A plot can be discussed as long as the plot exists. And it's actually not much of an Excuse Plot like Super Mario Bros is. Especially in Brawl, which is not an Excuse Plot. It's still kind of weak, but is a pretty big plot with some fairly big twists. Which enough know. In addition, if people want to discuss the plot of a game, even if it's not a big one, they're free to do so. I'm actually feeling quite insulted here by your insistence that I'm not allowed to actually find specific things interesting or worth discussing. So please don't do that again.
As for gameplay modes, Boss Mode. I don't want anything beyond that. All the other good modes exist already or can be remade. Nothing noteworthy for Special For(or whatever the Special Mode will be referred to, possibly 4?) anymore either. I think they've covered everything overall, just need to spruce it up a bit.
By Boss Mode, the first player controls the boss. Speaking of, Giga Bowser was crap as a Final Smash. Make him a Boss again, especially of Adventure Mode. I don't know if Sakurai is going to do anything like Brawl's where your characters are pre-chosen or not(you don't need any cutscenes for this, just some dialogue at best, possibly by Master Hand, or even Missions similar to Event Mode. The idea is that he would give people Missions to go through, where specific characters could apply. And he talks during this, which makes sense for the creator of the characters. It's hard to say if he ever could naturally talk. Did he talk during his cameo with Crazy Hand in one of the Kirby games?)
![]()
Yes, please. That'd be a huge improvement. My thought is that to unlock this option, you need to make each Poke Ball/Assist Trophy appear. This is similar to unlocking Stage Selection(where you can choose what appears) by unlocking all the Stages(at least once. Assuming you can delete Stages to unlock them again like in Melee.)
edited 22nd Oct '13 11:25:59 PM by Irene
Shadow?Depends if Stickers come back. If they do, I'd rather not make them item drops. If they don't, sure, why not?
But I kind of find it easier to not make it a Luck-Based Mission to get them. It's tedious in some ways, but getting all the parts isn't severely long in practice.
Shadow?I present to you: the greatest new feature possible!
Get ready!
Here it is!
...
When you change the settings in Versus mode, the remembers what they were.
Also, two types of character trophies - one for in-universe information, the other for gameplay tips. When you unlock a character, there's a place in the main menu to see descriptions of their specials (as a kid, it took me forever to figure out what Peach's neutral-B was supposed to do). Events that combine Melee's variety with Brawl's adjustable difficulty settings - the perfect combo! A playback option in Training mode.
I hope this wasn't too hard to read.
"What's out there? What's waiting for me?"I guess he didn't watch the Ruby Spears Mega Man Cartoon. Also, the fact robots "can evolve" in some series, like Pokemon with Voltorb(compared to Magnemite, who just bunches them together. Although Magnezone is a different story)
Soooooo... no, not weird at all.
I don't really get how this means anything. Fighting games tend to have more than one of the same character all the time, but they are still the same person. Example: Cole and Evil Cole, Ben and Young Ben, Jin and Devil Jin, etc.
Kinda like how he didn't make a costume for everyone except Wario. Seriously, that's a very flawed point.
The majority of your argument consists of some ridiculous fan theory. How is that even credible to you argument? It's not. You're grasping at straws here.
You are grasping at straws again. I've read the interview. All he says is that he isn't a legit doctor. It's rather vague.
It's like that picture of the Villager and Nintendog that talks about them being deemed "not feasable", and you kept saying it meant "too peaceful" even though there was nothing there suggesting that at all, and considering how Villager showed up in Smash 4... what did Animal Crossing suddenly become "not peaceful"?
I don't think you understand how game development works. Something being stored as a different file doesn't mean the character is canonically a separate entity that is not the first one in any way.
Not-Debate Stuff
Yes, I too would just prefer normal Mewtwo use Psystrike for a Final Smash.
I'm pretty sure SSE has an Excuse Plot too.
That's why they are optional, silly.
edited 23rd Oct '13 2:51:45 AM by MagcargoMan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8yAjWvAqyM![]()
At least Darkstalkers got the personalities beautifully right. ...I admit I found the characters funny in that cartoon. Also, Mortal Kombat: Defenders of the Realm actually had characters who were extremely rude to the point of ridiculousness. To the point of bullying, and near sexism.(Raiden calling them ladies, as well as Jax's name for him being girlfriend may have been not so bad at that time, but nowadays they seem pretty darn offensive).
