Works with their own pages
- Batman (1966)
- Batman: The Animated Series
- The Batman
- Batman Returns
- Batman Forever
- Batman & Robin
- The Dark Knight Trilogy
- Joker (2019)
- The Batman (2022)
- Robin (1993)
In general
- Albeit unintentionally. Allow me to explain: given the Joker's proclivity to screw with people, Harley was likely meant to be an example of how he treats others, regardless of how close they think they can be to him. The writers seem to be aware of this as demonstrated in the story through years of physical and psychological abuse, at the hands of the Joker, culminating in the eventual moving on phase (her working on her own, with Ivy, the occasional flirtations with Bats and later her being part of Suicide Squad), If anything, she and the Joker's entire relationship is a textbook example (if not the definitive example) of real-life abusive relationships. In short, this was probably the writers' way of trying to deride the idea of "Mista J" in a relationship. But damned if they didn't make one hell of a lovable character in Harleen......
- So... Batman is Tommy Elliot?
- That would certainly explain why the Robins all look just like a young Bruce Wayne.
- Or why Dick Grayson was allowed to go live with some random rich guy. Apparently, his family didn't have any friends in the circus.
- Or why a character like Batman, who relies heavily on stealth, has a partner who wears bright red, yellow, and green? It doesn't matter, because no one else can see Robin.
- Not so. The Joker can see Robin, as we find out in a one-shot issue where he's talking about Robin continuously coming back after he killed Jason. This could be a shared hallucination or two crazy people just playing off of each other's insanity since Joker actively kills a Robin at least once. So this leads to the implication that the Joker isn't just crazy enough to see the fourth wall and lean on it, but he's also crazy enough to see other crazy people's hallucinations.
- Also, Ra's al Ghul brings Jason back to life. Wanting to have Bruce be the future head of the Demon would make him want Bruce to have a clear head, so playing off of his delusions would not be part of his agenda. Not to mention that many other people can see Robin and not just the Joker. This includes most characters in the series. Besides, who took over as Batman after the Final Crisis, and who founded the Teen Titans?
- Do you one better. His power is his ability to inexplicably prepare for almost every circumstance, including entirely unforeseeable ones. He's not consciously aware of the power, and it's subtle enough that people assume it's just because he's a paranoid genius.
- His other power is having exactly the correct Bat-gadget to deal with any situation.
- Wayne enterprises makes a lot of its money selling weaponry to top-secret organizations; weaponry that Batman has trained with and tested against some of the toughest villains ever. Alternatively, Batman is "training" his nemesis to be nearly unstoppable, except by him. That way he can release them whenever he wants and have a rampaging, chaotic army. This threat keeps the money pouring in for him.
- The last thing he's in need of is more money.
- Capital itself creates the need for accumulation. To hold such a big corporation together, you have to expand constantly.
- The last thing he's in need of is more money.
- He makes his villains stronger and stronger by sending them back to the hellhole that is Arkham. Every villain who has visited there has come back not rehabilitated, but even more dangerous than when they went in. Look at what happened with Destiny, Calendar man, and Dr. Crane, not to mention Harley Quinn. Arkham Asylum is not attempting any therapy on its patients; instead, they are a breeding ground for tougher and tougher villains. That's why Batman doesn't kill them, he needs them for testing and to hold as a threat against the world.
- If he needed testing or a threat, he'd have more than enough of those things in the villains he fights on the Gotham streets or with the Justice League.
Mark Hamill's Joker and Heath Ledger's Joker seem like they would get along.
This is how Joker knows Batman so well — he can talk about him with hundreds of himself.
- The various Batmen, however, don't get along nearly as well.
- This redefines Mind Screw.
- Thank You.
- Well since Superboy Prime is supposedly from our universe it is possible.
- He identifies himself closely with a particular animal.
- He spends significant amounts of time in a costume resembling a humanoid version of said animal.
- He no longer identifies himself with his original identity as Bruce Wayne, believing that he is more "himself" when in costume.
- Of his adversaries, he is closest to Catwoman.
- He is always more interested in her when she is in costume.
- Having seen how good her costume looks in Batman: The Animated Series, who can blame him?
