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redandblack64 Since: Nov, 2010
#1: Nov 23rd 2010 at 1:57:47 PM

What if there were 3 different worlds that had humans who were Negroid on one, Caucasoid on the other, and Mongoloid on the last, due to adaptation? And what if each of these planets follow philosophical and theological 'truths' that were irrefutably true on their own worlds, but totally false on the others? And what if these worlds existed in alternate universe, and were connected through wormholes? What do you think?

kassyopeia from terrae nullius Since: Nov, 2010
#2: Nov 23rd 2010 at 4:02:41 PM

I'm thinking Planet of Hats. Cubed.

Of course, if that's an explicit premise, it sort of pre-empts some of the main objections to that trope. But you should go out of your way to explain just why those three planets are exceedingly more uniform than Earth is, to keep things plausible, IMO.

Soon the Cold One took flight, yielded Goddess and field to the victor: The Lord of the Light.
redandblack64 Since: Nov, 2010
#3: Nov 23rd 2010 at 5:14:53 PM

The worlds are basically composed of what I'm taking the source material from. The Negroid world will have environments based on South, East and West Africa, as well as Australia and Oceania. Caucasoid will use Europe, North Africa, the Middle East/West Asia and the Mediterranean as a base. Mongoloid will use Asia, the Pacific Islands, and North and South America as a base. The planets will be a 3rd the size of Earth, and will all be the same size as each other. As you can see, there will be different ethnic groups and races within those basic groups.

The Negroid world will generally have warmer, wetter climates. Caucasoid milder, and Mongoloid varied.

GenericGuy Since: May, 2010
#4: Nov 23rd 2010 at 5:32:39 PM

Given the world's are only 1/3 the size of earth I can tell you right now they're not going to look human for long, more like giant twig men.

"If you make people think they’re thinking, they’ll love you; but if you really make them think, they’ll hate you." —Don Marquis
redandblack64 Since: Nov, 2010
#5: Nov 23rd 2010 at 5:57:01 PM

Really? Why? Does it have anything to do with gravity?

Carbonek13 Student Eternal from the Deep South Since: Jan, 2001
Student Eternal
#6: Nov 23rd 2010 at 6:11:47 PM

Honestly? Sounds rife with potential Unfortunate Implications, and reminds me of one of Barney Gumble's quotes from The Simpsons

Barney: "I'm just saying that when we die there's going to be a planet for the French,a planet for the Chinese, and we'll all be a lot happier."

And yeah, gravity is very important in shaping how a lifeform is built, so anything that adapts to 1/3 Earth gravity is going to effectively be a different subspecies after a few generations.

edited 23rd Nov '10 6:17:09 PM by Carbonek13

Machines were mice and men were lions once upon a time, but now that it's the opposite it's twice upon a time. - Moondog
redandblack64 Since: Nov, 2010
#7: Nov 23rd 2010 at 6:26:06 PM

^Huh. I posted this on other forums, and the Infortunate Implications Ive been told that will come up if I'm not careful is that 1) making one of the groups more right than the others, and 2) making the 'good guys' from one of the planets. Stereotypes must be avoided at all costs, too. This idea partly comes from the fact that all the humans in lots of fictional worlds are white or Asian. I figured, why not deconstruct that?

As for the gravity issue, I think the only way to fix that is via supernatural and devine intervention.

storyyeller More like giant cherries from Appleloosa Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
More like giant cherries
#8: Nov 23rd 2010 at 8:43:46 PM

I don't think the premise is possible to explain at all through standard evolution and physics. You're going to have to invoke magic/divine intervention/phlebotinum right from the start anyway.

And as long as you're using magic, why have them be on planets? Why posit wormholes?

edited 23rd Nov '10 8:45:12 PM by storyyeller

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Diamonnes In Riastrad from Ulster Since: Nov, 2009
In Riastrad
#9: Nov 23rd 2010 at 8:44:36 PM

Gravity, mind. The worlds could be 1/3 Earth's size and three times as dense. Willing Suspension of Disbelief is preserved, as far as I'm aware.

My name is Cu Chulainn. Beside the raging sea I am left to moan. Sorrow I am, for I brought down my only son.
storyyeller More like giant cherries from Appleloosa Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
More like giant cherries
#10: Nov 23rd 2010 at 8:46:31 PM

^ Nope, because there are a huge number of other issues to be considered. You can't just arbitrarily manipulate factors if you want to keep things scientifically possible.

