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WorstUsernameEver BEST Coffee Ever from Italy.. maybe. Since: May, 2010
BEST Coffee Ever
#3201: May 21st 2010 at 2:01:12 AM

^Lol, yeah, it's probably just a misunderstanding. tongue

Now, back to the chapter itself, I'm wondering what we should expect from next chapter. Yeah, at the end it says something about Naruto fighting Kyuubi, but considering that text is usually written by an editor and it's wrong more often than it's not, I guess we'll probably go back to Sasuke or the Madara/Kabuto couple (no.. I didn't mean it that way).

edited 21st May '10 2:01:25 AM by WorstUsernameEver

I'm not a bug, I'm a feature!
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#3202: May 21st 2010 at 4:03:25 AM

Out of those three it is the best (I read all three and can give logical arguments as to why).

You do realize people don't decide which stories they like based on logical arguments, right?

Belian In honor of my 50lb pup from 42 Since: Jan, 2001
In honor of my 50lb pup
#3203: May 21st 2010 at 7:07:07 AM

Darn. And here I thought I could set the topic aside.

^Should have said "semi-logical reasons." My reasons for why One Piece is better sound logical in my head, but it is possible that someone else would dislike it for the exact same reasons. Though I am not sure why "most consistent plot/writing" would turn someone away...

Yu hav nat sein bod speeling unntil know. (cacke four undersandig tis)the cake is a lie!
silver2195 Since: Jan, 2001
#3204: May 21st 2010 at 7:09:58 AM

One Piece has the worst characterization of the Big Three.

Currently taking a break from the site. See my user page for more information.
Roman Love Freak Since: Jan, 2010
Belian In honor of my 50lb pup from 42 Since: Jan, 2001
In honor of my 50lb pup
#3206: May 21st 2010 at 7:54:49 AM

And my point on the "semi-logical reasons that can be why someone else does not like it" is proven.

^^Ok, not sure where that is coming from. Every main, side, and villainous character I can think of has their own, complete or work-in-progress, personality. I'll admit it has slower characterization, but I don't see how it is the "worst" of the three. (I could go into reasons, but this is a Naruto thread, not a debate thread.)

^An issue with the art style is hard to argue. All I could say is "it will grow on you" but if you don't like an aspect of the main character, that would not work out well. You might like where it currently is/is going better then the start, but I wont push for you to read it.

ANYWAY, if there are more "questions," make a new thread or take them over to the One Piece thread. Lets NOT continue this here.

edited 21st May '10 7:58:31 AM by Belian

Yu hav nat sein bod speeling unntil know. (cacke four undersandig tis)the cake is a lie!
Karmakin Moar and Moar and Moar Since: Aug, 2009
Moar and Moar and Moar
#3207: May 21st 2010 at 7:57:05 AM

I haven't really found a One Piece arc engaging since the desert kingdom one. Eh, Skytopia was pretty good too. I'm not saying it's a bad series by any means. It's just not for me.

Bleach is running on very strong fumes but fumes none the less. For me it's running on the memories of Soul Society arc, or the promise of interesting stuff with Urahara/Isshan, or the next arc-bridge if we even get one after the Aizen fight. (What I mean is, them back to human form, more characterization. Actually. I'll admit it. I want to see Ichigo and Orahime together. Ok? Is that so wrong?)

Naruto is by far the strongest in terms of recent content of the big three. Everything post time-skip is very good IMO. There are of course little points that annoy me, but there always is. But as a whole it's the most solid.

Back on topic. The previous chapter, it's odd, watching the anime right after it, where the anime is right now makes crystal clear that Naruto really is accepted as an important part of the Leaf. Even if he has doubts about his status, which is natural considering he was an outcast for so long, those doubts are by and large incorrect.

Democracy is the process in which we determine the government that we deserve
KSPAM PARTY PARTY PARTY I WANNA HAVE A PARTY from PARTY ROCK Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
PARTY PARTY PARTY I WANNA HAVE A PARTY
#3208: May 21st 2010 at 7:58:00 AM

^^If you mean grow on you like a malignant, all devouring tumor, then yes.

I can't make arguments about characters and story. I haven't read it. All I can say is that the combination of wacky art, constant barrage of misused humor and the main character just doesn't sit well with me. I personally prefer something a bit more serious. But that's me.

