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This is the thread for discussion of The Order of the Stick plot, characters, etc. We have a separate thread for discussing game rules and mechanics. Excessive rules discussions here may be thumped as off-topic.

OP edited to make this header - Fighteer

edited 18th Sep '17 1:08:08 PM by Fighteer

Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#20626: Jun 21st 2013 at 6:27:15 AM

Hmmm... with his current constitution, Belkar would have trouble nicking off with a piece to replace Old Faithful. wink

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#20627: Jun 21st 2013 at 6:39:14 AM

I thought they'd take longer to puzzle it out. Oh well, at least now important stuff can happen rather than wasting time on another dungeon.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#20628: Jun 21st 2013 at 6:48:11 AM

The double bluff was so obvious as to be almost anti-climactic once revealed. What I find more interesting, however, is Roy's planned solution to the problem. It strikes me as somewhat Pyrrhic, in that while not destroying the gates lets Xykon and Redcloak use them for their plan, destroying them destabilizes the Snarl's prison and potentially leads to the world's destruction. If the Order isn't strong enough to try to defeat Xykon here, what hope do they have of fighting him at the last Gate?

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
petersohn from Earth, Solar System (Long Runner) Relationship Status: Hiding
Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#20630: Jun 21st 2013 at 6:56:34 AM

^^ Well, a couple things.

  1. They may have more force at their disposal for the last gate. Let's consider Durkon and Belkar lost assets since Roy does. He won't have them during the hypothetical current battle (for long) anyway, but in the future he might have the paladins to back him up and possibly a replacement divine caster.
  2. Securing the gate will probably draw attention to them. Also, Tarquin, upon hearing of the giant stone, would probably realize the double bluff and send everyone back. Malack isn't particularly intelligent but even he might double back to see what the Order is doing in their absence. That's two groups stronger than the Order that Roy would have to fight off.
  3. They have no access to the supplies necessary to defend the gate, do they? I know it's a D&D campaign but surely they still have to eat sometimes?

This is a strategically impossible situation. That hasn't changed from when Roy gave up before, but now he's dealing with it in a way that means he's still trying.

edited 21st Jun '13 6:58:03 AM by Arha

Maridee from surfside Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: Dating Catwoman
#20631: Jun 21st 2013 at 6:58:52 AM

also consider that Tarquin probably knew that in telling Nale to follow the good guys, he'd do the exact opposite. and that's probably why he stayed behind. And he's probably going to make his own deal with the Order/figure out what the hell is going on.

destruction of the universe doesn't benefit him.

ophelia, you're breaking my heart
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#20632: Jun 21st 2013 at 7:01:48 AM

I'm still hoping for a Xykon-Linear Guild confrontation that decisively finishes off one or more antagonists, but we shall see. It'd be terribly anticlimactic for this chapter to conclude with all sides simply giving up and haring off for the last gate.

edited 21st Jun '13 7:02:20 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Hodor Cleric of Banjo from Westeros Since: Dec, 1969
Cleric of Banjo
#20633: Jun 21st 2013 at 7:53:02 AM

I know it is a pun on that "stop oppressing my culture" line used with lead sheets in the past, but could someone explain what Belkar's line means?

Edit, edit, edit, edit the wiki
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#20634: Jun 21st 2013 at 8:26:14 AM

[up]He's telling the lead sheet to stop blocking(suppressing) the ability to view the gate(our rupture) from the view of magic.

edit: You know on further inspection Girard seems to be incredibly stupid. I at least expected the block to be solid with maybe a lead lining underneath it that blocked a trapdoor leading to the chamber. He just put a giant lead block with a thin layer of stone around the gate. Someone could get mad and attack the block, thus exposing the gate even if they would have left after that.

@destroying it: Isn't the last gate in Dwarven lands? Roy probably expects to have the support of them and the Azurites with the defense of the last one. I think it's smarter to cut their losses and run rather than risk all their lives trying to defend this gate.

edited 21st Jun '13 8:29:05 AM by Kostya

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#20635: Jun 21st 2013 at 8:47:48 AM

On the green circle: it is probably just a damaging trap. It DID serve a narrative purpose: it prevented the Order from entering the room with the stone, allowing Nale and Malack to find it first, while providing a small gag in the form of Nale getting zapped by it. Its role in the story is now complete.

With regards to the Gate, Roy is right. This situation is unwinnable at this point, especially with Xykon on his way. V is still missing, Durkon's a vampire, Belkar is CON-drained to hell, and Elan is Elan, so if Xykon exploded through the wall right now, Roy and Haley would have to defeat him by themselves. Ditto for Tarquin and Malack.

Destroying the Gate is a bid for time. Time to regroup, maybe get some reinforcements, and make a new plan for defending the final Gate. And I fully expect Haley to argue about it with Roy and for Xykon to arrive right as Roy convinces Haley that it's a good idea, ruining the plan.

edited 21st Jun '13 8:48:33 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Thnikkafan ? from Faroe Islands (not really) Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
?
#20636: Jun 21st 2013 at 8:50:06 AM

But wouldn't destroying the gate cause a big explosion?

