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lrrose Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Dec 6th 2018 at 4:43:50 PM

I'm playing it right now as a randomly generated megacorp. I'm enjoying it so far: the new planetary interface is much better than the old one. I haven't got the chance to test out the unique corporate authoirty abilities, as the only other empire I met doesn't like me enough to form a commercial pact.

Edited by lrrose on Dec 6th 2018 at 7:50:11 AM

Live long and prosper
Ultimatum ◕_ from England Relationship Status: Holding out for a hero
◕_
Dec 6th 2018 at 4:45:57 PM

How do you play as a random generated empire,or is that a mod thing?

Shocked,surprised and a little concerned
lrrose Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Dec 6th 2018 at 4:51:58 PM

There's a randomize button on the start game menu. I used it because I wanted to see the new features before putting the effort into creating a custom empire and decided that I liked the one it gave me enough to play it.

Live long and prosper
Ultimatum ◕_ from England Relationship Status: Holding out for a hero
◕_
Dec 6th 2018 at 4:55:43 PM

Heh,I'll check it out,the game is constantly being updated so it's hard to commit to a save

Shocked,surprised and a little concerned
Tacitus Watching Troy Burn from year 2016-III
Dec 6th 2018 at 5:16:37 PM

Maybe it's because I went with International Security instead of taking the Global Economy path back in school, but it feels like Stellaris' Early Game Hell got Early Game Hell-ier. I'm still working out how to generate enough consumer goods (or are they amenities now?) to keep my population happy, on top of the usual struggle to maintain a positive energy balance. And I was shocked to have so many minerals with just one system, until I remembered minerals in themselves are less important now, but something you convert into other stuff like space alloys and digital watches.

Also, I started in Sol but Alpha Centauri isn't one of my neighboring systems. In fact, I'm using mostly standard settings but have only seen an Arid and Tundra world nearby. And of course this all happens when I filled the Expansion tradition line first.

This. Cannot. Continue.
TuefelHundenIV Watchman of the Apocalypse from Wandering Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Watchman of the Apocalypse
Dec 6th 2018 at 5:33:30 PM

I think they are still called consumer goods. Yeah, the new planet management system feels even more micromanagement heavy instead of less. I am somewhat annoyed by that. While clicking the boxes and building pops like previously was annoying, this really isn't all that better with all extra balancing acts you have to carry out.

"Who watches the watchmen?"
Tacitus Watching Troy Burn from year 2016-III
Dec 6th 2018 at 7:51:00 PM

So let's see, I'm over my empire's size limit because I claimed a lot of systems to prevent space pirates from spawning - except none have spawned yet, even after my second colony - and because districts count against that limit and I've built a lot. I've doubled up on research and consumer goods-producting buildings because I didn't pay attention to what was already on Earth when I started, and I can't upgrade either to their more efficient forms because I don't have any of the new gases and "motes" and don't want to become dependent on XuraCorp just yet. I've found a bunch of nice, green, colonizable planets on a nearby arm of hyperspace lanes, except as I said I'm already oversized. Alpha Centauri remains at large. My nearest neighbor is a bandit commune called the Davkhtsal Slave-Takers, it turns out you don't need to be directly bordering each other to declare rivalry anymore, and the only other empire I've encountered controls a single system surrounded by Davkhtsal space, presumably an early Space Age species that got quite a shock when they grew into a proper star empire. And the Slave-Takers have already declared their rivalry with the little lizards, so I don't expect them to last long.

On the upside, that means I might get some Arid World-preference refugees soon. On the downside, that means a bunch of unhappy lizards on my continental and tropical worlds, and if I try to found a colony with them I get even more screwed over for having an overweight empire.

It's almost nostalgic, actually, like my very first game, where I was a bunch of happy space starfish just blundering around, waiting for everything to go to hell. If the next neighbor I discover has spent the entire earlygame building corvettes, it'll end the same way.

This. Cannot. Continue.
onyhow Too much adorableness from Land of the headpats Relationship Status: Squeeeeeeeeeeeee!
Too much adorableness
Dec 6th 2018 at 10:01:14 PM

Got around to play just a tiny bit of Megacorp...the problem I see a bit early game is that unemployment seems to be easy to get especially if you're going Mechanist. Limited mineral income + rather expensive districts and buildings + needing to build all those mining and research stations = ...yeah. Mechanist are worse since you get pretty much double pop growth, and unemployed pop are only actually useful if you're on Social Welfare and Utopian Abundance living standards.

Which practically means that early spending choice is a lot more important.

Also apparently robots don't get production bonus now. At least I don't see the modifier? I thought they get 10% mineral bonus...

