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ObligatorySarcasm Since: Aug, 2016
#144926: Aug 11th 2022 at 8:32:49 PM

Wily's stage is unplayable for me because of the Yellow Devil. He should have been a classic route boss fight instead (and would help give some variety compared to the 216 end route fights with the Hands).

-Witty line-
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#144927: Aug 11th 2022 at 8:55:08 PM

Or he could just spawn maybe 75% less frequently and it'd be fine.

Seriously, Metal Face only ever appears maybe once or twice a match, sometimes not at all if it's quick enough, and the stage is big enough that ignoring him is usually an option even when he does show up. He's a boss hazard done right. Yellow Devil on the other hand I tend to see three or even four times per match, there's very small gaps between its departure/death and next arrival so it's almost constantly present, and of course it turns the entire stage into a boss arena.

Edited by Anomalocaris20 on Aug 11th 2022 at 11:55:36 AM

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
IceLevel Figuratively and Literally Chill from The Ninth Circle of Hell (with a heater) Since: Jul, 2022 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
Figuratively and Literally Chill
#144928: Aug 11th 2022 at 9:22:57 PM

Yellow Devil is the poster child of how botched the Stage Hazard toggle is.

It's incredibly inconsistent in what it considers a hazard, sometimes does nothing at all to remove a hazard, or takes away TOO much and leaves a stage with very little distinguishing it from a FD or Battlefield clone. An older one, but this video by PJiggles I think describes a much better way of handling the Stage Hazard toggle.

TLDW: The stage hazard toggle would get its own separate menu in the advanced settings like how random stage selecting does. From there, you can individually turn on or off every hazard in a stage to your liking and save it in a ruleset. So you can have, for example:

  • WarioWare Inc. with only the Taunt! and Don't move! microgames on
  • Town and City with only the moving platforms from the town half and the balloons enabled with the city half disabled
  • Yoshi's Story with the item Fly Guys disabled but Randall enabled
... and so on and so forth, all within the same ruleset without having to make a separate ruleset with the hazard toggle turned on or off.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#144929: Aug 11th 2022 at 9:26:56 PM

The fly guys don't...do anything when food items are off.

Unless you for some reason need food items to spawn normally, which would happen anyway.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
MyFinalEdits Delete message from Parts Unknown (Spin-off Series) Relationship Status: Cast away
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#144930: Aug 11th 2022 at 9:35:07 PM

I feel that the whole stage boss concept was severely underutilized. Both in the context of Smash 4 for not using it with more boss characters, and in Ultimate for not being used for Classic Mode finales (which would no doubt have reduced the overabundance of Master Hand fights).

I wouldn't be surprised if, rather than doing a successful third attempt, Smash 6 simply dropped the idea altogether.

Edited by MyFinalEdits on Aug 11th 2022 at 12:36:15 PM

135 -> 180 -> 273 -> 191 -> 188 -> 230 -> 300 -> 311
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#144931: Aug 11th 2022 at 9:44:00 PM

With fewer characters they can utilize the idea more...

Also for an extra mode and not Classic Mode which should be Master Hand.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
MyFinalEdits Delete message from Parts Unknown (Spin-off Series) Relationship Status: Cast away
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#144932: Aug 11th 2022 at 9:52:06 PM

[up]I mean, if the (main) boss distribution across all Classic Mode routes was more equitable, you'd be right and we wouldn't need to have stage bosses in them. But as it stands, what's the point of having Shulk fight Master Hand at the end of his route when the game has Metal Face? Or Samus doing the same when she could face Dark Emperor?

There's just no excuse.

Edited by MyFinalEdits on Aug 11th 2022 at 12:52:34 PM

135 -> 180 -> 273 -> 191 -> 188 -> 230 -> 300 -> 311
FGHIK Since: Aug, 2013
#144933: Aug 11th 2022 at 9:58:35 PM

Hell you wouldn't even need stage bosses for classic mode to be more diverse. Galleom for example would be far more fitting for Shulk's final boss.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#144934: Aug 11th 2022 at 10:03:49 PM

It'd be cool to see Metal Face as a Classic Mode boss but he'd need to be changed quite a bit from his stage hazard self; additional attacks and mobility, at the very least. Stage hazard Metal Face doesn't do much except park himself in one spot and stand there doing nothing until an enemy enters claw-slashing range.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
IceLevel Figuratively and Literally Chill from The Ninth Circle of Hell (with a heater) Since: Jul, 2022 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
Figuratively and Literally Chill
#144935: Aug 11th 2022 at 10:15:23 PM

Re: Fly Guys with items

They used to spawn with food items even when items were disabled with hazards on. Turns out the 13.0 patch that dropped Sora fixed this, I never realized. Plus, someone might want to disable them for the same reason someone might want to disable balloons on the AC stages, minor hitboxes that might get in the way.

I can get why they didn't want to put Galeem or Dharkon into the Classic Modes of characters since they're WoL's end bosses, but... I dunno, they def should've mixed things up more by using the 6 other bosses they made instead of defaulting to the hands so often. And as for stage bosses, I totally could've seen Mega Man's boss stage being spiced up by having you fight Yellow Devil before spawning in the Dr. Mario and Mewtwo Wily-stand ins. Why stop there, even? This game introduced a Wily assist trophy and the ability to defeat assist trophies, just bump up his health bar and maybe have another fighter besides him and that would've been a great fit.

