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Please be considerate and tag spoilers wherever possible.
  • Tag all spoilers for the latest episode, for any previews or content leaks, and for all off-topic works (e.g. if comparing a Doctor Who story to a Star Trek one)
  • Spoilers for a season finale (or for any standalone special or expanded universe story) should remain tagged for at least a month after it's released.

When including spoiler tags, try to write so that tropers can make an informed decision before viewing them (e.g. which show and episode will they spoil?).

(Mod edit to add spoiler rules)

Edited by Mrph1 on Jun 12th 2025 at 5:03:16 PM

Ultimatum Disasturbator from The Wiggle Room (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#109126: Jun 1st 2025 at 3:37:42 PM

https://youtu.be/3tJ7LGGpoZU?si=I60zNO2abiVpEto1

this music from the early seasons of doctor who intensives.

(spoilers obviously!)

Edited by Ultimatum on Jun 1st 2025 at 11:38:05 AM

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
WillKeaton from Alberta, Canada Since: Jun, 2010
#109127: Jun 1st 2025 at 5:41:46 PM

Boy, this dude who apparently created the Time Lords and who the entire two part episode has been about freeing sounds really cool. I sure hope he has more than five minutes of screen time and doesn't get beaten with no effort.

What's a Rani anyway? All the other Time Lords have titles. The Doctor. The Master. Doctors and masters are things, so one would assume Ranis are also something that exist.

Edited by WillKeaton on Jun 1st 2025 at 6:57:13 AM

EmeraldEmperor Lies and Violence! Since: Oct, 2020
Lies and Violence!
#109128: Jun 1st 2025 at 5:48:41 PM

Basically Indian for queen.

Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#109129: Jun 1st 2025 at 6:24:46 PM

A lot of Time Lords actually have normal names...well, "normal". Their actual names are long compound single names. So Romana is Romanadvoratrelundar and presumably Castellan Spandrell and Cardinal Borusa have extended names too. It kind of seems like only exiles have the title thing going on, because all four Time Lords with only a title for a name are exiles.

Okay, the Monk is never directly stated to be an exile, but given his hobby, he probably is. He probably doesn't even call himself that, he just never introduces himself anywhere in his TV stories.

Edited by Zendervai on Jun 1st 2025 at 9:27:25 AM

ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#109130: Jun 1st 2025 at 6:52:47 PM

One version of him got mad at Missy for calling him the monk, especially because he was in disguise as King Henry the 8th at the time.

DoctorSleep Since: Nov, 2013
#109131: Jun 1st 2025 at 8:03:39 PM

I can't help feeling like the writers made the ending so long and complicated out of a last-minute realisation that this episode was going to end with a black man walking away from fatherhood.

M1gamiTensei The Scrappy of the Trope Pantheon, God of Thumps from Punished “Brainwashed” M1gami Since: Oct, 2017 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Scrappy of the Trope Pantheon, God of Thumps
#109132: Jun 1st 2025 at 9:15:47 PM

RTD is really weird with ethnicity not on his own on Doctor Who. Shafted Martha so hard and sandwiched Fifteeth between David Tennant and Billie Piper. Also maybe cucked Micky but Micky got great character development. And Belinda got turned to a single mother through the plot and said it was always the case.

So, I find it weird now that Fugitive is being listed after Thirteen. We know she was introduced after but does that imply her "birth" was in Fugitive of the Judoon? Or the TARDIS just registers Fugitive after Thirteen in her own databanks

Edited by M1gamiTensei on Jun 1st 2025 at 9:29:27 AM

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HalfFaust Since: Jan, 2019
#109133: Jun 1st 2025 at 10:56:25 PM

Yeah, I've already seen a fair bit of commentary about RTD and race. I have been in the "Martha deserved better" camp for ages now, guess she's joined by Belinda.

I've also seen some interesting speculation that this story was originally intended for Ruby if she was a full two-series companion.

M1gamiTensei The Scrappy of the Trope Pantheon, God of Thumps from Punished “Brainwashed” M1gami Since: Oct, 2017 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Scrappy of the Trope Pantheon, God of Thumps
#109134: Jun 2nd 2025 at 2:29:35 AM

It is weird that we get more Ruby than Belinda this season. We at least know her actress wasnt shafted because difficult to work with or something, but we even have concept images of Lux being meant for Ruby and the Doctor.

