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Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#145126: Sep 26th 2022 at 4:35:40 PM

Echoes are just easier to keep separate at that point. Like, the only outright poor one is Daisy, and she barely needs anything to be slightly more unique. Richter at least can say that. The only Echoes I honestly see leaving are if their main version leaves. Otherwise, too damn easy to keep and pad out the roster. Reducing them to alts is pointless and only further annoys players. Being separate is a good thing.

Clones and Semi-Clones take a lot more to make to begin with, which the only Echo even close to that is Ken, and he wouldn't go anywhere if Ryu is staying.

Shadow?
FGHIK Since: Aug, 2013
#145127: Sep 26th 2022 at 4:54:43 PM

There's also always the possibility of licensing fees being seen as too high for 3rd party echo fighters. But yeah, I'm generally optimistic that cuts will be kept to a minimum. Because Smash Bros sells on its roster.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#145128: Sep 26th 2022 at 5:06:45 PM

The only characters I was thinking would be likely to get tossed, like Cloud and Sora, later got made safer by Sephiroth and that recent interview.

ObligatorySarcasm Since: Aug, 2016
#145129: Sep 26th 2022 at 5:48:43 PM

[up]Unless Sora's continued presence in Smash somehow conflicts with Nomura's canon.

-Witty line-
MyFinalEdits Delete message from Parts Unknown (Spin-off Series) Relationship Status: Cast away
Delete message
#145130: Sep 26th 2022 at 6:15:28 PM

I'll be sad if Daisy gets cut outright (she's one of my mains in SSBU), but I'll be happy if she's still an alt version of Peach like Alph or the Koopalings (I don't buy the "Peach is mechanically the same as Daisy so just use her lol" excuse, because I don't care about Peach as a character, even if that's the least important thing in fighting games).

135 -> 180 -> 273 -> 191 -> 188 -> 230 -> 300 -> 311
Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#145131: Sep 26th 2022 at 6:30:23 PM

Literally Daisy only has... a few different hurtboxes due to animations. They really don't have any tangible differences. Richter is almost the same, but his B move's element is different, which affects items.

Dark Samus having Electricity instead of other elements is the only one to come into play among these first three mentioned. And only if using Spirits.

The other Echoes have some mechanical differences and/or ability changes to some degree enough that they stand out better, or at least a new move.

Anyway, yeah, people want to play as the character, not simply the moveset. Though the moveset also is pretty clearly part of the characters' appeal, which is why no moveset is massively changed. Instead we get a new character. While some are borderline in many ways(Pit, Link going into Ultimate in particular, Bowser), it's not all that common even then.

Shadow?
omega2900 Jemerald of Brainrot from The Midwest, where everything is MID! (Ten years in the joint) Relationship Status: In my bunk
Jemerald of Brainrot
#145132: Sep 26th 2022 at 6:33:53 PM

I'm probably reading this wrong, but I feel like this will lead to a discussion that will turn into Super Smash Functions.

Get taxed. Idiot.
ultimate_life_form Since: Aug, 2019
#145133: Sep 26th 2022 at 6:47:53 PM

SPEAKING of movesets...

can sonic please get a new moveset already

ObligatorySarcasm Since: Aug, 2016
#145134: Sep 26th 2022 at 7:09:47 PM

Character is typically seen as priority over moveset. Corrin is often derided as boring despite a very unique moveset. This is because he is more moveset than character.

-Witty line-
powerpuffbats The crabby fussbudget Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The crabby fussbudget
#145135: Sep 26th 2022 at 9:26:29 PM

A couple things:

  • 1: Can we please not speculate on who gets in or who gets cut? I’d rather name who I want to get in or what I’d do to change existing characters. Also it’s way too soon to speculate.

  • 2. I don’t know about you guys, but I don’t want another Smash game for a whole decade. I’m still burnt out from Ultimate.

  • 3. This part is largely a joke, but can we get Groose as a playable character?

AAAAUUUUGGGHHHH!!!!
ThriceCharming Since: Nov, 2013
#145136: Sep 26th 2022 at 11:13:24 PM

The Zelda character I want most is classic Ganon. After him, Tetra. It's bonkers that the series hasn't gotten a new character since Brawl (or a new original, non-clone character since Melee).

I really wanted Groose and Saria in Hyrule Warriors, though.

MyFinalEdits Delete message from Parts Unknown (Spin-off Series) Relationship Status: Cast away
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#145137: Sep 26th 2022 at 11:52:11 PM

[up][up]Yeah, we're not gonna get a new game for a long time, and that's okay. We've got a game with 84 playable characters and 115 stages in hands. There will be a moment sometime along the road to talk about future rosters (though I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with some speculation right now, as long as it's kept calm).

As for a new Zelda character, I still want Byrne. tongue

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ObligatorySarcasm Since: Aug, 2016
#145138: Sep 27th 2022 at 4:53:32 AM

Honestly, I'm wondering if Zelda being released as one of the last games for the previous console and first games for the new console is impacting its presence in Smash. Is that release timeframe keeping it out of the majority of Smash's development cycle?

