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PresidentStalkeyes 'Tyanut'sya k nebu...' from Novosibirsk Station
'Tyanut'sya k nebu...'
Sep 19th 2019 at 12:17:02 PM

[up]This is true. I remember during my very first playthrough, the United Nations of Earth showed up and formed a Defensive Pact with a brutal slave-driving empire solely because they hated the Commonwealth of Man (who, incidentally, I was allied with despite playing as the hated xenos). Unfortunately this time around I'm bordered by a Devouring Swarm, who are bordered by another Devouring Swarm. :V

I've also discovered that warfare is very different from before. I remember in the console version, my one tactic was 'build up a massive fleet, hunt down the enemy's massive fleet, destroy them and then occupy all their worlds with impunity', but here I tried to fight a war against one of the aforementioned Devouring Swarms, who kept sending lots of small fleets at me that kept retaking outposts I'd already destroyed. I'm starting to think it might be a better idea to split my forces into a 'main fleet' of Battleships and Cruisers to go on a beeline for enemy colonies, deal with the stronger starports and escort troop transports, and one or two easily-replaceable auxiliary fleets of Destroyers and Corvettes to fly around blowing up defenceless outposts and generally be a nuisance.

Space Russian Cyborg Clone Agent Ladies With Electric Knuckle Cannons? [Art by Spunky]
theLibrarian That all you got? from his own little world
That all you got?
Sep 19th 2019 at 1:57:55 PM

Yeah, Paradox changed that in the PC version specifically to avoid blobbing and make warfare more tactical.

That is the face of a man who just ate a kitten. Raw.
Journeyman Overlording the Underworld from On a throne in a vault overlooking the Wasteland
Overlording the Underworld
Sep 19th 2019 at 8:41:01 PM

[up][up]That's exactly what I do now. Big fleet rocks the beeline for choke points and holds them. Small fleets beat down the weaker systems and secure everything before the whole ball of them runs into the next constellation.

ETA: Also, even in the old days buildings didn't do jack on their own. They added tile bonuses but you still needed your pops on the tiles to work them. All that's really changed is that Paradox has loosened the leash and allowed players more customization on their worlds.

Edited by Journeyman on Sep 19th 2019 at 11:43:30 AM

Ramidel Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Sep 19th 2019 at 8:46:39 PM

Personally, my usual tactic is to use the deathballs to shut down all enemy shipyards and destroy their ability to fight, then send small victory fleets to seize outposts while the transports (if needed) come in to seize planets.

Can't pull new fleets out of your ass if you don't have an ass to pull them out of. grin

Fiat justitia ruat caelum.
PresidentStalkeyes 'Tyanut'sya k nebu...' from Novosibirsk Station
'Tyanut'sya k nebu...'
Sep 20th 2019 at 7:16:27 AM

In any event, I recently started a new playthrough as a fanatic pacifist empire - just to try something different - and of course now I'm regretting it as I fruitlessly insult my neighbour over and over in the hopes they'll declare war on me. :V

Incidentally, remember earlier on I asked about synthetic empires? Well, I found a mod that basically lets you pick the normal government types as a machine race (well, strictly speaking it lets you start as an organic race that already achieved Synthetic Ascension, but, technicalities :V), which resulted in a few oddities like that one event where the crew of your science ship catch some nasty disease that makes them kill each other still happening to a robot crew, or one of your faction leaders feeling the need to stipulate that they'll be very cross if you outlaw AI (or, in other words, commit both political and literal suicide :V).

Funny thing is, their backstory, I decided, is that they were created as weapons of war by an extremely pacifistic race that had never fought a war, and so programmed them according to what they'd do in a war - so when a war did break out, the robots did what their programming dictated - run away, leaving their creators to nuke themselves to oblivion. So aside from being panicky and hysterical, this had the unfortunate side-effect of making all their neighbours assume they turned on their creators, which would explain why, again, all my anti-AI, militaristic neighbours hate my circuits. So everything fell into place. :V

Edited by PresidentStalkeyes on Sep 20th 2019 at 3:17:54 PM

Space Russian Cyborg Clone Agent Ladies With Electric Knuckle Cannons? [Art by Spunky]
Journeyman Overlording the Underworld from On a throne in a vault overlooking the Wasteland
Overlording the Underworld
Sep 20th 2019 at 7:29:09 AM

[up][up]I want them to rebuild and keep coming back. If I build my fleets right and play against their weaknesses I won't take as many casualties. Which means I can jack up their war exhaustion fast and make them surrender sooner.

Tacitus Watching Troy Burn from year 2016-IV
Sep 20th 2019 at 8:22:57 AM

a few oddities like that one event where the crew of your science ship catch some nasty disease that makes them kill each other still happening to a robot crew, or one of your faction leaders feeling the need to stipulate that they'll be very cross if you outlaw AI (or, in other words, commit both political and literal suicide :V).

