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TPPR10 Craving for fish from up north Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Craving for fish
#32376: Jan 13th 2014 at 6:24:25 AM

Can I just point out that the Pic of the Day is the same one from the last week?

Only sometimes posts
Vgm3 This is the Monado's power! from Miami, Florida Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
TPPR10 Craving for fish from up north Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Craving for fish
#32378: Jan 13th 2014 at 6:30:20 AM

Of course as soon as I get home they put the actual pic up.

Only sometimes posts
Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#32379: Jan 13th 2014 at 6:37:32 AM

It took way too long for the new pic to go up.

And neither Link is worth cutting. The overall series is very well known for having a child and adult iteration.

I do agree though to de-clone them. Their games show a lot of unique items. I don't mind if their B moves stay the same(sans Final Smashes), since in most games, the most iconic items/attacks are the Boomerang, Bombs, Bow, and Spin Attack. Outside of the Spin Attack(well, in Brawl where they're identical), they and somewhat arguably the Bow, are pretty different in application, range, knockback, etc.

Shadow?
Pulse The Fool from Yadayadaville Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Fool
#32380: Jan 13th 2014 at 6:39:46 AM

You're acting like the art styles fundamentally change how Zelda games work, when, well, they don't. Link is Link is Link, no matter which game you play- And yeah, I know reincarnations and all, but they're fundamentally very similar characters.

Of course, the point is moot, anyway, since we both know Toon Link is in and know he's probably going to be Link-but-better again.

edited 13th Jan '14 6:40:46 AM by Pulse

I sure said that!
TheSpaceJawa Since: Jun, 2013
#32381: Jan 13th 2014 at 6:47:04 AM

[up] Thank you, yes! That is exactly what I'm talking about. Every single Link is effectively the exact same character regardless of which game they're in, and if it weren't for art style and the occasional age difference, you'd hardly be able to tell them apart at all, if that.

Nobody tries to say that 8-bit or 16-bit Link is different character, why does Toon Link get such a distinction?

edited 13th Jan '14 6:48:26 AM by TheSpaceJawa

CassidyTheDevil Since: Jan, 2013
#32382: Jan 13th 2014 at 7:01:33 AM

They are different characters though. Not because of artstyle, but because they're literally different people.

Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#32383: Jan 13th 2014 at 7:03:07 AM

So nothing I buy among that. The games play quite differently while retaining some basic similarities in story and "Use Items and Sword to beat the game"(Item doesn't count in Zelda II, just Spells only, which the game actually played widely differently from the first game no matter how you slice it). But I don't see many similarities beyond that. Many unique items, unique skills, gameplay that is not interchangeable(the stab and slash moves for a sword make a huge difference in gameplay as is. The slash widely makes the game easier to play, which fundamentally changes your strategy)

They play differently in Smash, by quite a big degree, making them very effectively two different characters. So I stand by what I said, they should be separated because they don't play alike, which is kind of important in a fighting game. If characters play identical, being a costume is fine. If they don't(which was always the case, since a lot of Zelda games don't play very similarly anyway), then separating them makes a lot of sense.

Shadow?
Pulse The Fool from Yadayadaville Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Fool
#32384: Jan 13th 2014 at 7:04:23 AM

[up][up]That is technically true, but by that line of logic, every Link should be his own character slot in Smash.

Every Link fulfills the same basic role in every game, so I say there really only needs to be one.

[up]Except we've already seen Toon Link retaining his bow, bombs and spin attack, and Sakurai has made it clear he considers the Bow/Boomerang/Bomb/Spin Attack set to be the only thing for any Link.

edited 13th Jan '14 7:06:14 AM by Pulse

I sure said that!
Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#32385: Jan 13th 2014 at 7:24:19 AM

That's a strawman of my logic entirely.

My line of logic is you need to be distinct in gameplay to be noteworthy for a slot.

Seeing as how Link and Young/Toon Link already play distinctly in Smash alone, that is more than enough for me to want both in.

The idea that the games play really similarly... is bull. Some of them have some similar mechanics, but a lot of them are widely different. They may follow the core formula for the most part(around 8ish Dungeons with one final one. This does get changed up in some games, having sometimes Mini-Dungeons instead of regular-sized ones), but that's kind of where it ends. Most of the puzzles are different, the bosses are different(with a few common ones that come back), the gameplay took a huge unique turn very early on, the first five games playing quite differently from each other. Zelda I could not slash with the sword, which increased its difficulty. Zelda II did the whole Side-Scrolling RPG style. ALTTP added quite a few new items, and changed up the formula from "8 straight dungeons" to "3 first, 8 new ones", with some variation on it in later games, but quite often the 3 first has stuck. LA actually combined Zelda I and Zelda II's tactics with ALTTP's item set, setting it widely apart from other games(at least till the Oracle games copied LA's formula, with good success), and OOT went 3D, giving an entirely new way to play.

I actually don't believe many games are heavily similar in playstyle. The only list I see are;

  • LA > Oracle Games(the Oracle games somewhat change it up with the season/time changes, and the password system)
  • OOT > MM(MM has the Masks, but the gameplay is fundamentally the same with the Adult version, ironically so)
  • WW > TP(At least outside of the Wolf bits. The Clawshot was a huge change-up in gameplay, since going from one pillar to another with the Double Clawshot is something that fundamentally changes travel options)

As I have yet to play ST, and while to my knowledge it has similar controls to PH, I'm not going to much comment on it.

