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This is the thread for discussion of The Order of the Stick plot, characters, etc. We have a separate thread for discussing game rules and mechanics. Excessive rules discussions here may be thumped as off-topic.

OP edited to make this header - Fighteer

edited 18th Sep '17 1:08:08 PM by Fighteer

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#59801: Jul 8th 2022 at 12:00:04 PM

Phrasing, I think, would be really helpful when dealing with Redcloak. For someone as devoted to Sunk Cost Fallacy as he is, anything that makes it sound like his sacrifices were for nothing is going to make him disappear behind a defensive wall of Fuck You.

They need to find a way to broach the topic of Thor's plan in a way that sounds, to Redcloak, like cashing out. To suggest that his sacrifices weren't for nothing; They were for this, right here! His jackpot has arrived, and all he needs to do is reach out and take it!

Maybe Haley should try negotiating next time.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Eagal Since: Apr, 2012
#59802: Jul 8th 2022 at 12:10:55 PM

Make sure to pick up another Potion of Glibness first. Solve the problem in 10 seconds flat. tongue

Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#59803: Jul 8th 2022 at 12:30:54 PM

I think Redcloak is probably at least aware that holding the phylactery is, by itself, not that helpful. It does give him the chance to take advantage of certain potential opportunities, though, and it doesn't hurt to just have it with him so long as Xykon doesn't figure out the trick.

Mega_zxa Since: Mar, 2015
#59804: Jul 8th 2022 at 12:59:56 PM

One thing I think that makes Xykon so dangerous and has me curious about what he knows is that while he may not be as intelligent as the people he is up against he comes across as "smarter" then them. They may have greater brain power but Xykon is better at actually using it.

HeraldAlberich from Ohio (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Gonna take a lot to drag me away from you
#59805: Jul 8th 2022 at 1:13:23 PM

[up][up][up][up] I went back and read Durkon’s attempt at negotiation, and it sounds like Redcloak’s win condition is an iron-clad guarantee that the other gods will allow the Dark One to change the goblinoids’ fates and conditions. And Thor already shot that down.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#59806: Jul 8th 2022 at 1:19:03 PM

Well, mostly because they can't change anything once they finalize the world (and they'd probably need Fenrir to make things better anyway).

I actually do wonder if Thor would do something about that if he could, since it seems like he specifically won't and more that he just can't since he's not the god of Goblinoids.

One Strip! One Strip!
DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#59807: Jul 8th 2022 at 4:57:58 PM

[up][up][up]

Having the greater brain isn't that useful when Xykon's just smearing it all over the floor after all. tongue

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#59808: Jul 8th 2022 at 10:22:59 PM

What Xykon has isn't so much intelligence as it is a willingness to do whatever it takes to win. As he said in his breaking speech to Redcloak in SOD, power isn't the only thing that matters. What also counts is how much one is willing to debase themselves.

Disgusted, but not surprised
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#59809: Jul 9th 2022 at 6:26:09 AM

Or, as he said to Vaarsuvius, "anything to avoid the big fire down below."

GAP Formerly G.G. from Who Knows? Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: In love with love
Formerly G.G.
#59810: Jul 9th 2022 at 8:12:27 AM

What does Thor think will happen to Redcloak if he actually does do a Heel Face Turn?

"Fan, a Mega Man character."
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#59811: Jul 9th 2022 at 8:15:21 AM

I don't think Thor's thought it through very much. He seems to expect Durkon to be able to persuade Redcloak without having the power to actually offer him anything concrete.

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#59812: Jul 9th 2022 at 9:33:27 AM

In truth they just need Redcloak to cast a 9th level spell. Why he does it isn't actually that relevant. Persuading him to do so willingly would be the best solution, but there's no reason he can't be forced to as part of a fight.

Edited by sgamer82 on Jul 9th 2022 at 9:33:46 AM

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#59813: Jul 9th 2022 at 9:38:12 AM

It does have to be willingly. The Giant has specified that. You can't force or trick him to do it, Redcloak has to use a 9th level spell with the knowledge that he is participating in a specific ritual.

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#59814: Jul 9th 2022 at 9:45:08 AM

Ah, that I did not know. The comic said they needed the spell cast, but wasn't more specific (which is probably why Giant had to step in)

RaichuKFM Nine thousand nine hundred eighty-two reasons. from Where she's at Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Wishing you were here
Nine thousand nine hundred eighty-two reasons.
#59815: Jul 9th 2022 at 9:54:55 AM

My understanding was that it's not casting a ninth level spell per se, it's providing magical power to the ritual in a way which costs a ninth-level spell slot, but doesn't cast the spell that was previously prepared in that slot. Haven't seen the Word of God though.

Mostly does better things now. Key word mostly. Writes things, but you'll never find them. Or you can ask.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#59816: Jul 9th 2022 at 10:06:32 AM

I'll try finding it.

Edit: Found it. Though it's part of a larger post; the relevant part is at the very end. Though the rest of the post does provide important insights into other things.

Edited by LSBK on Jul 9th 2022 at 12:19:55 PM

Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#59817: Jul 9th 2022 at 11:47:22 AM

Whether that saves Redcloak from damnation is really down to how the Dark One feels about his solution, does it not? If the Dark One can accept Gobbotopia and whatever concessions are thrown his way, Redcloak will probably be fine. If not, he better convert fast if he doesn't want to have a shit afterlife.

DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#59818: Jul 9th 2022 at 4:10:03 PM

[up]

Do we even know what goblinoid afterlife is like?

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#59819: Jul 9th 2022 at 4:13:36 PM

Yes, the Dark One puts you in his army. Assuming you're a follower of his. And, going by the general precedent, non follower goblins of the Dark One would just be sorted normally. So if you're a follower of the Dark One and you piss him off, your afterlife is not going to be pleasant.

Edited by Arha on Jul 9th 2022 at 6:13:52 AM

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#59820: Jul 9th 2022 at 4:14:22 PM

Going off Jirax, they join the Dark One's army on his home plane to fight in a perpetual war.

Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#59821: Jul 9th 2022 at 4:26:25 PM

Nitpick, it sounds like they're preparing for war rather than already engaged in one.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#59822: Jul 9th 2022 at 5:45:38 PM

It's basically Goblin Valhalla. Remember that Valhalla isn't just a big feast in a meadhall. The other part is constant fighting against the other dead warriors to prepare for Ragnarok.

Disgusted, but not surprised
RaichuKFM Nine thousand nine hundred eighty-two reasons. from Where she's at Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Wishing you were here
Nine thousand nine hundred eighty-two reasons.
#59823: Jul 9th 2022 at 5:50:09 PM

I don't think there's any indication that there's much goblin-on-goblin battle up there. (Down there?) Sparring-as-training would certainly fit, but it at least isn't considered a major enough fixture to mention by the believers we hear talking about it.

Edited by RaichuKFM on Jul 9th 2022 at 8:50:31 AM

Mostly does better things now. Key word mostly. Writes things, but you'll never find them. Or you can ask.
ChloeJessica Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: Awaiting my mail-order bride
#59824: Jul 9th 2022 at 5:53:13 PM

can you level up when you're dead? that constant training seems kind of useless if you can't, since everyone would be stuck where they were when they died.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#59825: Jul 9th 2022 at 5:54:29 PM

Nope, once you die you can't change or grow at all. You're stuck.


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