I laughed at the Lion Men(closest Mega Man will get to some [REDACTED]). Still found them better than the random Horror-based bots, though. Barely.
Yep, SSB is similar to other fighting games. Except, not really. Ever or at all. Wario only had those costumes because they are knowingly the same character and were planned that way. Dr. Mario never showed any intentions of being a costume. Meanwhile other characters have gotten costumes based upon others. Peach has a Daisy-based costume, and Nurse Peach(who does show up in the Dr. Mario games. This actually is pretty notable. He didn't find Nurse Peach worthy of being unique, but found Dr. Mario worthy of being his own character. Which does make a bit of sense, since he's the protagonist of his own series separate from the regular Mario one). And Dr. Mario not being legit isn't really that accurate. He has done legit practice specifically in Dr. Mario 64. It's just not a role that Mario would play. Which is probably because he doesn't view them as similar characters, which kinda makes sense, being that Mario and Dr. Mario do nothing similar at all. It's probably his only specifically unique role.
No, the costume point is anything but flawed. He's made references to other characters, which stay in Brawl. Not direct costumes either as well. Olimar has a costume based upon Louie, Lucas has a Claus-like costume. Pokemon Trainer has Leaf's colors in one, and looks like Brendan in another. Zelda herself even has costumes based upon her past forms, different actual people in the Zelda series alone. Link has Dark Link, a different person so far in the series(as does Toon Link and Dark Toon Link. In Melee, they had black costumes, which is a weaker reference. Since I doubt Sakurai knew about the black costume hacks at the time. Not that that's impossible, mind you). There's a lot more costume references to characters. However, one time we see a costume from a character that is specifically one of their direct forms, and not a reference, and that's Wario's. Yeah, not buying it whatsoever. Dr. Mario not being a costume is because Sakurai didn't want it to happen. This is pretty much how it went. Also confirmed in the Japanese page of the Smash Dojo Melee website. It's oddly worded due to Google Translate, but the actual gist is "Dr. Mario doesn't work as a costume because he's just a bit too different with his jumping and running. They are subtle, though." The other reason is actually "I want to put the music in." At the time, he clearly did think the music and playable character was needed. Here's your source.
So sorry to tell you, but yeah, him being a costume was unwanted by Sakurai entirely. And further reading is that he finds them different from each other. Whether or not he means people is irrelevant. They are not truly the same to him, and you need to accept this as what it is, because it's a fact. Perhaps somebody could better translate it, though.
And how do you think "not feasible for fighting" means anything for non-violent characters but... them being too peaceful? They wouldn't fight. There's very little "other" ways to interpret it.
Zelda/Sheik are treated as the same person in the actual game's storyline via the cutscene. Bowser and Giga Bowser too, although this is notable that the one you can play as apparently can't transform till Brawl. But nobody knows why that is. (could be that you're playing as a different Bowser in Brawl from Melee. Not impossible, since again, Master Hand created the world itself, or at least is heavily implied to have absolute control over it in some way. We know that much via the trophies) He also does put together the course in the first game's intro, and even puts a character on it, so he has some control over the characters in some way.
SSE is not an Excuse Plot. It's weak, but not an excuse one. Way too much happens for that to be considered. Multiple plot twists as is, actual characterization, an actual plot that isn't "hey, they're kidnapped, go save them", or something beyond simple. The plot isn't really a simple one. Not with the Man Behind the Man Behind the Man Behind the Man either. Bowser listens to Ganondorf who listens to Master Hand who is really Tabuu controlling it. That's a pretty big plot twist. Let's not forget the Ancient Minister's plot twist. Yeah, it's no Excuse Plot.
edited 23rd Oct '13 3:09:52 AM by Irene
Shadow?I like that idea, Anom. It's cool.
Except that's not what he's saying. He's saying to stop thinking too much into these outlandish Dr Mario theories.
Oh, for the love of...
Because those are palatte swaps.
Can't you just accept that you're wrong about this. You keep saying how other characters have palette swaps and how this somehow means anything. Wario got a costume because... okay I don't know why, but he's the only character in Brawl who has two costumes that can equally be considered his "main clothes" in his actual games. Overalls for Wario Land (and Mario games), Biker Gear for Wario Ware.
He says "But, Doctor Mario, because it is set as the same person and Mario, you can not reckless too." Pretty sure that means he's the same person.