^Yes. Yes it is.

edited 21st May '10 7:59:30 AM by KSPAM

I've got new mythological machinery, and very handsome supernatural scenery. Goodfae: a mafia web serial
Arilou Taller than Zim from Quasispace Since: Jan, 2001
Taller than Zim
#3209: May 21st 2010 at 8:18:01 AM

I think Naruto's... Tone is the one that most suits me. Bleach feels too shallow, One Piece too... Cartoonish. Naruto also has by far the best art.

"No, the Singularity will not happen. Computation is hard." -Happy Ent
Belian In honor of my 50lb pup from 42 Since: Jan, 2001
In honor of my 50lb pup
#3210: May 21st 2010 at 8:29:13 AM

^^Not sure why you think it is that bad, but there are art styles I can't stand as well. So I know where you are coming from.

^That is a description I can wholeheartedly agree with. Though with recent One Piece events (AKA people dieing on screen and not in back story) the art style has been changing a bit.

Yu hav nat sein bod speeling unntil know. (cacke four undersandig tis)the cake is a lie!
Arilou Taller than Zim from Quasispace Since: Jan, 2001
Taller than Zim
#3211: May 21st 2010 at 8:31:44 AM

The thing is that the One Piece artist is obviously competent: He draws great backgrounds occasionally. It's just that he has a particular style that is ugly as sin. (and I'm pretty tolerant against stylized, cartoony art)

"No, the Singularity will not happen. Computation is hard." -Happy Ent
Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#3212: May 21st 2010 at 8:45:15 AM

I guffawed when I read that line about One Piece being the best of the big three. Mainly because it was such a blatantly (if accidently) flame bait line hid in the middle of an otherwise reasonable rant. So as not to derail this any further, let me just say that I could easily pick it to pieces just like people often do with Naruto and Bleach and have been enjoying it the least since about halfway through the latest arc.

Liisiko Just a teapot Since: Jan, 2010
Just a teapot
#3213: May 21st 2010 at 9:25:40 AM

I don't hate Bleach or One Piece but I don't really like them. I think it's the art style in One Piece that bothers me. Bleach I just never got into reading.

One thing I noticed with the backgrounds in Naruto is that they are sometimes really detailed (When there not The Heart, with things like cracks in walls and stuff like that. I just love little details.

Insert witty one-liner here.
Noimporta Since: Jan, 2001
#3214: May 21st 2010 at 9:56:15 AM

Well, for me, the three are kind of lackluster. However, Naruto hooked me with an excellent first arc and more engaging themes, and Bleach has... something that makes it more enjoyable to discuss than the other two (and given that the experience of long running series is 7 minutes of reading and an hour of talking per chapter, this is a plus), partly the Memetic Mutation, partly something else; also, excellent soundtrack and clothes designs. One Piece has none of this, I followed it up until the Arlong arc when I realized I wasn't enjoying it as it was, even less taking in count there was a ridiculously large archive to binge.

Belian In honor of my 50lb pup from 42 Since: Jan, 2001
In honor of my 50lb pup
#3215: May 21st 2010 at 10:19:28 AM

^^^Guess I was being a little Fan Dumb there myself.tongue

Ok, ok. I get it. I consider One Piece the best of the three, but other people don't. I knew that from the start. Did not really mean for long debate. Just letting out some steam.

...Though it is interesting and at least we are bringing Naruto back into it. My opinion about Naruto is being influenced by the before timeskip stuff and how he basically forgot that his dream is to be Hokage. At least, that is how it felt to me. Post-timeskip is magnitudes better.

edited 21st May '10 10:57:56 AM by Belian

Yu hav nat sein bod speeling unntil know. (cacke four undersandig tis)the cake is a lie!
WorstUsernameEver BEST Coffee Ever from Italy.. maybe. Since: May, 2010
BEST Coffee Ever
#3216: May 21st 2010 at 10:38:53 AM

I personally liked the character driven arc of the pre-timeskip Naruto more, though I don't particularly dislike the post-timeskip either (there a couple of sections I think Kishimoto could have done better, and the pacing was a bit wonky here and there, but overall I'm enjoying the manga). It's not a mindblowing manga, but it's the one I enjoy the most out of the big three.

I'm not a bug, I'm a feature!
Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#3217: May 21st 2010 at 10:50:14 AM

I don't mind people liking One Piece best. It's a very good series, after all. What I mind is people acting like One Piece is in a different league from Naruto and Bleach.