[up] ...Which are most Link's iconic moves. There's a very small amount of characters that can't do that. Of course they're going to stay both versions' specials, seeing as how both of them can use them. On the other hand, let's not forget they have very different properties as well. Showing off how different they are in WW/TP as is. They may be the same move on the outside, but are quite different when applied. They're only the same name-wise at best. Spin Attack possibly aside. They were almost identical in Brawl.

edited 13th Jan '14 7:26:59 AM by Irene

Shadow?
Vgm3 This is the Monado's power! from Miami, Florida Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
This is the Monado's power!
#32386: Jan 13th 2014 at 7:35:38 AM

This is a tad off topic but...

wild mass guess Ice Climbers will be revealed January 30, the reason being that was the original release date of Ice Climber.wild mass guess

Now's it's Shulk Time!
Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#32387: Jan 13th 2014 at 7:37:22 AM

Regardless of the date, I still think they'll be linked to NES Remix. Assuming they do get showed off before the game release. I also wonder if Sakurai will keep showing pictures after the game is released in one region like he did with the Brawl Dojo.

edited 13th Jan '14 7:37:29 AM by Irene

Shadow?
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#32388: Jan 13th 2014 at 7:37:51 AM

I couldn't care less about the Link/Toon Link thing I just want Snake back.

I wouldn't mind more completely left field newcomers like him actually, he was a fun addition and brought an interesting array of moves to the game.

Oh really when?
LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#32389: Jan 13th 2014 at 9:18:59 AM

[up]Wouldn't suprise me if he is the last one to be revealed. "Kept you waiting, huh?" you know.

Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#32390: Jan 13th 2014 at 9:33:38 AM

Actually, the fact that every version of Link tends to get boomerang, bow, and bombs is exactly why it baffles me that both Links are only using those items and a ___Shot grapple. Surely using different Links provides a great opportunity to show off the tools unique to those Links.

[up] Snake is revealed to be Old Snake, who now requires nano machine suppressants to fight for extended periods of time.

edited 13th Jan '14 9:35:04 AM by Enlong

I have a message from another time...
Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#32391: Jan 13th 2014 at 9:39:20 AM

Er, a lot of them. SS Link is lacking in the Boomerang department. Zelda 1 and 2's Link never could use a Spin Attack, since they're different Links(er, I mean, that Zelda 1/2's Link is different from others who could use the Spin Attack).

But anyway, we might see far more A move changes. Smash Attacks are great for any Hammer alone. We've already found out disjointed hitboxes or projectile moves are easily A moves now, so they can work with a lot while keeping their iconic B moves. Two different Final Smashes, though. I'd keep Triforce Slash on Toon Link, since WW had the Triforce as a key plot point. TP... does not. It's barely relevant beyond "hey, it affects a few characters to allow a few extraordinary feats". I mean, it has importance, but it's not the crux of the main plot. I think Adult Link could actually use something like Bombos instead.

edited 13th Jan '14 9:43:47 AM by Irene

Shadow?
Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#32392: Jan 13th 2014 at 10:00:14 AM

Link's had disjointed hit boxes by way of his sword from the beginning, though.

I have a message from another time...
Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#32393: Jan 13th 2014 at 10:03:32 AM

But not projectiles as A moves. That's a different thing. His Rods are just one option. Namely, I'd like to keep Toon Link's unique items on him while Adult Link could use various items from other games that he may have been in(like ALTTP). Okay, I admit, him hitting someone with his Cross from Zelda II would be funny. tongue

Shadow?
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#32394: Jan 13th 2014 at 10:47:50 AM

I wouldn't mind Toon Link so much if he wasn't a clone of normal Link.

Give him the whip(grab), deku leaf(Up B), bombchus(down B), and skull hammer(side B) and change up his normal moves a bit and he's fine.

@Blaziken: I want him in too but only because I'd like the Pokemon Trainer to represent gen 3 this time.

edited 13th Jan '14 10:48:47 AM by Kostya

Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#32395: Jan 13th 2014 at 11:34:33 AM

My biggest beef with the whole Link/Toon Link thing is the reasoning behind it all. Character A has Moveset N because of Reason X, yet Character B also has Moveset N...because of Reason X. Optimization dictates one of these things is unnecessary. That's just basic coding.

Mukora Uniocular from a place Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Uniocular
#32396: Jan 13th 2014 at 1:03:17 PM

You know what would be cool? If Ganondorf could change to Pig Ganon.

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."
Odd1 Still just awesome like that from Nowhere Land Since: Sep, 2013 Relationship Status: And here's to you, Mrs. Robinson
Still just awesome like that
#32397: Jan 13th 2014 at 1:46:57 PM

Only if he looks like this: [1]

edited 13th Jan '14 1:47:10 PM by Odd1

Insert witty 'n clever quip here.
Sterok Since: Apr, 2012
#32398: Jan 13th 2014 at 1:53:27 PM

If we do get cutscenes, then I want some scenes of everyone just sitting around and relaxing with each other. Something like this.

KSoniK Since: Jan, 2015
#32399: Jan 13th 2014 at 2:03:00 PM

Speaking of Toon Link, what would your reaction be if Toon Zelda actually managed to make it into this game as an unlockable character?

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#32400: Jan 13th 2014 at 2:05:14 PM

I would want to know if there is a Toon Sheik to go along with her because that would be adorable

Oh really when?

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