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Edited by Mrph1 on Jun 12th 2025 at 5:03:16 PM

DaeBrayk PI Since: Aug, 2009
PI
#276: Nov 18th 2009 at 6:23:45 PM

Oh... right... well... tiny one. Little bitty loop. Not even a paradox, really.

BobbyG vigilantly taxonomish from England Since: Jan, 2001
vigilantly taxonomish
#277: Nov 18th 2009 at 6:25:15 PM

A whole person spawned for no reason isn't a paradox? The Doctor said it was one.

Sorry, I'm being pedantic. I'm not a big fan of time paradox plotlines.

edited 18th Nov '09 6:26:01 PM by BobbyG

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DaeBrayk PI Since: Aug, 2009
PI
#278: Nov 18th 2009 at 6:29:04 PM

It's not "a whole person spawned for no reason." It's the doctor landing near a cloning machine for no reason. Other than that it would, in a likely future, clone him.

BobbyG vigilantly taxonomish from England Since: Jan, 2001
vigilantly taxonomish
#279: Nov 18th 2009 at 6:48:22 PM

But if it wasn't for Jenny, he'd never have gone there in the first place, and if it wasn't for him being there, Jenny wouldn't have existed.

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Tangent128 from Virginia Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Gonna take a lot to drag me away from you
#280: Nov 18th 2009 at 8:38:01 PM

But they both in fact did happen, so it's not a contradiction.

Do you highlight everything looking for secret messages?
BobbyG vigilantly taxonomish from England Since: Jan, 2001
vigilantly taxonomish
#281: Nov 19th 2009 at 3:59:52 AM

I'm pretty sure time can't possibly work that way, but OK.

This is why I wish they'd stop doing time paradox plotlines. They do my head in.

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MarcRS from over there Since: Nov, 2009
#282: Nov 19th 2009 at 12:41:05 PM

Bobby G, the Doctor appears to have a pretty liberal definition of paradox in this case. I think the thing is, its not really a paradox because what happened always happened. That is, the actions in the future caused the actions in the past, they didn't negateor contradict them.

I only really thought that Reapers turned up for big changes to the timeline. Not a Timey-Wimey Ball -type, "same story, different details" type change that happened in Waters of Mars. They turned up when Pete survived in Father's Day because,... well, we kind of saw what would have became of him had he survived. After all, if they turned up at every little contradiction in the timeline, they would be following the Doctor around a lot. At least before (and I use the word "before" loosely) the Time War the Time Lords had enough power to keep it all in check. Maybe thats what he meant when he called himself the "Time Lord Victorious". It's all his responsibility now. Oh boy.

edited 19th Nov '09 12:48:28 PM by MarcRS

BobbyG vigilantly taxonomish from England Since: Jan, 2001
vigilantly taxonomish
#283: Nov 19th 2009 at 12:43:32 PM

Still confused, but OK.

But then, in "The Waters of Mars", the Doctor was taking a big risk. Changing the past like that, there was presumably a very strong possibility that the Reapers would show up.

Ninja'd, but the Doctor couldn't have known that, so I think my point stands.

edited 19th Nov '09 12:44:20 PM by BobbyG

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Micah from traveling the post-doc circuit Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#284: Nov 21st 2009 at 2:49:15 PM

He couldn't have known that, but given that he was making grand pronouncements like "We're fighting time itself, and I'm gonna win," I see no reason to believe he'd care. Insofar as he was thinking that far ahead at all, he probably figured he'd deal with them somehow when they showed up.

132 is the rudest number.
CyberKing Since: Nov, 2009
#285: Nov 22nd 2009 at 7:44:44 AM

I'm curious about whether this personality shift for the Tenth Doctor is going to make the eleventh kind of like the ninth.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from The Wiggle Room (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#286: Nov 22nd 2009 at 9:07:24 AM

Well 'the doctor' is getting old,he's only got 3 more regenerations left and then he will be on his 13th regeneration,and some fans speculate that the 13th regeneration will turn him into the valyard(an evil version of himself from the old series) so his personality is most definitely changing. His 9th incarnation was very dark and brooding,and after the events of the 'waters of Mars' it may push him futher into the Valeyard's persoanlity.

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
SomeSortOfTroper Since: Jan, 2001
#287: Nov 24th 2009 at 8:34:34 AM

Gosh, now my mind is all a flutter with whether I am ever going to see the 14th Doctor. Well, I'll only have to wait about..oh say, a decade?

We got to see a preview of the Christmas episode on Children In Need a few nights ago. He seemed much more chipper and apparently he'd gotten married... now we know why Queen Elizabeth was so angry at him...and why she might have to drop her usual nickname.

