This is the thread for discussion of The Order of the Stick plot, characters, etc. We have a separate thread
for discussing game rules and mechanics. Excessive rules discussions here may be thumped as off-topic.
OP edited to make this header - Fighteer
edited 18th Sep '17 1:08:08 PM by Fighteer
That's what I said. If you want to calculate a character's beauty from charisma you have to "deduct" their social skills from the sum, which is why there is a good argument for Miko being basically perfect in terms of appearance.
I heard of a neat Watsonian way to put in this thread for Miko: "I think she just didn't put any points in Charisma-based skills. Even if she had an 18 Charisma, which grants a +4 bonus to Diplomacy, that's just not a meaningful bonus to a level 15 or so character. Elan, for example, would probably have at least a +10, not even counting his ability bonus. Or to say it in non-rules terms: Miko has a great talent for persuasion, due to being beautiful and passionate. But she never cared about it enough to actually train and learn how to use it effectively."
Is there a word for...not exactly Doylist because it's not about the writing or the story but serves the same purpose in describing the viewpoint in which you're talking about something from a game mechanics viewpoint?
Watsonian, Doylist, and Gygaxian?
Edited by fredhot16 on Jun 26th 2022 at 2:48:09 AM
Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.In general a villain with high Cha will come off as Faux Affably Evil. Charming enough on the surface, but don't try to see what's inside them. You won't like what's under the lid.
Disgusted, but not surprisedSomeone mentioned Tarquin being charismatic? I just wrote down my impression of him, like I did with V a while back.
It all comes down to DM fiat of course, but in Oot S, I've always seen it to be a combination of Appearance and Personality. That said, it can only go so far — one also has the skills to back that innate charm up.
See Xykon. He has massive Charisma as a Sorcerer, but doesn't have any actual Skills (as in Class skills) to back it up. He's charming, but that's it — he can't talk someone into doing what he wants unless its a threat.
That post was funny, written as a raging narcissist and determined to portray himself in the best light. Very Tarquin.
I'm aware of that, I'm describing why I thought it was funny.
Edited by jjjj2 on Jul 4th 2022 at 10:11:22 AM
You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the midYou know, it sometimes makes you wonder what Elan's and Nale's mother ever saw in him.
We learn from history that we do not learn from historyShe was probably charmed by him in her youth but realized early on in the marriage that he was dangerous. Probably around the time he murdered everyone in the first bar she worked at when one of the patrons groped her.
It's actually a bit surprising that Tarquin was willing to divorce her and leave her in peace with Elan. That's a lot more grace and consideration than one would expect from Tarquin considering he's pulled the Scarpia Ultimatum multiple times.
Edited by M84 on Jul 5th 2022 at 2:09:17 AM
Disgusted, but not surprised
Maybe Elan was annoying even back then, so Tarquin thought it would be best to leave him behind with his mother, and took Nale who he considered was clever.
It's also possible that he was more tolerant of dissent before obtaining a position of actual political authority. Like, without the ability to threaten someone with legal force for refusing to follow the plan, he hadn't yet had the moment where it occurred to him that he could; at least he certainly couldn't have gotten accustomed to using it as a tool in all his relationships, which would've affected how he relates to people.
He also may have had the "I am a suave villainous mastermind" persona, but wouldn't have had the decades of success to assure him he has superior judgement and knows what's best for the family regardless of their opinions. He only had a couple pages of his life story written down at the time and erasing a few paragraphs because they didn't go as planned wasn't a big deal, but by now he hasn't rewritten a scene in years.
Edited by Noaqiyeum on Jul 5th 2022 at 8:05:33 PM
ERROR: The current state of the world is unacceptable. Save anyway? YES/NO![]()
In the immediate sense, near-zero, but it might be another piece in the puzzle that'll eventually form his Heel Realisation.

Charisma in D&D isn't just about appearance, remember? Appearance is a part of it, but it's also about the ability to persuade, charm, and influence. An attractive, low-Cha character could be played as someone with No Social Skills, a massive introvert, or a Jerkass: people may initially be interested in them for their looks but realize that they aren't worth the effort to get to know.
Edited by Fighteer on Jun 26th 2022 at 4:47:56 AM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"