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Lawyerdude Citizen from my secret moon base Since: Jan, 2001
Citizen
#226: Apr 8th 2013 at 9:11:10 AM

Of course, sometimes it is fun to screw with their expectations. Like how they're just assume that the gaunt, black-robed Chancellor advising the elderly king is Evil. Maybe he's just irritable because he has to deal with peasants' BS all day long while his lord and master slips into senility.

Or if you have players who are either very well-versed or utterly ignorant of mythological tropes. For example, suppose they encounter an old, blind man who operates the ferry across the nearby river and who does his job while whistling a jaunty tune. In my games he's almost certainly someone with whom you do not wish to screw.

In fantasy games it's fun to put little side encounters for the players to deal with as a sort of Secret Test of Character. Maybe a lowly beggar asks for some money or assistance. How they deal with it will have consequences down the road. Perhaps the gods have been watching the whole time.

Actually it would be fun to put a lot of those minor encounters in the game, and then at the end of the campaign they meet their divine patron face to face, and s/he runs down the list of all the times they acted like dicks.

One puzzle I'm proud of involved a magical room. You walked into it, and the floor was transparent over a bottomless abyss. Over the door was inscribed something like, "Only a fearless fool may pass". If you stepped into the seemingly-empty abyss, you'd be walloped by the invisible golems who guarded it. They key of course was to simply walk through totally unarmed. Only one player had the balls and smarts to figure that one out.

What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly.
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#227: Apr 8th 2013 at 9:53:26 AM

So... score one for monks?

Foolish for taking such an abjectly awful class!

stevebat Since: Nov, 2009
#228: Apr 11th 2013 at 12:35:11 PM

Did you know that 6 angry jedis can literally drop bridges on people in the d20 setting?

Because seriously an entire planned encounter around sneaking, destroyed when the NPC member dies and all the players decided that today was a good day to play with the Telekinetic force skills

edited 11th Apr '13 12:36:26 PM by stevebat

Apocalypse: Dirge Of Swans.
CobraPrime Sharknado Warning from Canada Since: Dec, 1969 Relationship Status: Robosexual
Sharknado Warning
#229: Apr 11th 2013 at 12:39:00 PM

[up] Oh yes. Learned that in a game that 4 guys with move object as a force power can wreck havoc

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#230: Apr 11th 2013 at 8:18:12 PM

Please, one bastard force user breaks any balance that may have existed in Star Wars D20. Not that I should be talking, what with the Ace Pilot I created that could out dogfight dedicated interceptors in a cargo hauler.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Matrix Since: Jan, 2001
#231: Apr 11th 2013 at 9:30:38 PM

@Tomu: Score one for monk splash ascetic rogues! Not terrible!

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
TimurAmir from Appleoosa Since: Feb, 2012
#233: May 5th 2013 at 1:09:30 AM

I love my players to death, but sometimes it can just be so annoying.

My current party is entirely new to Tabletop RP Ging, a fact I knew when I entered into it (albeit, I was not exactly eager to, but who someone has to make the game, and while I have very little experience I have far more than they), but I am really hoping they pull their act together soon. They have no situational or tactical planning, and tend to throw themselves around spontaneously, forcing me to feed them plot hooks as they retreat into their natural state of apathy, confusion, and infighting (they said they wanted an open campaign, so I made them one, and now I have to somehow convert it into a linear one without letting them realize it, or so suffer the wrath of bored and uncertain players. They forget their character sheets constantly, never read anything, and trying to get them all in one session is like herding cats.

It is not overeagerness that plagues them, nor is it extreme caution. It is a strange combination of both that leaves them unable to really do either, but simply stalls them. They are distrustful and reject anything NP Cs give them, and make rash decisions, but their brief moments of boldness quickly give way to indecision, and they can rarely operate as a party. As for combat...

The wizard continually forgets she has a spells list, rarely ever using magic and primarily taking potshots with a crossbow. The Bard has a similar issue, and the two of them act as a fairly poorly equipped firing squad that continually fires into the backs of the rest of the party and is always on the retreat.

The monk never actually punches but prefers to throw rocks and attempt to heal her friends. She takes lots of damage very quickly as she gets in ranged matches she can't possibly win, refusing until she has overwhelming odds to actually close for melee.

The ranger is quickly learning to not shoot her friends when grappling monsters, but is the only one who actually uses her primary weapon in combat.

The rogue meanwhile has sunk all her skills into bluff and social skills, and now resigns herself to keeping out of the way of combat. I am encouraging her to try and find new ways to use her skills, but it will take time.