Oh, there's stuff like that in unmodded Stellaris. Back in the Good Old Days when I neutron swept the galaxy as a xenophobic empire of ascended synths, I got the Contingency crisis, including the events where hostile robots infiltrated my society. The ones wearing rubber skin were easily spotted by my synth citizens, but then the Contingency deployed improved infiltrators with vat-grown flesh that blended in almost perfectly!

Current Earworm: "Solringen"
PresidentStalkeyes 'Tyanut'sya k nebu...' from Novosibirsk Station
Tacitus Watching Troy Burn from year 2016-IV
Sep 20th 2019 at 5:18:42 PM

Maybe the Kab'Masri Empire already had a tradition of growing skin in vats, then draping it over their metal chassis to pretend to be members of extinct races of meat-based primitives, so the younger programs could amuse themselves by hunting and "killing" those primitives with low-powered disruptors. But one year Extermination Day took a tragic turn when some fun-seeking youngsters blasted a group of "Chinoor" only to find not their elders beneath the charred flesh, but murderous alien programs.

Current Earworm: "Solringen"
Journeyman Overlording the Underworld from On a throne in a vault overlooking the Wasteland
Overlording the Underworld
Sep 20th 2019 at 10:15:54 PM

Playing Crusader Kings II and I think I got fucked over by a bug. I'm a Duke in Francia during the Saxon war. I am nowhere near the field of war whatsoever. I'm a spymaster for my liege, and not one of my personal forces' commanders. Game still says I'm commanding troops where my army is, and I'm still getting battlefield events I shouldn't. I've lost a leg, and there's no fucking way I can duel the enemy leader since my dueling skill is -10 and his is 26. I hate this.

SpookyMask Insert title from Corner in round room Relationship Status: Non-Canon
Insert title
Sep 20th 2019 at 10:27:48 PM

Umm. That isn't probably bug, its probably your liege deploying you as commander for his armies in his own wars.

Yes, they can do that tongue

Edited by SpookyMask on Sep 20th 2019 at 8:27:58 PM

Time to change the style, for now
Journeyman Overlording the Underworld from On a throne in a vault overlooking the Wasteland
Overlording the Underworld
Sep 20th 2019 at 10:31:26 PM

No, it's a bug. Game specifically says I'm commanding MY army, not anyone in his. I checked. When I click the symbol for leading armies, it shows me mine, no one else's. All the battle details are mine too. Which is wrong. I have three commanders. All of them are vassals or courtiers. Not me. I should not be mangled and I should not have lost a leg. In the game's reality I am back at home with my loving wife, or else off doing spymaster things because that's what I am. A spymaster for the King of Francia. Not a commander.

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands
Redmess
Sep 21st 2019 at 1:56:00 AM

[up][up]That's an interesting interpretation, and I think it could work, but the game still should make it clearer.

Sounds like you are on the receiving end of a popular player tactic there: the Uriah Gambit.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Sep 21st 2019 at 6:07:23 AM

I've been playing more Crusader Kings these days and I've noticed something that I really wish they'd implement in Stellaris.

Civil wars.

As most of you probably know, insurrection in Stellaris is completely irrelevant. It rarely threatens AI's and never threatens players, and this isn't a new thing. It has never really been a feature worth considering and thus polities have been unfortunately stable. But Crusader Kings 2 has shown me why this doesn't happen, unlike their Civil War feature rebels in Stellaris lack anything approaching coordination.

In reality, the only ways states would fall is if 1) the military defected or 2) sufficiently large numbers of people rose to topple the government. Neither are present, which means that rebellions are universally localized and outgunned, with predictable results.

By contrast, in CK 2 rebellions are composed of various elites with their own armies who form their own nation. This means that rebels can actually contest the national government and thus are an actually interesting mechanic. Imagine how important factions would be if they could gather armed forces and secretly stockpile weapons! I haven't played Imperator but it seems to have a rebellion mechanic similar to CK 2, so hopefully, Paradox will implement a similar thing in Stellaris and Eu 4 (or 5).

"Progress is a nice word. But change is its motivator. And change has its enemies." -Robert Kennedy
Journeyman Overlording the Underworld from On a throne in a vault overlooking the Wasteland
Overlording the Underworld
Sep 21st 2019 at 7:18:46 AM

[up][up]Again, that would be okay if it existed, but that isn't the case. I laid out exactly why this is a bug and nothing deliberate on my King's part. Everything in the game says I'm leading my own army, except for the army itself which had three OTHER commanders. You're only with the army if you're a commander yourself, and I'm not. Doesn't matter anyway, I died and my underage daughter is ruling under a regency council. She's shaping up to be a spitfire herself, but since this is Charlemagne France the game had better not screw up and claim she's leading armies when she's not even allowed to be a commander or marshal.