I genuinely feel like RTD got rid of Ruby and had Belinda instead because he wanted the Poppy concept, but couldnt do it with Ruby. It matches with on the whim ideas this era has

Edited by M1gamiTensei on Jun 2nd 2025 at 2:30:13 AM

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DoctorSleep Since: Nov, 2013
#109135: Jun 2nd 2025 at 4:10:16 AM

On the whim is exactly right.

This finale eschewed the Doctor's Science Hero approach and made him another blockbuster hero. Facing down Omega by himself? Pull out a ray gun and just blast him into submission. Need to readjust the timeline? Use magic but don't call it magic.

Compare that to last year's finale where even with some magical accessories, the Doctor ultimately beat Sutekh by thinking ahead of him.

diddyknux (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#109136: Jun 2nd 2025 at 4:29:42 AM

Saw my entertainment news feed, would've done a spit take if I'd been a drinking seeing The Doctor regenerated into Billie Piper?

I'm not angry about it or something, just shocked.

Mrph1 he/him from Mercia (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: This is not my beautiful wife!
he/him
#109137: Jun 2nd 2025 at 4:58:00 AM

[up][up] There was the suggestion that his thinking ahead ensured the ray gun was there and ready to use, but that was an underplayed throwaway line.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#109138: Jun 2nd 2025 at 10:43:16 AM

I don't think it's a fake out. Simply because I don't see them going to all of this trouble for a fake out and I can totally see RTD doing this. I mean the guy brought David Tennant back.

Edited by Bullman on Jun 2nd 2025 at 12:45:03 PM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#109139: Jun 2nd 2025 at 10:48:58 AM

I don't think it's like a "hah, you fell for it, that's not what happened" thing, it's a "this did happen...but did it happen exactly the way it looks like?"

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#109140: Jun 2nd 2025 at 10:51:04 AM

[up] I mean. I definitely think there will be an explanation. I just don't think it like a trick that some are theorizing. I think it will be the case of "it did happen like it seemed but there is a reason for it".

Edited by Bullman on Jun 2nd 2025 at 1:04:21 PM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
M1gamiTensei The Scrappy of the Trope Pantheon, God of Thumps from Punished “Brainwashed” M1gami Since: Oct, 2017 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Scrappy of the Trope Pantheon, God of Thumps
#109141: Jun 2nd 2025 at 12:28:58 PM

It is weird that RTD changed the sonic because he said it was like a gun (okay we know the laser screwdriver exists but is pointing a stick as a gun the first thing that comes in mind?). But how we use the guitar pointed like a rifle with the trillion or something supernovas worth of firepower behind. Hell, the new sonic is shaped more like a gun

In fact, I find it weird in RTD 2, he went back a lot on things he’s proud of saying he’s changed. Robot Revolution become a disabled cyborg, similar to Davros who RTD changed cause he thought disabled villains were offensive. But he’s played straight and had his death actively reveled at.

I could be grateful about RTD changing his mind about Ncuti Gatwa regenerating in a skirt but Jodie Whittaker’s outfit was designed to be unisex in the first place

Edited by M1gamiTensei on Jun 2nd 2025 at 12:30:27 PM

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bn2000 Since: Dec, 2022
#109142: Jun 2nd 2025 at 12:30:33 PM

I've been reading other forums. Most likely, this is what happened:

The season 15 finale was originally supposed to be different. But for some reason, Disney decided not to invest in season 16 (perhaps because of the low ratings of season 14, but more likely because of its own skepticism about streaming platforms). Of course, the BBC will manage on its own. But the level of funding is no longer the same. They had to change plans, season 3 was in limbo.

After that, the central star of the show, Ncuti Gatwa, expressed her desire to leave. He can be understood. A person needs a secure place of work. But there are no guarantees here. However, the original plan was ruined. And Davies had to get out of it. He didn't turn to Billie Piper out of a good life. I don't think she's The Doctor. It's just a way to keep us interested and buy time to start over. Of course, I could be wrong, but I think that's the point. He's still not crazy enough to deliberately give away what we got in the end.

As always, it remains for us to wish the show good luck and follow the precepts of the Count of Monte Cristo.

