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Is my character a Gary Stu?

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Digirod WHAT THE SHINING JEBUS Since: May, 2009
WHAT THE SHINING JEBUS
#1: Nov 28th 2010 at 9:45:51 PM

In my stores, one of the main Characters is called Mein Zauber, but recently, I wonder if I have made him into a Gary Stu. The setting for these stories is in a kind of urban fantasy setting. I'll add more to this list as time goes on.

  • He's in his 30's.
  • His name means "My Magic" in German. Characters referring to him say the whole thing.
  • He's a wizard, a spell caster. He got his powers from his staff. This doesn't mean that he needs that staff to cast spells.
  • He can cast spells right off the bat, with no amount of training whatsoever
  • Sometimes, thanks to his magical staff, he can learn to cast spells he never cast before just from observation or by thinking of it.
  • The above applies to mostly offensive magic. He isn't a "jack of all trades" character. For example, he is incapable of healing.
  • He can fly in a setting where not many people have the power of flight.
  • He has a group of followers fanatically devoted to him.
  • I consider him to be chaotic neutral. He's sometimes a bit of a jerk, but I don't consider him a Jerk Stu, because he does get called out on it.
  • He has absolutely no memory of his past, due to an accident.
  • I put limitations to the extent of his magic abilities. For example, Even though he can learn how to do spells quickly, sometimes, he has to actually practice at mastering them and using them properly. Or there are some spells that would leave him tired, which would be very bad for him in the heat of battle. And he can only fly as fast as he can run.
  • In my stories, with very few exceptions, when someone dies, that person doesn't come back. He just happens to be one of those exceptions. I'll spare you the details.
  • He has no fighting abilities whatsoever. Find a way to disable his magic, and he's completely screwed.

edited 30th Nov '10 9:48:40 PM by Digirod

GenericGuy Since: May, 2010
#2: Nov 28th 2010 at 9:52:49 PM

Sorry but he Sounds a bit sueish to me. The best advice I can give is work hard on the side characters, so long as the rest of the cast has a lot of screen time the overpowered guy won’t seem like he is taking over the show.

"If you make people think they’re thinking, they’ll love you; but if you really make them think, they’ll hate you." —Don Marquis
drunkscriblerian Street Writing Man from Castle Geekhaven Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: In season
Street Writing Man
#3: Nov 28th 2010 at 10:06:57 PM

Agreed, you aren't there yet but you're getting into debatable territory. It will largely depend on how you present him, but maybe reducing the coolness factor would also help.

If I were to write some of the strange things that come under my eyes they would not be believed. ~Cora M. Strayer~
Digirod WHAT THE SHINING JEBUS Since: May, 2009
WHAT THE SHINING JEBUS
#4: Nov 28th 2010 at 10:31:44 PM

"Sorry but he Sounds a bit sueish to me. The best advice I can give is work hard on the side characters, so long as the rest of the cast has a lot of screen time the overpowered guy won’t seem like he is taking over the show."

If it helps matters, he can hold his own against normal mooks (just like every other main character), but some of the more experienced, powerful spellcasters can and have wiped the floor with him. But I do concede to the fact that he probably gets the most screen time other than the main protagonist.

edited 28th Nov '10 10:32:16 PM by Digirod

SalFishFin Since: Jan, 2001
#5: Nov 29th 2010 at 5:02:27 AM

What a character can do doesn't automatically mark him as a Sue, you know. It's what you do with what he can do, if that makes sense. Inigo Montoya, Aang, Harry Potter, and a bunch of others have some incredibly damning Common Mary Sue Traits, but have such strong characterization that everyone (myself included) overlook them and don't cry "Kill It with Fire" on them.

Yej (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
#6: Nov 29th 2010 at 7:09:30 AM

Sometimes, thanks to his magical staff, he can learn to cast spells he never cast before just from observation or by thinking of it.
Beyond the Impossible + Awesome by Analysis = Major Suspension of Disbelief break.

And yeah, he's starting to sound Sue-ish, since he's apparently exempted from most of the "rules" of the universe. (Like non-flying, resurrection, etc) Unless there's a explanation for all of that, like he's the descendant of a god/Sourceror/other incredibly powerful being, it would start breaking believability.

But also what Sal Fish Fin said. He can have all the powers in the world, but he won't become a Sue unless he has major involvement in the story. (Think Tom Bombadil.)

edited 29th Nov '10 7:09:46 AM by Yej

Slan Since: Nov, 2010
#7: Nov 29th 2010 at 11:10:16 AM

he has to actually practice at mastering them and using them properly.

This alone keeps you from crossing into Stu territory... depending on how long he actually has to practice. If he is the protagonist and masters any spell within two days, Stu.

If he can master certain spells within two days, but struggles with others for weeks/months/years, he goes from Stu to "believably talented".

edited 29th Nov '10 11:10:47 AM by Slan

Digirod WHAT THE SHINING JEBUS Since: May, 2009
WHAT THE SHINING JEBUS
#8: Nov 29th 2010 at 8:06:59 PM

"Sometimes, thanks to his magical staff, he can learn to cast spells he never cast before just from observation or by thinking of it."

I should've mentioned this before, but I didn't have the time. >_<

When I said this, it applies mostly to offensive magic: Fireballs, ice bolts, lightning, magic missiles and the like. He isn't a "jack of all trades" type of wizard, he just specializes in offensive magic. While he is capable of casting some non-offensive magic, like teleportation or magic shields, there are just some things that he'll NEVER be able to do, no matter what, such as healing, raising the dead, or turning people into animals.

