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This is the thread for discussion of The Order of the Stick plot, characters, etc. We have a separate thread for discussing game rules and mechanics. Excessive rules discussions here may be thumped as off-topic.

OP edited to make this header - Fighteer

edited 18th Sep '17 1:08:08 PM by Fighteer

Euodiachloris Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
Aug 9th 2018 at 1:39:11 PM

[up]Didn't say Lawful will stick to the same breakfast every day at the same time. Holidays happen (buffet breakfasts are great). Or, you find the shops haven't stocked the usual. Or whatever.

But, of Chaotic vs Lawful... one will go and poke at the stinky cheese and think about breakfast opportunities before the other will. Or yell at whoever is selling the stinky cheese over writing a letter of complaint to the council. wink

Fighteer Geronimo! from the Time Vortex Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Geronimo!
Aug 9th 2018 at 1:40:32 PM

You're still mired in an inaccurate stereotype of Chaotic. If you aren't interested in having that debate, it's up to you, but your impression is overly narrow (ironically).

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Clarste One Winged Egret Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
Aug 9th 2018 at 1:41:21 PM

I think Chaotic people can still impose their will on others. Might Makes Right is pretty much the archetypal Chaotic Evil society.

RainehDaze from Scotland Relationship Status: Mu
Aug 9th 2018 at 1:41:28 PM

A belief in the freedom of the individual doesn't equate to a belief that the individual be forced to use that freedom. If you have the choice to try all these new things but deliberately don't because you don't want to, that doesn't exclude you from being chaotic. Otherwise you're defining chaotic by being forced to fit certain behaviours, which would be defining Chaotic as Lawful.

I STILL LIVE
Fighteer Geronimo! from the Time Vortex Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Geronimo!
Aug 9th 2018 at 1:43:18 PM

[up][up] In that sense, "freedom" is the right to seek power over others through superior might, rather than through formalized legal systems.

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Euodiachloris Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
Aug 9th 2018 at 1:55:45 PM

Let me put it another way: Chaotic will prefer to think outside the box. Because it sees a box as just a box; there's way more ways and ideas than the stuff you find in the box you were brought up in (and some of it might work better to free your time and effort up). Lawful can be very creative... in the box while using what they find within the box in ways they were taught to and only occasionally reaching outside the box when that which is within the box isn't up to the job they want to do (but, old stuff you know for sure works within the box is more reliable).

Lawful needs Chaos to import things and show that, yes, they can, indeed go into the box and work within the box; Chaos needs Lawful to remind them that the things within the box are still valid things to play with in the way that the box likes... even when outside the box.

It also depends on how you define the box as to which is which at whichever time, as well.

Edited by Euodiachloris on Aug 9th 2018 at 9:59:48 AM

RainehDaze from Scotland Relationship Status: Mu
Aug 9th 2018 at 2:35:59 PM

That seems like a fundamental misunderstanding of the entire purpose of alignment and trying to turn it into a problem solving attitude.

I STILL LIVE
Euodiachloris Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
Aug 9th 2018 at 3:01:24 PM

Philosophy, personality and behaviour: they're all linked. <_< Dunno how that's news. :|

RainehDaze from Scotland Relationship Status: Mu
Aug 9th 2018 at 3:04:56 PM

Not to this utterly reductive sense where Chaotic means not being able to work within strictures, Lawful means not being able to think outside the box, and both of them are a straitjacket that demand that you have highly particular personality traits where you must start being stereotypical to qualify because of completely irrelevant preferences.

I STILL LIVE
Aug 9th 2018 at 3:07:03 PM

This conversation reminds me of the time I saw this big discussion in which someone was arguing that Tarquin wasn't Lawful because of his flare for the dramatic.

Fighteer Geronimo! from the Time Vortex Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Geronimo!
Aug 9th 2018 at 3:26:00 PM

Alignments are categories, not straitjackets. The way a character behaves and relates to the world determines which of those categories they most accurately fit within. Nobody says, In-Universe, "I'm Lawful Good, so how do I need to behave today?" That's something players do, and it's one of the reasons why the alignment system gets a bad rap.

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TobiasDrake Always watching, never seen from Colorado, USA Relationship Status: She's holding a very large knife
Always watching, never seen
Aug 9th 2018 at 4:57:32 PM

Alignment is an effect, not a cause. The aggregate product of one's choices, not the motive for making them.

The only thing you protest when you don't vote is your own ability to affect policy. If you can't vote for perfect, then vote for better.
TheLovecraftian Relationship Status: Seeking boyfriend-free girl
Aug 9th 2018 at 5:00:06 PM

I tend to interpret alignment more as guidelines whenever I DM. It's not a strict set of rules of conduct, just one more way to direct roleplay and characterization.

wingedcatgirl Let's go read a buncha books! from Catgirl Heaven, presumably Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
Aug 9th 2018 at 6:05:41 PM

There's a reason The Great Character Alignment Debate never, ever, ever ends...

