TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The Order of the Stick

Go To

This is the thread for discussion of The Order of the Stick plot, characters, etc. We have a separate thread for discussing game rules and mechanics. Excessive rules discussions here may be thumped as off-topic.

OP edited to make this header - Fighteer

edited 18th Sep '17 1:08:08 PM by Fighteer

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#21276: Jul 11th 2013 at 3:17:28 PM

Clerics can obtain powers without following a deity? I thought that contradicted the whole point behind their magic.

Ryusui Since: Jan, 2001
#21277: Jul 11th 2013 at 4:14:38 PM

Am I the only one who remembers that the IFCC has a stake in the Linear Guild? Basically, they like those guys being around because they make such great pawns. I agree that Tarquin's probably not going to figure into the plot past this arc, one way or another, but I think Nale and Sabine are going to hang around until the climax, even if only through the IFCC's meddling.

Nohbody "In distress", my ass. from Somewhere in Dixie Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Mu
"In distress", my ass.
#21278: Jul 11th 2013 at 4:33:03 PM

In regards to Durkula, wouldn't his utility as a member, sans Malack, be somewhat limited at best outside of night-time action? Durkula knows of the spell to keep vamps from bursting into flames in sunlight, but he doesn't know the spell itself. Should Malack be taken out of the picture (by whatever method suits the plot) without passing on that tidbit, Durk's daytime activity will be rather limited if he can't figure out the spell on his own.

edited 11th Jul '13 4:33:49 PM by Nohbody

All your safe space are belong to Trump
Crinias from The Bleak Academy Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Mu
#21279: Jul 11th 2013 at 4:37:03 PM

@Kostya: It's a bit difficult to wrap your head around it at first, but after that it becomes a trivial issue:

Belief is power. Gods are creatures of belief, they require it exist and to power them. A god without followers will wither away and 'die' in the Astral Plane from neglect. It's happened before.

This is essential to know. As for how exactly it works... Gods may have thousands or maybe millions of followers. All these followers grant power to the gods through their prayers, and they use this immense power to do their stuff. They grant some of their power to their clerics, who act as their emissaries.

(In canon D&D the gods act directly many times, but in a regular game involving a god in such a way is a bad idea, because it raises too many questions: if it's an antagonist to be faced directly, it'll likely wipe the party unless it's an Epic game, and even then maybe not. If a friendly one, why can't he solve the conflict directly?)

Bottom line is, just believing with all your heart in an ideal, or a god or an entity indistinguishable from such is enough to grant you divine spells. Instead of a god granting them to you, I guess a powerful entity like a Demon Prince or one of the very planes of existence would do.

MusikMaestro from Ireland Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Heisenberg unreliable
#21280: Jul 11th 2013 at 4:42:17 PM

[up]

tl;dr version.

Worshipping a god gives them and you strength, as seen when Elan gets Banjo to smite Roy.

TotemicHero No longer a forum herald from the next level Since: Dec, 2009
No longer a forum herald
#21281: Jul 11th 2013 at 4:47:59 PM

[up][up] That's the Forgotten Realms version. We ain't running around Faerun with Bruenor Battlehammer, so the same rules don't apply. (Specifically, OOTS gods gain power with prayer, but don't seem to lose it when it's withdrawn.)

edited 11th Jul '13 4:50:47 PM by TotemicHero

Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)
Crinias from The Bleak Academy Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Mu
#21282: Jul 11th 2013 at 4:54:48 PM

No, I'm pretty sure belief in general D&D grants power. In Eberron, for instance, it's not entirely certain whether gods exist, but clerics who do still gain spells and there's less stigma against clerics that do not worship gods.

It's definitely a thing in other settings as well.

Edit: Also, I think the general idea of gods losing a bit of power when they grant spells to clerics is negligible due to the great amount of worshipers they have. It could be like taking a few glasses of water from a huge water tank which gets replenished by many individual drops every day.

edited 11th Jul '13 5:01:03 PM by Crinias

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#21283: Jul 11th 2013 at 5:05:35 PM

So who believed in the gods before they created the world? I don't think it was the Snarl. Concepts like "belief" seem a bit too sophisticated for an incarnation of pure chaos.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#21284: Jul 11th 2013 at 7:22:31 PM

In OOTS-verse, the gods definitely desire prayer. Whether it grants them actual power on some kind of cosmic scale or merely lets them lord it over each other for bragging rights, they do seek it out.

Sufficient devotion can also raise mortals to divinity, which is how the elven gods and the Dark One came into being.

There is no evidence that lack of worshipers will cause a god to "die", however.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Counterclock Since: Feb, 2013
#21285: Jul 11th 2013 at 8:44:16 PM

"merely lets them lord it over each other for bragging rights"

Given how the formation of the universe played out in Oot S and how the gods have generally been depicted, I'd honestly put this as the most likeliest reason they want prayers.

Ryusui Since: Jan, 2001
#21286: Jul 11th 2013 at 9:29:11 PM

As an aside, I was flipping back through some of the previous strips, and...

