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NateWinchester Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Sinking with my ship
#176: Oct 27th 2011 at 4:26:56 PM

That's what I liked most about it: a story examining that just because a universal translator may let us hear the words, doesn't mean we'll understand the contexts, idioms etc.

EDIT: And Chuck (in the latest firefly review) mentions Supernatural! Hurrah!

edited 27th Oct '11 5:45:38 PM by NateWinchester

thatguythere47 Since: Jul, 2010
#177: Oct 27th 2011 at 6:54:43 PM

They could have done darmok another way. The fluff of mass effect has the vorcha be a race that communicates primarily through violence. Wouldn't the episode have been that much better if instead of trying to talk to Picard the alien would smack him upside the head to say hello?

Is using "Julian Assange is a Hillary butt plug" an acceptable signature quote?
BorneAgain (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#178: Oct 27th 2011 at 6:58:55 PM

[up]

That's a race tailor made for Enterprise. Archer getting a breakthrough in communication via some alien stomping on his head could have only improved that show.

eX 94. Grandmaster of Shark Since: Jan, 2001
94. Grandmaster of Shark
#179: Oct 27th 2011 at 7:16:45 PM

Jaynestown review is up.

Good episode, all in all, but I wished he had talked more about Jayne's view of himself in regard to the sacrifice of the young man, because I thought that was one of the best aspects of the episode.

edited 27th Oct '11 7:16:55 PM by eX

Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#180: Oct 27th 2011 at 7:17:18 PM

I don'y see that metafor based language as stupid.

So how do you do math, calculus & engineering (which ya'd need to become a Warp-capable civilization) through metaphors and storytelling? And this is a race whose ships are a match, if not superior, to the Enterprise.

As I said, it's a good episode, Picard needing to overcome a linguistic barrier to reach an agreement with someone through a trial by fire works. It works really well. Just that the reason behind it are stupid.

It's as dumb as the interpretive dance aliens from Voyager, which he's already mocked and proclaimed his hatred for.

They could have done darmok another way. The fluff of mass effect has the vorcha be a race that communicates primarily through violence. Wouldn't the episode have been that much better if instead of trying to talk to Picard the alien would smack him upside the head to say hello?

Sooo, Klingons again?

edited 27th Oct '11 7:20:11 PM by Ghilz

thatguythere47 Since: Jul, 2010
#181: Oct 27th 2011 at 7:55:32 PM

The klingons were physical, but they didn't base their communication on it. Although the image of a klingon hello being a dive tackle is amusing.

Is using "Julian Assange is a Hillary butt plug" an acceptable signature quote?
Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#182: Oct 29th 2011 at 7:50:11 AM

DS9: Call To Arms Review, kicking off a 7 week long view of the start of the Dominion War.

edited 29th Oct '11 7:50:24 AM by Ghilz

BornIn1142 from Estonia Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
#183: Oct 29th 2011 at 8:02:37 AM

I'm surprised he gave it a 7. I expected an 8 or even a 9.

Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#184: Oct 29th 2011 at 8:09:25 AM

well this whole arc has some REALLY good episodes in it too. Plus he seems to save those scores for beyond exceptional episodes. Heck he gave Indisacretions a 5 O_o Still its a great review!

Can't wait for Favors The Bold / Sacrifice Of Angels

edited 29th Oct '11 8:11:05 AM by Ghilz

thatguythere47 Since: Jul, 2010
#185: Oct 29th 2011 at 9:25:22 AM

<3 DS 9. The first season was really meh but by season 4 almost every episode was great.

Is using "Julian Assange is a Hillary butt plug" an acceptable signature quote?
Seraphem Since: Oct, 2009
#186: Oct 29th 2011 at 9:28:25 AM

Ok,,I gotta re-watch this episode, kinda missed a good chunk of the middle cause I was to busy laughing my ass off after the "League of Starship Captains" bit.

BornIn1142 from Estonia Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
#187: Oct 31st 2011 at 7:15:16 AM

The Blade Runner review is up. He went into a lot of detail discussing themes and symbolism this time. Quite a few good jokes as well, including a hilarious reference to MLP.

edited 31st Oct '11 8:00:14 AM by BornIn1142

NateWinchester Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Sinking with my ship
#188: Oct 31st 2011 at 3:26:19 PM

Huh, and Matthew has started his blade runner review too. http://www.confusedmatthew.com/Blade-Runner.php

I wonder if this was planned.

Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#189: Oct 31st 2011 at 3:39:40 PM

Probably, Chuck mentions Matthew's review.

'course it'll be a long, cold day in hell before I bother to watch whatever Confused Matthew has to say. The man's voice and ego irritates me.

NateWinchester Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Sinking with my ship
#190: Oct 31st 2011 at 4:15:01 PM

Well he is (so far) praising and lauding BR. Would that improve anything?

Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#191: Oct 31st 2011 at 6:59:04 PM

No ? I don't dislike him for his opinions. He's free to like or hate whatever, and god knows I don't expect or want critics to agree with my taste (I disagree with some of Chuck's judgements too).

My reasons are simply, I don't find CM interesting to listen to, or even pleasant. Simple as that.

NateWinchester Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Sinking with my ship
#192: Nov 1st 2011 at 5:57:19 AM

Fair enough.

Now let's talk about something more important: When can we get Chuck to review Q's episode of MLP:Fi M?

Tyyrlym Jerk from Normandy SR-2 Since: Mar, 2011
Jerk
#193: Nov 3rd 2011 at 11:59:16 AM

I don'y see that metafor based language as stupid. They propably first know meanings of methaphor and later they learn about those stories.
Except you've created a chicken or the egg scenario. How do they learn the meaning of the metaphor without the story? How do you tell a story with nothing but metaphor? And we see the Tamarians on their ship, they all talk in metaphor.

So, what is the metaphor for "Course 312 mark 11, warp 6," or "set phasers to frequency 54.87 terrahertz,"? A purely metaphor based language doesn't work once you've moved passed the point where your entire population is a single tribe of hunter/gatherers. They have to have a non-metaphor based language to even construct the metaphors in the first place and if your metaphors aren't working why not use the non-metaphor based part of your language? Never mind that relying on metaphors their entire species can understand means their language development halted right after the first tribe of sapient Tamarians got large enough to need to split.

Even the ending proves how stupid the whole thing is. They reduced the entire encounter on El Adrel to "Picard and Dathon at El Adrel." Well guess what, the only way to relate that to their language is to "Darmok and Jalad at Tamagra," completely wiping out any special meaning Picard and Dathon at El Adrel might have had since the only way they can relate it to the rest of their species is to use a neolithic metaphor.

IT'S STUPID. It makes quite possibly one of the best episodes of Trek as a whole almost unbearable to watch because of how stupid it is. It's such a perfect episode that so encapsulates everything Trek is about and yet it runs smack into one of the stupidest contrivances in the history of Trek to do it. So in one episode you've got the best of everything Trek is about lashed irrevocably to an example of the worst offense Trek committed on a regular basis.

I'm surprised he gave it a 7. I expected an 8 or even a 9.
The thing to remember about Chuck's rating system is that all episodes are rated in the context of their series. So for a DS 9 episode compared only to other DS 9 episodes it's a 7. If you wanted to compare it to Voyager it's probably a 9, Enterprise it's a 13 because you have to compensate for the automatic -3 you have to assign to Enterprise as a whole just to keep it in the same frame of reference. So yeah, in the whole of Trek canon it's a good 8, maybe even 9, but against DS 9 only its just an above average episode. After all, it has to compete with "In the Pale Moonlight."

My reasons are simply, I don't find CM interesting to listen to, or even pleasant. Simple as that.
He's not really as entertaining as many other reviewers. Guys like Chuck or the crew at Channel Awesome tend to spice things up with a lot more humor than CM. Now I think if you want a real good breakdown of a movie I think CM does an even better job than most because he doesn't do the humor and therefore has more time to get deeper into things. Chuck I think hits the nail on the head for serious commentary spliced in with good comedy. I have to care about a movie, either loving it or hating it, to listen to CM do his thing. I will happily listen to his thoughts on Blade Runner (Love it) or Transformers 3 (loathe it) but when it comes to something like Kill Bill, meh. The movie was lackluster to begin with. Listening to CM rip on it for an hour will just remind me how much I disliked it but without entertaining me like Chuck or CA.