Edited by bn2000 on Jun 2nd 2025 at 2:24:21 AM

M1gamiTensei The Scrappy of the Trope Pantheon, God of Thumps from Punished “Brainwashed” M1gami Since: Oct, 2017 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Scrappy of the Trope Pantheon, God of Thumps
#109143: Jun 2nd 2025 at 12:57:14 PM

Its hard to say good luck to a show its people are being burned this badly by it, even more than Chibnall, judging reactions I have seen outside of here. TVT and Tumblr are the only places I know that are still largely positive to the show. Its easy to dismiss them as grifters as RTD does, but people legitimately have problems. RTD is unchecked and proud of it, which a person cant deny even if they still like DW.

Audiences shouldnt be following the precepts of the Count of Monte Christo with the hope quality tv becomes stable again, you know? That isnt a healthy thing for an audience to run on

Edited by M1gamiTensei on Jun 2nd 2025 at 12:59:35 PM

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The10thGeek Mysterious Fan from Somewhere in England Since: Feb, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Mysterious Fan
#109144: Jun 2nd 2025 at 1:23:55 PM

[up][up]Erm… Ncuti Gatwa actually left because Russell T. Davies refused to let him film a deodorant commercial that would have paid him a heck of a lot more had he filmed the potential third season. He chose to leave in Feruary this year, which is when they filmed the reshoots (re the last 20-30 minutes of the episode, aka entire third act). The rest of what you wrote is all correct, as far as I can ascertain at this time.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from The Wiggle Room (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#109145: Jun 2nd 2025 at 2:07:16 PM

> Erm… Ncuti Gatwa actually left because Russell T. Davies refused to let him film a deodorant commercial that would have paid him a heck of a lot more had he filmed the potential third season

I'd like a proper source for this please

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
bn2000 Since: Dec, 2022
#109146: Jun 2nd 2025 at 2:15:59 PM

[up][up][up]Well, what can we do? Besides writing comments or stopping watching the show. Then the ratings will drop, and the situation will change to some extent. But fans can't film Doctor Who on their own. This means that those who continue to watch the show still have to wait and hope for the best.

The10thGeek Mysterious Fan from Somewhere in England Since: Feb, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Mysterious Fan
#109147: Jun 2nd 2025 at 2:28:58 PM

[up][up] I’m pretty sure that Andrew, aka Meglos, the same guy who leaked all those season 15 spoilers, confirmed it but I’m unable to see that post anymore. Anyway, apologies for that but here’s a link confirming why he left regardless

https://www.reddit.com/r/DoctorWhoNews/s/9Iutwj0NEO

M1gamiTensei The Scrappy of the Trope Pantheon, God of Thumps from Punished “Brainwashed” M1gami Since: Oct, 2017 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Scrappy of the Trope Pantheon, God of Thumps
#109148: Jun 2nd 2025 at 2:33:41 PM

What do you mean you cant film DW yourself? We have Mark Gatiss as the Doctor in a fanfilm. Hell, Big Finish started off making audiobooks with the DW actors and impressed BBC enough to get the license. You can find an excellent fanmade DW audiobook of Nine and Twelve on youtube. Creative avenues to express dont end because RTD wont give a chance to a new generation of fans to inherit the show.

Again, its a very unhealthy place for an audience to run on hope to be more beloved. I would say its cynical to put up with a show, just so you hope your favorite property doesnt get cancelled than put that energy to even just rewriting the season.

Edited by M1gamiTensei on Jun 2nd 2025 at 2:35:00 AM

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Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#109149: Jun 2nd 2025 at 3:07:12 PM

No, Ncuti Gatwa confirmed in a behind the scenes for the episode that the plan was always to be this long. I am going to trust him over some leaker on Reddit.

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Mrph1 MOD he/him from Mercia (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: This is not my beautiful wife!
he/him
#109150: Jun 2nd 2025 at 3:10:56 PM

Just the usual reminder:

  • Please cite sources when sharing news, rather than only providing them when others ask about the source.
  • It's important to distinguish between fact and rumour, especially when the source is a social media post from someone anonymous. This applies even if the source has a reputation for accuracy on previous leaks.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jun 2nd 2025 at 11:11:24 AM


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