Or was that just an Azure City-only thing?

Anyone who assigns themselves loads of character tropes is someone to be worried about.
TheWanderer Student of Story from Somewhere in New England (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Student of Story
#20637: Jun 21st 2013 at 8:50:23 AM

If the Order isn't strong enough to try to defeat Xykon here, what hope do they have of fighting him at the last Gate?

Last gate is in the dwarven lands, so they might have support from the dwarves. Last gate has its defenses intact, so they could make use of that. Going to the last gate gives them a chance to possibly restore Belkar and reunite with V on their way out.

It's a more tenable situation than trying to fight off Tarquin and co. and Xykon and Redcloak here, where the party is separated, depleted, and without backup/support.

| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |
Elfive (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#20638: Jun 21st 2013 at 8:58:00 AM

Here's hoping there were no dwarves with black dragon blood.

Kayeka (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#20639: Jun 21st 2013 at 8:59:26 AM

[up][up][up]It also happened to Durokan's Gate, so yeah, it's probably going kaboom.

edited 21st Jun '13 8:59:36 AM by Kayeka

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#20640: Jun 21st 2013 at 9:02:19 AM

How do they intend to blow it up without killing themselves? There's a giant maze and a trap filled corridor so whatever timer they use for the explosive would have to have an hour long countdown which gives Xykon time to find it and disarm it. This would be easier if V could cast teleport.

edited 21st Jun '13 9:02:52 AM by Kostya

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#20641: Jun 21st 2013 at 9:18:26 AM

We don't know that the Gate has a self-destruct mechanism. So far, of the three known to have been destroyed, two were trapped in this manner and one (Lirian's) was not.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#20642: Jun 21st 2013 at 9:31:06 AM

I seem to recall Lirian's gate did explode during the blazing inferno. Dorukan's had an actual self-destruct rune, but Soon's exploded from being fractured. The Gate exploding seems to be an effect of its destruction.

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TotemicHero No longer a forum herald from the next level Since: Dec, 2009
No longer a forum herald
#20643: Jun 21st 2013 at 9:34:49 AM

Edit: Nevermind.

edited 21st Jun '13 9:35:11 AM by TotemicHero

Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)
God_of_Awesome Since: Jan, 2001
#20644: Jun 21st 2013 at 9:42:42 AM

Was I the only one who called lead shielding?

Hodor Cleric of Banjo from Westeros Since: Dec, 1969
Cleric of Banjo
#20645: Jun 21st 2013 at 9:51:08 AM

So, since the Gate actually was where people had thought it was, what do you think the chances are that Giard actually planned for the possibility of it being discovered by the "right people" (and the traps were a Secret Test of Character)?

At the very least, I have a bit more respect for Girard in that if he really wanted to be dickish, he would have actually placed the Gate somewhere else, at an (unguarded) location. He was a very spiteful guy, but at least he wasn't so spiteful to be (that) stupid.

edited 21st Jun '13 9:53:26 AM by Hodor

Edit, edit, edit, edit the wiki
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#20646: Jun 21st 2013 at 9:52:44 AM

Girard was a paranoid bastard. The only "right people" as far as he was concerned were already guarding it and, as such, did not require any Secret Test of Character.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Nohbody "In distress", my ass. from Somewhere in Dixie Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Mu
"In distress", my ass.
#20647: Jun 21st 2013 at 10:01:34 AM

^ Also, I think [up][up] is more than a bit of a stretch of reason that puts too much faith in Girard's ability to predict the future, even ignoring the paranoia.

—-

On another note, while I think it's most likely that Malack did see the Order, what if he was just noticing the oddly shaped wall, given that the rest of the room was squared off at the corners? Related: how long does True Seeing (cast to scan the trick block) last, anyway?

All your safe space are belong to Trump
Kayeka (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#20648: Jun 21st 2013 at 10:04:38 AM

[up]True Seeing last minutes. Unless they've been arguing for far longer than has been shown, Malack must have seen the Order, but choose not to mention it. Probably because it was Durkon's last wish.

Mukora Uniocular from a place Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Uniocular
#20649: Jun 21st 2013 at 10:04:45 AM

If Malack did just see the wall, I would think that the panel itself would just show the wall, and not the Order behind the wall.

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."
Hodor Cleric of Banjo from Westeros Since: Dec, 1969
Cleric of Banjo
#20650: Jun 21st 2013 at 10:12:06 AM

Malack definitely saw them. I think him calling Durkon "brother" was indicating how he was honoring Durkon's last request.

Yeah, I was probably giving Girard too much credit (I do give him some credit though for not being stupid enough to actually put the Gate at an unguarded location purely out of spite).

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