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Soble College Professor from Blackwell Academy Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
College Professor
Jul 16th 2017 at 7:44:13 AM

Occasional CT Ds marred my gameplay experience, and the quicksave doesn't persist across restarts(!!) so I got very fond of the manual save feature.

PC Master Race, represent.

Despite what Zero Punctuation said, I found the story of this game fairly heartwarming ...

My biggest problem with the game is that I didn't finish it.

It seems like this is the only one of the three that you didn't already know a lot about. That's kind of funny. And sad, because you missed that intense final battle with an OP!Eleanor on your side. I loved the heck out of that segment.

the retcon to Fitzroy's motivations, changing her from a self-motivated antagonist to yet another pawn of the Luteces. Grrr, stop it writers!

I recall her motivation being "find this guy for me Booker, wait where did he go?" and changing to, "Wait, there's another Booker? Ah well, off with his head."

I'm fuzzy on that part because I recall Booker and Elizabeth going to an alternate Columbia where they were able to find that person Fitzroy was looking for... except it didn't matter because they ended up in a universe where Fitzroy successfully lead a revolution alongside another Booker who'd died as a martyr, so she saw you and Elizabeth and decided that two Bookers "complicated the narrative." Elizabeth eventually kills Fitzroy but... isn't there still a version of Fitzroy waiting for Booker and Elizabeth to come back.

I have to assume I forgot something in-between, but the retcon of Fitzroy's motivation was supposed to make her more sympathetic. We don't know to what extent the Luteces were influencing her or for how long but, without that scene, Fitzroy just betrays you for the hell of it.

When you get to play as Elizabeth (conveniently de-powered because Plot!)

That was a pretty nonsensical portion of the story if you ask me.

it turns from a shooter into a stealth game, "coincidentally" when you play as a female character?. Yes, I know it's internally justified, but the implicit sexism is still present.

Of course, this same female character gets captured, beaten, and tortured by Atlas and crew on a consistent basis, and the ending has her willingly die to save a single Little Sister.

I mean when you put it that way. Admittedly it's the first time you play as a woman. I don't think the story would've worked if Elizabeth were a gung-ho action hero. That was part of the problem with Booker - he's just too good at murdering his way through a flying city with newly-discovered, supernatural powers that he barely receives any introduction to, in addition to using the skyhooks and flying around like a maniac fighting off armies of deranged townspeople. The original Bioshock made you feel cornered (at least until you were clubbing Big Daddies and snatching up children to increase your own power) for the first half of the game. After the initial chase in Infinite prior to finding Elizabeth I never really felt like Booker was in danger.

I mean it's unfortunate and it doesn't really affect what they could have done with Elizabeth and...

It does the whole "we're going to go back and explain gaps in the story between games" thing, which is always fraught with complications

I didn't care for this either. In hindsight I'm indifferent towards it, playing it, I was too wrapped up in the story's bittersweet conclusion to care, but somewhere in-between those two periods I was kind of annoyed that the entire point of the story was to A) conclude Elizabeth's story, and B) explain how Fontaine/Atlas got back to Rapture. Which, unless I'd forgotten an audio log in the first game, wasn't something that needed to be explained. By the time Jack arrives we can assume Fontaine went into hiding and Atlas emerged to wage war on Ryan.

why is she not doing anything at all during Bioshock and Bioshock 2, but come on: she's a godlike quantum superbeing there have to be better ways to accomplish what she wants!

My question is still what was Elizabeth doing during Comstock's flashback in Burial at Sea Ep 1. We see her standing on the other side of the portal where Comstock and another Booker are fighting over another Elizabeth, except this one died.

The end of Infinite was supposed to kill every Comstock and every Booker. Except it didn't. So was Elizabeth exploring the remnants and trying to stop Comstock? It seems like she's the reason that version of Anna died because the only other version we saw had her survive.

