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dmcreif from Atlanta, GA Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Jul 28th 2019 at 9:42:13 AM

[up] Off-topic, but there's one good "Series 3 and 4 with Rose" fic series that understood that concept very well and how Rose would be more than an extra body if she hadn't been trapped in Pete's World (and moreso when the series 4 rewrite adds Jenny to the mix).

But yeah, that's a thing that writers should always be careful about when a core team gets above a certain size: make sure each character has things to do and room to grow as characters.

Mroh Mroh from Utah Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
Mroh
Jul 28th 2019 at 10:20:01 AM

Is it just me, or does Ryan's character seem awfully wooden to me? I feel like there needs to be a little more character development in that area aside from finally calling Graham Granddad.

The Cartoon Connoisseur.
Jul 28th 2019 at 2:55:28 PM

Not irremediably so, but I see the point. Could maybe use some focus apart from Grace and Graham. Though, 'could use some more focus' is all three of them to varying degrees.

Mroh Mroh from Utah Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
Mroh
Jul 28th 2019 at 3:26:41 PM

It's funny how a lot of us enjoy the Doctor's new pacifistic nature but at the same time, we all want her to snap. Perhaps it's because most people see what characters are made of when they're broken.

The Cartoon Connoisseur.
Jul 28th 2019 at 9:03:19 PM

We know what its like when the Doctor snaps.

They use their hand.

Anyway, put me firmly in the "The Doctor doesn't need to be darker to be a stronger character camp."

Compared to 10, 12, and even 11, somebody like the 5th (whose moral compunctions made him hesitate more than most incarnations) or 8th Doctor (who is far more sociable and openly friendly than most) seem a lot 'lighter'. But that by no means makes them weaker characters.

Any sound can shake the air. My voice shakes the heart!
Ultimatum ◕ ◡ ◕ Disasturbator from England Relationship Status: Holding out for a hero
◕ ◡ ◕ Disasturbator
Jul 29th 2019 at 2:56:17 AM

Maybe the problem is that they have too many companions in the Tardis?

My Discord | My 🎨 blog|
Jul 29th 2019 at 4:21:17 AM

I think having three companions is really good, but series 11 just wasn't character focused enough to do anything with them.

Three companions has worked plenty of times in the past, Amy, Rory and River were a recent example.

And count me out of people who want to see 13 snap.

Like, I don't understand why people assume my call for 13 to take action against the monstrous people and institutions she meets is a call for violance. Direct action can be utterly non-violent. I LIKE that 13 is a pacifist. I just hate that she's seemingly no longer an actavist.

Mroh Mroh from Utah Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
Mroh
Jul 29th 2019 at 4:32:27 PM

I'll be honest here, my whole wanting 13 to be angsty is actually wanting her to make a big grandiose speech because I feel like that specific emotion behind said speech is what truly shows the character of a specific incarnation of the Doctor. Maybe that doesn't make any sense. I know I shouldn't define Doctors by their speeches or emotions during said speeches, but it's difficult to not do that. It's just that it's ended up being sort of a theme with the Doctor in at least the last couple of regenerations. Anyway, I'm sorry if I made it awkward. I understand where you're coming from though.

Edited by Mroh on Jul 29th 2019 at 5:56:57 AM

The Cartoon Connoisseur.
Jul 30th 2019 at 10:51:08 AM

Some Big Finish spin-off news: Catherine Tate is getting her own solo mini-series called Donna Noble: Kidnapped!, featuring her in four adventures, post "Silence in the Library."

Also, 8th Doctor companion Liv Chenka recently was in a story where the Doctor takes her back home to Kaldor, and of course things go wrong. At the end of that adventure, she stays on Kaldor for a year before the Doctor picks her back up (which takes all of a minute or so from the audience's perspective).

The Robots is a collection of 4 volumes that show what happened during that year in her life on Kaldor. Someone at Big Finish must love "Robots of Death."

Any sound can shake the air. My voice shakes the heart!
ZheToralf Floating Advice Reminder from somewhere in Germany
Jul 30th 2019 at 1:47:21 PM

dmcreif

there's one good "Series 3 and 4 with Rose" fic series that understood that concept very well and how Rose would be more than an extra body if she hadn't been trapped in Pete's World
can you please give a link? I would love to read that.

You lost!
Jul 30th 2019 at 2:30:28 PM

It's funny. The Sixth Doctor was seen as too dark (abrasive, arrogant, rude), so producer JNT they hired a comedic pantomime named Sylvester McCoy to play a Lighter and Softer Doctor. But then Sylvester and story editor Andrew Cartmel turned this Doctor dark in a different way, a Manipulative Bastard rather than acting like an outright jerk.

Edited by DS9guy on Jul 30th 2019 at 4:32:21 AM

kkhohoho Deranged X-Mas Figure from The Insanity Pole Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Deranged X-Mas Figure
Jul 30th 2019 at 2:34:11 PM

[up]Seven works because he always acts oh so nice and pleasant, even as he's setting you up to have your balls kicked in. He's dark, but not in a way that's readily apparent.