Anyway, my list of things I feel the Naruto Hatedom has a point about, because I feel somebody should say this:

  • Sasuke has not been engagingly written. He only a likeable person during his brief flashback, so the audience never really got the proper Emotional Torque to be interested in his fall; nor were we ever really privy to his thoughts, which shut off another vector for audience sympathy. This has made Naruto's quest redeem Sasuke less relatable.
  • The secondary cast members haven't been utilized to their full potential since the time skip.
  • A few other minor details like the Great Snake Escape and the sheer number of powers the sharingan have are definitely weak points.

edited 21st May '10 10:51:18 AM by Gilphon

KSPAM PARTY PARTY PARTY I WANNA HAVE A PARTY from PARTY ROCK Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
PARTY PARTY PARTY I WANNA HAVE A PARTY
#3218: May 21st 2010 at 12:51:58 PM

I liked the random arcs the first half went into. They had no purpose other than to detail what the series was. A series about the lives of ninjas.

Then Sasuke came around in Part 2 and made the whole damn thing about him. I actually liked the semi-disjointed plots of Part 1, thank you.

I've got new mythological machinery, and very handsome supernatural scenery. Goodfae: a mafia web serial
vandro Shop Owner from The little shop that wasn't Since: Jul, 2009
Shop Owner
#3219: May 21st 2010 at 12:56:44 PM

What the fuck is wrong with you?!  *

Sasuke has always been a Main Character. Stop making a fuss about the guy.

Galeros Slay foes with bow and arrow Since: Jan, 2001
silver2195 Since: Jan, 2001
#3221: May 21st 2010 at 1:01:40 PM

I actually like One Piece. I'm not quite sure whether I like it more or less than Naruto. What I meant about the characterization is that, as Gilphon put it in another thread, people in One Piece tend to be "caricatures, not characters".

Currently taking a break from the site. See my user page for more information.
KSPAM PARTY PARTY PARTY I WANNA HAVE A PARTY from PARTY ROCK Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
PARTY PARTY PARTY I WANNA HAVE A PARTY
#3222: May 21st 2010 at 1:06:12 PM

That sounds about right. Although, in the case of Naruto, I can't exactly say that they don't develop, it's just they develop in a really unsatisfactory way.

I've got new mythological machinery, and very handsome supernatural scenery. Goodfae: a mafia web serial
Arilou Taller than Zim from Quasispace Since: Jan, 2001
Taller than Zim
#3223: May 21st 2010 at 1:55:55 PM

Oh, don't get me wrong, Naruto has a shitton of problems:

  • As mentioned, Kishimoto has a tendency to include a ton of side-characters, these are often likeable, marketable and generally awesome, but they don't serve much point in the story. (It seems) they create a breathing world but don't add story cohesion. The problem is that these side stories are often more interesting than the main story. And also the fact that occasionally he seems to reach back and make something relevant... Only to forget about it again.
  • The second issue is a more general pacing issue. Some things are resolved incredibly quickly, other things drag on, and it's hard to make sense of the "weight" of different things. In a lot of ways this actually reminds me of the problems with Jordan's Wheel Of Time.
  • Unlike others I don't really get the issue with Sasuke. He's got a credible enough backstory to do what he does, and he serves decently well as an antagonist.
  • Occasionally the tone of the show varies WILDLY. Not usually a problem, but occasionally it goes too far. The humour is also often not very funny.
  • And yeah, the series has always been about Naruto and Sasuke. Kishimoto is (without much subtlety I might add) showing us two people and the different paths they take and how this ends up affecting their relationship. It's not new, it's not strange, but that's what the damn thing is about.

edited 21st May '10 1:58:02 PM by Arilou

"No, the Singularity will not happen. Computation is hard." -Happy Ent
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#3224: May 21st 2010 at 2:20:47 PM

Nevermind. Just saw that someone already noticed the digression and pointed it out in the middle of his single-paragraph post.

edited 21st May '10 2:22:22 PM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Belian In honor of my 50lb pup from 42 Since: Jan, 2001
In honor of my 50lb pup
#3225: May 21st 2010 at 5:53:34 PM

^ Which time? We have digressed, come back to Naruto, digressed again, and tied the digression into talk about Naruto. I'm sure I missed some steps/digressions there, but who can keep it all strait?

Yu hav nat sein bod speeling unntil know. (cacke four undersandig tis)the cake is a lie!

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