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Lionheart0 Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#25326: Oct 2nd 2013 at 8:27:58 AM

So with Pokemon X and Y coming out and the latest Charizard reveal, it's definitely a lock for Mewtwo (with its final smash being it's mega form) and Pokemon Trainer Red (with Mega Charizard possibly?) being in this game.

Still pulling for Bayonetta.

Customer Since: Sep, 2009
#25327: Oct 2nd 2013 at 8:34:47 AM

It's not really a lock for the Trainer; his Final Smash consisted of all of his Pokemon and having only one of them get a new Final Smash kind of undermines the purpose of his mechanic (the intention for all three of his Pokemon to function as a team). The best thign the Trainer has going for him is being a vet from the last game and his appearance in Origins (where Mega Charizard X made an appearance apparently).

Nor is it a lock for Mewtwo since he has two Mega forms, which either means he won't get a Mega form as a FS or they'll find a way for him to choose what form he becomes upon smashing a Smash Ball.

Basically, it's still up in the air. They both have revelance, but I wouldn't call it "locked" yet (I expect Trainer and Mewtwo to return at least, but not necessarily use the Mega Evo mechanic).

edited 2nd Oct '13 8:36:29 AM by Customer

Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#25328: Oct 2nd 2013 at 9:31:35 AM

I take my eyes off for a day to study for tests and holy shit Sonic's in. Funny how that works.

Great to see that he's back, especially at what I'm assuming is early in the development time (at least he isn't jumping in last-minute). I do like how he's got a little more personality in his moves, and the updated art style has been good on him, though the eternally-pasted smirk might be verging a bit towards Uncanny Valley.

Regarding Pokemon, I think Mewtwo with Mega Evolution Final Smash and Pokemon Trainer are very likely. The former's the best way I can think of to bring back a favorite while simultaneously promoting the new game, and I do think the latter had a very interesting fighting style, even if it wasn't as effective in practice as hoped.

Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#25329: Oct 2nd 2013 at 9:36:16 AM

Mewtwo has two Mega Evolutions. That makes the whole thing a lot harder overall. Trainer is no lock-in either.

[up][up] This. While there's definitely reasons to see why PT could come back, like the character his design upon getting a new Anime appearance, that really doesn't mean he's likely.

Mewtwo was planned for Brawl, and is notable again. Same with Lucario. Jigglypuff has a new type. All of them seem easy to come back. However, only half of PT is notable again. PT's model is appearing in the anime, Charizard has two mega evolutions... but that's it. Ivy and Squirtle got nothing.

Shadow?
Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#25330: Oct 2nd 2013 at 9:44:29 AM

Ivysaur and Squirtle didn't have anything back at Brawl either. Hell, at the time Charizard didn't have anything either.

From what I can tell, the main reason Sakurai added the Pokemon Trainer into Brawl was to try something new. Notability is certainly a factor, but I doubt it's the be-all-end-all for the decision making process. Besides, we don't even know if the Pokemon Trainer will even keep the same Pokemon if he were to come back.

Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#25331: Oct 2nd 2013 at 9:55:57 AM

Like I said, Ivy and Squirtle got nothing. And Squirtle did have a previous appearance in Smash, being a Trophy and a part of Poke Floats. Ivy is only mentioned in two Trophies, of Bulbasaur and Venusaur.

And if showing off Charizard and a Gen 1-type Trainer, sticking with the other Starters made sense. Squirtle was more notable than Bulbasaur, especially in the Anime. Ivysaur showed up as well in the Anime, with the most noted Bulbasaur almost evolving, so it makes sense to choose Ivy since he was the only one who almost showed up through an onscreen Evolution process.

To put it another way, the exact line made sense if you pay attention to the Anime. Anyway, Sakurai might. I wouldn't mind seeing Pichu back as the base Pokemon. But I got no idea what could be used for the middle evolution.

Shadow?
Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#25332: Oct 2nd 2013 at 10:06:56 AM

Honestly, I think it was a toss-up as to which evolutions were used for the starters. The important bit was that they were the Kanto starters, and that they showed off various stages of evolution.

Not so much a toss-up for Charizard, because wings, but it could have as easily been Bulbasaur and Wartortle. Ivysaur, I think, was because they needed one of them to be second-stage, and they'd already decided on Squirtle and Charizard.

Personally, I would have picked Blastoise as the stage 3, but that's just me.

edited 2nd Oct '13 10:08:23 AM by Enlong

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Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#25333: Oct 2nd 2013 at 10:14:49 AM

Not really a toss-up at all.