It is completely baffling that a franchise of that popularity and impactful hasn't had a true new character since Melee in 2001! And what characters it does have is quite frankly very lazy, especially for such an item heavy franchise. Yes, Zelda gets content with items and music, but the main appeal in Smash is the characters. And even with that, Bot W shattered so many records and was a massive success and it's content in Ultimate is comparably lackluster, such as using a song from its trailer instead of actual game music.

Not to say, "Aw, poor Zelda franchise" like its being ignored, but when you have something that prominent and successful, it makes it transition to Smash stick out that much more.

-Witty line-
Ultimatum Disasturbator from The Wiggle Room (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#145139: Sep 27th 2022 at 5:53:33 AM

Could be they think players are only interested Link (Toon Link and young Link as well),Zelda and Ganondorf because of their mainstream recognition

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
powerpuffbats The crabby fussbudget Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The crabby fussbudget
#145140: Sep 27th 2022 at 6:02:45 AM

[up][up]I think I just got burnt out on speculation because of Ultimate.

I also really hate talking about who would get cut as at the end of the day we don’t know who would get cut. I miss the days of Brawl speculation where we didn’t care about that and talked about who we wanted in.

AAAAUUUUGGGHHHH!!!!
kirbman Mamaf*cker! from The place Since: Feb, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#145141: Sep 27th 2022 at 6:04:51 AM

[up]I mean, there wasn't really a precedent for characters getting cut back then.

powerpuffbats The crabby fussbudget Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The crabby fussbudget
#145142: Sep 27th 2022 at 6:08:51 AM

[up]Yep. I just don’t want to be a dick to fans of certain characters. I just wanna talk about who I want in the game without people telling me how “this character won’t get in”.

AAAAUUUUGGGHHHH!!!!
wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#145143: Sep 27th 2022 at 7:15:13 AM

[up]Agreed. I could easily list characters I could see getting cut or I would prioritize cutting, but what would be the point?

Of the Zelda characters, I'd like to see Cia. I should probably add the cooldown time for how her neutral and down specials work in the moveset I came up with for her.

If not Cia, hmm... Not a lot of characters come to mind, partly because I'm not as familiar with the series. But also partly because Impa, the heroes from BOTW, the Foursword/Triforce Heroes, and the Majora's Mask main masks would be implemented in the moveset changes I'd do for Sheik and the Links. I'm not really attached to Skull Kid. I could see the Twinrova as a boss. I'd kinda be interested in Linkle, but I doubt that'd go over well. Midna might also fit, I guess.

Edited by wanderlustwarrior on Sep 27th 2022 at 9:27:17 AM

The sad, REAL American dichotomy
NesClassic Meh-meh!? from Flyover Country Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: In another castle
Meh-meh!?
#145144: Sep 27th 2022 at 7:22:04 AM

Re:Zelda: It's in an odd boat like Fire Emblem where the individual components make sense in a vacuum but altogether come off as weird, in this case the fact that Link himself tends to represent whatever the more recent game is while having to adhere to a moveset primarily based on the combat from Zelda II. Then the other two Links are a Moveset Clone and his Suspiciously Similar Substitute, Zelda and Sheik are standalone due to people preferring them that way, and Ganondorf's... well, he's been discussed to death.tongue

Thing is, the series has enough breakout one-off characters- a lot of which are Assist Trophies- that they could look to those for new characters. Do it less for "representation" and more to throw Zelda fans a bone with their faves.

Re:Talking Cuts: Weirdly, Smash is the only FG I see this happen with. Other playerbases assume their roster's a blank slate until shown otherwise, outside of "locks" like, say, Ryu and Chun-Li.

Granted, other FGs make less of a show about new characters getting added to their pantheon, which is prolly where it comes from. With Smash people are always looking forward to what's new, with other games people like new characters as much as they do seeing how old ones get remixed.

Edited by NesClassic on Sep 27th 2022 at 10:22:18 AM

🏳️‍⚧️she/her | Vio Rhyse Alberia
FGHIK Since: Aug, 2013
#145145: Sep 27th 2022 at 7:31:00 AM

It's been said many times before, but giving the different Links distinct movesets would help a lot. His items and abilities vary wildly with every game, there's tons to draw from, so why should three different Links only feature the most basic and consistent items? Like, sure, those basics should be present, but they don't need to be the be-all end-all. Why not give Toon Link the Deku Leaf for recovery, or let Young Link use Bombchus?

Ultimatum Disasturbator from The Wiggle Room (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#145146: Sep 27th 2022 at 7:31:42 AM

Princess Midna I think would be a solid choice,even if she's an echo of Zelda

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
BadWolf21 Since: May, 2010
#145147: Sep 27th 2022 at 8:29:52 AM

Princess Midna is on screen for all of three minutes. She’s a terrible choice for a character. Just use Imp Midna.

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#145148: Sep 27th 2022 at 8:35:56 AM

[up]She also is her own character in Hyrule Warriors. You probably shouldn't tell other people what to want/do.

The sad, REAL American dichotomy
BadWolf21 Since: May, 2010
#145149: Sep 27th 2022 at 8:43:45 AM

Did I tell them what to think or do? I expressed my opinion. Just because it’s a negative one doesn’t mean I don’t have a right to it.

Pokesamus Since: Aug, 2016
#145150: Sep 27th 2022 at 8:50:31 AM

Yes you did. Telling someone to use this thing that you think is better is telling someoen what to think/do


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