Honestly, Nintendog being in the picture was the most obvious clue as to what it meant. Because it just couldn't fight. How would a Nintendog use a gun? Or pick up a crate? It's not feasible. He's not built to fight. The reason Ivysaur can do it is because of the vine he has can substitute for arms in some cases.
Villager is from a series where you can't really do anything combatty. He has tools, sure, but they are stuff like Fishing Rods and Butterfly Nets. The only tool he had that was actually a feasible weapon was a axe (and maybe the shovel), but that would be really out of character for him. At first, you wouldn't be able to think of moves that wouldn't be a complete joke. But then they could have had a spark of inspiration, and made those joke moves lethal. Not to mention Sakurai said in a Smash 4 interview that Villager, who was planned for Brawl, was removed for "because he wasn't suited for battle." There is a chance they couldn't figure out his moves, or they couldn't figure out how his moves would work.
It makes more sense. By Smash 4 they could have figured out to get him to work better. If we use the no-evidence definition of "too peaceful", then New Leaf must have been a pretty unpeaceful game or the Villager suddenly became a non-peaceful person...
Maybe that's because they are the same people in the game that Shiek appears in?
EDIT: Okay, have you even read the page for Excuse Plot? "An Excuse Plot is not necessarily a poorly written, minimalistic, or stupid storyline, only one that has been written to obviously showcase something else."
It's pretty obvious that SSE is an excuse for all the characters to meet up and beat up stuff in side-scrolling levels.
edited 23rd Oct '13 3:17:59 AM by MagcargoMan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8yAjWvAqyMSSE is definitely not an Excuse Plot. It's an overarching plot entirely, and we all know this. It's vague, but big. Have you read the page? Because SSE is not some simple thing. Simple things don't have giant plot twists, and a freakin' Red Herring of who the real boss is. Man Behind the Man is a huge plot twist, especially used multiple times. Sorry, but that's a load of bullcrap.
And no, those are costumes. Costumes and Palette Swaps are not exactly the same thing. They're even called costumes as well. Palette Swaps are nothing but color changes entirely(which is not applicable to ever costume change in the series) while the costumes are full out changes that aren't just colors. Or shades/tints of the color. Even so, both terms are entirely accurate. Also, the Blood Falcon is a costume change as it even says Blood Falcon on the back. That just isn't a Palette Swap here. That's a reference to a specific character.(as is the Daisy reference) Either way, yes, some of them are costumes and not just a Palette Swap.
Except I already specified that whether Sakurai considers him a unique person or not is irrelevant to what I cited. What I did say which was ignored is that he specifically wanted him as a separate playable character and should not be a costume. Again, this is Sakurai's own intentions, at least according to an official website. This is really not a debatable point anymore. Sakurai intended for Dr. Mario to not be a costume of Mario and to be a playable character. Stop acting like it's anything but, because that will never be the case. Until Dr. Mario becomes a costume for Mario, there will never be a point he'll be anything but a separate slot as intended officially. Brawl is iffier, but it's highly doubtful he'd be a costume considering what Sakurai intended. Also, perhaps you forgot to read the part right after, my actual point. "To say because changing the costume, because it is strange or run as fast as times suddenly, jumping ability when or halved." He did not want him to be a costume. Considering Mario didn't have a costume during Brawl, despite work being done on Dr. Mario in the game's data, it's pretty hard to believe he was going to suddenly be one. Especially when Sakurai makes it clear he wasn't meant to be one. It's the reality of his; He'll make him a costume maybe. But until it does happen, there's actually no good reason to believe he ever was going to to make him a costume. At least according to his own beliefs which are shown.
Also, yes, they were too peaceful. At the time. Sakurai can change his mind, you know. Let's also remember that in 64, Master Hand had a Side B. For some reason, he didn't want to add them to the other characters movesets.(albeit, pressing Side B with Link can make some differences, so he may have intended it from the start to have a function) Come Melee, he clearly thought it was better to give everyone a Side B. He also made it so Link/Young Link/Samus' Side B had hidden properties, depending how it was used. Smashing it made it go a bit differently from simply just pressing Side B. Either way, yes, Side B was intended from the start, and it was hinted at being meant for everyone with how Link's worked. Of course, this is just an example. Another one is Pit, who was apparently meant for the game multiple times. Supposedly Jigglypuff took the first spot(although it's more likely a moveset things and that the wings were too hard to animate). Then there was Ice Climbers instead of Pit, for an unknown reason, unlike last time, where movesets make sense.(possibly to introduce a true dual character, and possibly because again, wings are hard to animate) Then came Brawl. King Dedede follows the same thing. His biggest reason for not being in as that in 64 he didn't want to oversaturate the game with his own characters. Melee was choose 6 awesome characters(who were ALL major characters in some way), or spend time working on one. No surprise he went with the clones, since that's the only reason we had a shot at getting Ganondorf at the time.(and possibly the only reason he came back for Brawl, and seeing as how he barely de-cloned him, the chances of him being a unique addition in Brawl is probably unlikely) Also, this
does actually confirm the only reason he ever got in was because of being a clone. He had no plans for him till the clone thing came up.
