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melloncollie Since: Feb, 2012
#7001: Sep 14th 2009 at 10:10:02 PM

.*cough*

I think a better argument would be that if you can imagine it you can't disprove it.

Zyxzy Embrace the mindscrew from Salem, OR Since: Jan, 2001
Embrace the mindscrew
#7002: Sep 14th 2009 at 10:11:40 PM

I preferred the argument that arose out of the belief that all thought are merely buried in the mind, that because God can be though of he exists. Fails to account for everyone else though.

What's the frequency Kenneth?|In case of war.
AFGNCAAP Not axe crazy I swear from Great Underground Empire Since: Jun, 2009
Not axe crazy I swear
#7003: Sep 14th 2009 at 10:14:17 PM

As one reading the Bible for the ancientness...I like things that sound ancient. Next will come similar texts from other religions.

Some writing.
Zephid Since: Jan, 2001
#7004: Sep 14th 2009 at 10:17:48 PM

I agree the premise is poor, but that's probably because Tzetze's using a shorthand version of the argument which lacks specifics. The argument usually goes something like this:

1. God is the greatest possible being. (by definition)
2. A greatest possible being has the greatest form of existence possible, or necessary existence, existence in all possible circumstances. (by definition)
3. It is at least possible that there is a God. (Whether in actual circumstances of fictional ones, still possible)
4. A God that exists in any circumstances exists in all (see premise 2).
Therefore
5. God exists in the actual world.
The reason why this argument's a thousand years old and not discarded yet is because it works from certain conceptions of God and what being a God is. If God is defined as a perfect, necessary being, than God not existing in any possible set of circumstances would be considered less than perfect. If you throw out those definitions, the argument ceases to function. Also, most people contest step 3's validity.

You could plug something else in other than "God" and get a similar result, but people would ask you upon finishing, "So why are duckbill platypusses necessary, again?" There's some theology behind it.

I preferred the argument that arose out of the belief that all thought are merely buried in the mind, that because God can be though of he exists.
The fact that it's possible to conceive of a perfect being suggests such a perfect being is the point of the argument. Of course, you get into "God is incomprehensible" and then one wonders if it's possible to conceive of such a mysterious deity, complex in so many ways and yet divinely simple. Boggles the mind.

edited 14th Sep '09 10:19:40 PM by Zephid

I wrote about a fish turning into the moon.
WilliamWideWeb (weaving) Since: Jan, 2001
(weaving)
#7005: Sep 14th 2009 at 10:17:53 PM

I just realized something.

You know how I Wanna Be The Guy counts the number of times you die?

If you took the number of times that you die between any two consecutive savepoints, add 1 to each of these numbers, and multiplied them, you would get an estimate for the number of times that you would die if you didn't have savepoints.

SHIKI is dead.
Nornagest Since: Jan, 2001
#7006: Sep 14th 2009 at 10:22:55 PM

Has anyone actually read Thus Spoke Zarathustra, by the way?

I don't remember much of it, but yes.

I will keep my soul in a place out of sight, Far off, where the pulse of it is not heard.
melloncollie Since: Feb, 2012
#7007: Sep 14th 2009 at 10:25:21 PM

It would be greatly appreciated if someone could paraphrase the main arguments for me, so I don't have to finish the book.

Yeah, I'm a lazy bum.

Zephid Since: Jan, 2001
#7008: Sep 14th 2009 at 10:28:03 PM

Nietzsche only wrote two, maybe three good books. I remember The Birth of Tragedy and On the Genealogy of Morals being good ones.

Thus Spoke Zarathustra = Christianity sucks for various reasons.

I wrote about a fish turning into the moon.
melloncollie Since: Feb, 2012
#7009: Sep 14th 2009 at 10:31:10 PM

They only had Zarathustra at my library just bugs me

Beyond Good And Evil any good? The Gay Science?

Blackmoon Since: May, 2009
#7010: Sep 14th 2009 at 10:31:16 PM

I appreciate, but don't particularly enjoy, historical or philosophical satire. Nor do I enjoy history in general. Nor politics. Nor mathematics. I like philosophy, but I disagree with Nietzsche. My passion is speaking foreign languages.

I sorta feel like I don't really fit in here. >_>

melloncollie Since: Feb, 2012
#7011: Sep 14th 2009 at 10:31:59 PM

I hear Nietzsche's technically not a philosopher.

