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MagcargoMan Hooray! Bubble Party! Since: Oct, 2010
Hooray! Bubble Party!
#26201: Oct 23rd 2013 at 6:02:00 AM

Nintendog wasn't any more relevant as the Villager point.

Actually, the Nintendog was the entire point to explaining the "not feasible" thing. Clearly you didn't read it properly.

If Sakurai says that there were no feasible characters besides Pichu(in the movies), then who am I to argue with that? Pichu did have a movie starring himself as the Pichu Bros. What other feasible G/S characters had their own movie? Specifically?(Shorts are movies, keep in mind). Feraligatr and Scizor are not stars in any movies.

You never said by feasible you meant Movie Advertsing. I just thought you meant feasible as in characters who could work.

Also, that would mean he'd be using a non-1st Gen Starter Trio lineup, who are immensely popular overall.

I don't understand.

But Dr. Mario had something Mario didn't, Mega Vitamins. Since this is a different move from the regular Fireballs, that was more than enough to make a unique character for Sakurai.

He must get impressed real easily.

edited 23rd Oct '13 6:03:57 AM by MagcargoMan

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8yAjWvAqyM
TPPR10 Craving for fish from up north Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Craving for fish
#26202: Oct 23rd 2013 at 6:10:35 AM

Speaking of Nintendogs, how come we haven't seen anything from that stage?

Only sometimes posts
Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#26203: Oct 23rd 2013 at 6:15:25 AM

Please stop looking down on Sakurai and making statements like that. It's getting increasingly rude. You don't like his decisions? That's fine. Stop making bashing statements.

Feraligatr is no more important the the rest of the Starter trio. Sakurai shows a bit of love for Gen 1. What I'm saying is that I doubt we would've gotten a G/S trio over a R/B trio. Also, the R/B trio were relevant in the movies often due to Ash using them the most. He used Squirtle, Bulbasaur(who did refuse to evolve but unlike Squirtle, may have, which does tie into why Sakurai probably chose Ivysaur for the evolution, in a What Could Have Been point), and Charizard quite often. Likewise, no specific Starter by Sakurai has shown any more love than the other in that particular Trio. This is why I think he went with a Trio only for using the regular Starters. Even the first 64 game showed off the Kanto Starters in some way. Charmander was the only one that wasn't a final evolution that appeared. Charizard and Blastoise were in Poke Balls. Venusaur was in the Saffron City Hazard along with Charmander.

I apologize for not specifying the movie-related feasability, then. It is true, though. He's specified who's specifically hot and starring and stuff. I did think it was implied, and that's entirely my bad.

And I really don't care at this point about the Nintendogs thing. All I know is that he wasn't shown as a capable fighter at this time, which I interpret as too peaceful(obviously you don't, which is understandable) instead. I find Villager the same way.

edited 23rd Oct '13 6:35:19 AM by Irene

Shadow?
KSoniK Since: Jan, 2015
#26204: Oct 23rd 2013 at 6:22:21 AM

Two questions about Toon Zelda

1. Does anyone know why Sakurai planned for her to be in Brawl?

2. How much would this factor affect Toon Zelda's chances of being in Smash 4 as a hypothetical last-minute clone?

edited 23rd Oct '13 6:22:40 AM by KSoniK

Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#26205: Oct 23rd 2013 at 6:29:50 AM

1. He does have a liking for clones, as she's a major character in Wind Waker, just like Toon Link was. Mind you, he also doesn't care about making clones of characters that don't exist in any series but his own mind.(Master Hand is actually similar to Wham Bam Rock from Kirby, which also shows up with the combination with Crazy Hand. In addition, all of Brawl's bosses fight similar to a Kirby character. Then there was Giga Bowser, the possible Toon Sheik, who may or may not have become Tetra eventually if he finished, but it could go realistically either way for him, and the Fighting Wire Frames and Alloys. The Fighting Polygon Team may have been made first instead. I say this because Captain Falcon had the first model, which is a very generic model similar to his Polygon form. It's hard to say in that case. Also, Crazy Hand is a clone of Master Hand, having a few different moves in Melee, and a bit more unique moves in Brawl. Yeah, he made a clone of a character he created just for Smash, enough said)

2. I doubt it quite a bit. At this time, he is probably going to look at more fan favorites like Roy or Dr. Mario among the Forbidden 7. Dixie as well if he can get her working(which is why she isn't in Brawl as a partner to Diddy). Then there's Mewtwo. Plusle & Minun I find a bit more likely if that was them and if the Hoenn remake is released around For's release date.

edited 23rd Oct '13 6:32:24 AM by Irene

Shadow?
Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#26206: Oct 23rd 2013 at 6:30:54 AM

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

I have a message from another time...
32_Footsteps Think of the mooks! from Just north of Arkham Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Think of the mooks!
#26207: Oct 23rd 2013 at 6:42:36 AM

Obviously, a puppy has cutely run away with the stage pics, and they're still trying to catch it. D'aww... he thinks he's a game designer!

