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YMMV / Dai Gyakuten Saiban: Naruhodou Ryuunosuke no Bouken

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This page is for the spinoff game, Dai Gyakuten Saiban: Naruhodou Ryuunosuke no Bouken.

For other such moments in the series, see the appropriate subpages:

  • Alternate Character Interpretation: Are Holmes' deductions genuinely Insane Troll Logic or is he faking it to act as a Stealth Mentor to Ryunosuke?
  • Base-Breaking Character:
    • Sherlock Holmes himself. Takumi took certain liberties with his character and divided the fanbase into two camps: Those who think he's an Adorkable goofball and those who think he's a moronic man-child who can never get anything correct. Most players end up warming up to him with time, likely thanks in part to how fun the Joint Reasoning mechanic is and inviting Ryuunosuke and Susato to live with them in 221B at the end of Case 4, but the first impressions still tend to be strong either way. With the plethora of adaptations for the series, he may have been (fairly or not) compared to other adaptations of the character more than how he was in the source material, and some fans argue that it's actually easy to pick up the Doyle canon and read it imagining Takumi's Sherlock Holmes. It has been expressed in an interview how Takumi himself sees him.
      Takumi (on his favorite Sherlock Holmes stories): I'm often asked that, but I find it hard to answer. But I think the easiest answer is the first 12 stories that make up the first short story collection. People think of Holmes as the great detective, but even he makes mistakes at times and feels bad because of them, and there's the friendship with Watson. He's a very human character. You'll understand that as you read more of his stories, so I recommend reading a lot of them.
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    • The culprit of the final case divides the fanbase a bit, mainly due to how obvious they are by final case villain standards. (Their introduction involves using an alias that is hilariously, blatantly fake to a native English speaker, and questioning them ends with them pulling a gun on you) But they still have fans since being the killer is hardly the biggest reveal about them, and their backstory is quite deep. There's also the fact that Megundal is ultimately the true Big Bad of the game despite dying in Case 3, something that is much more well-hidden.
  • Big-Lipped Alligator Moment: In case 4 these two show up for a scene, and are never mentioned again. Until Case 2 of the second game, where they play an integral part of the story.
  • Broken Base:
    • The fact that unlike most other games in the series (which may have had one or two Sequel Hooks but nothing too major), this game was very clearly written with a sequel (or several) in mind, containing a huge number of unresolved plot points. Some feel it adds some intriguing mysteries to be explored in sequels, others feel it weakens the stand-alone narrative of this game. Not to mention this can make things very confusing when it comes to deducing solutions, as the series is normally very strict about the Law of Conservation of Detail. The developers are probably aware of this, as the sequel's Tag Line is "This time, all mysteries will come to light".
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    • Upon the release of the second game, a common complaint is that it feels far more like a Mission-Pack Sequel (or even One Game for the Price of Two) than any previous game, being the first game since Trials and Tribulations to not introduce any new gameplay elements along with reusing much of the first game's music (the Courtroom Lobby, Trial, Cross-Examination, Pursuit and Tell the Truth themes, among others, are all reused from DGS1). The reused music is a major point of contention, with some finding it adds to the interconnected feel of the games and others finding it lazy.
    • The Reveal in the sequel that Yuujin Mikotoba is the real "Watson" from Holmes' stories divided the fanbase. Some love the twist and feel it gives an otherwise bland character a lot more depth and relevance, as well as adding more depth to Holmes, while fans attached to the original Holmes stories find it off-putting or outright insulting that a character created for this game replaced a beloved canon one. There's also Fridge Logic involving Iris Watson, with the revelation implying Holmes was perfectly okay with letting Iris think a total stranger was her father, making him seem like a bit of a jerk to some people.
  • Captain Obvious Reveal:
    • Almost no-one was surprised at the Big Bad of the second game being Hart Vortex, due to the character being Obviously Evil by Ace Attorney standards, being a Large Ham in a major position of power within the legal system, having an intimidating name and being met briefly a few times in the first game without ever having a major role. Somewhat balanced out by the writers throwing in an accomplice no-one saw coming: the Japanese judge.
    • Subverted with Iris Watson's parentage. The first game plays her being John Watson's daughter as a twist, despite that being the most obvious answer. Then the sequel reveals this isn't true at all. She's really the child of Barok Van Zeiks' brother.
  • Crosses the Line Twice: Takezuchi Auchi's "breakdown" upon losing in the sequel. The game seriously leads you to believe he's going to commit Seppuku right there, and he even composes a death poem. He winces, picks up the knife.... and cuts off a strand of his hair instead. Which instantly wraps around to being hilarious, especially as the game still plays it as a Tear Jerker, including playing the sad variant of Asogi Kazuma's theme.
  • Ensemble Dark Horse:
    • Asougi Kazuma turned out to be a case of Advertised Extra, but is extremely popular with fans due to his samurai theme, incredibly awesome theme tune and friendship with Ryuunosuke. The writers confessed in interviews that he ended up much more popular than they expected. He's a case of Not-So-Small Role in the sequel, though whether it's a case of Saved by the Fans or not is unknown.
    • Haori Murasame from the second game instantly became one of the series' more popular defendants when she physically stopped the culprit mid-breakdown by judo-throwing him with Susato's help.
    • Enoch Drebber only appears in one case, but he's one of the second game's most popular characters due to his cool Steampunk design, Creepy Awesome robot-like movements, amazing theme music, the satisfying build up to actually finding him and being a great villain.
  • Hilarious in Hindsight:
    • In the English Localization of one of the games, Nick refers to himself as "Sherlock Holmes II." Here, his ancestor actually works alongside Holmes himself.