For example, to make them 3 times as dense, you have to throw out standard nuclear physics. What exactly do you expect these planets to be made of anyway?

There's no reasonable way to make this Hard Sci-Fi, so why bother? Why not explicitly make it fantasy?

edited 23rd Nov '10 8:50:31 PM by storyyeller

Blind Final Fantasy 6 Let's Play
Diamonnes In Riastrad from Ulster Since: Nov, 2009
In Riastrad
#11: Nov 23rd 2010 at 8:53:48 PM

[up] Unobtanium, with a Phlebotinum atmosphere. I've noticed you have a tendency to declare it impossible to have sci-fi of any rating on the Scale besides one or ten. Consider that half of what scientists 'know' about the universe is actually theories that are based on other theories that are based on still more theories that we can't prove. Who's to say they are maybe not a hundred percent correct?

My name is Cu Chulainn. Beside the raging sea I am left to moan. Sorrow I am, for I brought down my only son.
redandblack64 Since: Nov, 2010
#12: Nov 23rd 2010 at 9:20:25 PM

Yeah, the physics are going to be different. The wormholes between the different worlds are basically distortions in space/time, and are the gates between worlds. I wouldn't know what causes them (maybe the big bad behind the scenes?), but they are a means for the characters to cross between the worlds. Think Chrono Cross with it's gate on Opassa Beach between Home World and Another World, but scattered all over those worlds. They can't be opened or closed through any of the magic. I haven't figured out the systems, but the magic systems are exclusive to each world, and don't work in the others. The gods/deities/spirits that created their universe crafted both the magic, and have control over physics in thier own universes. The magic is different, and wont work in the other 2 worlds as a result.

storyyeller More like giant cherries from Appleloosa Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
More like giant cherries
#13: Nov 23rd 2010 at 9:57:15 PM

^^ Because if you're not following standard physics, there's no reason to worry about gravity anyway. Occam's Razor would suggest that you don't bother mentioning details like the density and composition of the planets, unless they're important to the story for some reason.

edited 23rd Nov '10 9:57:47 PM by storyyeller

Blind Final Fantasy 6 Let's Play
redandblack64 Since: Nov, 2010
#14: Nov 23rd 2010 at 10:12:57 PM

I just read that sliding scale article, and thoght my story would be at 3 on that scale. Really, everything will bend to the story, and a consistent set of rules have to be established.

Diamonnes In Riastrad from Ulster Since: Nov, 2009
In Riastrad
#15: Nov 23rd 2010 at 10:34:37 PM

Occam's Razor would also suggest you don't worry about why the inhabitants of these planets aren't rails, but of course Tropers can't resist. I try to be an anti-deconstruction advocate when possible.

My name is Cu Chulainn. Beside the raging sea I am left to moan. Sorrow I am, for I brought down my only son.
kassyopeia from terrae nullius Since: Nov, 2010
#16: Nov 24th 2010 at 2:37:06 AM

In no way does hard science suggest that alternate universes have to have physical parameters identical to ours. So I don't see how positing that smaller planets in those alternates universes can have the same surface conditions as Earth makes the Sci any softer.

That said, it's virtually impossible to avoid messing up somewhere once you start actually explaining those differences in detail. Hence, as has been suggested, I'd definitely recommend ignoring the physics altogether and to rest safe in the knowledge that any objections to your setting would have to be based on ground just as shaky as the setting itself.

Soon the Cold One took flight, yielded Goddess and field to the victor: The Lord of the Light.
redandblack64 Since: Nov, 2010
#17: Dec 8th 2010 at 3:26:02 PM

I got some basic character ideas. The cast will be what you call a 5 man band. Here they are.

Character 1 is a Belly dancer from the warmer regions of the "Caucasoid" world. the design concept will be 'a young, naive girl who has a lack of decency at first'

Character 2 is a white hero/mercenary from a cooler part of the Caucasoid world. He's a bit self-centered and somewhat arrogant.

Character 3 is what you would call a crazy Asian. Due to a hidden problem, she annoys people, overreacts to everything, and sometimes loses her sanity (snapping in and out of it), only to come back and pretend nothing happened. This will be resolved and explained as she develops.