I think Mewtwo only works as a villain in the metagame, being classically always the 'mon you had to be prepared for in an unlimited environment. If you go by the story in the games, he's at worst a Tragic Villain (made purely as an experimental subject, tested on, classic case of Gone Horribly Right), and even that's stretching what he did at the former lab on Cinnabar Island (note that he only sacked the place he escaped from, and just ran from people in general beyond that). Yes, going by the anime (and I think the manga), he's more of a straight-up villain (though they also emphasized the previously mentioned points even more than the games), but they've made it repeatedly clear that they only consider the games and not any adaptations for Smash inclusion.

If you want to pick a non-human from Pokemon that would count as evil, again, the only solid case that is even remotely iconic would be Darkrai (who did get a starring role in a movie, even if it wasn't theatrically released here)... but that's only counting Pokemon Ranger, and as I said before, the fandom gets all up in arms when those depictions are taken as canon across the board (given that the Pokedex regularly refers to it as a Reluctant Monster).

I think a different idea for either Ghetsis or Giovanni (probably the former, though the latter would be my preference) would be to have them moving about on the stage, and all of their attacks are summoning different Pokemon quickly to do attacks (both have depictions where they're wearing long coats or cloaks; they could secretly have their 'mons out under there). I imagine it would be more popular than yet another take on the switching mechanic that I know annoyed quite a few people about Pokemon Trainer (I never liked using Ivysaur myself). I'll throw out that, under this suggested system, Giovanni's Final Smash would be summoning Garchomp to do Outrage (he had one in Black 2/White 2 in the Type Expert/World Leaders tournament), while Ghetsis would summon Kyurem to use Glaciate.

It occurs to me that one move that would probably be really popular would be to make Isaac of Golden Sun a playable character, and give his old niche as an assist trophy to Mallo of Pushmo.

Reminder: Offscreen Villainy does not count towards Complete Monster.
KSoniK Since: Jan, 2015
#26208: Oct 23rd 2013 at 6:47:34 AM

Yeah, Isaac's definetly a great choice for this game.

Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#26209: Oct 23rd 2013 at 6:49:40 AM

Honestly, I can't see Giovanni outside of being the same type of character as Pokemon Trainer at best. But I'm torn between having him appear or a Rocket Grunt, to keep up the generic trainer idea Sakurai went with in the first place. Only issue is good choices for Pokemon. Raticate is not that hard to work with. Golbat/Crobat/Zubat, though... yeah. I mean, they could go with Ekans or perhaps something akin to a similar idea to Mr. Game & Watch, where the Rocket Grunt(or perhaps it could still be called Pokemon Trainer and has 5 costumes, one for each Grunt of each series. I forget if the second Team Plasma's uniform was the old or new, but he'd have the uniform of the always evil one) would do each attack by having a Pokemon do it. It'd be using the Ekans, Koffing, Zubat, Ratatta, and other similar grunt-related lines from each Gen. It's been a while, so I don't remember what all the Grunt Pokemon were. For instance, B could be Poison Sting, Up B could be Fly, his Forward Smash A could be Hyper Fang, maybe Down Smash is Tail Whip(as in Ekans/Arbok moving its tail around similar to Samus or Mario's Down Smash, at least in 64).

I think both are notable styles. One akin to Mr. Game & Watch, but showing off every Pokemon Generation while having a villain specifically, something Mewtwo isn't truly.

[up] Hell yes.

edited 23rd Oct '13 6:50:31 AM by Irene

Shadow?
Odd1 Still just awesome like that from Nowhere Land Since: Sep, 2013 Relationship Status: And here's to you, Mrs. Robinson
Still just awesome like that
#26210: Oct 23rd 2013 at 9:12:55 AM

Also, Pichu wasn't entirely wanted at first. Of the only data findable, he wanted a G/S character, but nobody was feasible.
BS. Dunsparce totally could've worked.

But being more serious, why not Heracross? Thanks to the anime, it's not like Heracross would've been a particularly obscure Pokemon at the time, being one of Ash's prime players, plus, it has a powerful physical moveset.

RE: Toon Zelda: I think she has about as much chance of getting in as Marin does. Actually, strike that, she has about as much of a chance of getting in as Seagull!Marin.

edited 23rd Oct '13 9:13:42 AM by Odd1

Insert witty 'n clever quip here.
Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#26211: Oct 23rd 2013 at 9:20:56 AM

I dunno. Tetra's a cool character, and the other Toon Zelda has some potential with Phantom Armor.

