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No 40K thread yet? I'm surprised. Nay, shocked, shocked I say to discover there's gambling going on in this establishment...

I'm eagerly anticipating the imminent 5th Edition release, personally, but I was interested to know if anyone here plays and has a differing opinion on it. There are certainly plenty of people out there who seem to think that 40K 4th edition "only just" came out and that a new edition isn't needed. Anyone?


Warhammer Fantasy (including Age of Sigmar and WFRP) has its own thread here.

Edited by Mrph1 on Apr 22nd 2024 at 5:37:34 PM

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#45451: Oct 2nd 2025 at 8:11:25 PM

They still would stand out in that case.

Though Space Marine 2 does show just how cunning the sons of Magnus really are that they don't even need to appear in person to fool you. Hell, project Aurora was all Imurah's plan and even Guilliman was a pawn in it.

How do you even fight against someone who controls your perception of reality, and even whispers inspiration to trick you and leave you thinking that idea planted in you is your own?

That's the Changer of Ways for you, just as planned.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Oct 2nd 2025 at 11:11:43 PM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#45452: Oct 2nd 2025 at 8:12:50 PM

Though they still lost. That's also the Changer of Ways for you. It's all about looking clever while not actually accomplishing jack shit in the long run. Tzeentch is the God of Sophistry.

Edited by M84 on Oct 2nd 2025 at 11:13:44 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#45453: Oct 2nd 2025 at 8:16:14 PM

Hahahahahaha.... Titus has improved his lot and is now once again a celebrated hero of the Ultramarines.

The Changer of Ways indeed.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#45454: Oct 2nd 2025 at 8:23:29 PM

Tzeentch is Geedubs, confirmed.

Disgusted, but not surprised
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#45455: Oct 2nd 2025 at 8:26:55 PM

Right down to keeping the status quo stagnant so they can wring more out of it for as long as possible with some advancements here and there.

https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/screenshot_8391.png

Seriously, this shot doesn't really get discussed much, Titus is standing here among the Thousand Sons as if he belongs and Imurah seemed to know him intimately.

So I have no doubt that Titus improving his current situation and even getting back some trust from Leandros was by the design of Tzeentch.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
KRider Desire Grand Prix Entry from Origin System Since: Feb, 2021
Desire Grand Prix Entry
#45456: Oct 2nd 2025 at 8:32:22 PM

[up][up]At least it's better than imagining Tzeench as Vince Russo because until now I keep hearing Russo's voice whenever I imagine Tzeench speaking (complete with "Bro!" as a verbal tic) and it's a fate I don't wish upon anyone but the most vile humans.

Edited by KRider on Oct 2nd 2025 at 11:32:46 PM

Set! Avenge! "Henshin." Black General! Bujin Sword! Ready, Fight!
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#45457: Oct 2nd 2025 at 8:33:44 PM

Russo's more like Khorne.

Disgusted, but not surprised
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#45458: Oct 2nd 2025 at 8:36:07 PM

This talk makes me wonder how the other Chaos Gods are going to interact with Titus.

The Death Guard and Emperor's Children already have a history with the Ultramarines, so it's inevitable Titus will encounter the forces of Nurgle and Slaanesh.

Heck, the funniest part of all this was Titus WAS originally going to go renegade, maybe not Chaos, but renegade and form his own Space Marine chapter.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
LoneCourier0 The Wandering Geek from A Diverse Land (Unitroper) Relationship Status: How YOU doin'?
The Wandering Geek
#45459: Oct 2nd 2025 at 11:17:44 PM

So everything went according to Tzeentch’s keikaku?

"Cynicism is not realistic and tough. It's unrealistic and kind of cowardly because it means you don't have to try."
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#45460: Oct 2nd 2025 at 11:21:51 PM

Just as planned.

After all, he also schemes against himself and has plans within plans within plans.

We still don’t know how Titus is immune to Chaos corruption, the Ultramarines took a devastating amount of casualties in the game, and now Titus just happens to be in the esteem of the chapter and Calgar.

The problem with fighting Tzeentch is that even your victories serves the changer of ways, and that you can never really tell if you are a pawn or not even if you oppose him.

The sons of Magnus are clever like that, and they are one of the few Chaos Legions to score a terrible vengeance against their loyalist enemies.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Oct 3rd 2025 at 2:23:20 AM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#45461: Oct 2nd 2025 at 11:48:41 PM

A reminder that this is just headcanon, right?

Disgusted, but not surprised
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#45462: Oct 3rd 2025 at 12:16:41 AM

Its suspicions, the arch enemy is always scheming.

I really like Titus, but until we know why exactly he’s immune, we can’t rule out he’s a pawn of Chaos and there is suspicious symbolism.

Innocence proves nothing.

Even Guilliman was a pawn of the Thousand Sons. He was the one who approved of Aurora which had devastating consequences for his sons.

2nd Company took a lot of losses.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#45463: Oct 3rd 2025 at 12:22:56 AM

Okay, now it's getting deep into wild mass guess territory.

Just from looking at the game itself, it was a legit project attempting to use repurposed Necron tech to shut down Warp rifts. Imurah was able to opportunistically exploit the fact that said tech could also open Warp rifts with a simple change in polarity.