  • How was Elizabeth speaking to Comstock? Were the Luteces aware that Elizabeth was there, that she was an omnipresent being at the time?
  • Why did Elizabeth go through the entire "track this Comstock to Rapture, build myself a life there, lure him to one of the worst, most dangerous parts of Rapture and then let him be gruesomely murdered by a Big Dad" scheme to begin with? If she can teleport herself and Booker and Songbird to another dimension then can't she teleport herself and Comstock away?
  • And what about the Luteces. They were able to interact with Booker to some degree, offering his first shield at least. Couldn't they done more to help the situation since they felt guilty enough to offer cryptic hints to Booker and Elizabeth?

edited 16th Jul '17 8:11:55 AM by Soble

I was just wondering... if you'd like to spend the rest of your life in my Dark Room.
RainingMetal Make Rubinelle Great Again! from Eagleland Canada Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Make Rubinelle Great Again!
Jul 16th 2017 at 7:56:48 AM

Probably my two biggest problems with Bioshock 2 are the weapon order (Damn You, Muscle Memory! at its finest. Thankfully one can rebind the weapon keys, or use console commands to add weapons preemptively just before getting the hack tool) and the decisions that decide Sofia Lamb's fate. When it comes to how you treat the Little Sisters, the way you treat the three characters you can decide to kill or spare is absolute. Wouldn't it be better to make it a majority sway? That way I can spare Grace Holloway while having Eleanor kill her bitch of a mother.

Waifu fanboys need a life(u).
Fighteer Geronimo! from the Time Vortex Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Geronimo!
Jul 16th 2017 at 7:58:51 AM

It seems like this is the only one of the three that you didn't already know a lot about. That's kind of funny. And sad, because you missed that intense final battle with an OP!Eleanor on your side. I loved the heck out of that segment.
I got to the battle, just couldn't finish it. I gave up after it crashed while I was incrementally quicksaving so I wouldn't lose so much progress when it crashed. Irony!

As for Fitzroy, in the original story she is so caught up with "killing the seed of Fink" that she's willing to murder his child, and Elizabeth kills her before she can go through with it. In the retcon, the Luteces tell her to threaten the life of the child precisely so that Elizabeth would kill her — thus committing her first direct murder — as a means of forced character development. It completely rewrites the moral lesson of the event from, "It doesn't matter whose side you're on if you go drunk with power," to, "The entire universe focuses around Elizabeth."

I don't think the story would've worked if Elizabeth were a gung-ho action hero.
Oh, no question about that, but her ability to use tears could have been exploited in gameplay, even if she lost her godlike omniscience. After all, she's able to help Comstock/Booker in the first part of the DLC (admittedly before getting killed herself) in the same way as the base game. I know they were going for a darker, more hopeless feel to the game (and boy howdy did they succeed) but I don't recall a tranquilizer crossbow or an invisibility Plasmid being in the original games.

After the initial chase in Infinite prior to finding Elizabeth I never really felt like Booker was in danger.
What, you mean aside from being instantly brought back to life by either Elizabeth or the Luteces each time he "dies"? tongue Yes, I know, gameplay, but still...

The end of Infinite was supposed to kill every Comstock and every Booker. Except it didn't. So was Elizabeth exploring the remnants and trying to stop Comstock?
That does seem like the conclusion. Elizabeth has phenomenal cosmic powers and uses them... to track down every alternate Comstock in order to murder him brutally and cathartically. Seems a bit of a waste, especially since, this particular time, she fucks up and the girl that Comstock was trying to save doesn't get saved. In penance for this, she depowers herself in order to rescue her. It makes no sense, unless her experiences have literally turned her into a Death Seeker.


[up] In fairness, both games do that with the Plasmid order, and swapping them between hotkeys is so painful that I gave up. I find it rather funny that, while Bioshock Infinite changes things so you can only carry two weapons at a time, Burial At Sea lets you have all of them, but the only way to quickswap is via the weapon switching menu instead of via hotkey. Talk about bastardized design. And let's not even get into the fact that Infinite changes the default 'use' binding from E to F. There's a special place in Hell for anyone who does that. The DLC makes it weirder by having the 'get all' command from containers stay F even if you rebind 'use', and pressing E while a container is open swaps weapons even if you rebind that. Who designed this crap?

As for the ending, my understanding is that you get the best ending if you save all the Little Sisters and spare at least one of the characters. I murdered that double-crossing bastard who betrayed everyone, but spared the first character.

edited 16th Jul '17 8:26:56 AM by Fighteer

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RainingMetal Make Rubinelle Great Again! from Eagleland Canada Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Make Rubinelle Great Again!
Jul 16th 2017 at 8:19:26 AM

The base game did consider trying to use a separate key to gather things in a container to make sure that people knew what they were picking up (instead of looting everything willy-nilly). The problem with that is that there weren't really any items that you didn't want to pick up (excess ammo non withstanding).

For Bioshock 2's ending, here's the formula:

Rescue all Little Sisters = Good Ending. Harvest all Little Sisters = Bad Ending. Mix and match between the two = Neutral/Sad Ending.

