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This is the thread for discussion of The Order of the Stick plot, characters, etc. We have a separate thread for discussing game rules and mechanics. Excessive rules discussions here may be thumped as off-topic.

OP edited to make this header - Fighteer

edited 18th Sep '17 1:08:08 PM by Fighteer

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#59726: Jun 26th 2022 at 1:45:58 PM

Charisma in D&D isn't just about appearance, remember? Appearance is a part of it, but it's also about the ability to persuade, charm, and influence. An attractive, low-Cha character could be played as someone with No Social Skills, a massive introvert, or a Jerkass: people may initially be interested in them for their looks but realize that they aren't worth the effort to get to know.

Edited by Fighteer on Jun 26th 2022 at 4:47:56 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Tharkun140 The Arch-Douchebag Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: What is this thing you call love?
The Arch-Douchebag
#59727: Jun 26th 2022 at 1:49:39 PM

[up] That's what I said. If you want to calculate a character's beauty from charisma you have to "deduct" their social skills from the sum, which is why there is a good argument for Miko being basically perfect in terms of appearance.

Apathy is Death. Worse than Death, because at least a rotting corpse feeds beasts and insects.
FuzzyBoots from Outlying borough of Pittsburgh (there's a lot of Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
#59728: Jun 26th 2022 at 2:44:59 PM

As per the Comeliness score from AD&D Unearthed Arcana.

fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#59729: Jun 26th 2022 at 2:46:29 PM

I heard of a neat Watsonian way to put in this thread for Miko: "I think she just didn't put any points in Charisma-based skills. Even if she had an 18 Charisma, which grants a +4 bonus to Diplomacy, that's just not a meaningful bonus to a level 15 or so character. Elan, for example, would probably have at least a +10, not even counting his ability bonus. Or to say it in non-rules terms: Miko has a great talent for persuasion, due to being beautiful and passionate. But she never cared about it enough to actually train and learn how to use it effectively."

Is there a word for...not exactly Doylist because it's not about the writing or the story but serves the same purpose in describing the viewpoint in which you're talking about something from a game mechanics viewpoint?

Watsonian, Doylist, and Gygaxian?

Edited by fredhot16 on Jun 26th 2022 at 2:48:09 AM

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#59730: Jun 26th 2022 at 9:35:52 PM

Note that Xykon probably has high Cha too, being a powerful Sorcerer. Redcloak has even said he's very funny and charming even though one must never forget that he's also a monster.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Resileafs I actually wanted to be Resileaf Since: Jan, 2019
I actually wanted to be Resileaf
#59731: Jun 26th 2022 at 9:38:45 PM

Tarquin is himself a silver fox with overflowing charisma (Haley directly states that she's glad that Elan will remain hot as he ages), and he's barely under Team Evil in amount of sheer suffering caused.

Edited by Resileafs on Jun 26th 2022 at 12:39:57 PM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#59732: Jun 26th 2022 at 11:07:11 PM

In general a villain with high Cha will come off as Faux Affably Evil. Charming enough on the surface, but don't try to see what's inside them. You won't like what's under the lid.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Tharkun140 The Arch-Douchebag Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: What is this thing you call love?
The Arch-Douchebag
#59733: Jul 4th 2022 at 1:21:03 PM

Someone mentioned Tarquin being charismatic? I just wrote down my impression of him, like I did with V a while back.

Apathy is Death. Worse than Death, because at least a rotting corpse feeds beasts and insects.
MyssaRei Since: Feb, 2010
#59734: Jul 4th 2022 at 2:44:05 PM

It all comes down to DM fiat of course, but in Oot S, I've always seen it to be a combination of Appearance and Personality. That said, it can only go so far — one also has the skills to back that innate charm up.

See Xykon. He has massive Charisma as a Sorcerer, but doesn't have any actual Skills (as in Class skills) to back it up. He's charming, but that's it — he can't talk someone into doing what he wants unless its a threat.

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#59735: Jul 4th 2022 at 4:00:53 PM

Tharkun, that link you provided takes me to a Reddit thread about a man having problems relating to his son. Wrong link?

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
shigmiya64 Somebody get this freaking duck away from me! from a settlement that needs our help, General Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
Somebody get this freaking duck away from me!
#59736: Jul 4th 2022 at 4:07:02 PM

[Xykon] can't talk someone into doing what he wants unless its a threat.

