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Classic series, new series, Whoniverse, expanded universe... 'tis all welcome here.


Please be considerate and tag spoilers wherever possible.
  • Tag all spoilers for the latest episode, for any previews or content leaks, and for all off-topic works (e.g. if comparing a Doctor Who story to a Star Trek one)
  • Spoilers for a season finale (or for any standalone special or expanded universe story) should remain tagged for at least a month after it's released.

When including spoiler tags, try to write so that tropers can make an informed decision before viewing them (e.g. which show and episode will they spoil?).

(Mod edit to add spoiler rules)

Edited by Mrph1 on Jun 12th 2025 at 5:03:16 PM

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#46826: May 30th 2013 at 3:58:54 PM

I wonder how Matt Smith feels about people making fun of his chin. Especially the writers.

maxwellelvis Mad Scientist Wannabe from undisclosed location Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: In my bunk
Mad Scientist Wannabe
#46827: May 30th 2013 at 4:58:18 PM

[up]I want to see a facial comparison between him with shaved head and John Cena. See if I can tell the difference.

Of course, don't you know anything about ALCHEMY?!- Twin clones of Ivan the Great
Laura from Shintolin Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
#46828: May 30th 2013 at 5:12:27 PM

The Doctor being from the Land of Fiction is the best thing.

He's the Doctor. He could be anywhere in time and space.
TricksterCal I've got friends on the other side from Land of City and the Saved a.k.a. LOCATS Since: Jan, 2013
I've got friends on the other side
#46829: May 30th 2013 at 5:25:43 PM

This is late, but anyway.

No, he couldn't. Once you've read the book, you have to do what it said. The implication is that you would be physically unable to do anything but what the book says once you've read it. That's why he said the right line in the wrist breaking scene despite his desire to change it, right?

I don't understand how this applies to the book, but not to Rory, since they're pretty much the same thing. 1) Book is read, thing in book is unavoidable and must happen at specific time. Nothing can change this. 2) Person dies, that person's death is now unavoidable and must happen at that specific time. Nothing can change this.

If they were equal, then the Doctor could've just broken River's hands at a different point, which would magically break the paradox or something.

Also here you say that if they did anything differently, Wedding of River Song would happen. Why would this not happen with what Rory did?

edited 30th May '13 5:26:33 PM by TricksterCal

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#46830: May 30th 2013 at 5:33:10 PM

[up] Wibbly Wobbly, Timey Wimey.

Or Faction Paradox did it when they were bored.

Or one of the Guardians was bored.

Or Yog Sothoth was bored.

Or maybe Clara was bored.

Or Bad Wolf was bored.

Somebody got really bored and felt like fucking with the Doctor.

edited 30th May '13 5:33:22 PM by unnoun

Laura from Shintolin Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
#46831: May 30th 2013 at 5:40:57 PM

When Rory does what he does, he's trying to destroy everything.

I should really rewatch Crimson Horror. On paper I should like it muc hmore than I did. The lack of Clara and the setting (old timey Britain: meh.) brought it down a lot for me. Maybe going into it knowing that would help. Hmm...

He's the Doctor. He could be anywhere in time and space.
TricksterCal I've got friends on the other side from Land of City and the Saved a.k.a. LOCATS Since: Jan, 2013
I've got friends on the other side
#46832: May 30th 2013 at 5:41:18 PM

I would put it down to Timey Wimey stuff if they didn't put such emphasis on the book. And I would say it involved fixed points except both paradoxes occurred in the same time period.

Zarek Rollin' rollin' rollin' from Jakku Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Rollin' rollin' rollin'
#46833: May 30th 2013 at 5:43:38 PM

Wait, which part of the book do you think they should've contradicted?

"We're home, Chewie."
tparadox Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: The captain of her heart
#46834: May 30th 2013 at 5:49:06 PM

Now we're getting into "time travel works differently in every episode to serve whatever narrative the writer needs".

"Fixed point in time" is very handwavy, but there might be a range of predestination, from "whatever happens is cool" to "so many things hang on this that the universe will break".

If they don't do what the book says, time will break in accordance with how much the book affected history. Since it's a pulpy detective novel, probably not a great deal.

