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ultimatepheer Since: Mar, 2011
#30401: Dec 24th 2013 at 8:37:58 AM

Has Scizor ever been nearly as popular as Charizard, Mewtwo, or Lucario?

The latter two of whom received movies (Mewtwo managed to get THREE) and the Former who has been a fan favorite from the very beginning, and has always been the most popular starter.

Thnikkafan ? from Faroe Islands (not really) Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
?
#30402: Dec 24th 2013 at 8:55:06 AM

Overall? He looks pretty sweet, just got a mega evolution, and has always been beloved by the online battling community.

As opposed to any other Pokemon? No.

Anyone who assigns themselves loads of character tropes is someone to be worried about.
Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#30403: Dec 24th 2013 at 9:46:08 AM

No, I want to change the subject back to bashing [any character] because its fun.

Can we not?

I have a message from another time...
Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#30404: Dec 24th 2013 at 10:17:42 AM

You know who would be cool to have in? Ridley. Playing as a Space Dragon sounds so radical. Anyone have one of those speculative movesets for him?

Elbruno Mummy Woomy from Chile: Not As Dry As Space! Since: Nov, 2011 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Mummy Woomy
#30405: Dec 24th 2013 at 10:20:50 AM

[up]That's Space Pirate Dragon to you good sir.

"Yeah, it's a shame. Here we are in an underground cave with all these lasers, and instead of having a rave we're using it for evil."
TrashJack Confirmed Doomer from beyond the Despair Event Horizon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Confirmed Doomer
#30406: Dec 24th 2013 at 10:22:21 AM

[up] Space Pirate Cyborg Dragon.

"Cynic, n. — A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be." - The Devil's Dictionary
NesClassic Meh-meh!? from Flyover Country Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: In another castle
Meh-meh!?
#30407: Dec 24th 2013 at 10:23:11 AM

Purple Space Pirate Cyborg Dragon.

🏳️‍⚧️she/her | Vio Rhyse Alberia
Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#30408: Dec 24th 2013 at 10:23:27 AM

Up B would probably be a flight mode.

B would be fire breath, in that sort of "fire arrows" pattern from his Brawl boss fight.

Down B could be a stomp that sets off a ground-bound shockwave.

Side B would be a grab like Bowser's old Koopa Klaw. Except this grab-bite move can also involve Ridley spitting a fireball in their face.

Final Smash would involve him streaking overhead and carpet-bombing the battlefield with fireballs.

I have a message from another time...
Pulse The Fool from Yadayadaville Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Fool
#30409: Dec 24th 2013 at 10:41:28 AM

I came up with one- A lunge attack where Ridley either bites at his opponent or, if it hits early in the animation, he grabs them and scrapes them across the ground or a nearby wall, if there is one and he's close enough. The wall-scraping thing is a recent development, but it feels appropriate to the character.

I sure said that!
ultimatepheer Since: Mar, 2011
#30410: Dec 24th 2013 at 11:00:41 AM

[up][up][up]''Purple undead space pirate cyborg dragon

Midna Blorbonmyoji (he/she/they) from way down south in the land of the traitors (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Blorbonmyoji (he/she/they)
#30411: Dec 24th 2013 at 12:16:34 PM

[up] "Don't push it."

pearlina brainrot affects millions of people worldwide. if you or a loved one are suffering from pearlina brainrot, call 1-800-GAY-NERDS
IndirectActiveTransport plays capoeira from Chicago (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
plays capoeira
#30413: Dec 24th 2013 at 2:32:14 PM

Keep in mind Scizor was just the next stage of the already popular Scyther and Lucario being in a movie really does not mean anything since Diamond and Pearl were not out yet. At best you could say Lucario is popular because it was in a movie, not that it was put in a movie because it was popular but I am more willing to chalk its popularity up to the fact it is actually good in battle, has a decent concept behind it and an alright design but despite all that Scizor is still consistently used more than Lucario. Admittedly, I do like Lucario, I just don't like what Smash Bros did to it.

Aura sphere is supposed to be an almost Always Accurate Attack of moderate strength. Reducing it to something like a homing projectile or Player-Guided Missile would be understandable but a knockoff of Samus's charge shot? Lucario is a steel forged predator that tracks prey through Aura Vision and tears it apart with bones protruding from its body. How does one get graceful tai chi practitioner out of that? Why does it speak instead of growl or say its name like everything else? Mewtwo's a psychic legendary and it still only did basic vocalizations. It should be more like furious heel biting attack dog that knows which way you are going to try and dodge it, not some secluded martial artist who meditates on top of narrow peaks.