Also also, the tooltip for living standards in the policies screen sucks. It didn't show that academic privileges gives 10% science output bonus even though it does after you adopt it. It only shows happiness bonus and consumer goods consumption for some reason. Also does kind of suck it didn't give happiness bonus to workers, unlike old ones that give overall happiness bonus...but, then again, that makes more sense since scientists are all at least specialists.

BTW, don't worry too much about administrative cap limit. That's basically more explicitly shown on how the science and unity cost scales up when you have lots of territories and pop in the older versions. You need to worry if you play meagcorp however since you get much higher penalty for going above it, so try play tall there.

Edited by onyhow on Dec 6th 2018 at 11:14:50 AM

Give me cute or give me...something?
Ramidel Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Dec 6th 2018 at 11:01:47 PM

So. It looks like after the next expansion, the most interesting countries to play in HOI 4 will be Mexico and the Netherlands.

lol

Fiat justitia ruat caelum.
math792d The justification for everything from Tesladyne, LLC Relationship Status: Charming Titania with a donkey face
The justification for everything
Dec 6th 2018 at 11:06:49 PM

[up] I dunno, I'm looking forward to playing as the US and trying to keep American casualties to an absolute minimum, but with a better early-game.

Edited by math792d on Dec 6th 2018 at 8:07:04 PM

The news that they have nothing to fear is guaranteed to strike fear into the hearts of innocents everywhere.
theLibrarian That all you got? from his own little world
That all you got?
Dec 7th 2018 at 7:01:47 AM

I realized something yesterday...I can be the Trade Federation. Merchants with a huge army of cybernetics.

That is the face of a man who just ate a kitten. Raw.
Fourthspartan56 Technocratic Progressive from Georgia, US Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Technocratic Progressive
Dec 7th 2018 at 7:50:59 AM

Maybe it's because I went with International Security instead of taking the Global Economy path back in school, but it feels like Stellaris' Early Game Hell got Early Game Hell-ier. I'm still working out how to generate enough consumer goods (or are they amenities now?) to keep my population happy, on top of the usual struggle to maintain a positive energy balance. And I was shocked to have so many minerals with just one system, until I remembered minerals in themselves are less important now, but something you convert into other stuff like space alloys and digital watches.

Also, I started in Sol but Alpha Centauri isn't one of my neighboring systems. In fact, I'm using mostly standard settings but have only seen an Arid and Tundra world nearby. And of course this all happens when I filled the Expansion tradition line first.

Consumer goods are a global resource and are paid for pop needs and some jobs use them to make other things.

Amenities are per-planet and impact pop happiness, they represent the infrastructure dedicated to pop needs.

A really big changed I've found that can throw one off is that constructing a building will not change things immediately, jobs have to be filled and if you build too many job buildings without the pops to fill them then they'll just cost money without doing anything. So be careful not to go beyond the available labor force.

Another thing to keep in mind is that pops will naturally gravitate towards specialist over worker jobs, so that should probably be taken into account when considering what to build.

I think they are still called consumer goods. Yeah, the new planet management system feels even more micromanagement heavy instead of less. I am somewhat annoyed by that. While clicking the boxes and building pops like previously was annoying, this really isn't all that better with all extra balancing acts you have to carry out.

I'm sorry... what?

How does the system possibly have more micromanagement? Managing your economy merely requires a few clicks and most of the things are done automatically. That's the literal opposite of micromanagement. If you're increasing and decreasing the attraction of jobs then you're doing something wrong.

I completely understand feeling overwhelmed by it but it makes very little sense to suggest it is anything other than micromanagement light.

Progress is a nice word. But change is its motivator. And change has its enemies. -Robert Kennedy
TuefelHundenIV Watchman of the Apocalypse from Wandering Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Watchman of the Apocalypse
Dec 7th 2018 at 12:54:37 PM

How does it not. You have to do a lot more with a world than you used to. Like having to constantly worry about population balance with an array of added knock-on effect and constantly monitoring all the extra material that now goes into just making a building work. You have to spend notably more effort in balancing manufacture and input/output for your individual worlds and how they link into your empires trade routes with the added steps of ensuring material conversion to make certain buildings work, try and keep unemployment in check to avoid the crime problem, and chase around extra resources or make them on the world to just upgrade a building to help mitigate the worst of the knock-on effects. You still have to build individual buildings and worry about your worker pops shifting around where you don't want them to if you plop a new building down or fiddle with settings on your world at various points to try and manage that.

By contrast, before all you had to do was plop down a building on your chosen tile with far fewer requisites and then drop a pop on it and you were done. Have an unemployed pop? Shift them to an empty building tile somewhere or build one on their tile and that was it. You didn't have to juggle all the new factors before and could mostly leave a world be.

Yeah, there is quite a bit more micro involved. The old method was tedious but notably less involved by a large degree.