Whether or not Sofia Lamb lives or dies depends on how Delta handles the three characters he can murder or spare, alongside how he treated the Little Sisters.

  • Rescue Little Sisters = Sofia Lamb only dies when all three characters are killed. Otherwise she is spared.

  • Harvest Little Sisters = Sofia Lamb only lives when all three characters are spared. Otherwise she is killed.

However you treat the three characters is subjective, as their fates only affect if Sofia Lamb lives or dies. Eleanor's attitude remains independent and only depends on the fate of the Little Sisters. Frankly, I find Sofia Lamb dying to be the better ending, but I have to kill Grace Holloway in order to do so (killing Stanley Poole and Alex the Great are easy "kill" choices).

edited 16th Jul '17 8:21:15 AM by RainingMetal

Waifu fanboys need a life(u).
Fighteer Geronimo! from the Time Vortex Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Geronimo!
Jul 16th 2017 at 8:21:26 AM

The only things you don't want to pick up from containers (usually) are cigarettes and alcohol, and the latter become kind of awesome when you get the Booze Hound tonic.

Also, yes, I spared Holloway and rescued all the Little Sisters, so I would have gotten the good ending if I'd gotten through that damn final battle.

edited 16th Jul '17 8:22:38 AM by Fighteer

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RainingMetal Make Rubinelle Great Again! from Eagleland Canada Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Make Rubinelle Great Again!
Jul 16th 2017 at 8:22:36 AM

However, in Bioshock Infinite there is no such thing as Booze Hound. Of course, only in the base game are smokes and booze absent from containers, hence why E is still loot everything in Columbia.

Also I never cycle through Plasmids via keys; I scroll through them instead. However, I always try to keep their order consistent (you can easily do so via the Gene Chambers): Electro Bolt, Incinerate, Telekinesis, Hypnotize every time.

Frankly I only consider the Good Ending to be determined by how you treat the Little Sisters. How you treat Holloway, Poole, and Alexander fall squarely into YMMV in my opinion.

edited 16th Jul '17 8:24:22 AM by RainingMetal

Waifu fanboys need a life(u).
Fighteer Geronimo! from the Time Vortex Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Geronimo!
Jul 16th 2017 at 8:24:05 AM

As far as I can tell, the DLC messing with the "loot all" hotkeys is a bug — it seems as if the container interface uses the default bindings regardless of whether you rebind the controls. Unless it's always the opposite of the one you bind, which I didn't care enough to check.

If you found the Gene Chambers' interface easy to use, more power to you... /shudder

edited 16th Jul '17 8:26:11 AM by Fighteer

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Jul 16th 2017 at 10:18:09 AM

That does seem like the conclusion. Elizabeth has phenomenal cosmic powers and uses them... to track down every alternate Comstock in order to murder him brutally and cathartically. Seems a bit of a waste, especially since, this particular time, she fucks up and the girl that Comstock was trying to save doesn't get saved. In penance for this, she depowers herself in order to rescue her. It makes no sense, unless her experiences have literally turned her into a Death Seeker.

It's actually quite possible that Elizabeth is a Death Seeker, though if that's the case there should have been more exploration of the idea. She also lampshades that personally murdering every spare Comstock wasn't the best plan, but she was enjoying it a little too much. "We DeWitts can never leave well enough alone."

Of course, just because a story mistake is lampshaded doesn't mean it's magically fixed. There were better ways to handle the "filling in the gaps" and having Elizabeth as a PC, not to mention the sexism inherent in killing off a female deity for the sake of some random guy. Basically any Deus ex Machina at the end to let her survive would have been justified. Like maybe she crawls her way to a Tear as she's dying and regains her god powers. I dunno.

RainingMetal Make Rubinelle Great Again! from Eagleland Canada Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Make Rubinelle Great Again!
Jul 16th 2017 at 10:21:57 AM

If you found the Gene Chambers' interface easy to use, more power to you...

The order of the Plasmids gets messed up when you upgrade them, but you can easily re-sort them at the Gene Chamber by selecting each Plasmid and putting them back in again.

Waifu fanboys need a life(u).
Soble College Professor from Blackwell Academy Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
College Professor
Jul 31st 2018 at 5:33:56 PM

So, a thought occurs.

How did Comstock know about Booker's false memories? He refers to the "debt" and calls Booker out on this. He's aware that Booker is here for Elizabeth.