And Mewtwo's supposed iconography I find suspect. Rayquaza got V-create by, if I remember correctly, beating Mewtwo in a popularity poll but even if that was not the case this is not Poke Smash Bros. Mewtwo maybe some big deal in its own stories but in the world of Nintendo as a whole it has the same basic design both Gigyas and Zoda had and in that context I would rather see one of them. What, mega evolutions? They have multiple forms too.

Buldogue's lawyer
ultimatepheer Since: Mar, 2011
#30414: Dec 24th 2013 at 2:37:43 PM

Part of my desire for Mewtwo is the fact that I, personally, DESPISE Scizor.

Scyther was neat, a giant bug with sword hands. Then Scizor is a giant robot bug with... crab hands. Just kinda weird. Not to my taste.

And besides, Scizor has never had a movie. At the very least, you can admit that that is something working against it.

CassidyTheDevil Since: Jan, 2013
#30415: Dec 24th 2013 at 2:41:16 PM

Scizor's popularity is very small, at least compared to Mewtwo and Lucario. Sure, he's over-used in the competitive scene, but that has nothing to do with popularity really.

Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#30416: Dec 24th 2013 at 2:42:31 PM

Mewtwo had three movies. That's pretty significant. Pichu also had a movie, which is one of the reasons it was a very easy choice for Melee. Combine that with clones, and well... worked well, honestly.

As for Lucario's moveset, Aura Sphere being similar to Shadow Ball made sense since it was portrayed that way in the Anime as is. Likewise, Aura was kinda hard to pull off accurately. Making it something where you get stronger the more you get hurt was a very interesting way to play him. Whether or not it worked or was honestly balanced is another story. But it was unique. I wish Pichu had a similar mechanic, since that would've made him better. Of course, I'd also reduce what does damage to him to only electric attacks, and probably have his power upgrade from it not be nearly as good as Lucario's. But eh.

Mewtwo had very little significance after his movies and Gold/Silver. He was riding off of those and Red/Green/Blue/Yellow at the time. The latest movie brought him into light, and just being in FR/LG was not enough. So he was playable... but there were new interesting characters to add, and sticking with all the original 12 apparently had priority. Nobody knows why, but eh.

Shadow?
NesClassic Meh-meh!? from Flyover Country Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: In another castle
Meh-meh!?
#30417: Dec 24th 2013 at 3:03:27 PM

And Mewtwo's supposed iconography I find suspect. Rayquaza got V-create by, if I remember correctly, beating Mewtwo in a popularity poll but even if that was not the case this is not Poke Smash Bros. Mewtwo maybe some big deal in its own stories but in the world of Nintendo as a whole it has the same basic design both Gigyas and Zoda had and in that context I would rather see one of them. What, mega evolutions? They have multiple forms too.
Iconity is different from popularity. After all, Arceus won a Dream World poll once because he's Arceus, the God Pokemon that everyone wanted to catch. (much to the dismay of those who wanted Imposter Dittos).

And even if Mewtwo's basic design/powers are similar to the other two, "in the world of Nintendo as a whole" Mewtwo is still much more recognizable. Would we cut, say, Pikachu in favor of an Emolga, or Mario in favor of a Fire Bro.? Same powers, right?

Of course not. Mario and Pikachu are the more recognizable ones.

edited 24th Dec '13 3:03:56 PM by NesClassic

🏳️‍⚧️she/her | Vio Rhyse Alberia
IndirectActiveTransport plays capoeira from Chicago (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
plays capoeira
#30418: Dec 24th 2013 at 4:39:50 PM

It is not just competitive battlers that like Scizor though. It was not especially useful in the two generations prior to the special-physical divide and even then its Melee trophy noted its popularity.(Personally I think the change to crab claws is kind of weird but I don't mind it because Kabutops already had scythe hands) and even after technician and bullet punch Scizor was not getting kicked upstairs to ubers like Garchomp. Even within its own tier, Ambipom is arguably the superior technician user and it is only in the geomancy era that Scizor has found am absolutely vital niche.

Pichu, despite having movies appearances, has by contrast been a scrappy and as for Lucario, I reiterate its presence in out of game merchandise is because it began there rather than in-game popularity putting it there. Once Pokemon players got their hands on it they did end up liking Lucario but not as much as Scizor. The only thing wrong with Scizor in merchandising is that the Pokemon company (wisely)decided to promote generation II with Ho-Oh and Lugia first foremost (and Togepi).