ETA: If your lord has you as a commander, the game DOES tell you. The army leading symbol points exactly to the army you're with and there's a little head symbol next to the army on the map screen whenever you're leading it. There wasn't even a head symbol anywhere, which meant I. Was. Not. There.

Edited by Journeyman on Sep 21st 2019 at 10:20:52 AM

PresidentStalkeyes 'Tyanut'sya k nebu...' from Novosibirsk Station
'Tyanut'sya k nebu...'
Sep 21st 2019 at 7:56:40 AM

[up][up]I have actually seen a mod that attempts to make rebellions a bit more relevant, chiefly by making it so that a successful rebellion is likely to set off a chain reaction of rebellions that all band together into a single faction, and also enabling rival empires to purposely support the rebels or sow unrest with a unique tech. I have to be honest, though, when I played with it turned on I didn't notice much of a difference, though that may have been because the only rebellion that happened hated me just as much as the people they were rebelling from because I was a 'soulless machine' or something. :V

Space Russian Cyborg Clone Agent Ladies With Electric Knuckle Cannons? [Art by Spunky]
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Sep 21st 2019 at 8:09:14 AM

[up]That's a cool idea, but yeah, if pops are just as easy to please then adding in CK 2 style Civil Wars probably wouldn't add much.

"Progress is a nice word. But change is its motivator. And change has its enemies." -Robert Kennedy
Journeyman Overlording the Underworld from On a throne in a vault overlooking the Wasteland
Overlording the Underworld
Sep 21st 2019 at 8:30:17 AM

To get Civil Wars going, your leaders need personalities, not just stat bonuses. Otherwise it's just a waste. But then we're getting into making the game more like CK 2, and until they get better at optimizing Stellaris, it won't be a good idea.

PresidentStalkeyes 'Tyanut'sya k nebu...' from Novosibirsk Station
'Tyanut'sya k nebu...'
Sep 21st 2019 at 10:11:06 AM

Perhaps they should make it so that a successful rebel state is automatically at war with their former oppressors as soon as they declare independence, and since it's a war for their very survival, it's treated similarly to a war against a Gestalt Consciousness - any outposts they take are instantly ceded to them without needing to make a claim, thus enabling them to engage in Guerrilla warfare with a statistically inferior fleet. And then combine that with the chain reaction effect, with a successful rebellion inspiring similar rebellions on neighbouring worlds - and give the rebel ground armies a boost to their damage and morale while you're at it. That could spread like wildfire. :V

Space Russian Cyborg Clone Agent Ladies With Electric Knuckle Cannons? [Art by Spunky]
Ramidel Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Sep 21st 2019 at 7:47:25 PM

it's treated similarly to a war against a Gestalt Consciousness

Minor nitpick: A war on a gestalt is not necessarily a Total War; only Devouring Swarms, Determined Exterminators and Driven Assimilators have automatic total war options.

That said, I agree that a rebellion should start a Total War and a chain reaction.

Fiat justitia ruat caelum.
PresidentStalkeyes 'Tyanut'sya k nebu...' from Novosibirsk Station
'Tyanut'sya k nebu...'
Sep 22nd 2019 at 1:01:07 AM

Oh, so that's what a Total War is. I didn't realize that's what it meant. :V

Space Russian Cyborg Clone Agent Ladies With Electric Knuckle Cannons? [Art by Spunky]
Journeyman Overlording the Underworld from On a throne in a vault overlooking the Wasteland
Overlording the Underworld
Sep 22nd 2019 at 5:59:48 AM

To be fair, in the old days Sectors counted as factions and if you didn't meet their wishes for long enough, they did rebel and build their own fleets.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Relationship Status: It's complicated
Sep 22nd 2019 at 8:52:57 AM

[up]Of course, in practice it never really worked well.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
PresidentStalkeyes 'Tyanut'sya k nebu...' from Novosibirsk Station
'Tyanut'sya k nebu...'
Sep 22nd 2019 at 2:12:40 PM

In other news, does anyone know the best way to provoke a Fallen Empire into declaring war on you when you're a pacifist? I wasn't able to 'pacify' their sacred holy world with a Colossus like I wanted, so instead I colonized it and renamed it 'Garbage Dump', but no dice (I would have made it a Penal Colony as well, if it was big enough). Now I've resorted to repeatedly insulting them again. :V

Edit: Before someone suggests, shifting ethics towards Militarist is out of the question - not only is there no Militarist faction, there's no Militarists, period. :V

Edited by PresidentStalkeyes on Sep 22nd 2019 at 10:28:03 AM

Space Russian Cyborg Clone Agent Ladies With Electric Knuckle Cannons? [Art by Spunky]
theLibrarian That all you got? from his own little world
That all you got?
Sep 22nd 2019 at 2:41:05 PM

It depends on what kind of Fallen Empire it is.

That is the face of a man who just ate a kitten. Raw.

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