    • A throwaway joke for presenting random evidence in Dual Destinies involved one character exclaiming "The true culprit is the judge!" You could also accuse the judge at one point in Justice for All for a massive penalty. Come Dai Gyakuten Saiban 2 and... not one, but two judges are villains, and one of them is the Big Bad.
  • Narm:
    • Van Zieks' method of intimidating the defense is to slam his leg onto the bench. It's rather silly-looking, to say the least, and spawned memes the moment it was seen in one of the promotional trailers.
    • Some of the names for London characters can come across this way to native English speakers, like Hart Vortex, Adam Ladyfirst and Egg Benedict. The last is an alias, but in some ways that makes it even more silly.
    • Barok's bottle-throwing animation can be hilarious sometimes. Adventure of the Clouded Kokoro makes a point of this right after Susato calls him out on insulting a story and suggesting that the witness be questioned instead- the latter was unprecedented at the time, of course.
  • Rescued from the Scrappy Heap: Yuujin Mikotoba was considered a very forgettable character in the original game, with the fandom barely acknowledging him. But then the sequel reveals he was the real "Watson" all along, gives him much more focus in the game's final cases, and even makes him temporarily playable in a joint investigation with Holmes, making him a lot more interesting as a character.
  • Ship-to-Ship Combat: Between the three major ships: Sherlock x Ryuunosuke, Asogi x Ryuunosuke, and Barok x Ryuunosuke.
  • Shocking Moments: The final villain's breakdown in the second game is downright jaw-dropping and widely agreed to be one of the best in the series.
  • Shocking Swerve: While most of the twists in the sequel fit into the plot well and have decent amounts of foreshadowing, Iris' parentage feels more like a twist for the sake of a twist. It isn't fully revealed until after the final trial is over, so it doesn't impact any of the actual cases, and the way it's done leaves a lot of questions. While it makes sense that Sherlock wouldn't want Iris knowing her father was a serial killer, that he'd allow her to go on thinking John H. Watson, a total stranger, was her father for years seems suspect. And since the John H. Watson in this universe is literally Watson In Name Only, her having the surname doesn't carry any real significance except to trick the players. Not a lot of the plot would change if she really was Watson's daughter. It also leads to a short subplot where Yuujin is suspected of fathering her via an affair that doesn't end up going anywhere.
  • Surprisingly Improved Sequel:
    • Single case example. The Adventure of the Clouded Kokoro wasn't a particularly well-liked case for a number of reasons, such as The Garridebs being Unintentionally Unsympathetic and the whole plot being one big Contrived Coincidence. Its Sequel Episode in the second game, The Memoir of the Clouded Kokoro, has received very positive reception, due to hiding one of its bigger twists from the marketing (namely the victim actually survived his poisoning) and for having essentially two villains, both of whom were well-received. Some have called it the best second case in the series.
    • The second game in general is much more beloved than the first game, which was mostly considered So Okay, It's Average apart from Case 3. Many consider the second game's finale to be among the best in the series.
  • They Wasted a Perfectly Good Character:
    • Many fans wish "Ryutaro Naruhodo" from the sequel were playable in more than one case, as she has new "Objection" and "Prelude" themes in contrast to the reused music in the rest of the trials, has a fun design and manages to be both hilarious and awesome.
    • Courtney Sithe in the second game. Pre-release materials build her up as a major figure in the plot, "The head coroner of Scotland Yard, who works at the forefront of the legal system's march towards forensic science." This could have led to some interesting themes to explore. Instead she's the killer of the first case she appears in, and is promptly arrested and is only mentioned in passing afterwards. Some suspect her role was greatly reduced when the planned trilogy became a duology, with one theory being she would've been the second game's Big Bad.
    • Many of the jurors have fun designs and quirky personalities, meaning they could easily stand as proper characters of their own, however, most of them don't even get names (besides the ones who appeared in previous cases as witnesses like John Garrideb and Oscar Fairplay) and their participation is often restricted to the closing arguments and final verdict. The worst example by far is Dmitri Demiglaski, a Russian revolutionary who is built up as an important figure all the way back in Case 2, but eventually, he does nothing more than being Juror 6 in Case 5. The only ones who seem to avert this are Mrs. Altamont and Anna Mittlemont from the second game.
  • They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot: Related to Shocking Swerve above, Iris turns out to be Barok van Zeiks' niece, yet only learns of this fact after the final trial is over. There could have been some neat emotional drama if either found out the truth while Barok was in the defendant's chair. As a result, a possible character interaction is never explored the way it could have been.
  • Unexpected Character: Who would have guessed that Sherlock Holmes would appear in an Ace Attorney spin-off?
  • The Woobie: Surprisingly, this game's "Payne": Takezuchi Auchi. He lacks a lot of the less sympathetic qualities of his modern-day counterparts while keeping the Butt-Monkey and Ineffectual Sympathetic Villain aspects, and is also an Extreme Doormat to practically everyone in the courtroom. In the second game, he's primarily motivated by avenging his past failure, and when he loses again he cuts off his newly-grown strand of hair (which he'd earlier seen as a symbol of hope for a comeback) in shame, in a manner resembling Seppuku. It's hard not to feel sorry for him in the end.
    • Viridian Green. Her fiance, Duncan Ross was killed by gas fumes in his home one night, which she blames herself for even now. His death sent her into a deep, inescapable impression, as her lifeless sprites suggest. Then she realised it might have been a murder, rather than an accident. In order to be sure, she conceived a plot that would reveal to her, once and for all, if the death of Duncan was just an accident. She was then stabbed in the back in a freak accident. Had Holmes not intervened, she would have killed herself with the poison she bought on the black market.

Alternative Title(s): Dai Gyakuten Saiban


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