Edited by TuefelHundenIV on Dec 7th 2018 at 2:55:17 PM

"Who watches the watchmen?"
math792d The justification for everything from Tesladyne, LLC Relationship Status: Charming Titania with a donkey face
The justification for everything
Dec 7th 2018 at 1:39:50 PM

My first run trying to achieve Fully Automated Luxury Gay Space Communism sadly failed due to the intervention of a bloodthirsty Marauder horde.

I still think the whole Marauder mechanic is horseshit. Endless 18k doomstacks roaming around the galaxy just aren't terribly interesting. You're essentially rolling a die and hoping they don't find some way to show up and ruin your day.

The news that they have nothing to fear is guaranteed to strike fear into the hearts of innocents everywhere.
theLibrarian That all you got? from his own little world
That all you got?
Dec 7th 2018 at 2:55:32 PM

Seriously. Plus you won't be able to fight them off unless your own empire is stupidly huge.

That is the face of a man who just ate a kitten. Raw.
Fourthspartan56 Technocratic Progressive from Georgia, US Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Technocratic Progressive
Dec 7th 2018 at 3:19:51 PM

How does it not. You have to do a lot more with a world than you used to. Like having to constantly worry about population balance with an array of added knock-on effect and constantly monitoring all the extra material that now goes into just making a building work. You have to spend notably more effort in balancing manufacture and input/output for your individual worlds and how they link into your empires trade routes with the added steps of ensuring material conversion to make certain buildings work, try and keep unemployment in check to avoid the crime problem, and chase around extra resources or make them on the world to just upgrade a building to help mitigate the worst of the knock-on effects. You still have to build individual buildings and worry about your worker pops shifting around where you don't want them to if you plop a new building down or fiddle with settings on your world at various points to try and manage that.

By contrast, before all you had to do was plop down a building on your chosen tile with far fewer requisites and then drop a pop on it and you were done. Have an unemployed pop? Shift them to an empty building tile somewhere or build one on their tile and that was it. You didn't have to juggle all the new factors before and could mostly leave a world be.

Yeah, there is quite a bit more micro involved. The old method was tedious but notably less involved by a large degree.

Honestly, it just sounds like you aren't doing it correctly.

The devs specifically said that they were aiming for an experience that has significantly less micro and more strategic thought involved and my experience has mirrored that.

For my game I'm about 20 years in and the only resource I'm having trouble with is consumer goods and that's only because my economy is militarized. I'm not really needing to constantly micro my economy, most certainly far less then I used to.

Saying that we just need to plop down a building in the old system is technically true but ignores the fact that in the old system there were dozens of clicking per planet to build those facilities, while with 2.2 you have comparable effect with just a few clicks. Which is objectively less micro.

Furthermore, if you're constantly messing with job priority then you're doing something wrong, just build more districts and pops will naturally fill those jobs. The market can be used to fill in the gap while the industries are being populated.

I completely understand if you find it overwhelming but that isn't the same thing as the system having more micromanagement, but pretty much any standard it doesn't.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Dec 7th 2018 at 6:22:42 AM

Progress is a nice word. But change is its motivator. And change has its enemies. -Robert Kennedy
math792d The justification for everything from Tesladyne, LLC Relationship Status: Charming Titania with a donkey face
The justification for everything
Dec 7th 2018 at 3:27:12 PM

My second attempt at a 2.2 game, I am now playing as a Megacorporation. Authoritarian, Fanatic Spiritualist, with the Indentured Assets and Brand Loyalty Civics.

I have, of course, named this civilization 'Pear, LLC.' And the ships are all prefaced with "iOS."

The news that they have nothing to fear is guaranteed to strike fear into the hearts of innocents everywhere.
Fourthspartan56 Technocratic Progressive from Georgia, US Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Technocratic Progressive
Dec 7th 2018 at 3:29:13 PM

Sounds like the Corpus from Warframe mixed with Apple.

I like it evil grin

Progress is a nice word. But change is its motivator. And change has its enemies. -Robert Kennedy
theLibrarian That all you got? from his own little world
That all you got?
Dec 7th 2018 at 3:40:05 PM

Oh yeah, Corpus is also a thing you can make in this I realize xD

That is the face of a man who just ate a kitten. Raw.
math792d The justification for everything from Tesladyne, LLC Relationship Status: Charming Titania with a donkey face
The justification for everything
Dec 7th 2018 at 3:50:30 PM

I'm waffling between the temples being shrines to Steve Jobs or the home of galactic anti-porn crusaders.

The news that they have nothing to fear is guaranteed to strike fear into the hearts of innocents everywhere.
TuefelHundenIV Watchman of the Apocalypse from Wandering Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Watchman of the Apocalypse
Dec 7th 2018 at 5:41:35 PM

Spartan: Honestly, that opening comment is condescending and deliberately dismissive of the facts.