But when we revisit the moment Comstock took Anna we see him as a younger man. We know that at least a decade has passed since Comstock last saw Booker since Elizabeth is grown. Comstock "banished" the Luteces sometime after stealing Elizabeth.

So did Comstock just happen to remember Booker and put the pieces together that this younger version of himself was the same Booker he took Anna from? I could understand that, but Comstock seems to be aware of Booker's manufactured memories.

Booker didn't know who Elizabeth was and believed he was there on the job. The only ones who knew the true story were the Luteces.

Ergo, the only way Comstock could have known about Booker's "debt" is through the Luteces. But since Booker didn't conjure the "debt" until after the Luteces were betrayed by Comstock and after they brought him to Columbia, I don't understand when Comstock would've found out about the "debt."

I was just wondering... if you'd like to spend the rest of your life in my Dark Room.
Fighteer Geronimo! from the Time Vortex Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Geronimo!
Jul 31st 2018 at 5:43:40 PM

Hmm, good questions. It makes me think a bit.

  • Comstock might have known about the disorientation of stepping through a tear because of what happened to Robert Lutece.
  • The Luteces might have told him that Booker would eventually come looking for Anna before he had them murdered.
  • Comstock is Booker, just from a different timeline. So it's possible that, upon entering the universe, both of them merged memories to some extent. Only Comstock was already there and so had some buffering against the experience.

Actually, now that I recall, most of the events of the game, up to and including the showdown in the airship, are depicted in the display in the airship's antechamber. So the Luteces must have shown Comstock all of it, up to and including the moment of his own death. Remember: at no point does he seem surprised to see what's going on, almost as if he's playing out some kind of preordained story.

Edited by Fighteer on Jul 31st 2018 at 8:46:14 AM

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Soble College Professor from Blackwell Academy Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
College Professor
Jul 31st 2018 at 5:50:28 PM

EDIT: Hold on a sec.

The Luteces might have told him that Booker would eventually come looking for Anna before he had them murdered

Prior to their deaths I can't imagine the Luteces would have been able to predict that.

Comstock is Booker, just from a different timeline. So it's possible that, upon entering the universe, both of them merged memories to some extent. Only Comstock was already there and so had some buffering against the experience.

Maybe.

Actually, now that I recall, most of the events of the game, up to and including the showdown in the airship, are depicted in the display in the airship's antechamber. So the Luteces must have shown Comstock all of it, up to and including the moment of his own death. Remember: 'at no point does he seem surprised to see what's going on, almost as if he's playing out some kind of preordained story.

Well that moment was kind of weird, but, I can't remember the Luteces having that sort of clairvoyance prior to their transformation.

Edited by Soble on Jul 31st 2018 at 6:07:31 AM

I was just wondering... if you'd like to spend the rest of your life in my Dark Room.
Fighteer Geronimo! from the Time Vortex Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Geronimo!
Jul 31st 2018 at 8:18:53 PM

What do you mean, clairvoyance? The Luteces can open tears to alternate universes, forwards and backwards in time, what have you. This is how Comstock acquired all of his prophetic knowledge.

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InkDagger Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Jul 31st 2018 at 9:30:48 PM

Correct, but the entire plot of the game is put in motion by the Luteces. If they could forsee their own betrayal of Comstock... isn't that kind of a problem?

Fighteer Geronimo! from the Time Vortex Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Geronimo!
Aug 1st 2018 at 3:29:17 AM

It's never fully explained how much the Luteces know about what is going to happen, both before and after their "deaths". They seem to be into this For Science! to an almost frightening extreme, and only give serious consideration to the morality of what they've been doing much, much later.

If I had to venture a pure guess, though, I'd say that observing themselves through their tear device would introduce too much strain or potential for paradox, so they avoid it. They know that Booker comes to Columbia to rescue Elizabeth, but not how until they do it it themselves.

Edited by Fighteer on Aug 1st 2018 at 6:30:43 AM

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Larkmarn Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
Aug 2nd 2018 at 8:21:47 AM

Also, Comstock spent a lot of time looking through tears. Enough that he was rendered unable to sire a child and his appearance was changed. The Luteces, by comparison, still looked normal at least despite their seeming more direct use of the portals.

Presumably, they basically used the tears on a utilitarian basis, "In, out, get knowledge/item/whatever." They used them for a purpose, for a goal. So happening to see Comstock's betrayal is unlikely. Their thought process was "we want to understand these tears and their potential."

