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Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#26226: Oct 23rd 2013 at 4:21:29 PM

[up][up][up] And Pokemon Trainer had the Kanto starters because of Ash. There was no game influence here, just Anime influence, as said by Sakurai anyway.

[up][up] Sakurai having a big ego is no insult, however. He does have one. I find that interesting and I think that explains his decisions. I don't think he's terrible for it either, which means I'm not insulting him. Not being a hypocrite dude. And seriously, the clones are here to stay, so just drop the idea that they aren't key to the series.(never mind that they were a major point for getting in a lot of characters in each game...)

Also, why is Feraligatr important then? I already explained why he isn't more important than the other Johto Trio. They're seen as just that, a trio. Also, lack if heavy Anime influence made him not worth considering by that point. Including movie stuff.

And yeah, it's only the Anime that has made any of the Starters utterly notable, and even then, that's where Sakurai looks, so unless they're heavily starring Pokemon(and in almost every case, it's only due to Ash having them) in movies, they're really not very important at all. Which is pretty much true due to the, you know, the fact that the Pokemon are chosen due to their Anime and Movie influence. So either make them notable in the Anime, or a major component of the movie, or shrug as they don't get in since they don't have any notable factors. Also, keep in mind outside of Pikachu, no Starter has been the Generational mascot. Making not a single one notable enough. Not more notable than Lucario or Pichu, who, surprise surprise, got in due to being majorly notable characters at the time. We're lucky Ash had the Kanto trio, even, and nearly a perfect match to PT's Pokemon. Otherwise getting him would've been a pipe dream.

You had no evidence I read of Nintendog. And yeah, he could do all of that anyway. Not as easily as most, but definitely can. I'd like to note Pikachu using a Super Scope, holding my Items in its mouth, not its hands. Nintendog can be easily made to fight even in these settings. Odd, but not impossible. I've seen it before in multiple fighting games. It's a fantasy series anyway. But it's just based upon a series of playing with animals and has no fighting. Which is why I don't think he fits in, because there's no reason for him to fight. Villager at the time is no different.(why on earth would a character in a peaceful game want to fight? Exactly) I don't buy that they were impossible to make as fighters due to some lack of abilities, especially when Villager showed he could do tons of things, most notably from before New Leaf, so that's not blatantly the case of "lack of how to fight" at all as you think it is. Both are viable theories at this point.

Blaziken is not viable without his other counterparts(that's the problem with trios. One does not outshine the other, especially a full group of 9 like the other trios. Having one of each is the only way to go. Playing favorites with them was never a shown option). Meanwhile, Plusle & Minun, or even Deoxys, is. Since they don't need to have anybody else besides themselves in most cases by their side. Plusle & Minun are a specific time. Deoxys is on its own with possible transformations. Blaziken is hardly noteworthy without the other trio. He's slightly my favorited at the moment, but never was till now. That, and if they're going to change out PT's Pokemon, they need to go the entire whole enchilada, and since it'd make little sense to have two Fire Final Evolutions, Charizard already wins out anyway.(more popularity, two mega forms, actually was used by more than one counterpart to Red...) If we had a Gen III Pokemon Trainer, easiest combo I could see is actually Mudkip, Combusken, and Sceptile, since it fits the anime a bit better. And the main counterpart of the hero's final one is a Sceptile. Only thing Blaziken has of note is his Mega Evolution, but... that's it.

edited 23rd Oct '13 4:26:58 PM by Irene

Shadow?
Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#26227: Oct 23rd 2013 at 4:25:00 PM

When has he said anything like that regarding the setup for the Pokemon Trainer, in particular? The starters were popular, or at lest prominent, from day one. They're on the box art, fer crying out loud.

Now, Pikachu. There's a guy who's popular because of the anime.

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NesClassic Meh-meh!? from Flyover Country Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: In another castle
Meh-meh!?
#26228: Oct 23rd 2013 at 4:30:33 PM

Blaziken IS more viable than the other two Hoenn starters. Ensemble Dark Horse? Check. Given a Mega Evolution? Check. (Which you did note, at least.)

I wouldn't mind a playable Blaziken, although I'd prefer Mewtwo's return.

edited 23rd Oct '13 4:33:25 PM by NesClassic

🏳️‍⚧️she/her | Vio Rhyse Alberia
doctrainAUM White Hindu from New Jersey Since: Aug, 2010
White Hindu
#26229: Oct 23rd 2013 at 4:33:14 PM

It's easy to see the confusion as "big ego" (ie. arrogant) is an insult nearly every time it is used. I got confused because you went on to talk about how he was willing to cut Kirby characters from the first two games, which looks more like humility. Besides, true things can still be insults.