The second rogue, fighter, and druid all fail to actually show up regularly, so who knows how they actually fight.

Hopefully this latest dungeon-their first real battle that goes beyond a single encounter in regards to combat- will force them to start doing more than standing in a line providing ranged fire, and maybe start taking advantage of the environment or their own abilities in creative ways.

I'm just worried that I am pushing them. Maybe this is how they want to play, and therefore should be facilitated? Should I 'punish' them for their total lack of organization or tactics, or simply facilitate it?

Kayeka (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#234: May 5th 2013 at 1:27:44 AM

Obviously, they don't know how the game works. Try to educate them a little, perhaps allow them to adjust/redo their character build. If they complain about railroading, tell them they can have an open campaign as soon as they've proven they can handle it.

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#235: May 5th 2013 at 12:59:28 PM

My biggest annoyance is that all too often, my players just want to run up and shoot the villain in the face.

This is a "badguys monologue" campaign. Stick to the genre you prats! BLARGH!

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#236: May 7th 2013 at 11:19:51 AM

Shut Up, Hannibal! is a fairly popular response to a villainous monologue, especially among audience members who've consumed enough media in which it appears to have grown tired of the way the protagonists almost never actually do it when given the opportunity. If your players are insistent on using the monologue as an opening to fire a Sneak Attack, consider crafting such scenes around situations that would actively prohibit them to do so; deliver monologues via intercom/telepathy, or when the party is captured and tied up, etc.

A proper villainous monologue can add a lot to the story, but in order for it to work, the circumstances surrounding it need to be a safe environment for the villain to just stand there and rant. Expecting the protagonists to sit back quietly and let the villain finish talking will ultimately end in disappointment if the characters themselves have any say in the matter.

edited 7th May '13 11:20:25 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Bluespade from Fort Worth, Texas Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
#237: May 7th 2013 at 11:32:11 AM

I prefer to craft scenes where the players and villain meet face to face in a peaceful circumstance before hand, so that they can get a feel for their personality.

Then when its time for the fight, the they can each just have one or two quick lines and get down to it.

Villainous Monologues tend to lose the players interest quickly, unless you write them in such a way that they fish for and incorporate PC responses into the monologue, so that it's more of a debate than a monologue.

Fight. Struggle. Endure. Suffer. LIVE.
Lawyerdude Citizen from my secret moon base Since: Jan, 2001
Citizen
#238: May 7th 2013 at 11:44:22 AM

Some other possible scenarios would be if the villain has hostages or the MacGuffin locked away somewhere, so if you attack him you'll never learn where they are.

I also did a scenario where the villain (who they'd just learned was a villain) was a sorcerer who had a once per day teleportation spell bound into a ring in case he needed to escape. Heroes say, "Enough of this, attack!" and he just goes Poof.

In that case, the villain was trying your standard early-stage response to heroes. First, try to bribe them to either go away or join you. Second, warn them that they're in over their heads. Finally, threaten them with horrible things if they continue to persist. I like the old, "I have no quarrel with you. Walk away now and nobody gets hurt. But if you continue to meddle in my affairs I will have no choice but to destroy every last one of you."

edited 7th May '13 11:53:12 AM by Lawyerdude

What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly.
Quantumawsome Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#239: May 26th 2013 at 6:52:45 AM

I have a great group with which I play Paranoia, but there is one problem that I run in to every time, which is that they are all too nice. One of the key parts of Paranoia is having the players backstab and murder each other, but no matter what opportunities I give people, they always seem to work together.

TriggerLoaded from Canada, eh? (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
#240: May 26th 2013 at 2:22:45 PM

[up] Well, if they're working together, clearly they are not fulfilling secret society missions. Make sure they suffer demotions or worse for not completing their missions. And, of course, have the whole team interrogated by IntSec. The WHOLE team cooperating without any traitors revealed in their midst? Clearly they must be an entire group of Communist Terrorists working their way up the system.

Don't take life too seriously. It's only a temporary situation.
RevenVrake from Not Here Nor There Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#241: May 27th 2013 at 9:51:46 PM

I'm not a DM but another player at our casual game and our biggest problem is meta gamers. This is sorta a newbie frendly game meant to get more people into D&D, but a lot of them don't understand roleplaying that well.

Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#242: May 27th 2013 at 11:49:44 PM

@Quantumawsome:

  • Make the players' goals outright incompatible with each other. If necessary, arrange different players to get different mission goals from the employer.
  • Appoint the most socially-inept player to the leadership role (one reason for an unhealthily-stable Paranoia group, in my experience, is a strong leader who can get everyone to actually try to complete the mission).
  • Don't forget to award players who betray each other with Perversity points. Remind everyone that they survive only so long as they entertain the GM.
  • If that fails, throw outright impossible missions at the players and remind them that Friend Computer does not tolerate failure, so make them start pointing fingers, throwing each other under the train, and building up grudges.
  • On the flip side, don't scare them too much. You don't want them to have to rely on each other to succeed, and you don't want them to pull together in a crisis. Encourage and reward Leeroying whenever people start planning too much.

Quantumawsome Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#243: Jun 6th 2013 at 6:54:58 PM

Those are good tips. Thanks.

KyleJacobs from DC - Southern efficiency, Northern charm Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
#244: Jun 20th 2013 at 11:00:12 PM

Ugh. I just had what was supposed to be an hour and a half of game stretch into an entire 5 hour session.

So I'm running an all-undead-party Legend game, because Legend lets you do that, and it's the first session. I figure I'll amplify the what-the-fuck-is-going-on-here of the party suddenly waking up and finding that they've become undead by having it happen smack in the middle of a battle. So far, so good. There were about 16 NP Cs involved in said battle, but the party was only fighting 7 of them. And they were all Mooks. Literally. There's rules for making cannon fodder.

4. HOURS. LATER. The fight finally ended. The next hour was spent supposedly over how to proceed, but really just waiting for everyone to type back.

*Headdesk*

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#245: Jun 20th 2013 at 11:05:36 PM

Sounds like you've got yourself some shitty players.

RevenVrake from Not Here Nor There Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#246: Jun 21st 2013 at 10:53:57 AM

Players don't complain about railroading when the land mines on ether side of the track are quite clear and obivious...most of the time.

Our DM was running a training senario and had four little goblins in front of the game, and he told us "Don't attack them, they're getting ready."

What do they do? They attack all out as soon as he says it.

And then the goblins combined into a giant monster and started chasing them, it was funny [lol]

RedM Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
#247: Jul 6th 2013 at 9:39:35 AM

So, I'm G Ming for the first time. I asked my family if they wanted to try the Star Wars Roleplaying game, and surprisingly, they're all getting pretty into it. They're all first-time players. I know my way around a set of dice, but it's my first time as GM. Any advice?

The very best, like no one ever was. Check out my Spider-Man fanfic here! [1]
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#248: Jul 6th 2013 at 10:19:27 AM

Well, this isn't really the thread for that...

I mean, this is the "G Ms complaining about how horrible their players are" so you're likely to get everyone telling you to disintegrate them with the Neo Death Star Mk 2.

edited 6th Jul '13 10:19:55 AM by TheyCallMeTomu

EviIPaladin Some Guy Or Something from Middle-Of-Nowhere, NS Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: Noddin' my head like yeah
Some Guy Or Something
#249: Jul 9th 2013 at 9:19:06 AM

Oh god, pro-tip 1: Either all Jedi or no Jedi. They break the game in ways that you could not possibly imagine.

"Evii is right though" -Saturn "I didn't know you were a bitch Evii." -Lior Val
Lawyerdude Citizen from my secret moon base Since: Jan, 2001
Citizen
#250: Jul 9th 2013 at 11:53:29 AM

Depends on the system you're using and your story ideas. I've used both the d6 system from West End Games and the d20 system that came out in the early 2000s. The last time I ran one of those games it wasn't the fact we had Jedi that screwed the game, it's that everybody kept making hideously bad and nonsensical decisions. I think I recounted this story somewhere else, but:

We had a party of four, Old Republic era; a pilot, the ship's engineer, a young Consular and a young Guardian, I think. They had been dispatched to do a covert investigation of a mysterious armada that had come out of nowhere and seized control of a small backwater planet.

They are allowed to land, in the spaceport city and are given a description of the layout: The commercial area, the government district, and the residential quarter. Where do you want to go first? So naturally they decide to go to the city slums and buy drugs, because the ship's engineer was a cyborg with a drug problem. After a scuffle with a gang of thugs, they visit a spacer bar and overhear somebody talking about how the invaders are hiring freighters to run cargo to the fleet in orbit. So they sit around and do nothing. Then one of the invaders' officers shows up asking about their ship. So they pick a fight with the officer and his bodyguards.

I don't like Railroading, but I wonder if the players were allergic to Adventure Hooks. "Hmm, we're undercover as a freighter crew. These guys we're supposed to investigate are moving mysterious cargo and want to hire a freighter crew. THEY MUST DIE!"

edited 9th Jul '13 11:56:34 AM by Lawyerdude

What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly.

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