Intimidation checks use Charisma

ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#59737: Jul 4th 2022 at 4:10:02 PM

[up][up]No, the post is written as Tarquin.

My musician page
jjjj2 from Arrakis Since: Jul, 2015
#59738: Jul 4th 2022 at 4:13:19 PM

That post was funny, written as a raging narcissist and determined to portray himself in the best light. Very Tarquin.

[down] I'm aware of that, I'm describing why I thought it was funny.

Edited by jjjj2 on Jul 4th 2022 at 10:11:22 AM

You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#59739: Jul 4th 2022 at 6:51:05 PM

Yeah, that's the joke. It's a parody AITA as if it was written by Tarquin. It really highlights what a narcissistic asshole he is.

Disgusted, but not surprised
DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#59740: Jul 4th 2022 at 10:31:11 PM

You know, it sometimes makes you wonder what Elan's and Nale's mother ever saw in him.

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#59741: Jul 4th 2022 at 11:01:06 PM

She was probably charmed by him in her youth but realized early on in the marriage that he was dangerous. Probably around the time he murdered everyone in the first bar she worked at when one of the patrons groped her.

It's actually a bit surprising that Tarquin was willing to divorce her and leave her in peace with Elan. That's a lot more grace and consideration than one would expect from Tarquin considering he's pulled the Scarpia Ultimatum multiple times.

Edited by M84 on Jul 5th 2022 at 2:09:17 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
petersohn from Earth, Solar System (Long Runner) Relationship Status: Hiding
#59742: Jul 4th 2022 at 11:18:15 PM

[up]Maybe Elan was annoying even back then, so Tarquin thought it would be best to leave him behind with his mother, and took Nale who he considered was clever.

Fjón þvæ ég af mér fjanda minna rán og reiði ríkra manna.
Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#59743: Jul 4th 2022 at 11:20:38 PM

Maybe it's because she actually went to court. He's Lawful Evil, maybe he was okay with it since he probably wasn't that invested anyway. The same kind of mindset that thinks it's okay to torture someone into marrying him since hey, she agreed, right?

Wryte Since: Jul, 2010
#59744: Jul 4th 2022 at 11:46:20 PM

Or he thought it would set up a series of dramatic opportunities years down the line that he couldn't bear to pass up.

Noaqiyeum we must dissent (it/they) from across the gulf of space (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
we must dissent (it/they)
#59745: Jul 5th 2022 at 12:03:59 AM

It's also possible that he was more tolerant of dissent before obtaining a position of actual political authority. Like, without the ability to threaten someone with legal force for refusing to follow the plan, he hadn't yet had the moment where it occurred to him that he could; at least he certainly couldn't have gotten accustomed to using it as a tool in all his relationships, which would've affected how he relates to people.

He also may have had the "I am a suave villainous mastermind" persona, but wouldn't have had the decades of success to assure him he has superior judgement and knows what's best for the family regardless of their opinions. He only had a couple pages of his life story written down at the time and erasing a few paragraphs because they didn't go as planned wasn't a big deal, but by now he hasn't rewritten a scene in years.

Edited by Noaqiyeum on Jul 5th 2022 at 8:05:33 PM

ERROR: The current state of the world is unacceptable. Save anyway? YES/NO
Will29 (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#59747: Jul 5th 2022 at 4:14:21 AM

Lots of scorch marks on that panel. Maybe they won't mind the one from the portal?

Daremo Misanthrope Supreme from Parts Unknown Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: If it's you, it's okay
#59748: Jul 5th 2022 at 4:18:22 AM

What are the odds Redcloack is going to get the subtext of Oona's anecdote?

Creed of the Happy Pessimist:Always expect the worst. Then, when it happens, it was only what you expected. All else is a happy surprise.
dcutter2 Since: Sep, 2013
#59749: Jul 5th 2022 at 4:19:17 AM

Almost rumbled MitD there but Redcloak's mind went down pre-existing patterns instead.

Kayeka (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#59750: Jul 5th 2022 at 4:31:40 AM

[up][up]In the immediate sense, near-zero, but it might be another piece in the puzzle that'll eventually form his Heel Realisation.


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