at the screen.

Costumes:

  • Default: Yellow dress, pink skirt, pink ribbon, brown boots, maroon hair, blue eyes
  • Palette 1 (Red Team): Red dress, pale pink skirt, red ribbon, pale pink boots, blonde hair, blue eyes
  • Palette 2 (Green Team/Thiana): Green dress, pale green skirt, orange-green gradient ribbon, brown boots, dark brown hair, green eyes
  • Palette 3 (Blue Team/Elias): White dress, light gray skirt, purple ribbon, white boots, blue hair, blue eyes
  • Palette 4 (Neris): Purple dress, dark purple skirt, white ribbon, purple boots, green hair, purple eyes
  • Palette 5 ("Dark Lip"): Black dress, gray skirt, red ribbon, black boots, black hair, red eyes

Poses, etc.

  • Entering battle: Runs down off a rainbow and sticks her flower rod up in the air with an "Iku zo!".
  • Standing: Rocks from side to side a bit with a smile on her face, swinging her arms.
  • Walking: Skip of Innocence.
  • Running: Runs a la the map screen in Panel de Pon.
  • Idle A: Practices some levitation. It doesn't go too well; she falls on her bottom.
  • Idle B: Strokes her ponytail.
  • Idle C: Sneezes and rubs her nose.
  • Sleeping: Falls to the ground and starts napping in the fetal position.
  • Dizzy: Gets swirly Wingding Eyes and stumbles around.
  • Kirby Hat: Her hair, ribbon, and ponytail.
  • Icon: A heart panel.

edited 23rd Jan '14 3:59:29 PM by Midna

pearlina brainrot affects millions of people worldwide. if you or a loved one are suffering from pearlina brainrot, call 1-800-GAY-NERDS
DrFurball Since: Jan, 2001
#34164: Jan 23rd 2014 at 4:48:31 PM

I'd say Mother Brain was considered the most iconic Metroid villain in the beginning due to being the final boss of the first game, the Big Bad of Captain N, and her role in the climax of Super Metroid.

Ridley, however, has probably taken the spot due to more frequent appearances (especially in Prime) and his personal connections to Samus.

32_Footsteps Think of the mooks! from Just north of Arkham Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Think of the mooks!
#34165: Jan 23rd 2014 at 7:18:30 PM

Seems kind of silly to debate who is the iconic bad guy in Metroid when Ridley has appeared in every game in the series except three. The only foe that could be said to be more iconic than Ridley (and to have made more appearances) are the titular Metroids themselves... and those are more like forces of nature whereas Ridley's actively malevolent.

The funny thing is that, back when Metroid first came out (it was the first video game I ever beat, even... remember how I said I was 19 when the first Smash came out?), Ridley was probably the least memorable of the three bosses. Given that he had an easy pattern and you had opportunity at a ton of power-ups before fighting him, he was a pushover by the time you got to him. Kraid was much harder unless you held off on boss fights until the very end - and even if you did collect all the power-ups first, Kraid had the tougher patterns and multiple projectiles to deal with (plus, he was much more ready to use his projectiles to shield himself, whereas Ridley was bad at that). Really, Kraid was probably the hardest fight of the original Metroid, followed very closely by... ugh... Metroids themselves. Ridley didn't become iconic at all until Super Metroid (where he logically had to be the element from the first game that kidnapped the baby Metroid - nothing else made sense). Of course, since Super Metroid was the game that really established the franchise, the fact that Ridley took all the levels in badass promoted him to "major adversary" status.

And I wouldn't worry about the size thing... Olimar is canonically 3 inches tall, and yet he's not minuscule compared to everyone else. Sizing is clearly fluid for purposes of making the characters work.

As for Medusa... I remember some serious dogfights on the highest difficulty level (I may have taken in the Three Sacred Treasures at Intensity 9.0 because I hate Ornes that much). She doesn't have that many attacks, even when I had to do an extensive dogfight with her (and if you take the Three Sacred Treasures into 9.0, you will have an extensive dogfight). It's mostly iterations of those annoying lasers, with different iterations of single-piece projectiles (this one homes, that one causes shaking, this other one causes poison, and so on). It works great for an aerial battle, but she'd probably have a greater range of moves (including actual melee moves) if the battle against her was on-foot. Though I will give you that Monstrous Medusa is a pretty obvious Final Smash. I'll put it out there - of all of the possible characters from Uprising, I think she might be the one I'd least one to see promote to playable. But that also might be because the Gaol Blade is my favorite weapon in Uprising (multiple projectiles, decent sweet spot for returning fire, excellent dash attacks...), so I'm biased for Dark Lord Gaol.

Like I said before, it's not like they haven't made up movesets from whole cloth before - Fox, Captain Falcon, Falco, Wolf, Zero Suit Samus, Zelda... in fact, it's probably fair to say that half of the moves, overall, are extrapolations based on fun rather than what the characters can canonically do. I just think it'd be easier to adapt one of the Uprising characters where that was mitigated.