I have a message from another time...
Odd1 Still just awesome like that from Nowhere Land Since: Sep, 2013 Relationship Status: And here's to you, Mrs. Robinson
Still just awesome like that
#26212: Oct 23rd 2013 at 9:40:26 AM

It'd be neat, sure, I just don't think it's likely.

Insert witty 'n clever quip here.
Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#26213: Oct 23rd 2013 at 9:50:32 AM

Why is it that every time i wake up (or go away to work) and there's more than one page of replies when I get back it's always the same thing?

Odd1 Still just awesome like that from Nowhere Land Since: Sep, 2013 Relationship Status: And here's to you, Mrs. Robinson
Still just awesome like that
#26214: Oct 23rd 2013 at 9:51:24 AM

Because tropers are nothing if not consistent.

Insert witty 'n clever quip here.
TechPowah Just a simple hero from the room down the hall Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
Just a simple hero
#26215: Oct 23rd 2013 at 10:26:21 AM

Well, perfect time for some WMGs, then.

wild mass guess The kid's room in 64 is actually one of the Easter Egg rooms in Ocarina's Hyrule Castle. This is not only why Hyrule Castle is the Zelda stage, but why Link is always the first opponent: The Zelda universe is easiest for MH to create because that's where his base is.

Also, while the characters are just plushies, the insides really are the characters; Master Hand trapped each fighter into the plushies to make them fight. 1P mode was you fighting for freedom, and the person leaving the room is the character inside the respective plushie you played as. In addition, the characters you fight or team up with are also free from the toy forms by the end of the match. Metal Mario, the PFT and the minigames are original creations made simply to keep the heroes from escaping.

Bring all of the above together, and you get the big part of this WMG: the "canon" player character in 1P mode is Link, who freed the other characters, destroyed the other obstacles and defeated Master Hand, gaining his freedom, and later left the room, making, if not the series, the game just as much a Zelda game as it is a Kirby game. It also helps that Link is still at Hyrule Castle, just chilling in his Congratulations! picture.

edited 23rd Oct '13 10:31:59 AM by TechPowah

The New Age of Awesome is here! Not even the sky is the limit!
Folt Warlock Necromancer from Hollow Bastion! >=D Since: Jun, 2010
Warlock Necromancer
#26216: Oct 23rd 2013 at 10:59:30 AM

Because tropers are nothing if not consistent.

Or persistent.

[up] Well, that's a wmg if I've ever seen one.

Fantastic Supreme Überkaiser Emperor Folt of The Infinity and Beyond" ... "The First"!
TechPowah Just a simple hero from the room down the hall Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
Just a simple hero
#26218: Oct 23rd 2013 at 11:19:11 AM

Speaking of Little Mac, if he shows up, regardless of being playable, would you want his look to be the original look, or the new tanner version from PO Wii? I'm pulling for Wii, myself.

The New Age of Awesome is here! Not even the sky is the limit!
DrFurball Since: Jan, 2001
#26219: Oct 23rd 2013 at 11:30:44 AM

The Wii version, definitely. I can't imagine why they'd use the original any more.

There'll probably be a blonde hair/blue trunks color scheme, too.

32_Footsteps Think of the mooks! from Just north of Arkham Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Think of the mooks!
#26220: Oct 23rd 2013 at 1:03:20 PM

Well, given that they could go classic for one palette and modern for another, the appropriate question would be, which would you prefer to be Little Mac's default look?

Reminder: Offscreen Villainy does not count towards Complete Monster.
Pulse The Fool from Yadayadaville Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Fool
#26221: Oct 23rd 2013 at 1:07:50 PM

Mac really didn't change much in appearance between Punch-Out!! and Punch-Out W!!. The style changed, but the design is basically the same- Heck, we've got six easy color choices. Minor Circuit, Minor Circuit, World Circuit, Champion, 2P Mac and a scheme based on the unnamed contender from SNES Super Punch-Out!!.

I sure said that!
Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#26222: Oct 23rd 2013 at 3:34:39 PM

@Odd1: Heracross isn't the main star of a single movie. Unlike Mewtwo and Pichu, or a Pokemon Trainer centered around Ash's team(which he's still starring in the movies as often the main protagonist or secondary), or even the Kanto Starter Trio. As I said, feasible as in movies was the only thing that showed up so far for playable characters(Plusle & Minun didn't have a movie I believe..., so if they did have a chance, they'd be the only exception besides Jigglypuff. Pikachu was technically the star of some movies, being called Pikachu Shorts and all) Heracross wasn't feasible among the Starring characters of the Movies, which considering that's a major thing Sakurai looks at, would probably what he meant during that time. Mind you, as I noted before, that'd a badly cited source, although I think that came from some actual online videos. But it does at least match up heavily with Sakurai's actions, and thoughts in almost every case(I'm speaking of what he did during the Melee portion of what I linked), so most if not all is really easy to believe.