Edited by IceLevel on Aug 11th 2022 at 1:17:48 PM

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#144936: Aug 11th 2022 at 11:16:21 PM

No one wanted the balloon on Smashville gone...(the amount of people who went for the balloon in a recent tournament with "hazards on for Smashville/Town & City" was quite high)

I get what you're trying to say, but if you're going for competitive sympathy...

Pretty much every cool person just wants less obstructive hazards and stage variety.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
IceLevel Figuratively and Literally Chill from The Ninth Circle of Hell (with a heater) Since: Jul, 2022 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
Figuratively and Literally Chill
#144937: Aug 11th 2022 at 11:27:33 PM

I don't either, the balloons are fun yet harmless. I think we're having a "forest for the trees" moment here. I'm saying an ideal stage hazard toggle would have the option to individually turn on or off every part of a stage that could be a "hazard". So you can have the balloon on or off, the town platform layout of Town & City on or off, the city platform layout on or off, and any combination of the aforementioned three settings. The video I linked explains it better than I probably could.

Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#144938: Aug 12th 2022 at 2:49:05 AM

Pac-Maze wasn't on the Wii U because the gimmick required each player to have their own screen. Same reason it didn't come back for Ultimate.

I can understand that Sakurai wanted it to be the authentic concept, though yeah, it's silly it didn't come back for Ultimate. It's kind of an annoying layout during Single Player, so I didn't mind it not always being in Smash 4 in general. >.>;

Shadow?
wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#144939: Aug 12th 2022 at 6:58:54 AM

I never got to play Pac-Maze. Is the only difference between players "ownership" of the ghosts when someone collects a Power Pellet?

If so, that effect could just be changed so the player who collects a Power Pellet is immune to the stage's ghosts.

The sad, REAL American dichotomy
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#144940: Aug 12th 2022 at 11:57:20 AM

That's already what the effect was...

The multiple screen thing was only so that the person with the pellet could see the blue ghosts.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Ookamikun This is going to be so much fun. (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
This is going to be so much fun.
#144941: Aug 12th 2022 at 12:10:31 PM

It's weird that it's 50m that's picked. You'd think it'd be 25m.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#144942: Aug 12th 2022 at 12:20:18 PM

It's 75m in the game...

Randomness picked 50m for its better layout...

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#144943: Aug 12th 2022 at 12:33:49 PM

I see why they went with 75m, its more asymmetric and unusual layout makes for a more interesting stage.

Unfortuntely, "interesting" doesn't equate to "good". At least they changed it up enough to make it more tolerable for Smash 4 and Ultimate.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
powerpuffbats The crabby fussbudget Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The crabby fussbudget
#144944: Aug 12th 2022 at 5:01:54 PM

Never forget how awful the Mario Bros stage was in Brawl. Ultimate made it a better stage.

AAAAUUUUGGGHHHH!!!!
IceLevel Figuratively and Literally Chill from The Ninth Circle of Hell (with a heater) Since: Jul, 2022 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
Figuratively and Literally Chill
#144945: Aug 12th 2022 at 5:08:01 PM

Mario Bros. is at least a fun stage for casual 1v1s. Playing with one other person and no items, just relying on the enemies to get kills can be really dumb fun. 75m doesn't get that luxury, it's not fun to fight on no matter the ruleset. I'm really surprised the classic 25m wasn't made a stage, it's pretty straight forward but still has a very unique platform layout.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#144946: Aug 12th 2022 at 6:01:55 PM

Mario Bros. might as well be a separate minigame mode rather than a stage. Not necessarily a bad thing, though, it's fun as an occasional reprieve.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#144947: Aug 12th 2022 at 6:05:45 PM

That would be good for one of the Multi-Man Smash modes...

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
ultimate_life_form Since: Aug, 2019
#144948: Aug 12th 2022 at 8:31:29 PM

i have the hottest take of all

windy hill zone sucks

i genuienly loathe it

part of it is bias because that's the second sonic stage over anything else but it's also just....a worse version of the mario galaxy stage in every way

Edited by ultimate_life_form on Aug 12th 2022 at 8:31:40 AM

powerpuffbats The crabby fussbudget Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The crabby fussbudget
#144949: Aug 12th 2022 at 8:44:41 PM

Couple things:

1. I don’t mind the Windy Hill stage.

2. Here is my hottest take: I hate Melee fans. Purely because of the elitism. And their inability to be able to enjoy the other Smash games. Or how they continue to bring big CRT T Vs to tournaments just because they don’t want to learn to adjust to tiny amounts of input lag. I love Melee but I hate Melee fans.

AAAAUUUUGGGHHHH!!!!
diddyknux (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#144950: Aug 12th 2022 at 8:48:35 PM

I'd personally take Windy Hill over Good Egg Galaxy. But only barely, I also don't like Windy Hill as the second Sonic level. I get they wanted something from the newest Sonic game but I wish they hadn't gone that way, there's tons of iconic areas or levels from Sonic games they could choose from. Maybe a Casino level?


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