MarcRS from over there Since: Nov, 2009
#288: Nov 24th 2009 at 1:14:03 PM

Wait, Children in Need already happened? Damn.

wellinever Last woman standing from Australia Since: Jan, 2001
SilentHunter The Russophile from London, UK Since: Dec, 1969
The Russophile
#290: Nov 29th 2009 at 7:41:24 AM

We knew this a while back. We need an entry for Timothy Dalton.

Also, "The End of Time, Part Two", will air in the US on 2 January 2010, a day after its UK airing.

edited 3rd Dec '09 1:17:17 PM by Silent Hunter

SilentHunter The Russophile from London, UK Since: Dec, 1969
The Russophile
#291: Dec 4th 2009 at 9:51:08 AM

Canada will also get that episode on 2 January.

Michael So that's what this does Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
So that's what this does
#292: Dec 6th 2009 at 9:07:30 AM

Going back to the question of paradox and the reapers, it's pretty clear that the reapers are only one of a host of possible bad things that can happen in the event of a paradox, ranging from a big explosion and Laser-Guided Amnesia (Mawdryn Undead) to suicidal urges or time running backwards and I'm still of the opinion that the Daleks were messing about in time when the Bad Wolf thing first happenned and time conspired to send Billie Piper over to turn them into dust.

Jenny is definitely a wound in time but what will happen with her is as unpredictable as it is dangerous.

Oscredwin Cold. from The Frozen East Since: Jan, 2001
Cold.
#293: Dec 6th 2009 at 1:34:32 PM

I don't see Jenny as being a problem. Given the amount of times the Doctor's saved the earth after spending all this time here, stable time loops are almost mandatory.

Sex, Drugs, and Rationality
Michael So that's what this does Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
So that's what this does
#294: Dec 6th 2009 at 9:56:41 PM

Are you saying that the doctor isn't dangerous in spite of all those paradoxes he's been involved in?

I think he's pretty dangerous.

Oscredwin Cold. from The Frozen East Since: Jan, 2001
Cold.
#295: Dec 6th 2009 at 10:00:47 PM

"'Dangerous!' cried Gandalf. 'And so am I, very dangerous: more dangerous than anything you will ever meet, unless you are brought before the seat of the Dark Lord.'"

The Doctor is definitely dangerous. But that doesn't mean the time loops aren't stable.

Sex, Drugs, and Rationality
Ronnie Respect the Red Right Hand from Surrounded by Idiots Since: Jan, 2001
Respect the Red Right Hand
#297: Dec 7th 2009 at 7:49:34 AM

Yeah, the Doctor's headed the wrong way, but I still think he did the right thing, he just let a tad too much slip to Adelaide.

edited 7th Dec '09 7:49:53 AM by Ronnie

MarcRS from over there Since: Nov, 2009
#298: Dec 9th 2009 at 9:19:33 AM

Going back to the question of paradox and the reapers, it's pretty clear that the reapers are only one of a host of possible bad things that can happen in the event of a paradox, ranging from a big explosion and Laser Guided Amnesia (Mawdryn Undead) to suicidal urges or time running backwards and I'm still of the opinion that the Daleks were messing about in time when the Bad Wolf thing first happenned and time conspired to send Billie Piper over to turn them into dust.
I'm not sure what you mean by suicidal urges. Do you mean that Dalek in "Dalek" or something else? Other than that, I see what you mean there: there are a number of potential negative consequences, and the Ninth Doctor in Father's Day said that the Time Lords would have been able to take care of the timeline when they were alive. I think this was what I was trying to say before, but I think thats what he means when he calls himself Time Lord Victorious, he is going to take that responsibility now, in his own fashion. So yeah, he probably punched out all the reapers in an untelevised adventure.

Haven Planescape Hijack Since: Jan, 2001
Planescape Hijack
#299: Dec 9th 2009 at 9:59:58 AM

I think this was what I was trying to say before, but I think thats what he means when he calls himself Time Lord Victorious, he is going to take that responsibility now, in his own fashion.

This was my interpretation as well. And it's one of the reasons I hope the "Time Lord Victorious" thing sticks, it sounds like it'd be a really interesting direction to go in.

Productivity is for people without internet connections. -Count Dorku
Michael So that's what this does Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
So that's what this does
#300: Dec 10th 2009 at 11:18:08 AM

I'm not sure what you mean by suicidal urges. Do you mean that Dalek in "Dalek" or something else?

I'm referring to the Time Lord Victorious. Time was stronger than him and solved his paradox by inspiring one little suicide.

There have been a lot of paradoxes in the series, most of them have gone badly, only one has involved reapers and it's the one everyone remembers. Given the comments about time compensating for things in the likes of Turn Left it seems reasonable that they aren't the normal effects of time meddling.


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