- Of all his enemies, he is most likely to team up with Catwoman and The Penguin.
- This theory is supported by Justice League Unlimited. When Batman is captured by Lex Luthor, he decides he needs to create dissent among the villains and gain allies. He ends up making out with Cheetah (an anthropomorphic feline) and striking a deal with Ultra-Humanite (an albino gorilla).
- The one person who goes out of his way to make Batman miserable more often than anyone else is The Joker. And come on, let's face it, the Joker pretty much does everything he does just for shits and giggles. He's basically defined by his own sick brand of schadenfreude, deriving his pleasure from the misery of others. The Joker, in short, is a troll, and trolls often consider furries to be particularly favored targets.
- Grant Morrison has said that the way he sees it, Batman would have gone insane if he hadn't dressed up like a bat and run off in a cape to fight crime, so it's probably something like that.
- He's more likely a worshiper than an avatar - one who has made a contract of immortality with him for as long as he keeps spreading chaos around him.
- The Joker is Nyarlathotep? Congratulations: you have just come up with a better identity for him than any comic book writer yet has. Although a bit of backstory would be required explaining how this "mask's" powers became diminished. Does anyone care to take a shot?
- Easy- Nyarlathotep-as-Joker doesn't have any overt powers because he doesn't want to use powers; Nyarlathotep uses the Joker the same way we use Grand Theft Auto to relax. There is no higher plot; Nyarlathotep just wants to kick back, relax, and cause some chaos and misery on a large scale. The only power he uses is immortality, which is why the Joker has his immunity.
- Frankly, the Joker as a Humanoid Abomination explains quite a bit. His very blood is poisonous - a tiny bit once left Damian Wayne paralyzed. His ability to survive damage up to and including being shot in the head. His knack for hiding bombs absolutely anywhere, despite the difficulty blending in you'd expect with green hair and chalk-white skin. His inhumanly tall teeth. His strength, which exceeds what he should be capable of with his skinny frame. The inability of the world's greatest detective to find anything about his past. It would certainly explain what happened to Dr. Harleen Quinzel.
- Easy- Nyarlathotep-as-Joker doesn't have any overt powers because he doesn't want to use powers; Nyarlathotep uses the Joker the same way we use Grand Theft Auto to relax. There is no higher plot; Nyarlathotep just wants to kick back, relax, and cause some chaos and misery on a large scale. The only power he uses is immortality, which is why the Joker has his immunity.
- If he isn't an avatar or Nyarlathotep, then he's a friend. I say this because I can imagine the Joker being crazy and hilarious enough to be someone Nyarathotep would see as an equal, instead of a tool.
- It's not clear whether Nyarlathotep could have children, but if so, the Joker could be offspring instead of an avatar.
- He did study Buddhism during his years abroad, but he seems to have abandoned it.
As Superman is clearly a thinly-veiled Jesus, this would seem to answer the perpetual question of who would beat whom in a fistfight: Buddha just barely beats Jesus, with prep time.
- Unless "Jesus" stops fucking around and lasers Buddha from orbit.
- This is why Jesus is always losing: he's always trying to reason with people, while the other guy is mowing him down with a tank, shorting out the electrical grid to fry his brain with electricity, and shooting synthesized kryptonite arrowheads at him.
- That's not clear at all. Superman has had many interpretations, Jesus is just the one that lazy grad students slap into their thesis because Jesus is conveniently symbolic and doesn't require much thought; Hero = Saves people = Jesus. You could just as easily say Batman is Jesus, he was even crucified once.
- Clearly Jesus (on whom be peace) would win because Buddha was a pacifist. He wouldn't have fought back at all. It would be like matching someone against a guy who has voluntarily tied himself up for the fight.
- One: both Jesus and the Buddha were huge pacifists; that was one of their core messages. Two: it is a little more well thought out than "Hero = Saves people = Jesus," it's more "Father sends his only son to Earth to save people, the son grows up with two completely ordinary hard-working people, the son becomes hero/savior when older." While I agree that is kinda stupid how often the two are compared to each other, it is understandable how they can be compared to each other.
