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This is the thread for discussion of The Order of the Stick plot, characters, etc. We have a separate thread for discussing game rules and mechanics. Excessive rules discussions here may be thumped as off-topic.

OP edited to make this header - Fighteer

edited 18th Sep '17 1:08:08 PM by Fighteer

Florien The They who said it from statistically, slightly right behind you. Since: Aug, 2019
The They who said it
#60801: Feb 24th 2023 at 5:03:21 PM

Quintons cast pretty much all of their things at will as far as I remember. They can't run out of spells.

fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#60802: Feb 24th 2023 at 5:24:34 PM

Can he properly die to provide exp or is he just “desummoned”?

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#60803: Feb 24th 2023 at 5:36:57 PM

Doesn't matter. At CR 14, he can't provide XP to Xykon no matter what.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
HeraldAlberich from Ohio (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Gonna take a lot to drag me away from you
#60804: Feb 24th 2023 at 7:22:17 PM

Having arrived via gate, the quinton is actually here and can be killed.

But even if they were strong enough to challenge Xykon, that wouldn’t matter either. De-summoning a monster through violence gives just as much XP as killing it—or indeed as much as talking your way out of danger, not that Xykon would ever choose that route. What matters is winning the encounter, overcoming the challenge.

(I imagine the Order would feel quite robbed if they didn’t get any XP off of Redcloak’s silicon elemental.)

Anyway, though, if what Xykon cares about is revenge, he can kill the modron. But he’ll have to be quick about it, because the quinton is free to return to Mechanus as soon as their contracted job is done.

Edited by HeraldAlberich on Feb 24th 2023 at 10:39:24 AM

johnnye Since: Jan, 2001
#60805: Feb 26th 2023 at 5:10:37 PM

[up]Well the dramatic time to do it would be before the job is done. No-one cares if he does it afterwards, least of all the readers.

ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#60806: Mar 3rd 2023 at 5:07:11 AM

New strip: A Bit Too Revealing

And yep, here's what we all expected by now.

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AegisP Kindhearted SSSSSNAKE Man Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Kindhearted SSSSSNAKE Man
#60807: Mar 3rd 2023 at 5:09:52 AM

OMG I love it when people predict plot twists but the writing is so good that it feels rewarding when people do it and not hacky and predictable.

As long as this flower is in my heart. My Strength will flow without end.
fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#60808: Mar 3rd 2023 at 5:12:50 AM

"I can't leave it up to you when it's my future on the line."

Screw you too, Eugene.

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
petersohn from Earth, Solar System (Long Runner) Relationship Status: Hiding
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#60810: Mar 3rd 2023 at 5:42:24 AM

I think that covers post-mordem character development, too.

Edited by sgamer82 on Mar 3rd 2023 at 5:42:34 AM

Resileafs I actually wanted to be Resileaf Since: Jan, 2019
I actually wanted to be Resileaf
#60811: Mar 3rd 2023 at 7:03:16 AM

Too bad about my Qarr theory, but Eugene was definitely the most likely culprit after a few strips ago. No bragging rights for me, but I'll take the unwarranted sense of smug satisfaction anyway.

petersohn from Earth, Solar System (Long Runner) Relationship Status: Hiding
#60812: Mar 3rd 2023 at 7:21:49 AM

Cue Belkar saying: "No idea what it means, but Bloodfeast told me to tell you that Julia is your father."

Fjón þvæ ég af mér fjanda minna rán og reiði ríkra manna.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#60813: Mar 3rd 2023 at 7:22:01 AM

OMG I love it when people predict plot twists but the writing is so good that it feels rewarding when people do it and not hacky and predictable.

Execution over concept. Doesn't matter if people predicted the twist. What matters is if the reveal lands.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
RhymeBeat True colors from Eastern Standard Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
True colors
#60814: Mar 3rd 2023 at 8:00:57 AM

... I'm disappointed that it means that Julia hasn't actually seen Roy since Cliffport. The sending spell explanation was entirely fake.