Character 4 is a Chess master who hails from a tribe on a remote part of the "Mongoloid" world. He doesn't put too much faith in the other main characters first, nor does he trust them.

Character 5 is a laid back guy from the "Negroid" world who's a bit lazy. Is a very skilled marksman.

Character 6 is an althletic chick from the same world (Negroid), who's a bit on the irritating side, but is the most optimistic here.

Well, what do you guys think? I'm trying to avoid making the characters caricatures or a flat stereotype.

Ettina Since: Apr, 2009
#18: Dec 9th 2010 at 11:04:54 AM

Character 3 sounds somewhat problematic. Can you explain more about her?

If I'm asking for advice on a story idea, don't tell me it can't be done.
breadloaf Since: Oct, 2010
#19: Dec 9th 2010 at 12:02:52 PM

Well if you wanted to avoid stereotypes you've kinda made them all sound stereotypical. Does char 2 also not jump very high? ;)

I'm not sure what your plot is meant to be but if it is a serious one I think people will immediately balk at the idea of having such "racist" planets. Maybe if you could explain more about what you are deconstructing?

redandblack64 Since: Nov, 2010
#20: Dec 9th 2010 at 1:59:45 PM

I still dont have any plots in mind (there's no antagonist, and all sides are good), but I did originally intend for it to be serious and taken seriously. What I meant by 'flat stereotype' was making these characters have these characteristics with little to no explanation or development. Instead, I wanted to make them SEEM stereotypical, but once you look closer and get to know them better, you'll see that theyre not. Yes, I am deconstructing these stereotypes by having them subverted and broken as they develop and interact with each other more and more. I don't have any backstory for any of them, as I still haven't built any of the world around them much. Anyways, will this still come off with a bad taste in the audience's mouth? If so, I could easily abandon these characters.

Ultrayellow Unchanging Avatar. Since: Dec, 2010
Unchanging Avatar.
#21: Dec 9th 2010 at 6:54:00 PM

You could probably avoid the problem by having the stereotypes pointed out in a racist fashion by other characters, who will clearly be wrong.

Except for 4/1/2011. That day lingers in my memory like...metaphor here...I should go.
redandblack64 Since: Nov, 2010
#22: Dec 10th 2010 at 2:47:00 PM

I'm having I problem with something else here. I said that the Caucasoid world would use the Middle East, N. Africa, West Asia, the Mediterranean and Europe as a base in all aspects. However, the religious 'truth' is hard to come up with, as well as the ruling god(s). I want to mesh Judaism & Christianity together right now, but I cant really figure out how I'll fit others in, such as religions others practiced by those in Rome or Europe.

Ultrayellow Unchanging Avatar. Since: Dec, 2010
Unchanging Avatar.
#23: Dec 10th 2010 at 4:43:40 PM

That's going to be nigh-impossible. That region is way more culturally diverse (and your audience will know more about it). If you throw in ancient Rome, Greece, Germany, Scandinavia, Egypt, and Persia people will know way more about them than ancient Africa or the Americas. They would probably know almost as much about your Mongoloid world, though.

Except for 4/1/2011. That day lingers in my memory like...metaphor here...I should go.
redandblack64 Since: Nov, 2010
#24: Dec 10th 2010 at 6:34:21 PM

The "Negroid" world is basically a clean slate for me, because there are tons of blanks to be filled. The Mongoloid world is half blank, because it would include North and South American-like regions, along with all but West Asia and the Pacific Islands/Oceania.

As for the Caucasoid world, I cant help but think that there would (ultimately) be a single God, with the other gods either being false or demi gods, who are/were essentially humans who used the magic system/physics to attain such a status. This could apply to the earlier civilizations that were like Rome or Greece, or to the early civilizations of the regions like Europe. All while the "Middle East" has strictly followed the "true" God more closely. That would allow for some conflict on the world itself. Could that work?

joeyjojo Happy New Year! from South Sydney: go the bunnies! Since: Jan, 2001
Happy New Year!
#25: Dec 11th 2010 at 9:08:28 PM

You know my high school art teacher was a firm believe of Austrian philosopher Rudolf Steiner racial sciences,The material would made good inspiration for political questionable racial based theology.

edited 11th Dec '10 9:09:28 PM by joeyjojo

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