edited 23rd Oct '13 3:46:01 AM by Irene
Shadow?And I never said he was planned for a costume.
And that character data doesn't specifically mean much. It's not like Mewtwo who actually had a lot for evidence for being playable, such as the narrator saying his name. Sakurai might have simply imported data from Melee for some reason.
No it isn't. Supspace's plot consists of this:
In a word where trophies fight because we won't let you fight as the real characters for some reason, Ancient Minister shows up and blows up a stadium, because the bad guys want to pull the world into Subspace. Heaps of characters show up out of nowhere at different points because whatever. We find out that Ganon and Bowser are taking orders from Master Hand. Ancient Minister is actually R.O.B. and he doesn't want to be bad. Characters all team up and fight bad guys. Generic Doomsday Villain Tabuu shows up and turns out he was controlling Master Hand. He murders everyone and then Dedede, Luigi, Ness and Kirby (). Sonic comes out of nowhere cripples Tabuu's wings. Tabuu is defeating and places are restored except for isle of ancients. Also, Dedede was helping characters but we don't know this without the website material informing us.
Except it was. You kept saying how he's apparently a separate character. And Sakurai just said there he wasn't.
Not only is that still not proof of what was said in the image, but you also completely ignored the Nintendog part...
Pretty sure hacking/using Game Sharks to play as an NPC who does not follow the same rules as other characters doesn't mean much regarding those who are playable and their moveset.
I don't see why though. Two characters for one series of that size isn't that much.
And you know this exactly how?
And he said this regarding Melee. Like you said yourself "Sakurai can change his mind, you know." Considering how Nintendo announces Brawl without him initially, we don't even though if he planned a third smash at that point in time. And even if he did, how do we know he didn't want to put Ganon in that?
EDIT:
Except Dr Mario wasn't established to jump or run differently until he made him playable in Smash.
Because in Melee there are no Final Smashes. And there wasn't really a way to let you play as him as part of Bowser's moveset in Melee without him being broken.
I'm sorry, what? In SSE, the characters who aren't the bad guys are all practically the same. Generic, heroic people who don't do much and most of them lose their actual characterisation from their games. Really, only ones with a distinct personality is Lucas (being afraid/sad most of the time), Luigi (Flanderised to the point that he's afraid of a Waddle Dee), Wario being himself, and Dedede (Hugs for everyone). Heck, even Bowser and Ganondorf aren't that different in SSE personality-wise. Except for when Bowser gets all hot-headed and beats up Ganon's trophy.
Textures count as palette swaps. Costumes count as things that actually change the model (and no, not something as insignificant as changing Peach's ear-rings). Overalls Wario is Smash's only true alternate costume.
Also, palette swaps that reference other characters are still palette swaps.
edited 23rd Oct '13 4:36:46 AM by MagcargoMan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8yAjWvAqyMReally happy with more 3DS version pics.
◊ It's kind of adorable, but the more I look at Mega Man, the more unsettling his stare seems. Like almost emotionless, which runs counter to his character.
@Palette swaps VS costume swaps: I'm trying to stay out of the heat of things, but...
Palette swap: changes the texture of the character. Costume swap: changes the model of the character.
As cool as the Blood Falcon and NES R.O.B. costumes* are, even if they both have an extra detail other costumes don't have (Blood Falcon logo and replacing the text on R.O.B.'s base), they're still just palette swaps. Wario, Pikachu, Pichu, and Jiggs are the only characters who have gotten an actual alternate costume, to my knowledge.