And he isn't the son of anyone that could use magic. He's just some guy who got his powers from a staff.

edited 29th Nov '10 8:08:25 PM by Digirod

Slan Since: Nov, 2010
#9: Nov 29th 2010 at 8:37:31 PM

So, what is the reason he doesn't have any physical combat skills? Is he too arrogant to think that anyone will disable him despite everyone pointing it out (which is a big, big de-sueifier)?

Moreover, will this happen in-story and does he realistically struggle to adapt to the loss of his powers, get someone to retrieve his staff, or something similar so that he can grow as a character?

Digirod WHAT THE SHINING JEBUS Since: May, 2009
WHAT THE SHINING JEBUS
#10: Nov 30th 2010 at 2:00:19 AM

He doesn't have any physical combat abilities because he's not physically strong compared to the other main characters. (Unless he goes into an unstoppable rage)

Disabling his powers isn't as simple as taking away his staff. It used to be, back when he first got his staff, but not anymore.

There was an episode that dealt with this. He was separated from his staff during a time where his followers were in grave danger. Then he found out, to his surprise, that he can cast spells without his staff. He's been around his staff for so long, that the energies inside of the staff transferred to his body.

So now the source of his powers no longer lie within his staff, but within himself. He wasn't the first person to wield the staff and use its powers, he just happened to wield it the longest. Enemies who try to take his staff from him don't know this little tidbit. They find out the hard way. The staff itself is now powerless. Anyone else who tries to use it will get nothing. He does hold his staff when casting his spells. It's just that he doesn't really need to. He can easily cast those spells without it. He still wields it because he thinks it looks cool, and it has a pointy end, so he uses it as a spear at times.

So to disable his powers, one would need to use some sort of Power Nullifier, whether it be a temporary spell or an object. But yeah, your point about him being so arrogant that he doesn't consider this at times is right.

edited 30th Nov '10 2:12:27 AM by Digirod

Slan Since: Nov, 2010
#11: Nov 30th 2010 at 10:23:00 AM

He doesn't have any physical combat abilities because he's not physically strong compared to the other main characters. (Unless he goes into an unstoppable rage)

...Then he found out, to his surprise, that he can cast spells without his staff.

Stu.

petrie911 Since: Aug, 2009
#12: Nov 30th 2010 at 6:09:06 PM

^Yeah, I'm going to have to agree with that. New Powers as the Plot Demands is never a good sign, nor is the whole unstoppable rage thing. Combine that with what seems to be several rule breaking powers and no real flaws, and we've got ourselves a Mary Sue. And no, the inability to magically heal is not really a flaw unless it's something most people in the setting can do.

Now, a fairly good way to fix it would be to keep the staff as necessary to do his magic. And also make it so he doesn't have combat ability without it (yes, even during "unstoppable rage"). Is it a rather nasty limitation? Yes, yes it is. But that's a good thing. It gives him something to overcome, and definitly shouldn't be just taken away because it's convenient to the plot.

Lastly, how exactly is "Mein Zauber" an alliterative name?

edited 30th Nov '10 6:13:19 PM by petrie911

Belief or disbelief rests with you.
Digirod WHAT THE SHINING JEBUS Since: May, 2009
WHAT THE SHINING JEBUS
#13: Nov 30th 2010 at 7:07:52 PM

I'm sorry, alliterative was the wrong term to use. What I should've said was that his name is uncommon. It's basically a noun. Isn't that a Mary Sue trait?

His unstoppable rage is an ability that increases his powers and strength for a short while as a side effect of his magic. I don't suppose it helps matters that it very rarely happens and can work towards his detriment, because he doesn't think clearly and enemies can take advantage of this to outsmart him, does it?

If it seems like I'm making this up as I go along, I'm not. I wrote character bios and everything. I first thought of him long before I even knew what a Mary Sue was.

I recently took various Mary Sue tests and I got something like "has sue-like traits but not quite a sue" on every last one of them. I'll consider taking away his staff as an option. If anyone else has any ideas on how to decrease his sueness factor, I'd really like to hear it.

edited 30th Nov '10 11:41:18 PM by Digirod

Faramir I really need a job... from Just before a Deadline. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: What is this thing you call love?
I really need a job...
#14: Dec 6th 2010 at 10:07:30 PM

Pretty Sue-ish. I say turn him into a parody of himself for Comic relief. And try not to use Easy Amnesia in many characters.

Or.

Put him in a conflict he can't solve. To paraphrase Writing Excuses:Your character can be as powerful and competent as you want him to be, as long as he is powerful and competent in an area other than the main conflict. ie: Your character can be able to fly, make spells up, and to all-around uber-powerful things, as long as your story is about, say, cooking, romance, school life, parenting, medicine, inter-fantasy-species relations, etc. As long as his power doesn't make him a Game-Breaker, and you round him up a lot, it should be alright.

Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, you can't sell him fish anymore.
Ultrayellow Unchanging Avatar. Since: Dec, 2010
Unchanging Avatar.
#15: Dec 11th 2010 at 1:12:38 PM

If you ditch unstoppable rage, and make him powerless without the staff (or at least less powerful), he's totally fine. If you want to do even more, put him in fights where he is the weaker person, and have him be saved by someone else's intervention. I'm not sure what's going on with your main character, but if s(he) eventually surpasses your other character, that'll make them even less Stu-like.

But the biggest thing about a Gary Stu is how you handle them. As long as your character doesn't seriously warp the story around them, they can't be a Stu. A Gary Stu is a character who is badly written, and who wins for no reason besides Plot Armor or gains sympathy they don't deserve, and wouldn't get in reality.

Except for 4/1/2011. That day lingers in my memory like...metaphor here...I should go.
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