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Isn't that an issue with loading a ton of stuff in at once? A Smash Run Battle Royal could just load in the general area around your player character, and the other Switches connecting complete the map picture with all the other characters. Unless that wouldn't work, for some reason.
Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Mar 8th 2019 at 12:08:20 PM
This game is extremely well optimized. There's rarely slowdown even when people exploit things like the Assist Trophy glitch, so I don't think technical limitations should be all that big of a problem.
Fighting games need to do a lot more calculations per rendered object than FPS games do. Player-controlled objects in Smash have a far greater number of actions than player-controlled objects in Fortnite, and their interactions have a significantly broader variety of outcomes.
I was not aware of that. I figured that Fortnite being a 3D game would make it more taxing than Smash Bros, a 2D game. Still, the game can handle 8 players at once fine, and it probably wouldn't have to load in that many if it's just limited to the general area around your own character.
Bear in mind that I'm not an expert on the subject. This is all stuff that was explained to me by friends who studied as computer engineers (and a few years ago at that, since I was asking this in regards to why Smash 4 was so laggy compared to Mario Kart), and I'm just relaying this as I understand it:
Fortnite, and most online games that involve a lot of players, are hosted on dedicated servers. If one person has bad internet, then only that one person's connection to the server is disrupted and everyone else can play normally. The downside to this system is that it takes a while to send information to a server, have the server do calculations, then have the server send outputs back to your console to display on your screen.
Smash, and most online games that involve few players, use peer-to-peer. The servers are used primarily for matchmaking, but the games are actually hosted on a single player's console that does all the calculations and sends information back to all other players' consoles. Fighting games prefer this format because actions that read player inputs are much more context-dependent in fighting games and optimal play requires well-timed inputs, which makes latency far more disruptive. If two players have good internet connections, then peer-to-peer is much smoother than client-server. The more players you add on, though, the more communication the systems have to do, which slows down the experience. Additionally, since the consoles are all directly connected to each other, not through a middle-man, then if any one single player has a bad internet connection, everybody has to wait on that one player, and so everybody experiences the same lag.
Peer-to-peer for a battle royal game is out of the question. As for whether that kind of thing could work on a server... From what I understand, and this is where I'm especially shaky, that would be too costly to be practical for whatever company would be paying for it. Fighting game characters have a much longer list of actions than FPS characters, in terms of how they respond to player inputs and environmental contexts, and the game's hit physics, meaning a much longer list of logical equations to determine what animations and effects to apply on each frame. For a server to handle that number of calculations 60 times per second while taking inputs from 100 players would require some unreasonably expensive tech, if that's even possible. Reducing the number of players hosted by each server would either require Nintendo or Sora to set up even more servers, which would also be costly, or require players to wait very long for servers to clear up and become available agin. On top of that, the client-server latency would be unavoidable, and would still be undesirable for a game where player inputs yield context- and timing-sensitive outputs.
At least, that's how I understand the subject. If anybody knows this better than I do, please feel free to correct me.
I vaguely recall that the game only crash when it came to the Ice Climbers or the assist trophy glitch or combination of both.
In the Ice Climbers case it was more along the lines some sort of absurdly high number of having clones of them.
Either way, I'm pretty sure it can handle something like 99 players.
Smash Run was great. Granted, I would have preferred the map have more connection to the various games, but it was a step in a good direction. Maybe give more options for the final battles or allow a frequency choice for it (I hated race to the top and Mii fights).
Smash Run was so fun to play.
I love beating mooks from the Nintedendo's franchises & series.
Too bad at the time that's what made people hate Kid Icarus.
Yea, while it did make sense why they had so many enemied (they just transferred data from Uprising into Smash to save time). However, it looked bad having more mooks than even Mario and it certainly didn't help that almost all the KI enemies were pains in the ass to fight, either being very cheap, annoying or pointlessly difficult.
True, KI getting all that content contributed to the series getting backlash (on top of other things like Palutena getting 12 unique moves, the many trophies, all the added KI items and the guidances that were more on the side of talking about KI than the characters, at least compared to the Snake codecs). Hell, KI was even bumped up to the original 8 in the reveal trailer, taking Yoshi's place.
But what I think that was the final straw for people was after all this was announced, then we got Dark Pit as a character, one of the clonest clones ever at the time.
Smash 4's roster was interesting as it had some of the best picks in Smash but at the same time some of the worst.
Some of the best.
KIU and Mario have the same number of enemies.
As far as development goes, Dark Pit is a great choice for a roster slot. He has different voice lines and a unique personality from Pit, but using the same voice actor. Pit's already getting a new Side B, so might as well make Dark Pit's version a little different. Changing the properties and glow of his arrow would also be fairly simple, and they can just take Zelda's arrow Final Smash for Dark Pit's staff.
Dark Pit was originally just going to be a costume for Pit, but I suspect a big part of the reason they gave him his own slot is that, unlike Olimar, Pit has a ton of voice lines in Smash, none of which would fit Dark Pit's edgier persona.
I think Dark Pit's a great addition to the roster, even if I think they should have decloned him a bit in Ultimate.
Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Mar 10th 2019 at 5:23:04 AM
It would've been neat to see him go full declone and replace his weapons with different weapon types from KIU, such as cannons, palms, or claws.
At the risk of pissing off Bandana Dee fans, why not have him actually use the spear for his whole moveset instead of just his Final Smash?
Why would Bandana Dee not use the Spear for his whole moveset already?
Cos he's a echo fighter for Kirby
x4 He does have a loadout that's canon to his appearance in Uprising. While the Silver Bow is his signature weapon and the Dark Pit Staff is designed after him, he's also encountered at different points (mostly in Chapter 6) equipped with the First Blade, the EZ Cannon, the Violet Palm, and the Ogre Club. The Ogre Club is already an item in Smash, but there's still enough in the remaining weapons to make a more distinctive moveset for him.
Edited by TheHeroHartmut on Mar 10th 2019 at 1:41:12 PM
I... think the actual post was about Dark Pit using his staff/gun for all his moves, and the idea that it's too similar to Bandanna Dee's spear. If not, I have no idea how it relates to the current conversation.
Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Mar 10th 2019 at 6:43:12 AM
That was what I was trying to say, yes.
I know a lot of Bandanna Dee fans say that him using a spear would be unique as a selling point, but as someone who'd like Bandanna Dee in the game, I think they're joking. The real reason everyone wants him is because he's the most logical pick for a 4th Kirby rep, since he's the go-to 4th playable character for the games.
If people were simply wanting him because he's an available playable character, I'd assume they would be clamoring for Adeline before Bandana.
People want Bandana in because they like him, not because he's convenient.
The spear would be the 4th rep.
And which Kirby enemy that uses it during the battle is random/alt costume option.
Let's have Adeleine AND Bandanna Waddle Dee.
Both Ado and Adeline, why not?
That & he's incredibly endearing character.
So the MM Link logic then?
Yea, I've been thinking that's the way to go for awhile now.
Edited by agent-trunks on Mar 10th 2019 at 7:57:51 AM
On another topic, I was finally able to get the Sukapon Spirit. Ended up just brute forcing it with upgraded Medusa, Victini, and Sheriff. x3
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