But this electric growth on your back, I did not put there.
edited 23rd Oct '13 4:27:40 AM by NesClassic
🏳️⚧️she/her | Vio Rhyse AlberiaWhat is it with TV Tropes and dismissing debates as "heated arguments"? I've haven't made any personal attacks or anything. All I've done is pointed out the holes in a heavily flawed argument.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8yAjWvAqyMI never said it was an argument. I just said it was heated. Ahaha.
My actual reason for staying out is probably along the lines of "tl;dr". The bus ride to school is only so long, after all.
🏳️⚧️she/her | Vio Rhyse AlberiaThank you for confirming that it isn't an Excuse Plot. An Excuse Plot isn't that big, dude. Those twists are too big. It's weaker than most, but still a fairly big plot. There's a reason why none of the Mario RPG are counted under Excuse Plot. It's only the first two games that can legitimately count.
And the fact that Ganondorf is still a clone in in Brawl does show that him being a clone is still likely if he wasn't in Melee. There's really no proof he ever had a chance to be unique. At all. You're grasping at straws here if you think he had any chance of being unique.
Also, no, the chances of Dr. Mario being a costume is still unlikely at this point, since he was specifically made playable because Sakurai doesn't want him to be a costume. And yet isn't in Brawl. As Sakurai never talked about him in Brawl. Thus, the only logical thing is to go with his current unchanged at any time, stance, that Dr. Mario was meant to be a full character instead. We also know he was added as a character was for the music too, specifically said and all.
And congratulations on missing the point of what I said about the Side B. It's programmed into the first game, so he may have intended it for others besides Master Hand. I did say "may", and considering Link's Boomerang acts differently if you do a Side Smash or just a regular B tap does show there is programming to treat them as different inputs, which makes what I'm saying correct here. There's a reasonable chance he had more plans for Side B beyond Link and Master Hand. It is an input in the game officially. It's not irrelevant as a command, obviously.
Sakurai has a huge ego. We kind of know this. Him not overdoing his series actually makes sense. And why yes, I found Pichu awesome. Like everybody else in Melee, bar none. He may have been intentionally bad(except against Giga Bowser where he's near impossible to hit minus the Bowser Bomb), but that doesn't mean he was an unplayable trash character, which actually he wasn't. He's pretty easy to use and win with if you practice hard enough. You don't need items either.
And my god, will you start differentiating what I say about Dr. Mario character position? Because I've said multiple times that Dr. Mario is a different character for storyline purposes, which also applies for everyone in single player(only exception could be the Kirby/Yoshi teams. Yoshi Team is just random colors, though. Where as Kirby team are programmed as different characters separately from Kirby to a degree. But those are respectively iffy. However, Metal Mario and Giant Donkey Kong are indeed treated differently. 1Player Mode in SSB 64 is the Story Mode. Meaning that each appearance is of a separate character through its storyline. And then come Adventure Mode, the next story mode, and both Giant DK and Metal Mario(and then Metal Luigi) appear again. Trying to treat them as unique characters, which people would think until you know the programming.
You're confusing storyline, which Dr. Mario has nothing to do with Mario, and Sakurai saying Mario and Dr. Mario are similar, which is not the same thing. Also, considering Dr. Mario's main overall theme made it back, him being playable is not unbelievable at all. As are the rest of the Forbidden 7. Likewise, Dr. Mario shared the same fanfare with the regular Mario characters. Doesn't mean much that he had none. He was found in the playable character file list, so he was going to be playable at one point in development anyway. No, he wasn't found in some random area, just among the playable character list. Along with the other 39 playable Brawl characters.(and the NPC's. To note, Pokemon Trainer cannot actually be played at any point in the game, nor had a playable file. They all were under his Pokemon. However, Giga Bowser is a regular playable character file like Bowser is) So yes, I find I hard to believe he wasn't meant to be playable like the others, you know, considering his data is found in the playable and NPC fighter list.(and yes, they're all fighters, planned, playable, or NPC)
There's also a wide difference from removing an entire playable character and turning them into a crappy costume from not even starting a character because they're not feasible for fighting. Villager and Dr. Mario's situation just aren't comparable, dude. That's a severe grasp of straws. Also, Pichu wasn't entirely wanted at first. Of the only data findable, he wanted a G/S character, but nobody was feasible. He originally passed upon Pichu because he was a clone. He also did want Marth, but had King Dedede as a backup. Also, from the same information, Wario wasn't added because at the time he considered him a Mario character and didn't want 3 new ones. But this is the tricky part; He looked back at Pichu and found him a good reason to make clone, and being a heavily promoted Pokemon among G/S(again, the other ones weren't feasible, but a clone of the main character is kind of easy to program, ou know?) made him the ideal choice. Which also is why we had more clones(this time playable, although he did mention among the Pichu Japanese Profile on the website about Mario and Luigi being clones at one time, so he didn't seem that put off by having them in). My guess for Wario making it later on was the factor that he liked Dr. Mario and the music, so that was a more ideal choice. It also was the better option, IMO, since Wario got unique come Brawl when he had far more stuff and a series actually not essentially Super Mario Land Version 2(Wario Land is inspired by Super Mario Land quite a bit. There are differences, like less vehicles, of course. However, Wario Ware is far more separated from the Mario gameplay). Let me link you to the data; It's an interesting read.