- It is, however, important to note that Jesus was cool with necessary violence, as evidenced by the tearing apart of the temple.
- Jesus may have been a declared pacifist, but he obviously had a temper that would get the better of him on occasion.
- Siddhartha was not a pacifist at the point in his arc that Batman is at, as he had not yet discovered enlightenment. He was just a grouchy rich guy sitting under a tree and refusing to eat.
- It is definitely more than that, as noted above. Also, the respective temptations are similar (superhuman powers that could be turned to self-gain) as well as their response to those temptations (renewed commitment to self-sacrifice and an overdeveloped sense of responsibility).
- Both Batman and Superman are maintained only partway along their respective myth arc: Batman is perpetually at the point just before Siddhartha's self-destructive tendencies nearly kill him, and Superman is perpetually just back from the desert after being tempted to turn his powers to self-gain. No matter what happens to these two characters they will always return to these points in their arcs. Any similarities between the heroes and their religious counterparts after these points are purely speculative.
- Clearly Jesus (on whom be peace) would win because Buddha was a pacifist. He wouldn't have fought back at all. It would be like matching someone against a guy who has voluntarily tied himself up for the fight.
- Interesting.
- If true.
- But why does some of it predate that event? For instance, before his parents were shot he and Tommy Elliott witnessed Green Lantern (Alan Scott) fighting The Icicle.
- ...Because dreams don't always unfold in a chronological order, nor are they always internally consistent!
- In the DCU, Nyarlathotep is named "Parallax".
- I, Electrical Lass, was going to say that Nyarlathotep is named "Joker" in the DCU, but the below WMG beat me to it
- Martha Wayne is descended from the line of the Carters (such as John Carter of Mars, Randolph Carter, etc).
- Killer Croc isn't mutated; he has a harsh version of the Innsmouth Look.
- No, Gotham is Arkham, which later grew to encompass other smaller towns; the resulting city got named Gotham.
- It probably started as Innsmouth, seeing how the heart of Gotham is near the ocean. It later spread out to near the inland Arkham, which is why Arkham Asylum is always depicted as being on the outskirts of Gotham, away from the sea.
- Thomas Wayne got his MD at Miskatonic University.
- So what state would that make Gotham in? Rhode Island?
- Northeastern Massachusetts - Specifically Essex County.
... Think about it. All the villains are based on his fellow inmates (it explains their own issues). Superman is the kindly idealistic male nurse father figure, while Wonder Woman is the motherly psychiatrist. The Flash is the resident chemist, and Green Lanterns are the guards. It started so optimistically because he was sent there as a child, but he is getting older. The crisis was him hitting puberty...
- Ironically, Ambush Bug is real.
- Wasn't there a comic once that hinted at this?
- Yes, the Legends of the Dark Knight story "Masks."
- No less than three of his villains are psychiatrists (Scarecrow, Harley Quinn, and Hugo Strange). The tonal differences in different periods of Batman's history are due to different medication regimes.
- Wasn't there a comic once that hinted at this?
- He only called himself Batman because he's scared of bats. It doesn't matter what other people think of them.Bees. My god.
- This is probably due to his insanity, although Arkham: A Serious House On Serious Earth has a psychologist speculating that Joker is super sane.
- This may, thus, be the driving point behind many of his apparently senseless actions. His ability to change personalities allows him to "refresh" his character at will; his utter lack of empathy stems from the belief that his victims aren't "real" people anyway, and all of his lines about acting on a stage for a crowd become much more literal.
- The Joker is super sane. Everything Superman does is super-whatever. Superman is sane. Therefore, he is super sane. Therefore, Superman is the Joker. He's ... bipolar?
- One problem with that: Superman is optimistic. This invalidates the statement he's sane. So he can't be the Joker, as he is insane.
- This theory makes the Injustice world very confusing... and metaphorical.
- This one's been played with often in the comics. He has referenced a Spider-Man/Batman crossover that's out of continuity before, much to the puzzlement of the other characters. He once even addressed the artist of the story. He also displays a certain amount of Medium Awareness, handling his own word balloons or turning the page for the reader.
- In the miniseries Joker's Asylum, he's a Cryptkeeper style host.