Comstock, on the other hand, used them absolutely willy-nilly. He wanted to see everything and used them to an extent that it affected his body. His thought process was "I AM GOING TO SPEND EVERY SECOND I CAN LOOKING AT TEARS. FUCK YES."

Edited by Larkmarn on Aug 2nd 2018 at 11:56:32 AM

CharlesPhipps Author from Ashland, Ky Relationship Status: Lovey-Dovey
Author
Aug 2nd 2018 at 10:55:22 AM

BURIAL AT SEA feels like an enormous fuck you to fans, ironically.

Which is weird given the amount of fanservice.

I think it's because I actually came to care about Elizabeth and Booker.

Author of The Supervillainy Saga, Cthulhu Armageddon, The United States of Monsters, and Lucifer's Star.
odafangirl Indeed. from Land of Fun and Pain Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
Indeed.
Aug 2nd 2018 at 1:31:00 PM

Really? I felt the opposite. It was a perfectly tragic send off to a pair of tragic figures.

Despite my screen-name, ranting to you about One Piece is not my top priority.
Soble College Professor from Blackwell Academy Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
College Professor
Aug 2nd 2018 at 5:46:46 PM

I'm conflicted over Burial at Sea.

Pro's:

  • it's stylistically and thematically engaging - that art deco sh't never gets old
  • it connected Infinite to Bioshock in a way I hadn't expected
  • it gave us a look at pre-collapse Rapture that we'd never gotten before, as even the Bioshock 2 multiplayer had most of the areas beginning to succumb to crime and decay
  • Pretty good way to "end the franchise at the beginning" so to speak
  • revisited some of the iconic moments of the franchise - Jack killing his dog, Suchong being murdered by a Big Daddy
  • "we Dewitts don't know when to leave well enough alone" really got to me, as did Elizabeth's self-loathing
  • the conversation Elizabeth has with "Booker" in the elevator

Con's:

  • gave answers to questions I hadn't really asked in the first place. Like how Fontaine used the Lutece particle to get back to Rapture, and who the little girl that Jack was seen closest to in Bioshock's ending was. I didn't really need "Atlas gained the control phrase from Elizabeth through interdimensional wizardy and scheming" to make sense of Bioshock's plot. It felt very tacked on. That Elizabeth was solely responsible for Jack getting to Rapture seemed an arbitrary detail
  • Elizabeth's need for vengeance and the actual cause of her death feel more like character assassination than development - she develops as a character over the course of Infinite, on-screen, but the cryptic background events in Burial at Sea make her change in BOS feel contrived
    • to be fair this was a DLC that didn't have the same time or goals as the main game
  • took me awhile to decipher Elizabeth's motives and what exactly had happened between Infinite and BOS
  • it's a tired point, but, the explanation or lack thereof about why BOS Comstock and "Ghost" Booker doesn't help things
  • amazing how Elizabeth can take on dozens of Splicers with a little bit of prep, but during the entire walk over to Atlas she couldn't think of a way to turn the odds in her favor
  • ends the franchise on a depressing note

Edited by Soble on Aug 2nd 2018 at 6:20:28 AM

I was just wondering... if you'd like to spend the rest of your life in my Dark Room.
Aug 2nd 2018 at 6:07:12 PM

For me, Burial at Sea's ending had some power in the moment, but from the moment they started talking about Jack, if implicitly — I didn't really like it as a bridge. From the perspective of BioShock, it adds a needless complication that integrates oddly into the story. Conversely, from an Infinite perspective, it sacrifices Elizabeth to make Infinite feel like some sort of build-up to the first game. I don't need a happy ending, or a sad ending, but I didn't find it a fulfilling ending. I think I get what they were going for with Atlas being obviously going to betray you and yet you still not having much choice other than to work with him, though it was so blatant and without any twists on Elizabeth's part that she kind of comes off as gullible.

While I'm criticising, I didn't like some of the other rewrites concerning Fitzroy, either; while people faulted the Fitzroy turn, the rewrite is so on the nose and in the face of events in Infinite that it feels cheap. I'm also not a big fan of the idea that killing someone is going to help turn someone from a 'girl' to a 'woman' — the idea that this is some sort of big, necessary sacrifice on Fitzroy's part I find grating. I know the Luteces are already kind of morally ambiguous, but it really puts a sour light on things with them, too.