Edited by M84 on Oct 4th 2025 at 3:25:41 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
LoneCourier0 The Wandering Geek from A Diverse Land (Unitroper) Relationship Status: How YOU doin'?
The Wandering Geek
#45464: Oct 3rd 2025 at 12:25:43 AM

What was that bit about Titus becoming renegade?

"Cynicism is not realistic and tough. It's unrealistic and kind of cowardly because it means you don't have to try."
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#45465: Oct 3rd 2025 at 12:28:03 AM

[up][up] Imurah outright states he was the one who gave Leuze the idea in the first place right before killing him. The entire project was a trap by the Thousand Sons who knew how to exploit it.

[up]

“The game's director had plans for two more games; in the second, Titus would've been reinstated into combat under the Inquisition's control (presumably as a Deathwatch member) only to be declared renegade and exiled, and in the third game he would have rallied countless Space Marines to his side and formed his own Space Marine chapter.”

Though, I’m sure with how popular Titus is and that he’s an Ultramarine. He’s going to stay a good guy for GW’s brand.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Oct 4th 2025 at 3:28:34 AM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#45466: Oct 3rd 2025 at 12:39:51 AM

it wasn't exactly a full victory for Tzeentch either.

When you kill that Lord of Change at the end of the game, it's happening in a Warp Rift.

That means it suffered a True Death instead of simple banishment. That's a piece of Tzeentch that's permanently gone.

Not as bad as the Emperor burning Nurgle's Plague Gardens, but still pretty bad.

Edited by M84 on Oct 4th 2025 at 3:40:56 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#45467: Oct 3rd 2025 at 12:43:43 AM

Wait, is that what this is about?

Oooooohh.....okay.

Yeah this is less about THE GLORY OF THE CHANGER OF WAYS and more how paranoia inducing Tzeentch and his faction actually are.

Like, it's REALLY suspicious that Lord of Change doesn't speak at all when we've already met a Lord of Change who wouldn't shut up, we don't really see it die compared to Imurah who can be revived anyway if Tzeentch wants, and Tzeentch is fine with sacrificing pawns to advance his game.

I dunno Rogue Trader has me jumping at the shadows with how much the game loves screwing me over for being a decent person like saving refugees who turned out to be cultists.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Oct 4th 2025 at 3:45:00 AM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#45468: Oct 3rd 2025 at 12:46:22 AM

Space Marine II's writers clearly didn't want Imurah to be overshadowed by the Lord of Change. Hence why it's basically a glorified combat summon instead of an antagonist in its own right like Rogue Trader's Uog'Haik'Sameth. It doesn't even have a name.

Disgusted, but not surprised
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#45469: Oct 3rd 2025 at 12:49:35 AM

Yeah the Edge of Dawn.

But on the topic of paranoia inducing, it is super funny how suspicious Titus and his actions looks from an outside perspective.

Like, he and his team go to the astropath to send a warning message to Calgar, BOOM, Exalted Sorcerer is free to operate in real space.

Him and his men go to Lueze to stop Imurah, BOOM, Lueze is dead, and now there's a giant warp rift all over the honored dead's burial grounds.

And Calgar ended up right where Imurah wanted him because Titus sent the warning message.

Yeah we know Titus isn't knowingly working for Chaos, but oh my God.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#45470: Oct 3rd 2025 at 12:52:33 AM

The whole plot of the game wouldn't have happened if the Admech were more paranoid when it came to Drogan's power source. That thing caused Chaos Incursions in the first game and in the Boltgun spinoff. And they still tried to mess with it.

The power source has been a bane on Titus' life from the moment he first encountered it. Small wonder he wanted to destroy the damn thing when it shows up again in II.

Edited by M84 on Oct 4th 2025 at 3:54:25 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#45471: Oct 3rd 2025 at 12:56:46 AM

From a writing POV, it's a good example of how intimidating Tzeentch and his pawns can really be because it all started because Leuze assumed he figured out a way to a BETTER tomorrow by finding something that could close the Great Rift, and he wasn't even aware that Imurah was his muse.

And Guilliman signed off on this, none the wiser. So he unwittingly put his sons in danger.

You can never really tell which thoughts are yours, and which thoughts were planted in you.

It's a nightmare, you can't tell what's real or what isn't. Going mad from knowledge is part of Tzeentch's domains for a reason.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#45472: Oct 3rd 2025 at 12:57:53 AM

And Imurah own goaled himself in the process because said device actually could close rifts too.

Edited by M84 on Oct 4th 2025 at 3:58:02 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#45473: Oct 3rd 2025 at 12:58:46 AM

And then he was ruined at the EXACT moment he could have won.

Such are the whims of the Changer of Ways.

Or the Corpse Emperor.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
LoneCourier0 The Wandering Geek from A Diverse Land (Unitroper) Relationship Status: How YOU doin'?
The Wandering Geek
#45474: Oct 3rd 2025 at 1:04:16 AM

Even the aliens aren't safe.

"Cynicism is not realistic and tough. It's unrealistic and kind of cowardly because it means you don't have to try."
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#45475: Oct 3rd 2025 at 1:06:01 AM

Yeah, though I do find it interesting how Khorne approaches the Tau in contrast with the others.

Because of how the Tau are, he takes a more subtle approach in just empowering certain ones he finds have potential like a drug dealer who gives free samples.

It happened to the Fire Warrior, but so far Farsight is resisting.

Better hope he doesn't learn the truth about his sword.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"

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