The Crystal Caverns A bird's gotta sing.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#60815: Mar 3rd 2023 at 8:22:06 AM

Alright. Now back to the rest of the plot.

One Strip! One Strip!
AegisP Kindhearted SSSSSNAKE Man Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Kindhearted SSSSSNAKE Man
#60816: Mar 3rd 2023 at 8:44:48 AM

[up][up] How long has it been since that?

As long as this flower is in my heart. My Strength will flow without end.
jjjj2 from Arrakis Since: Jul, 2015
#60817: Mar 3rd 2023 at 9:12:47 AM

In https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1193.html "Julia" says "I can't exactly leave it all up to you when it's my future on the line" I was wondering if she had been talking to him the last time, but it seems she's completely out of the loop.

You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
FawfulCrump Since: Dec, 2010
#60818: Mar 3rd 2023 at 9:46:46 AM

I came in here to say that this new reveal puts this conversation in an interesting light, but since people here apparently predicted this, I feel like maybe that's already been a topic in this thread lol.

RaichuKFM Nine thousand nine hundred eighty-two reasons. from Where she's at Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Wishing you were here
Nine thousand nine hundred eighty-two reasons.
#60819: Mar 3rd 2023 at 9:59:05 AM

Honestly, people calling this out ahead of time is the only reason I'm not scratching my head. It's a weird thing that I'm not sure what point it will serve that couldn't have been served otherwise, and involves a character I like being sidelined instead of sidelined-but-here-a-bit. It feels... a waste, for it to be Eugene, even though that's what made the most sense and thus what I expected. I don't know how exactly to put the way it seems pointless; which normally isn't something I feel with character or narrative arcs disconnected from the main plot, that's not what this is.

Genuinely glad this worked well for other people, because it's fallen totally flat for me.

Then again this is the second webcomic update I read today involving it being made clear a character hadn't had any contact with his younger sister in a while.

Edited by RaichuKFM on Mar 3rd 2023 at 1:03:22 PM

Mostly does better things now. Key word mostly. Writes things, but you'll never find them. Or you can ask.
ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#60820: Mar 3rd 2023 at 11:31:30 AM

it seems pointless

I'm used enough to the style of writing to know that if something seems pointless in it now, there's a real payoff planned.

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FawfulCrump Since: Dec, 2010
#60821: Mar 3rd 2023 at 11:37:19 AM

Oh, also the bit about "dumping the Blood Oath on us". Guess Eugene has a least a little self-awareness about being a shitty dad.

Edited by FawfulCrump on Mar 3rd 2023 at 1:42:58 PM

Noaqiyeum we must dissent (it/they) from across the gulf of space (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
we must dissent (it/they)
#60822: Mar 3rd 2023 at 11:39:45 AM

I came in here to say that this new reveal puts this conversation in an interesting light, but since people here apparently predicted this, I feel like maybe that's already been a topic in this thread lol.

I don't think it had, because up until the reveal it wasn't clear if it had always been Eugene or just the most recent conversation. (Which I do feel a little disappointed by.)

There is quite a lot of foreshadowing and interesting characterisation on that page, in hindsight.

ERROR: The current state of the world is unacceptable. Save anyway? YES/NO
RaichuKFM Nine thousand nine hundred eighty-two reasons. from Where she's at Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Wishing you were here
Nine thousand nine hundred eighty-two reasons.
#60823: Mar 3rd 2023 at 1:06:48 PM

I'm used enough to the style of writing to know that if something seems pointless in it now, there's a real payoff planned.

I guess that's the thing, because I don't feel like it's irrelevant. I don't think it will be worthless. I expect it will have some payoff, it will matter, probably to the overall plot and to the dynamic between Roy and Eugene.