So who do you like, then? :3

Wait wait wait. You mean, Zarathustra's a parody of The Bible, so it wasn't meant to be taken seriously... ? Err...

edited 14th Sep '09 10:32:58 PM by melloncollie

Zephid Since: Jan, 2001
#7012: Sep 14th 2009 at 10:34:55 PM

The Gay Science is good too. I knew I was missing one.

The problem with most of Nietzsche's middle period books (like Beyond Good and Evil and Thus Spoke Zarathustra) is that he's ranting more than he's writing (I don't know this specifically with BG&E). Some people like that, but most of the insightful stuff is in the earlier and later books.

edited 14th Sep '09 10:35:17 PM by Zephid

I wrote about a fish turning into the moon.
Blackmoon Since: May, 2009
#7013: Sep 14th 2009 at 10:35:51 PM

Honestly?

I like Descartes. I feel this puts me in poor standing with a number of philosophers.

I also enjoy the early Greeks. Especially Socrates. I also appreciate Aristotle, but I don't wholly agree with him on some points.

Nornagest Since: Jan, 2001
#7014: Sep 14th 2009 at 10:36:10 PM

I liked Beyond Good and Evil.

Also Sprach Zarathustra doesn't give much in the way of a coherent message, but it's full of aphorisms on Nietzsche's favorite themes: salvation through willpower, the need to distinguish oneself above the herd, and so forth. I wouldn't call it a parody of the Bible, but it's definitely a prophet story: the difference is that the prophet here learns to elevate himself.

I will keep my soul in a place out of sight, Far off, where the pulse of it is not heard.
melloncollie Since: Feb, 2012
#7015: Sep 14th 2009 at 10:41:51 PM

So basic themes are good, but writing is bad.

You know what, Zarathustra needs a remake. Preferably in comic book format with superheroes. jk, but really anything would be nice

^^ Aaaargh I don't know much about Greeks and now I look uneducated >_>. Descartes = dualism, yes?

edited 14th Sep '09 10:42:27 PM by melloncollie

Zephid Since: Jan, 2001
#7016: Sep 14th 2009 at 10:43:29 PM

And math.

I wrote about a fish turning into the moon.
Blackmoon Since: May, 2009
#7017: Sep 14th 2009 at 10:45:52 PM

Descartes = dualism, yes?

Yosh. *nod*

Fawriel Since: Jan, 2001
MadeofMeat Since: Jan, 2001
Zyxzy Embrace the mindscrew from Salem, OR Since: Jan, 2001
Embrace the mindscrew
#7020: Sep 15th 2009 at 4:41:23 AM

He was Enlightenment era. Got killed by long work hours in the Swedish winter.

What's the frequency Kenneth?|In case of war.
FreezairForALimitedTime Responsible adult from Planet Claire Since: Jan, 2001
Responsible adult
#7021: Sep 15th 2009 at 9:10:43 AM

I cannot stop giggling like a 12-year-old at the fact that Nietchze's works include titles such as "The Gay Science" and "Ecce Homo."

I am very easily amused.

edited 15th Sep '09 9:11:02 AM by FreezairForALimitedTime

"Proto-Indo-European makes the damnedest words related. It's great. It's the Kevin Bacon of etymology." ~Madrugada
Kinkajou I'm Only Sleeping Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Hiding
I'm Only Sleeping
#7022: Sep 15th 2009 at 9:34:56 AM

^ Seconding Freezair.

INT is knowing a tomato is a fruit. WIS is knowing it doesn't belong in a fruit salad. CHA is convincing people that it does.
Tzetze DUMB from a converted church in Venice, Italy Since: Jan, 2001
DUMB
#7023: Sep 15th 2009 at 3:30:07 PM

I come bearing news, tropers.

My school's big band (jazz), of which Solstace and I are members, is going places this year. Specifically, we'll be at competitions in New York City, Savannah, and a place in Louisiana that I keep forgetting the name of.

I say "[will] be", but that's only because I'm confident. We still have to enter the pre-competition-competition, qualifiers or something they're called. Last year we entered the Savannah festival and failed to enter the NYC festival.

In addition, my confidence this year is a bit weaker, since it relies partially on my being able to go from having a rudimentary knowledge of music theory to being able to improvise on a national level, with braces.

Fun stuff.

[1] This facsimile operated in part by synAC.
MadeofMeat Since: Jan, 2001
#7024: Sep 15th 2009 at 3:31:28 PM

If The Gay Science were a romance, I'd so read it.

occono from Ireland. Since: Apr, 2009
#7025: Sep 15th 2009 at 4:15:26 PM

I would too.

I like Dr. Pepper.

Dumbo

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