Generation IV could have as easily been spearheaded by Dialga, Palkia and Munchlax(who actually was on spear's edge and Snorelax's usage has not shot up in correlation to it, nor did Togepi become a staple, to this day Farfetch'd is more popular). Larvesta, who had no movie, remains more popular than Zorua. It should also be noted that by the time Lucario and the Mystery of Mew had come out the game's fandom and revenue had overtaken the show's.

As for Mewtwo, it is important in Pokemon's mythos but in the larger whole of Nintendo it is just the latest use of a design used twice before hand in the Mother Trilogy and the Star Tropics pair. Furthermore it is not the end all be all of Pokemon or even the series mascot (that's Pikachu). There are other monsters in the franchise who would be more interesting to play as in smash bros. (As for how Zygarde would jump...uh...the same way Slugma does in the Pokeathlon?) In all seriousness, Zygarde is only 16.5 feet long which is, give or take, the same size range Ridley resides in. It's not like Rayquaza or Giratina. Furthermore, it can coil itself up to take up less space and jump through a combination of Power Floats and the dragon dance animation.

Buldogue's lawyer
Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#30419: Dec 24th 2013 at 4:47:19 PM

And yet.

Mewtwo has been playable.

I have a message from another time...
Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#30420: Dec 24th 2013 at 4:49:16 PM

He was also the character that didn't make it into Brawl with the most work done on his file. He probably was the next in line if they had more time.

Shadow?
NesClassic Meh-meh!? from Flyover Country Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: In another castle
Meh-meh!?
#30421: Dec 24th 2013 at 5:22:05 PM

As for Mewtwo, it is important in Pokemon's mythos but in the larger whole of Nintendo it is just the latest use of a design used twice before hand in the Mother Trilogy and the Star Tropics pair.
And I reiterate, the design isn't the important thing. The character is, and by your logic that "They're important to Pokémon, but not to Nintendo" then what about, say, Meta Knight? He's important to Kirby, but not to Nintendo. Why should we have him playable?

And I'm still failing to see how Zygarde is a better, more recognizable choice than Mewtwo.

🏳️‍⚧️she/her | Vio Rhyse Alberia
MagcargoMan Hooray! Bubble Party! Since: Oct, 2010
Hooray! Bubble Party!
#30422: Dec 24th 2013 at 6:06:08 PM

For my list; Wario: Kat & Ana, Captain Syrup, Ashley Yoshi: Kamek Mario: Waluigi, Toad, Dr. Mario(or Doctor Bros. now), Bowser Jr.(with or without Shadow Mario) Donkey Kong: Dixie Kong, King K. Rool

Mine:

Wario: Captain Syrup

Mario: Bowser Jr

Donkey Kong: King K Rool

Anyway, I just thought, they could replace both Pokemon trainer (Red) with Lucas and have him use Tortera (Seven feet tall, minimountains and a tree growing on its back, Mighty Glacier), Infernape (3 feet tall, high speed stats, Fragile Speedster) and Empoleon (Five Foot Seven, Made Of Steel, Stone Wall). Replacing Ivysaur, Squirtle and Charizard would make way for Ridley (or Medeus/T-rex if Sakurai wants to continue trolling) and they would be an interesting trio. Ridley and Metroid Prime for new playable Metroid characters and Tyranitar/Scolipede/Weavile to replace Lucario.

You're trolling, right? Right?...

edited 24th Dec '13 6:09:38 PM by MagcargoMan

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8yAjWvAqyM
Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#30423: Dec 24th 2013 at 6:11:26 PM

I still like the Meowstic team idea, especially since the two Meowstic sexes are so opposed in moves.

I have a message from another time...
MagcargoMan Hooray! Bubble Party! Since: Oct, 2010
Hooray! Bubble Party!
#30424: Dec 24th 2013 at 6:18:18 PM

Samus is floaty because she comes from space. Rosalina is light because she comes from space (specifically, an observatory that can't have much gravity). Logic.

Rosalina is light because of Anti-Gravity powers. Sakurai said in the Miiverse post.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8yAjWvAqyM
NesClassic Meh-meh!? from Flyover Country Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: In another castle
Meh-meh!?
#30425: Dec 24th 2013 at 6:26:37 PM

[up]It was said in an interview that Samus is floaty when she jumps because that's how she is in her games, or at least NES and Super.

🏳️‍⚧️she/her | Vio Rhyse Alberia

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