Now, while some of it is already confirmed, I do wish I could find a better citing of this information. It's pretty believable, as it all shows pretty well in practice and most of the rest of the cited stuff just happens to be outright accurate.
edited 23rd Oct '13 4:53:00 AM by Irene
Shadow?No, it's because he imported him from Melee. Grasping at straws for thinking Ganon had a chance at being unique? Wow, it's like you don't even know Ganondorf at all, or that you assume Sakurai knows nothing about him.
Read my posts. I NEVER said he was planned as a costume. Stop saying it as if I did.
Two Kirby characters in Smash 64 would not be overdoing. At that point in the series, there was five platformers and five spin-offs. Having 10 games (and at least five of them main series) is certainly enough to warrant a second character.
How does that mean anything? The Balloon Fighter and Mach Rider songs returned. Lip's Theme was added. Adding the music does not mean mean the character from the same game will be included.
So you mention it must mean he was intended to be playable because he's in among the character list. And then you immediately point out how there are characters listed there who aren't playable themselves.
Good thing I compared them then. Because I didn't.
Except he did add three new ones. He added Peach, Bowser and Dr Mario. He could have went Peach, Bowser and Wario.
That's a really biased development choice. Wario is way more important to the Mario franchise than Dr Mario. Although now that you mention it, he would have been a lot different, so maybe it was for the best that he wasn't in Melee.
Although he could have changed his series into Wario Ware in Brawl and change some of his moves if he wanted to, if he did make it into Melee.
I appreciate that but I'm also annoyed that he doesn't think Ganondorf deserved better.
...
Also thank you for not addressing the Nintendog point yet again.
edited 23rd Oct '13 5:23:44 AM by MagcargoMan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8yAjWvAqyMNintendog wasn't any more relevant as the Villager point. Same answer. Neither were feasible characters. So he didn't make them playable. Elements of them, being an Assist Trophy and Stage still exist, though.
And no, I'm saying if Dr. Mario were to be playable, it'd be as his own slot again.(or at the worst, it'd be like Samus and Zero Suit Samus, minus the ability to go into eachother. They'd be as different as they were in Melee, which actually they played pretty differently. But no clone played extremely similar, so that's not much worth saying)
And yes, I do hold that Ganondorf being a clone in Brawl if he came in is pretty likely, if he had a chance to come in in that game without making it into Melee. I am not saying that link is definitely accurate, as I noted before. But Sakurai refusing to make him unique in Brawl and only slightly de-cloning him, even possibly less than Mario and Luigi from 64 to Melee, does seem to show he doesn't find uniqueness for Ganondorf all that important. But then again, I doubt Sakurai cares so much as movesets as showing off the character with moves that are possible for them.(absolutely none of Ganondorf's moves are unfitting in either game, but that should be obvious for a big burly magical fighter to use... Warlock Punch and Wizard's Foot. I actually found Gerudo Dragon to not fit his slower style all that well, so Flame Choke was a far better choice. The name is good, though)
If Sakurai says that there were no feasible characters besides Pichu(in the movies), then who am I to argue with that? Pichu did have a movie starring himself as the Pichu Bros. What other feasible G/S characters had their own movie? Specifically?(Shorts are movies, keep in mind). Feraligatr and Scizor are not stars in any movies. Lugia was, who isn't feasible. Unoun and the Legendary Beasts made major appearances... who got Pokeball'd instead. We know he heavily looks to the movies. Also, so far, as we've seen, he doesn't show any time he holds one starter over another at all(by that I mean Starter Trios, and at best, he might like one specific of the trio, but seems to want them together so far), Pikachu excluded(but he's the Mascot of Pokemon). If the Pokemon Trainer idea is real, it would explain Brawl, and Melee is on a smaller disc. Considering Brawl's slowdown, him waiting is justified. Also, that would mean he'd be using a non-1st Gen Starter Trio lineup, who are immensely popular overall.