Also, there is one other reason - Super Weight. Most of the playable characters are 0-2 in their home worlds under most circumstances. I think Bowser and Ganondorf are the only ones that even edge close to 5, and even then they mostly keep to a 3 outside of specific circumstances (which are usually plot climaxes anyhow). Even Ridley, for all the back-and-forth about him, is probably a 3 at best (I'd more say he's a high 2). Medusa, though? At her bare minimum, even as a shade reanimated by Hades, I'd rank her at a 4 (even at a diminished state, she can cause massive destruction on the town in Stage 1 of Uprising without really trying all that hard. In her first appearance, she'd be a 5, edging on 6 (on a 7-point scale, mind you). A playable version of her that wouldn't be unbalanced would just be really off compared to her canon appearance. To compare fairly with Pit (straddling the line between 2 and 3; probably closer to 3 in Smash as his flight isn't limited by Palutena like it is in ''Uprising), you'd need someone else along those lines.

Reminder: Offscreen Villainy does not count towards Complete Monster.
doctrainAUM White Hindu from New Jersey Since: Aug, 2010
White Hindu
#34166: Jan 23rd 2014 at 7:34:59 PM

Just because someone appeared in most of the games, that does not automatically make them the most iconic bad guy. I'm not arguing for any position now, though.

"What's out there? What's waiting for me?"
Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#34167: Jan 23rd 2014 at 7:38:47 PM

On Super Weight, I must remind you that we're getting Rosalina playable alongside Mario and Bowser.

that, and the few other characters in Uprising who would make decent playable characters are either more super weighty (Hades), confirmed as something else already (Viridi), or not really resonant enough with Pit yet (Phosphora).

On melee moves, cutscenes and a few moves in her boss battle show us what she'd be like in a physical fight. She has a punch strong enough to decapitate a god, she's seen backhanding Pit with her staff to begin he fight, and she swings with her nails like claws. I can easily envision a physical moveset using those assets. The moves she does have in her boss battle could easily make for special attacks, as noted earlier, but physical atacks wouldn't really be entirely made-up either. More along the lines of Mario than Falcon in terms of how much you need to make up.

edited 23rd Jan '14 7:40:49 PM by Enlong

I have a message from another time...
Null ... from ... Since: Apr, 2009
...
#34168: Jan 23rd 2014 at 7:45:56 PM

If Dissidia Final Fantasy could come up with a varied moveset for a character who canonically had one attack, I'm sure Medusa's existing attacks could easily be incorporated into a full Smash moveset.

Regarding codec conversations - would it perhaps be a better idea for Palutena to actually have dialogue with her opponent rather than other KI:U characters?

edited 23rd Jan '14 7:46:05 PM by Null

...
wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#34169: Jan 23rd 2014 at 7:46:51 PM

I'd laugh if Samus, Zero Suit Samus and Dark Samus meant there were three versions of her and none of Ridley.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#34170: Jan 23rd 2014 at 7:54:19 PM

[up][up][up][up]How do you figure? I'm trying to think of exceptions but I can't. In video games the villain that appears the most is generally the iconic villain of the franchise. At the very least it's that way with Nintendo.2

GreatT HOT DOG Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
HOT DOG
#34171: Jan 23rd 2014 at 8:25:38 PM

I know I'm a little late in saying this, but Metroid-on-a-Stick would make one hell of an exotic delicacy.

When you wish upon a side of beef, soon will come an end to all your grief
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#34172: Jan 23rd 2014 at 8:26:32 PM

What would that even taste like though?

I don't think there's much like proper meat on a Metroid, they look awfully squishy

Oh really when?
ultimatepheer Since: Mar, 2011
#34173: Jan 23rd 2014 at 8:27:11 PM

You know, I just realized that, if metroids weren't all "Rawr imma eat your face" I would totally want one as a pet. They're just soooo cute.

IndirectActiveTransport plays capoeira from Chicago (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
plays capoeira
#34174: Jan 23rd 2014 at 8:27:11 PM

  • Wanderlustwarrior, Dark Samus is not a version of Samus.

Anyway as long as the Metroid character debate goes on I am going to continue to say Metroid Prime-Dark Samus would be my personal choices. Now, I do not have a moveset for them quite as thought out as Midna does for Lip, I Metroid Prime's moveset writes itself and having it/her change into Dark Samus through Final Smash would be 100 times better than Zero Suit Samus because it actually has basis in the Metroid games.

  • While I do not know or care for the current incarnation of the 'Super Weight' scale, Kirby can throw a 100-201 megaton punch without an Elventh Hour Super Power. Jigglypuff is literally weak to being punched and kicked and is not even considered standard tier before a moonstone evolution. I assume this puts them in different weight classes and also that Super Smash Bros has never cared about this kind of discrepancy.

  • I was surprised by that. I kind of am interested in seeing Lip in Super Smash Bros now. What would we replace her stick with though?

Buldogue's lawyer
Etheru Since: Jul, 2009

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