Sonic and the Freedom Fighters — Blue Horizon: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/12583620/1/Sonic-and-the-Freedom-Fighters-Blue-Horizon
Jul 31st 2019 at 1:38:36 AM

I like to imagine that between Dragonfire and Revelation of the Daleks, where the Seventh Doctor made that personality change between seasons, either he slowly becomes The Chessmaster though various adventures, with Ace noticing along the way, or he immediately reveals to Ace that the whole bumbling oaf thing was just an act for Melís sake.

Either way, I have this thought of Ace noticing that the ďProfessorĒ has stopped mixing up metaphors. tongue

I wonder if any tie-in media has looked into this.

Edited by DS9guy on Jul 31st 2019 at 3:48:38 AM

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from a handcart heading to Hell Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
Jul 31st 2019 at 11:01:29 AM

Yeah Seven is dark the way Eleven is dark, the hatred and darkness is locked away but itís always there, Nine is the opposite where heís actually got so much happiness and light hidden away,

I actually would consider 12 the darkest Doctor, because heís the doctor we see walk away from his name, not because heís making the best of a bad situation but because heís angry and wants something for himself. With the Clara situation heís basically 10 taken to the next level in selfish arrogance. 10 was a shitty person to Martha because of his heartbreak over Rose, but 12 strait up started murdering people because of his heartbreak over Clara, if 12 had lost Clara the way 10 did Rose heíd have ripped the walls of reality back open and dammed the consequences.

"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael "If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran
HandsomeRob Completely trustworthy from The world that never was Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
Completely trustworthy
Jul 31st 2019 at 11:03:50 AM

And as bad as 10 was, he never quite became Time Lord Victorious. At least not fully.

In hindsight, 12 might have come even closer to that than 10 did, and 10 had already crossed the line, even if only for a few seconds.

Everyone is XEHANORT
Mroh Mroh from Utah Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
Mroh
Aug 11th 2019 at 3:04:28 PM

HBO Max has apparently obtained exclusive streaming rights for Doctor Who and several other shows. Kind of hoping Amazon Prime can keep the right to continue selling the episodes.

The Cartoon Connoisseur.
dmcreif from Atlanta, GA Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Aug 14th 2019 at 5:14:57 PM

I got a question about "Journey's End": what if the Doctor and Rose's running reunion in the street at the end of "The Stolen Earth" wasn't interrupted by the Dalek? Or alternately, what if Rose and the Doctor were slightly slower, enough that Jack was able to show up and shoot the Dalek before it could shoot the Doctor (ir if Rose remembered she had a big gun on her and shot the Dalek herself before getting to the Doctor)? How would that change "Journey's End" (since the Metacrisis not happening would certainly mean an alternate resolution, wouldn't it)?

HandsomeRob Completely trustworthy from The world that never was Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
Completely trustworthy
Aug 14th 2019 at 5:43:28 PM

Huh.

The Meta Crisis (or namely the Doctor Donna) was integral in saving the day.

I guess they'd be screwed since without it, they'd have had no way to stop Davros.

Everyone is XEHANORT
dmcreif from Atlanta, GA Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Aug 14th 2019 at 6:09:50 PM

I honestly think that in lieu of the Metacrisis, Rose would become Bad Wolf once again. That's at least how the author of my favorite "series 3 and 4 with Rose" fic, Being To Timelessness, does it.

Come to think of it, that's one thing that's very apparent when it comes to the premise of "series 3 / series 4 with Rose": no matter how you cut it, the Metacrisis doesn't happen if Jack or Rose shoot that Dalek before it can shoot the Doctor, or, well, if Rose is reunited with the Doctor way before the stars begin going out.note 

Also, if there's no Metacrisis, it means there's no DoctorDonna, and Donna gets to keep her memories.

dmcreif from Atlanta, GA Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Aug 15th 2019 at 11:15:58 PM

From a writing standpoint, if Jack or Rose shot the Dalek before it could shoot the Doctor, I think Bad Wolf!Rose would be who saves the day in "Journey's End" instead of the Metacrisis and DoctorDonna. Bad Wolf had already taken care of the Daleks once. The TARDIS has a proven connection to Rose. It would make narrative sense for her to keep Rose with her when everyone else goes out onto the Crucible.

Not that the DoctorDonna didnít make sense, after a full season spent laying the groundwork for that. It definitely did. Iím just saying itís not the only logical way to solve the big plot conflicts of "The Stolen Earth" / "Journey's End".

Edited by dmcreif on Aug 18th 2019 at 10:52:59 AM

dmcreif from Atlanta, GA Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Sep 2nd 2019 at 7:56:53 AM

In fact, the author I'm referring to had another oneshot of how the Doctor and Rose's reunion would've gone if they'd been a little slower, allowing Jack to get to the Dalek first.

Zarius Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
Sep 2nd 2019 at 8:56:04 AM

I actually assumed he'd past some time ago. Dang. I'm curious what he thought of the revival era of Doctor Who.

Zarius Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
Sep 2nd 2019 at 9:10:06 AM

[up] He had some criticisms of it, but he wasn't above writing for the new series book range.


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