Squirtle was prominent in the Anime, never even attempting to evolve once, was a Poke Float and a Trophy in Melee. Ivysaur didn't have much, but he nearly appeared on Ash's team at one time. Key term being nearly. Bulbasaur barely had a Trophy in Melee, but no appearances beyond that. Ivysaur was the better choice for the middle evolution as Squirtle and Charizard were more prominent in both Smash and the Anime as is. And most prominent, specifically in those forms.

The line was pretty much the easiest to figure out with any research. I really couldn't expect anything less. It didn't help that he went with the Gen 1 Protagonist for the design, who, what do you know, Ash is based upon. Coincidence? Really doubting it after he confirmed he fully looks at the Anime and Movies. It fits too much into place by this point.

Shadow?
Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#25334: Oct 2nd 2013 at 10:19:08 AM

The anime is a source he looks at, yes. There are other things he can use, but of all his sources, the anime is one of them.

If he chose Squirtle based on the species' relative popularity, I still think Ivysaur was chosen because it was the only one left for the remaining slot, not because it almost appeared in the anime. Charizard is more popular than his other forms and has wings. Squirtle is more popular than Wartortle, and Ivysaur filled the remaining spot.

edited 2nd Oct '13 10:20:36 AM by Enlong

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Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#25335: Oct 2nd 2013 at 10:25:00 AM

Squirtle was not hyper popular as is. It's pretty much appearances here.

And him and Bulbasaur are practically equal in the Anime as is. Just one was going to evolve, meaning only one choice made sense. The regular SSB stuff didn't mean too much, though. Charizard was a Pokeball for 2 games straight, so not many thought he'd be playable at all. It also proves that being a previous item or trophy doesn't mean jack for one's chances. Olimar was also a Trophy in Melee.

Shadow?
Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#25336: Oct 2nd 2013 at 10:30:43 AM

If you say so. We appear to be approaching this from unchangeable viewpoints, so I guess that's as far as it goes.

I'll just say that, if Squirtle was chosen due to being more popular in the anime than Wartortle (thanks to those glasses, no doubt), then Ivysaur would be simple process of elimination.

edited 2nd Oct '13 10:34:53 AM by Enlong

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Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#25337: Oct 2nd 2013 at 10:34:54 AM

Moving on, I'm still trying to find a good picture of what Pit would look like if he was on the N64.

I'm making a fun roster based upon SSB 64, but only with characters who actually are in the game, or rumored, or were meant to be. Besides the full 27 characters(Bosses, Polygons, Originals), there's Peach, Pit, Meowth(all 3 rumored), Wolf(a random rumor, and I want the villain anyway), Bowser, King Dedede, Mewtwo(not rumored, were planned). That's a nice 34. Note how all of them except Pit have an N64 appearance.

Of course, Unseen64 just happens to be down, so checking if there was ever a planned Kid Icarus N64 game is out of the question. Which really is pissing me off. And no luck on Google Search, since it's mostly Uprising pictures, which don't work too well. They look too updated. I did find an interesting Wii U concept, where Pit looks essentially like Kratos(minus the scars), but that doesn't even look kind of like Pit. So very little luck here. I want it to somewhat match the style of the other characters.

[up] Squirtle and Bulbasaur were both equally popular in the Anime. Neither was more prominent. It has zip to do with the fact their other ones appeared. The fact is, Squirtle was never going to evolve, not even attempted to. Bulbasaur was the only choice by that point. The other factor is, as I noted, Squirtle was more notable in SSB. The other thing is that Wartortle and Ivysaur are very similar to their earlier counterparts, meaning neither makes more sense than the other. There had to be some smaller factors, and popularity wasn't really one of them. Bulbasaur was with Ash even longer, so that didn't much help. About the only thing that was notable is who nearly evolved, as the rest were pretty much equal as points. There was only one ultimate difference between the two, and that's that one almost evolved. Literally.

edited 2nd Oct '13 10:37:33 AM by Irene

Shadow?
Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#25338: Oct 2nd 2013 at 10:35:58 AM

What about his Melee trophy?

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Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#25339: Oct 2nd 2013 at 10:39:23 AM

Doesn't fit in. Pit's Trophy isn't blocky enough. He looks more blocky in some of his Uprising appearances, no less.