Sylvi | Tempest | 🐱 she/her or they/them
DeMarquis Who Am I? from Hell, USA Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
Who Am I?
Aug 9th 2018 at 7:39:34 PM

"There's a reason someone created an alignment chart with Batman in each position◊ it's because characters are rarely so simplistic as to be easily assigned to a bucket on a 3x3 grid." Heh.

I read somewhere that Gary Gygax and co originally developed the alignment system in order to more easily role play certain common literary arctypes. Robin Hood, for example, was supposed to be Chaotic Good, because he breaks the law (steals from the rich) in order to serve the good (gives to the poor). The Sheriff of Nottingham would have been lawful evil, because he enforces the law (collects taxes) in order to do evil (profit himself). In a way, the Good vs Evil alignment was primary, and the Lawful vs Chaotic alignment provided context to the Good vs Evil axis (because that's the way classic literature did it). It all broke down pretty quickly because almost no one plays D&D in order to deliberaty re-create a literary archtype.

I dont play D&D very much, but I think it could be a useful guide to role-playing, or writing, as long as you dont try to turn it into a set of rules or a moral code. It's a tendency, nothing more. "They are Lawful Good because they do lawful good things" is far too simplistic for any well-written character. People are good in some situations, and evil in others, likewise for chaotic and lawful. All well-written characters are complex like that. Some are good in more situations than than they are evil, some the opposite. If the context they happen to be in at a given moment doesnt help determine how they will act, then they just aren't a well-written character.

Rick doesnt seem to have a problem with this, but many of his fans do.

Edited by DeMarquis on Aug 9th 2018 at 10:39:45 AM

I do not compromise—I synthesize.
Aug 9th 2018 at 8:00:20 PM

Speaking of alignments, I find it interesting that we know both Roy's Mom and Elan's Mom have Good alignments despite seemingly mostly just living normal lives.

If the default is True Neutral it's kind of interesting to think about.

DrunkenNordmann from Exile
Aug 9th 2018 at 8:02:37 PM

[up][up] Personally, I always saw the alignment system more as a guideline.

Good for getting a feel for what your character's supposed to act like, but not something you should treat like bloody gospel.

I've been told that what separates a bad DM from a good DM is how anal they get about alignments.

Edited by DrunkenNordmann on Aug 9th 2018 at 5:02:42 PM

"A witty saying proves nothing."
wingedcatgirl Let's go read a buncha books! from Catgirl Heaven, presumably Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
Aug 10th 2018 at 5:35:28 AM

Comic

Well, this could go anywhere.

e: First wild mass guess: Durkon saying the word 'Snarl' set off something that let Thor show up in a way that gods are normally forbidden/discouraged from doing with just-dead mortals?

Edited by wingedcatgirl on Aug 10th 2018 at 5:36:21 AM

Sylvi | Tempest | 🐱 she/her or they/them
Kostya from Everywhere Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Aug 10th 2018 at 5:39:12 AM

So because they're in the antechamber Durkon should remember this conversation. I have a feeling we're finally going to get some answers on what's really going on with the Snarl.

Also Thor is huge.

Edit:[up]He didn't just appear. They're walking around his boot.

Edited by Kostya on Aug 10th 2018 at 8:40:41 AM

tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas
Professional Forum Ninja
Aug 10th 2018 at 5:46:07 AM

Oot S Gods were always treated as huge compared to mortal souls and other divine or hellish beings.

Just never this huge. Previous depictions of Gods had mortals about shoe size, where now they barely go up a third of the way.

In Hel's first appearance in the comic, the dwarf soul her and Thor were fighting over was about waist height. In the comic in her domain, the souls cleaning her throne are about ankle high comparatively.

EDIT: Oh fuck, I didn't even notice they were on the fur lining on the top of his boot. That is fucking huge.

Edited by tclittle on Aug 10th 2018 at 7:49:41 AM

So I'll make a resolution That I'll never make another one Just enjoy this ride on my trip around the sun Until it's done
wingedcatgirl Let's go read a buncha books! from Catgirl Heaven, presumably Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
Aug 10th 2018 at 5:46:58 AM

[up][up]Oh, damn, I somehow didn't notice that.

Clearly it's retroactive, then. Gods can do that, right?

Sylvi | Tempest | 🐱 she/her or they/them
Aug 10th 2018 at 5:47:29 AM

It's weird seeing the art style zoomed in this far. Like, everyone in this universe skips leg day.

TheLovecraftian Relationship Status: Seeking boyfriend-free girl
Aug 10th 2018 at 5:50:07 AM

...didn't see that coming. Fair enough. Let's see where it goes.

TobiasDrake Always watching, never seen from Colorado, USA Relationship Status: She's holding a very large knife
Always watching, never seen
Aug 10th 2018 at 5:50:32 AM

Guys. This is serious, you guys. Some shit is about to go down.

Thor's sober.

The only thing you protest when you don't vote is your own ability to affect policy. If you can't vote for perfect, then vote for better.
Aug 10th 2018 at 5:55:22 AM

Fuck me you're right.


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