Still, I did have fun stealthing around Rapture (I went with 1998 Mode on my first playthrough since it seemed interesting), and admittedly while the stealth mechanics weren't deep and once you can straight-up turn invisible the tranqs are probably going to be enough to cover your occasional screw-up, I did still enjoy the ambience of the place. I don't really have a problem with revisiting Rapture, but the ending trying to tie the games so together undermined it all for me.

Edited by Lavaeolus on Aug 2nd 2018 at 2:11:13 PM

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Fighteer Geronimo! from the Time Vortex Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Geronimo!
Aug 2nd 2018 at 7:36:46 PM

I agree with all of that, especially my problem with the retcon of Fitzroy's motives and Elizabeth turning from a literal god to a weak stealth-FPS character who regularly gets the pulp beaten out of her by all the male characters. I'll give you that it's thematic, but damn if it doesn't peel back the empowerment message of the main game a tad.

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Aug 2nd 2018 at 8:01:10 PM

Yeeep. I can understand why they wanted that gameplay, but I feel like there could have been a better way of doing it. Like, god!Elizabeth is still out there doing stuff, but she created a small mortal instance to handle Rapture. And the way they retconned both games in order to connect them was similarly not good. I would have preferred if this was a different Rapture than the one we saw in Bioshock 1 and do something else with it. Maybe have Elizabeth beat Fontaine before he gets Jack, but show the city is still headed for ruin because Ryan's Objectivist utopia was doomed from the start.

Soble College Professor from Blackwell Academy Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
College Professor
Dec 2nd 2018 at 6:27:22 AM

Something I keep coming back to is how the deal with Fitzroy worked which I just now realize I asked some months ago at the top of this page, so nevermind.

Edited by Soble on Dec 2nd 2018 at 7:54:45 AM

I was just wondering... if you'd like to spend the rest of your life in my Dark Room.
InkDagger Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Dec 2nd 2018 at 12:46:45 PM

[up]x6

I would also argue that it continues the problem the original game had that Columbia relies too HEAVILY on Rapture's world building and characters with those problems being handwaved as "They're all In-Universe!Expies of each other!"... Which doesn't make the writing any better. You're just admitting that not only did you copy your old homework, but that you couldn't be bothered to put that world building into the game in the first place and relying on players to have played Bioshock in the first place to understand how this world works.

I also fully believe they set out with Elizabeth as a player character at the pitch... and then ran into the writing problem of how to challenge (and play as) a physical god and could only solve it by Bringing Her Down to Normal and damn the character consequences of it.

It might also be that the 'Elizabeth gets the crap kicked out of her constantly' problem might be an extension of that; They had an untouchable character that they had to bring down to normal and they had her get beaten a lot to make sure that they weren't keeping her too powerful, even if it undermined previous tones and themes of the character. They overcompensated.

https://www.ign.com/articles/2018/04/13/2k-studio-reportedly-developing-new-bioshock

BTW, apparently there's a sequel in development under the code name 'Parkside'. I don't remember if this was shared here before.

Protagonist506 from 'MURICA Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Dec 2nd 2018 at 1:39:57 PM

Part of the problem is how they handled Liz in the main game, too. Elizabeth was originally not going to know how to control her powers, and moreover-be actively harmed by misuing them. In fact, IIRC there were even going to have some sort of Karma meter around how much you pushed her into misusing it.

So I think if they had kept that mechanic, it would have made her better in the DLC as well-she can still have her powers but not be omnipotent. Though I think another issue is that they wanted to bring back hacking (and other stealth mechanics), a mechanic that was replaced in the main game with tears. One of my bigger complaints with Infinite is that the game got rid of hacking and the like.

This actually, I think, is the root of Infinite's problems: Columbia is meant to be something of a spiritual successor to Rapture (which itself is a spiritual successor to the settings of the System Shock Games), but in practice it's actually more like a Spiritual Antithesis. Rapture is a dead, claustrophobic place filled with insane monsters. You are late to whatever tragedy happened there and have to play detective. Columbia is a living, breathing city which is wide-open and populated by sane (if evil) humans.

Columbia is still what I call a "Shocklike Setting", though it is a bit of an unusual one. "Shocklike Setting" is the term I use to refer to a (usually abandoned) Crapsaccharine World, usually a Punk Punk dictatorship of some sort, with a major element being ironic juxtaposition of optimistic propaganda and a dead wasteland. Examples include Rapture, Aperture Science, Fallout's entire setting, and Wellington Welles.

"Any campaign world where an orc samurai can leap off a landcruiser to fight a herd of Bulbasaurs will always have my vote of confidence"

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