I found a really low quality picture which helps, but he still looks too... updated. That's why I said it wasn't easy. [lol]

Shadow?
doctrainAUM White Hindu from New Jersey Since: Aug, 2010
White Hindu
#25340: Oct 2nd 2013 at 10:42:07 AM

@Irene: Neither Ness nor Samus ever appeared in an N64 game.

"What's out there? What's waiting for me?"
32_Footsteps Think of the mooks! from Just north of Arkham Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Think of the mooks!
#25341: Oct 2nd 2013 at 10:43:02 AM

Well, it'd need a bunch of work, but what about a reskin of Brian, the main character of Quest64? It's roughly the right build, always carrying an object, and even has a hairstyle that'd be easily enough converted to something like Pit's hair. There'd need to be several tweaks (like how to turn that cloak into wings), but it's a possible starting point.

Reminder: Offscreen Villainy does not count towards Complete Monster.
Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#25342: Oct 2nd 2013 at 10:44:02 AM

[up][up] They appeared in SSB 64 and have models. That's why I can use their pictures. It has to be a N64 picture or as near identical as possible.

The fact they already appeared in the game means making a picture for them is kind of easy. wink Or re-use the old ones. I already got Giant D.K. finished. I got a picture of all the Polygons. I just have to figure out a good picture for Master Hand, but that shouldn't be too hard.

[up] Interesting... oh, and Quest64 doesn't wikiword. I only need to show his "head", to note. I'm just putting their roster icons on it. I don't plan to show n64 models whatsoever. I'm not going that far. I'm using the old roster maker from many pages back for this. This is the only picture I found of a somewhat blocky Pit.

edited 2nd Oct '13 10:46:08 AM by Irene

Shadow?
Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#25343: Oct 2nd 2013 at 10:49:43 AM

[up][up][up][up][up][up] sorry for continuing to say something. I knew it couldn't have helped. Especially since I remain unconvinced either way. It could have been based entirely on anime cues, and who almost evolved, or it could have been based solely on Charizard having wings, and the other one being a coin flip. Heck, it could be something else entirely that I don't know of. I don't know which is true, or which is more likely.

And I don't think I ever will.

Sorry for stringing out this conversation, and sorry for wasting time acting like the more mature one. You don't need to waste any more time trying to convince me. I don't think even I can do that for this topic.

Anyway.

You could probably use Licas, what with Mother 3 initially being an N64 project.

edited 2nd Oct '13 10:50:44 AM by Enlong

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Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#25344: Oct 2nd 2013 at 10:57:55 AM

Picture of Licas?

And remember, for some god awful reason, Unseen64 is down(you know, the one time where I actually need it, right? tongue)

I can't buy coin tosses with Sakurai, since he tends to plan things out specifically. He doesn't always go with his plans, though, for one reason or another. Ness was not guaranteed in Melee. Sakurai officially planned him to be replaced by Lucas, but Earthbound 64/Mother 3 fell through, and well... there you go. What became odd is Sakurai stated on Ness' page that he imagines him as "quite the veteran by now". Makes me wonder how important Ness ultimately is. Obviously, he's in Smash for good now, but that becomes odd considering his plans for Melee.

Shadow?
Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#25345: Oct 2nd 2013 at 11:04:26 AM

Ness is an odd beast. If you'd asked me what moves he'd have before 64... I'd have had no answer , due to knowing nothing about Earthbound or Smash.

But if I had known, I'd have posited a moveset involving Teleport, Hypnosis, and maybe a slingshot. Not Paula's moves.

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Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#25346: Oct 2nd 2013 at 11:10:50 AM

Well, Sakurai likes to represent the games with the movesets, not just the character, so it makes sense.

Just look at Peach's moves. Sports games, a subtle reference to Super Mario RPG with her Frying Pan...

But yeah, need that picture. smile

Shadow?
beorc Ridley and Ridley from hither and yon Since: Sep, 2009 Relationship Status: I know
Ridley and Ridley
#25347: Oct 2nd 2013 at 11:14:05 AM

There's Lucas on the left. I couldn't find any good images with just him.

Welcome to th:|
Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#25348: Oct 2nd 2013 at 11:23:02 AM

[up][up] thing is, those are all things Peach can do. What Ness has is the equivalent of Peach breathing fire, or using Mallow's weather magic.

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Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#25349: Oct 2nd 2013 at 11:26:38 AM

I think Squirtle was more popular than Bulbasaur because of the Squirtle Squad.

Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#25350: Oct 2nd 2013 at 11:30:25 AM

Those sunglasses have power.

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