I feel like it's "pointless" in that the reveal has negative utility? I think the story with this twist is just... worse, than it would have been had this not been a twist and just what it originally seemed to be. Of course, part of this is because a thing I liked and thought happened has in fact not happened. But part of this is because I'm skeptical whatever payoff we'll actually get would have been impossible to get through some other means? There was already plenty of tension between Eugene and Roy, and other ways he could have been deceptive or manipulative if that driving further falling out is part of the payoff. It wasn't necessary in that most of that payoff could have been reached through means not involving this subversion of expectation for the worse. It gives a glimpse into Eugene's character, but again, I'm not sure that was the only way to do it. I don't think this juice was worth the squeeze, especially because I feel like even a conservative guess is that we could have had 2/3 of that juice as well as the Julia-is-relevant cake. (Though that's not quite a cake, really. Cookies? Crackers, at least.)

I wouldn't mind this nearly as much if it wasn't a twist. Like, Eugene impersonating Julia just seems odd and uninteresting to me. It's whatever. It's just, the development is undercut by the way it dangles a different, better development in front of my face for a bit before taking it away. But it's not even a huge swerve that leans into that disappointment, like it probably would have been were the IFCC involved; it's not giving something nice to snatch it away and cackle evilly because actually this was something sinister and terrible all along and thus the suspense. It's just kind of Eugene being a manipulative lying dumbass to talk to Roy, who was very clearly willing to talk to him in the first place on that airship. And that's in-character and all, but it's also... lame?

(Obviously, this is all my opinion. I'm not meaning to state the story is Objectively Worse for it or anything, just putting my thoughts into words. Again, I'm happy people enjoy it, because it's better than it just be so lame for everybody; better that it's just not my thing.)

[up]There was some slight debate about whether it was the one or the other, and that page and its possible reinterpretation did come up. But yeah, it's certainly not a dry well of discussion.

(Edit: Whoops, had to finish some orphaned sentences. Nasty habit of jumping around in writing a post, forgot to double-check.)

Edited by RaichuKFM on Mar 3rd 2023 at 4:10:20 AM

Mostly does better things now. Key word mostly. Writes things, but you'll never find them. Or you can ask.
petersohn from Earth, Solar System (Long Runner) Relationship Status: Hiding
#60824: Mar 3rd 2023 at 1:19:29 PM

[up]I think I get your point. The story is setting up a confrontation between the heroes and the main villains. Would "Julia" be the IFCC's doing, it would have added to the tension that's strongly connected to the main plot, which is the IFCC trying to sabotage the Order's plan to prevent the world getting destroyed. Instead, we got some characterization, which, while neat, is much more disconnected from the immediate plot happening, and is not even connected to any of the side-plots (which are mostly closed to begin with exactly because the story is preparing for the final confrontation). At this point, such sidetracks feel a bit frustrating.

I'm not saying it's an entirely bad outcome, but I do have the same feeling of it being an underwhelming development.

Fjón þvæ ég af mér fjanda minna rán og reiði ríkra manna.
RaichuKFM Nine thousand nine hundred eighty-two reasons. from Where she's at Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Wishing you were here
Nine thousand nine hundred eighty-two reasons.
#60825: Mar 3rd 2023 at 2:06:46 PM

I'm apparently making my point quite poorly because it's not that it's a sidetrack, or anything like that. (I honestly cannot remember the last time I got bothered by an actual sidetracking in fiction I like.)

It's just that it's swapping out a cool thing for a worse thing; and presumably doing that as means to get us some third thing later on, that as far as I can guess will be something we could have got anyways; and thus the disappointment of the swap is basically pointless. It's paying a price for a reward I'm not led to believe needed bought that way, and so there presumably being something at the end doesn't make the development not just kinda suck.

I only brought up the IFCC because that would be a twist where the state of affairs actually being another, worse one would be intentional, rather than just... incidental. Or maybe this is meant to be that too, and it's just not landing right for me?

Oh well, I won't belabor the point just because I can't seem to make it.

Mostly does better things now. Key word mostly. Writes things, but you'll never find them. Or you can ask.

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