Now let's talk about something more important: When can we get Chuck to review Q's episode of MLP:Fi M?
If you've got $50 to drop on it I'm sure he would. He's already stated that MLP actually does fit in with the theme of shows he reviews.

edited 3rd Nov '11 12:00:18 PM by Tyyrlym

"Tyyr's a necessary evil. " Spirit
Seraphem Since: Oct, 2009
#194: Nov 3rd 2011 at 1:29:30 PM

[up] I tried watching CM, stopped very quickly, I just can't stand him. It's one thing to not like a movie, it's one thing to bash every possible failing of the movie you can find. But when you start going out of your way to find failings that don't exist. And i'm not talking about find ways to interpret events so they look worse then they are, I'm talking about bitching about plot holes that are clearly addressed in the movie.

I started at the beginning of his Blip archive, made it to the Matrix sequels and said fuck it, he's an idiot, when he started bitching about how it was a massive plot hole that in 2 they said they would need every ship they had to help fight the machines, but the battle sequence in 3 had no ships. WHISKEY! TANGO! FOXTROT! it was only a massive plot point at the end of 2 that every ship that was in there armada was taking out by Bane!Smith before the fight started. That just proved he doesn't care about reviewing or addressing issues, he just wanted to bitch, be it about real or imagined stuff.

edited 3rd Nov '11 1:30:20 PM by Seraphem

Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#195: Nov 3rd 2011 at 2:14:08 PM

As I said, my dislike of CM has nothing to do with his opinions, or humor. I do watch/read serious reviews too (and heck, too much humor/storylines/whatever annoys me too. Part of the reason I stopped watching Linkara).

Anyway, your words on Darmok encapsulate my opinion about it. It's a GREAT TNG episode, in terms of themes. But it is centered on such a stupid gimmick that falls apart the more you look at it.

Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#196: Nov 3rd 2011 at 2:38:09 PM

But another flaw I did want to point out regarding Darmok is that metaphores based on stories have various meanings to various people. Take the one Troi suggests:

'Juliet on her balcony'. Does it mean...

  • ... Romance?
  • ... Love?
  • ... Starcrossed Lovers?
  • ... Foolish teenage infatuation?

Or let's pick another, say, 'Luke and Vader on Bespin'. What comes to your mind when I say that?

  • ...Revelation of a previously unknown family revelation?
  • ...Shocking Plot Twist?
  • ...Amputation of a hand?
  • ...Fighting between father and son?

How do they even agree on what a metaphore means so it becomes standard amongst their species? What if half the crew decided "Picard and Dathon at El Adrel" means "overcoming linguistic barriers through cooperation", while the other half of the crew decides it means "One person bravely gives his life to give another a better understanding of his people"? How do they sort that out?

edited 3rd Nov '11 2:38:30 PM by Ghilz

DeathCloud Since: Apr, 2009
#197: Nov 4th 2011 at 4:12:12 AM

Whatever, I still liked that ep. I can't wait to see his review of it. Did he confirm to donator if he choose to do review?

As for CM (I mean Confused Mattew, don't confuse with Complite Monster or Cutie Mark :P) I don't think this tread is good place to talk about him (even if Chuck mentions him few times), I hate this guy but better complain about him in tread CM (if he have one).

Tyyrlym Jerk from Normandy SR-2 Since: Mar, 2011
Jerk
#198: Nov 4th 2011 at 10:09:56 AM

I like the concept of Darmok and the overall plot and theme. I love it, I think it's a 10 all the way. Then you bring in the metaphor and it's a 1. What you wind up with is an episode that's not so bad I turn it off, but not so good I stop whatever else I'm doing to watch it.

And if you don't really care about this well... you're probably not going to like Chuck's review because this is exactly the kind of thing that he will harp on and rip.

"Tyyr's a necessary evil. " Spirit
DeathCloud Since: Apr, 2009
#199: Nov 4th 2011 at 11:52:16 AM

[up]There no Chuck review what I dislike.

Seraphem Since: Oct, 2009
#200: Nov 4th 2011 at 1:52:34 PM

[up] same, only really one review I can think of that I thought was just 'meh', Twin Peaks and I didn't think it was bad, just, not as good as any of his other reviews, not even sure why.


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