"What's out there? What's waiting for me?"
Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#26230: Oct 23rd 2013 at 4:36:39 PM

[up][up] Blaziken isn't more viable at all. Not without the rest of the trio. Only thing he has is a good chance for the final evolution, possibly more than Sceptile, but that's really it. Being an Ensemble Dark Horse means little when his notability is again, more or less because he's a member of the main trio. He's the most popular of the final evolutions, so it's understandable he has a chance, but not without the other two.

@Enlong: There is really no way that starter line-up can make sense without influence from the Anime whatsoever. Only game you can get that Starter line-up in the exact same way just simply by playing the game alone is Yellow, which is specifically based upon the Anime. It's influenced by the Anime like all his other choices(or Movies, which are from the Anime anyway, starring the same characters, although not entirely in the same continuity sometimes) as he outright said it. So no, I don't buy the games being relevant at all to the exact line-up. And until he outright says that they were based upon the games, I will never buy another explanation, but it just doesn't make a single lick of sense in any way at all. It'd be contradictory of his statements.

[up] The difference is that I'm still not using it as an insult and actually find that an endearing trait at this point. Humility is another one. I don't consider his decisions bad(besides perhaps Tripping, but even I found that fun to play around at times, so...), so I'm very much not insulting him, which is blatantly clear. I don't agree with all of his decisions, but I think they worked out for the best overall and I consider each game awesome anyway. Even if they're not my favorite.(Brawl is my least favorite, but damn, it was still an amazing experience with an excellent roster. Which... is the same thing for each game, if you take away the "favorite" comment)

edited 23rd Oct '13 4:41:05 PM by Irene

Shadow?
Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#26231: Oct 23rd 2013 at 4:38:30 PM

The Gen 1 starters are absolutely notable. Starters are more notable in General because everyone is guaranteed to have one, and the Gen 1 starters are especially notable because they're from the original games, which are both important to the series and incredibly popular.

[up]Pokemon games don't have to be played alone. Trading is a very viable way of getting all three starters. Plus the trainer is based on FRLG-Red, not Yellow-Red.

edited 23rd Oct '13 4:44:27 PM by Moth13

Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#26232: Oct 23rd 2013 at 4:43:51 PM

Well, if nobody will accept an explanation other than the one they currently have, then discussing it is just fucking pointless, isn't it?

I'd have said something further about the lineup, but why even bother? You aren't going to listen, and I can't understand your position either, so forget it. I shouldn't even have risen to the initial statements by bringing up my own dissension in the first place, because I knew how this was going to go. It's how it always goes.

edited 23rd Oct '13 4:46:01 PM by Enlong

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Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#26233: Oct 23rd 2013 at 4:57:57 PM

My position is that the lineup was based upon the Anime/Movies, like Sakurai already said has always been the case. Not hard to understand in any possible way. Games have only given him one thing, other information save fighter choices. Some of the movesets(even if they're generally Anime-inspired), some of the Poke Ball Pokemon(although a lot of them are other Legendaries who star in movies), and the music/stickers/trophies. But all the Fighter line-ups were Anime/Movie inspired, again, but his own admittance. So how you expect me to believe it was just based upon the games that can't even have that legitimate line-up(without trading, a mechanic not even implied with Pokemon Trainer's existence) outside of an Anime-based one is pretty funny by that point.

Until we have proof otherwise(of which there is only evidence of Anime-inspiration, but never once the other way around), this stance is 100% unchangeable.

[up][up] Same overall character. And trading is irrelevant here. You will never see Red with that lineup or anything close to that lineup. Ever. You will see Ash with it. Designs(which is what Trainer has) and influence(which is his Pokemon lineup) are entirely different things. Trainer himself is not under the Fighter data either, so he doesn't even count as one for Sakurai. He also noted this later on when his number of Fighters didn't really include Trainer, and he says you don't "fight" as him. So he himself is no Fighter, just a controller. Which also explains why he himself has a Game design and no direct references to the Anime(well, outside of having a voice that slightly mimics Ash, but that's a little different anyway.)

Shadow?
Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#26234: Oct 23rd 2013 at 4:59:28 PM

Yes. Okay. You said that. I agree that you won't change your mind. What do you want me to say before we can get off this pointless subject, devoid of motion or ability to change? Do you want me to agree with you?

"I agree with you. You are right."