As for Wario, he gave him his own symbol in Brawl, so yes, he does seem to think he's more important than Ganondorf.(it helps that Ganondorf and Young Link were the fourth/fifth characters, since Zelda/Sheik existed in the plans and weren't clones) I'm not sure why this is honestly hard to believe. Look at how often Villains didn't much appear. Also, among all the villains, Ganondorf is the only one that's evil all the time, while the others have shown to not be horribly evil or sometimes good or nice. Maybe he likes heroes or anti-villains(in other words, partial heroes) more? This also explains why Wolf is more unique from Fox, and not really a clone(he shares two specials in common, and almost all of his moves are unique in Brawl, so...).
And he only added Dr. Mario after he decided clones are okay. He wasn't add to buff up the Mario roster, but because he wanted the music in and because he thought the character was worthy of his own slot. Even if the first sentence of this paragraph is hard to say, the next part is actually accurate according to the actual main Japanese Melee site.
I'm also just going to say right now that clones are a major part of the series and that no, Sakurai isn't going to remove the idea of keeping them in. He's made that clear in his actions before. In other words, since we know clones are a permanent mainstay, it's kind of silly to even bother talking about them leaving.(Also, we already know for a fact that Sakurai didn't consider Ganondorf till he could be a clone, which is why I think that Ganondorf wasn't an obvious choice for Brawl if he wasn't in Melee. Albeit, we have no idea what would've happened, but it does make sense)
Oh, and you should know something about the character list; All of those are working characters that could be playable naturally with working controls. Bosses are in a separate section because they don't have regular controls using the A and other similar moves(save B for the Alloys) as is. They don't screw up the game. They're in the Fighter data, which means they were meant to be playable, or an NPC like the Alloys at worst(this is unlikely, since Dixie Kong was meant to be playable, and outside of Toon Zelda/Toon Sheik and the Pra_Mai, who could've been Plusle & Minun, so Dr. Mario, Roy, and Mewtwo not being meant to be playable despite being playable in the original game? Who are we trying to fool? Of course they were. Duh. That's why they're in the Fighter data. I mean, seriously, man. Let's not be daft. Yes, they were planned to be playable at one time. Only the Alloys are in the Fighter data but unplayable. But they also are usable with the same type of controls as the other Fighters like Wario, which is why they're in that area. This is the same thing in 64, as all 27 Fighters, of which only 12 can be normally played as, have the same overall controls).
And once again, Sakurai has a big ego. If he thinks two Kirby fighters is too much for his series, so be it. Likewise, he didn't need to add King Dedede to make either 64 or Melee better. They were amazing games, as was Brawl too. Brawl is the first time he really poured on his unique characters. A lot of people were not happy about that, as we know that people have complained about the SSE using mostly Sakurai-made characters.(the worst part is they're mostly expies of Kirby enemies, making this even more egregious)
Also, no, I disagree with Wario being more important than Dr. Mario at that time. Wario's only games with Super Mario Land-like games. Meanwhile, Dr. Mario was from an extremely popular series that wasn't like a previous Mario game. Wario didn't separate from the Mario series till Wario Ware, where he truly become his own guy. He also was constantly a clone in the Mario Party games. Where as Dr. Mario was never a clone of Mario outside of Melee. Meaning he did more unique stuff than Wario. Wario's most unique thing was a shoulder charge at best. The problem is, a lot of his Wario Land stuff at the time weren't very different from Super Mario Land's moves. Wario wasn't unique enough to be as notable as a guy with entirely different gameplay. However, since in a game where Mario and Dr. Mario would be playable as separate characters at the same time, they don't show much difference in theory, since one is technically Mario in a costume. But Dr. Mario had something Mario didn't, Mega Vitamins. Since this is a different move from the regular Fireballs, that was more than enough to make a unique character for Sakurai.(unique meaning his own slot and different properties. A clone Dr. Mario may be, but he does not play the same)
edited 23rd Oct '13 6:00:17 AM by Irene
Shadow?

I'd love to see a better stage builder, though I feel like they might not even include the stage builder in the new games.
Insert witty 'n clever quip here.