It even explains why Pokemon Trainer is Kanto-based, since the only type of Trainer to show up with a similar set of that in the Anime is Ash, and is the only one to show up specifically in any movies. Using his counterpart's design and slapping on the Kanto starters based around it? Kinda makes sense with his ideals.

Eh, Toon Zelda was very likely at the time if he had more time. Right now he has some far more interesting choices, but Toon Zelda/Phantom Zelda is the latest version with the most notable gameplay. And clearly clones arriving is still fine(unless it's a clone from a different series fighting game. Which is exactly what he said won't get in. Keep in mind people thought that due to this, he may not put in other clones. Of course, that was proven wrong, but what he said does make it sound like he's going less on the clone route, and that still may be true. Toon Link using his most iconic Link weapons makes sense, anyway. Rest of the clones from Brawl, being Falco and Ganondorf, does not. Lucas does share enough similarities, especially the B moves, to want some change. Giga Bowser is just a boss or temporary power-up, so changing him is unneeded, unless they somehow give him his own slot, but on the other hand, he plays widely different despite his clone-age, and is a literally in-series transformation of Bowser, so him staying a clone makes perfect sense. Wolf, despite not really being a clone, could stand to lose the Landmaster. Maybe Reflector too, but while his other moves are not a clone move, they could be even more unique.)

Shadow?
Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#26223: Oct 23rd 2013 at 3:46:52 PM

Pokemon Trainer had the Kanto Starters. Ash also got the Kanto Starters in the anime. The Kanto Starters have good exposure, them being on the box art and all. Ash had the Kanto Starters because they're popular.

But that's another discussion; one we've had about 4 times, by my count.

edited 23rd Oct '13 3:48:09 PM by Enlong

I have a message from another time...
MagcargoMan Hooray! Bubble Party! Since: Oct, 2010
Hooray! Bubble Party!
#26224: Oct 23rd 2013 at 4:07:26 PM

Please stop looking down on Sakurai and making statements like that. It's getting increasingly rude. You don't like his decisions? That's fine. Stop making bashing statements.

That's really hypocritical. You said "Sakurai has a big ego" twice on the last page in two different posts.

Feraligatr is no more important the the rest of the Starter trio. Sakurai shows a bit of love for Gen 1. What I'm saying is that I doubt we would've gotten a G/S trio over a R/B trio.

I never said anything about them being Pokemon Trainer's Pokemon. You brought the trainer up, not me.

Also, the R/B trio were relevant in the movies often due to Ash using them the most. He used Squirtle, Bulbasaur(who did refuse to evolve but unlike Squirtle, may have, which does tie into why Sakurai probably chose Ivysaur for the evolution, in a What Could Have Been point), and Charizard quite often.

You say that as if, without the Anime, Starters are no more important than a Com Mon. When they aren't.

And I really don't care at this point about the Nintendogs thing. All I know is that he wasn't shown as a capable fighter at this time, which I interpret as too peaceful(obviously you don't, which is understandable) instead.

So your willfully ignoring the evidence that proves my point? Wow.

Nintendog is not capable of fighting because he can't. How would he pick up a crate, or use the Super Scope? Or the Fire Cracker? He can't. Maybe if Nintendogs had cartoony dogs that take liberties with physics he could, but they don't. He's a realistic dog.

Two questions about Toon Zelda 1. Does anyone know why Sakurai planned for her to be in Brawl? 2. How much would this factor affect Toon Zelda's chances of being in Smash 4 as a hypothetical last-minute clone?

1. Because he likes clones for some reason... 2. I'd really hope not. She'd feel like an unnecessary filler character, and Toon Link already reps Wind Waker / Toon Link-artstyle games well enough.

Plusle & Minun I find a bit more likely if that was them and if the Hoenn remake is released around For's release date.

If any Gen III Pokemon should be playable, it's Blaziken.

edited 23rd Oct '13 4:10:20 PM by MagcargoMan

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8yAjWvAqyM
NesClassic Meh-meh!? from Flyover Country Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: In another castle
Meh-meh!?
#26225: Oct 23rd 2013 at 4:09:23 PM

Nintendog could somehow work, though. It'd be a hilarious character, too.

I personally believe the main reason we CAN'T add a Golden Retriever is because... of... them.

A stage is the next best thing, though. I'm happy with that.waii

🏳️‍⚧️she/her | Vio Rhyse Alberia

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