Is that enough?

edited 23rd Oct '13 5:02:33 PM by Enlong

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NesClassic Meh-meh!? from Flyover Country Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: In another castle
Meh-meh!?
#26235: Oct 23rd 2013 at 5:11:14 PM

Maybe we can switch around to the subject of a Nintendog?

Less "why we can't have one" or "why there isn't one" and more "'the hell can it do?"

I imagine it as being even more of an unintentional fighter than Villager. Not one of it's attacks would be attempting to hurt someone; not even the Final Smash!

🏳️‍⚧️she/her | Vio Rhyse Alberia
Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#26236: Oct 23rd 2013 at 5:11:19 PM

[up][up] If you don't want to continue the subject, which is fine, you should change it or not talk about it. Being passive-aggressive about it or screaming is not going to help anyone here. smile

[up] Yes. His Final Smash would be mauling someone in a similar sense to Ike/Link's FS's.

edited 23rd Oct '13 5:12:34 PM by Irene

Shadow?
Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#26237: Oct 23rd 2013 at 5:15:52 PM

Okay. Let us talk about anything else. smile

Except Shiek, Fire Emblem, clones, the word "likely", reasons for representation, the identity of characters with different models, or Ridley, of course.

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doctrainAUM White Hindu from New Jersey Since: Aug, 2010
White Hindu
#26238: Oct 23rd 2013 at 5:16:51 PM

Mega Man: Summons that green mecha dragon from one of the NES games

Actually, since the Yellow Devil is far more iconic, this seems unlikely. Not that I'm saying YD will be an FS.

EDIT: Oops, just said "unlikely".

edited 23rd Oct '13 5:17:18 PM by doctrainAUM

"What's out there? What's waiting for me?"
NesClassic Meh-meh!? from Flyover Country Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: In another castle
Meh-meh!?
#26239: Oct 23rd 2013 at 5:20:21 PM

[up][up][up]Like... Nintendog plays with the person and gets up in their face and licks them and gives hi-fives and it's so cute that it licks their face and they get KO'd.

I love where this is going.

🏳️‍⚧️she/her | Vio Rhyse Alberia
Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#26240: Oct 23rd 2013 at 5:20:31 PM

I'd like to see him summon King Dragon(the green mechanic dragon in X4) if anyone. tongue

No, the fact he's my favorite reploid is irrelevant. >_>

Shadow?
NesClassic Meh-meh!? from Flyover Country Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: In another castle
EviIPaladin Some Guy Or Something from Middle-Of-Nowhere, NS Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: Noddin' my head like yeah
Some Guy Or Something
#26242: Oct 23rd 2013 at 5:23:51 PM

Man, I wish there was a way that this thread could get locked until we got more information to actually discuss. Otherwise, it feels like we are stuck in some never ending time loop.

"Evii is right though" -Saturn "I didn't know you were a bitch Evii." -Lior Val
Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#26243: Oct 23rd 2013 at 5:24:57 PM

You will never see Red with that lineup or anything close to that lineup.
Gold and Silver, their remakes, Pokemon Adventures. And trading is a huge part of the games, it's implied that he can do it by the very fact that he is a Pokemon Trainer.

Nap1100 Since: Mar, 2012
#26244: Oct 23rd 2013 at 5:31:13 PM

[up]x7: Let's talk about competitive play. tongue

but seriously though is it okay if we talk about competitive stuff because I want to rant about something

Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#26245: Oct 23rd 2013 at 5:33:15 PM

[up][up][up][up] Which game is that from?

edited 23rd Oct '13 5:33:29 PM by Irene

Shadow?
Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#26246: Oct 23rd 2013 at 5:33:29 PM

So why is Shiek a taboo topic again?

edited 23rd Oct '13 5:34:18 PM by Moth13

Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#26248: Oct 23rd 2013 at 5:36:08 PM

Well, not Shiek alone, but Shiek in the context of the disguise's relevance to Zelda nowadays, an especially the subject of Skyward Sword Impa are a powder keg too volatile to be handled by the mightiest Goron.

edited 23rd Oct '13 5:36:40 PM by Enlong

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Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#26249: Oct 23rd 2013 at 5:37:07 PM

[up][up] Never played it. I think Sheep Man came beforehand, though?

edited 23rd Oct '13 5:37:18 PM by Irene

Shadow?
Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#26250: Oct 23rd 2013 at 5:38:15 PM

No. Sheep Man was a MM 10 creation.

My choice for Mega Man's Final Smash is the Rush Super Adapter from MM 7.

edited 23rd Oct '13 5:38:34 PM by Enlong

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