It's great that the devs said that but the execution proves otherwise. I guarantee you had far less micro before especially in the bigger empire scale. Micromanagement is not measured in clicks it is measured in the number of different factors and systems you have to manage to make an overall system work. Last I checked we have more of that not less. Planets alone have been broken down into several separate systems that affect the planet. You have a population system, a district system, the new manufacture of goods system, a building system, an employment system, a crime system, and we still have things like tile blockers and the other pros and cons. We didn't get less complexity and management requirements we got more. Each of those pieces has its own rules that affect the other systems all of which require you manage them in one way or another and make sure their overall interaction with the larger system that is the planet does not cause issues.

The only annoying part of the old system was how repetitive it was to set up the basic three necessities. They only partly alleviated that issue but then added more layers of complexity right back on top of that.

You didn't have to juggle multi-step products such as consumer goods and alloy manufacturing. You just had to have energy output, mineral output, and food if your chosen race eats. You just needed to manage how much output of three key resources to fuel nearly your entire economy. Instead, we have added requirements we have to manage for expenditures and upkeep and to even upgrade buildings.

You pretty much have to mess with population controls to prevent the system from automatically populating regardless of any possible negative effects that might cause and no the system is not smart about it. Your pops move automatically without adjusting settings and the system does not take into account balance only trying to auto-fill higher tiered positions without you intervening in the first place and you do not have infinite districts or infinite pops so you have to manage them. You also can't readily downshift a pop to a lower worker tier. They lose their higher tier job they refuse to work in a lower tier for three years. Not sure how slaves work because I never use slave pops.

I never said overwhelming but it is factually and objectively more micro not less because they added more layers of complexity literally top to bottom which all need to be managed. We have more systems all requiring some sort of management than we had previously from the planet level to the empire level. Everything you do can have an impact on the greater overall system that is your empire.

That is also all before you try to build a military which is part of the new trade system with trade lane patrols not just having a military fleet.

My complaint is that I have more to manage than before not less and that is annoying because it is time-consuming in the same way setting up a colony world in the old system was just with more requirements layered on and other systems that now impact it that I have to account for on top of that.

Edited by TuefelHundenIV on Dec 7th 2018 at 7:44:35 AM

"Who watches the watchmen?"
Balmung Chain Breaker from Nebraska, Free American Empire Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Chain Breaker
Dec 7th 2018 at 7:16:35 PM

I'm planning on modifying the workers councils civic from a civic and government expansion mod that, when taken with Corporate Dominion, would give you a syndicalist government (One Nation Under Copyright... But they're also fully unionized (probably gonna make its effects a clone of Shared Burdens)) and making it work with the Mega-Corp authority and combine that with Criminal Heritage to bring a whole new meaning to "crime syndicate".

I want some flying cars, a ticket to the stars / Or even just a world without religious wars
TuefelHundenIV Watchman of the Apocalypse from Wandering Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Watchman of the Apocalypse
Dec 7th 2018 at 8:20:48 PM

That sounds kind of cool. Tell us what happens when you do that.

"Who watches the watchmen?"
Druplesnubb Editor of Posts
Editor of Posts
Dec 8th 2018 at 3:04:48 AM

Honestly, I'm like 80 years in and pop magament is pretty easy. If you have a building slot open, check what you want and buil that thing. If you are overpopulated or have a lack of jobs, just check if you have a lack of housing or amenities, build a city district. If not, build one of the other districts based on what resource you want more of. Crime is basically a nonissue so far and I'm swimming in so many minerals that I the mineral upokeep of some jobs is more of a bonus than a negative. Crime is basically a non-issue, and if it becomes an issue it can be solved with one building. The only problems so far is that I had some problems getting my alloy production up (though I did start without adjacent planets, and alloys can't be found in space) and I'm running a low deficit on Consumer Goods (because the previous issue made me go War Economy), but that's nothing that the market and my massive stockpile can't fix. Then again, I still don't understand why people think the old system had anything even close to micromanagement.

Edit: My biggest problem is a planet where somehow despite my main species being outnumbered 11:1 by my syncretic species the damn planet still refuses to grow anything by synthetic pops. I had to learn how the resettlement system worked just because of that bug.

Edited by Druplesnubb on Dec 8th 2018 at 12:06:33 PM

Dec 8th 2018 at 3:49:51 AM

Hey Tuffy, are you by any chance playing a machine empire or a synthetic ascension one?

Wiz admitted on reddit that they really fucked up the ballence pass on them, and just copied normal robots.... which were balanced with suplementing pops in mind, not being your only pops.

The result is that it is almost imposible to keep machines afloat right now, but fixing it is rather high on the list to do.

It might explain the problem if your econemy is acting up.

Edited by Imca on Dec 8th 2018 at 3:51:15 AM


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