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0882.html

...we still don't know what Tarquin did before he left the city. o_o;

Saya1 Werefox from Multiverse Since: Oct, 2011
Werefox
#21287: Jul 11th 2013 at 10:26:32 PM

In a offical D&D 3.5 story path a Demon named Sertrous was warred with the Gods worshipers so the Gods sent a Solar to kill him. The Solar succeeded and right before he landed the finishing blow Sertrous said this to him “Why serve your lord when his playthings can gain the same strength of power through their own will?” The Solar then went back to the Preists who asked for his help and with the Demons head and mentioned his last words.

Scholars and priests puzzled over Sertrous’s dying words and made an incredible discovery: One need not worship a god to gain the power of divine magic. Rather than worship a god, a cleric could worship an ideal and gain the same reward. He could worship the mountains, or the sky, or the act of war, or himself.

Because of this and it spreading once it was more widely known the Solar was demoted and humiliated and so he stole the Demons head and started a cult to him in order to resurrect him. In the in game rules if you worship Sertrous you get all domain`s as a choice and free bonus feats.

This story is said to be usable in all settings involving gods.

edited 11th Jul '13 10:28:22 PM by Saya1

You look happy, I can change that if you want.
ashnazg Since: Dec, 2009
#21288: Jul 12th 2013 at 3:13:38 AM

[up][up]Yeah, it's been discussed a little. As most people said, it's unlikely Tarquin will drop out before this plot point is resolved.

And my first thought on seeing the strip title was Belkar's prophecy, too. Can't believe I completely forgot about the one for Xykon and the gate.

wild mass guessThe strip title actually refers to both the prophecies being fulfilled, and Belkar died in the explosion.

johnnye Since: Jan, 2001
#21289: Jul 12th 2013 at 12:36:42 PM

[up][up][up]Part of the same Unspoken Plan he went off to tinker with before Malack and Nale re-entered the pyramid, I'm guessing.

wild mass guessDangerously Genre-Savvy Tarquin doesn't actually have a secret plan, he just knows that as long as he acts like he does, he can't die.wild mass guess

edited 12th Jul '13 12:37:01 PM by johnnye

hcobb Since: Jan, 2001
#21290: Jul 12th 2013 at 3:14:10 PM

[up]And that's his secret plan for staying alive.

johnnye Since: Jan, 2001
#21291: Jul 12th 2013 at 4:05:06 PM

[up]Whooooa.

I see him revealing this to Elan once he's finally got himself in a position to die a heroic death. He wasn't plotting anything; he was just stalling for time.

tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#21292: Jul 12th 2013 at 4:29:29 PM

Rewrote post: wild mass guess

  • Tarquin will make a Heroic Sacrifice both selfishly (in order to get into the history books) and selflessly (to help Elan) when they inevitably get into a fight with Xykon, by somehow making a weakness.

  • Elan makes sure his father's Heroic deed is made into one big story, but never mentions any of his father's evil deeds so his father's plans of getting into the books as a great villain fails and Tarquin's adventuring buddies can try to bring out his evil deeds out into the open cause noone would believe them.

edited 12th Jul '13 5:45:10 PM by tclittle

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
Wryte Since: Jul, 2010
#21293: Jul 12th 2013 at 5:30:07 PM

^ That... makes absolutely no sense.

tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#21294: Jul 12th 2013 at 5:40:37 PM

[up] It all sounded good in my head when I posted it. I tend to be bad at articulating my thoughts, especially when I hurry.

Will rewrite the post here in a sec.

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
Wryte Since: Jul, 2010
#21295: Jul 12th 2013 at 6:09:17 PM

I understood what you meant, but it still doesn't make sense.

Tarquin's goal isn't to be remembered, it's to rule the continent, which he has already succeeded at for a very long time. Going down in history as a legend is just icing on the cake. The bottom line is that Tarquin has already won at his primary goal, and nothing anyone can do short of time travel can take that away from him. All Tarquin has to do to get in the history books is have a bunch of history books with him in them printed.

On top of that, it's not "being remembered" that he cares about, it's telling an awesome story, and he knows that the time isn't right for that story to be told. Elan is too early in his career; whatever happens between him and Tarquin now won't go down as a legend, because Elan won't have done anything to earn the story's resolution. If Tarquin sacrifices himself for Elan now, it'll be purely because he cares more about Elan than himself, which honestly, could go either way as I see it.

Besides, Elan still has his own secret plan for dealing with his father that he has yet to enact, so Tarquin can't die until that comes to pass. :P

Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#21296: Jul 12th 2013 at 6:13:06 PM

I thought his secret plan for dealing with his father was still at the "don't have a climactic duel on the roof of the palace" stage.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#21297: Jul 12th 2013 at 6:18:17 PM

Panels 7 - 9.

Although, it does seem like he needs Durkon. Hopefully, he only needed Durkon's advice and not his help.

edited 12th Jul '13 6:18:42 PM by tclittle

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#21298: Jul 12th 2013 at 6:44:38 PM

[up]

Surprise Burn!!!evil grin

Here's hoping he asked Durkon before they left.

One Strip! One Strip!
hcobb Since: Jan, 2001
#21299: Jul 12th 2013 at 7:10:11 PM

Has V ever used a dagger or any other hand held weapon?

Matues Since: Sep, 2011
#21300: Jul 12th 2013 at 7:27:16 PM

V would probably consider that beneath a wizard's dignity.


Total posts: 64,800
Top