Rory saw himself die one way, then decided to avoid that by dying another way. If the death he was forced to see happened any other way, he might have broken time irreparably, but time just gets discontinuous for a moment until the paradoxes resolve and mostly work out (except for New York in the 30s being too brittle for time travel to touch again).

The Silence engineered the most ironclad Fixed Point they could. They chose a moment where not much time travel happens (or whatever "a still point" means). They made an event so major and bizarre it couldn't be overlooked or misinterpreted (they thought). And they made sure history documented it well. It's not the death of any ordinary time traveller who dies every other week, it's the death of the Doctor. The population of the universe is sure to react. Take it away, and the whole house of cards collapses. Time pancakes on itself.

Fresh-eyed movie blog
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#46835: May 30th 2013 at 5:54:46 PM

I think the main thing was that the Angels had already been breaking time in 1930s New York for a while.

edited 30th May '13 5:54:59 PM by unnoun

tparadox Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: The captain of her heart
#46836: May 30th 2013 at 6:03:56 PM

I think a large reason why Time didn't pancake when Rory jumped is because the Angels ate the paradox, which caused them to die and their scheme to unhappen, resulting in a more stable but still bruised timeline.

Fresh-eyed movie blog
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#46838: May 30th 2013 at 6:07:16 PM

I like to believe that the surviving alien had a horrible case of indigestion.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#46839: May 30th 2013 at 6:09:07 PM

Any Brits catch Wednesday's Newsnight, it had a section on Doctor Who and its history.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Medicus Sierra 117 from Australia Since: Sep, 2009
Sierra 117
#46840: May 30th 2013 at 6:29:55 PM

So River Song's fifth anniversary. That's neat. And it will piss off Medicus that the BBC still remembers she exists.
What the fuck? Why is the BBC celebrating River Song's anniversary? What about the fifth anniversary of the Tenth Doctor, or Rose, or the Ninth Doctor?

What the fuck is with the slavering devotion that Steven Moffat's Mary Sue/fantasy girlfriend gets?

(Medicus sez: don't violate the laws of causality kids, or you'll be forced to marry River Song!)
[tup]

It's not over. Not yet.
LMage Since: May, 2011
#46841: May 30th 2013 at 6:32:06 PM

[up]

Just accepting that the majority likes River Song, and hush your opinion to yourself. :3

Mukora Uniocular from a place Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Uniocular
#46842: May 30th 2013 at 6:34:20 PM

@Medicus: Do you know for a fact that they didn't celebrate those things?

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."
beorc Ridley and Ridley from hither and yon Since: Sep, 2009 Relationship Status: I know
Ridley and Ridley
#46843: May 30th 2013 at 6:53:35 PM

Wouldn't the anniversaries of Rose and the Ninth Doctor be the same thing? And anyway, their fifth anniversaries would have been in 2010, and it looks like that blog only started in 2012, so...

edited 30th May '13 6:53:44 PM by beorc

Welcome to th:|
Medicus Sierra 117 from Australia Since: Sep, 2009
Sierra 117
#46844: May 30th 2013 at 7:02:58 PM

Can we talk about Smith's new costume some more? It's amazing. :3

It's not over. Not yet.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#46845: May 30th 2013 at 7:04:07 PM

The one with the watch?

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
tparadox Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: The captain of her heart
#46847: May 30th 2013 at 7:08:29 PM

We're celebrating the 50th anniversary of the most important current character and the 5th anniversary of the other longterm current character.

Fresh-eyed movie blog
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#46848: May 30th 2013 at 7:10:48 PM

[up][up] I like his new shirt. He should keep that look for the rest of his tenure.

Yes I know it's cold as fuck in Wales. Don't actually care.

Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#46849: May 30th 2013 at 7:36:09 PM

Re: Paradox talk: I saw somebody on the Eruditorum before forth the idea that since paradoxes are inherently breakdowns in logic and violations of cause and effect, they do not- and indeed should not- act predictably. They may be a set of half-remembered, complicated equations in the Doctor's head that would give him some general intuitive grasp how things are likely to go, but from our perspective, it's simply easier to say that paradoxes break time in individualistic ways.

edited 30th May '13 7:36:52 PM by Gilphon

hcobb Since: Jan, 2001
#46850: May 30th 2013 at 7:50:32 PM

Hopefully the fans will put together a gender flipped Nurse Who so that the River-oid can say...


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