- Maybe this is why the Joker doesn't want Batman dead. If he kills Batman, then the Joker and everyone else dies with him because there's no longer any reason for him to exist.
- Joker knows he is a fictional work, which is why he does what he does. Think of how much fun it is in games like Grand Theft Auto to throw caution to the wind and let loose and cause chaos for chaos's sake. Joke's nature is his powers (Super-Sanity as mentioned above); he can get away with what he does because he knows no one is truly killed since they were never alive in the first place and are fictional characters that the audience hates. This is why he "fudged" the location of Rachel and Harvey in the movie: He knew that the fans felt that Rachel was The Scrappy and that they would much rather see Two-Face. Since this was a movie, she was in no real danger, just like his assistant for his magic trick. He would only seem dangerous to the "NPCs" of his universe - the police, Batman, Alfred, and Harvey Dent. But to him, he's aware he's Oscar gold. His superpower is to be the ultimate crowd-pleaser!
- Wait... The Joker = Xelloss?
- This brings up the question of what he'd do when faced with Deadpool or Animal Man.
- Joker not only has no fourth wall but is also infused with godly powers. Oh, and I, err, he, goes on TV Tropes.
- The Joker is unsure of whether or not he will disappear based on the fact that he's a batman villain so with batman dies then he has no nemesis but he is also aware of the dc universe's continuity and this is where it gets complicated he knows that if he kills batman he will continue to exist but he also knows that batman is a fan favorite and one of the dc universe's most beloved heroes, so with he kills him then the fans will despise him and want him dead so he may be killed "in-universe" but he isn't sure of that because the creators may want to use it to put the jokers evil and hatred level up to eleven and/or let make him Take a Level in Badass or maybe just to prove that heroes aren't always brought back, or to have a lesson in consequences, or infinite other possibility's this is what drove him mad
- Sure, the Joker dies in both books, but he's faked his own death before.
- Bruce wears the exoskeleton in KC because he was beaten up so badly by Superman in DKR.
- That was also part of the reason Superman went into retirement, allowing the new, darker heroes to rise up.
- Alternately, he had already retired. The "Superman" of Dark Knight is the Martian Manhunter, which would explain why he was hurt by a nuclear bomb (which we've seen the real Superman withstand before), why his appearance changed when the nuke hurt him, and why the Kingdom-era Manhunter is so shattered. The kryptonite arrow also contained an incendiary compound— that's Bats being prepared again.
- Unfortunately, your theory has a flaw: The Martian Manhunter is weak to fire. If what you say is true, and that Superman was the Martian Manhunter, then he would have died in the explosion, as the heat would have been close enough.
- Alternately, he had already retired. The "Superman" of Dark Knight is the Martian Manhunter, which would explain why he was hurt by a nuclear bomb (which we've seen the real Superman withstand before), why his appearance changed when the nuke hurt him, and why the Kingdom-era Manhunter is so shattered. The kryptonite arrow also contained an incendiary compound— that's Bats being prepared again.
- When Alfred "destroys" Wayne Manor in DKR, all we see is the roof being blown off — the main building could have remained standing, intact enough to be vandalized later.
- Linkara, did you write this?
- This is canon (again) in the short-lived Birds of Prey (2002) TV series. But somehow, this version of Helena shows her lineage with Catwoman by having cat powers.
- Not that far-fetched since Wildcat's illegitimate son was found to be a werepanther.
If you think about it, it makes sense. The Hayeses were having trouble conceiving and apparently couldn't due to their 'mutant powers'. It's possible they adopted or somehow came to possess her (i.e.: stealing her from the people Bruce had originally arranged to raise her), deciding to raise her and have her be spared by the Gibborim. They were even more shocked to find out she had powers of her own, which they might not have expected at all if she was not their biological child.
- Dude, that's retarded. For one thing, Bruce Wayne's an idiot who's into extreme sports. Seriously, my sister, who works for the Gotham Globe, has a friend who dated him this one time and she described him as, and I quote: "Like Michelangelo's David - body chiseled perfection, head solid rock."
- For the record, I've seen Batman and Bruce Wayne together. Are you going to tell me that was Superman in disguise? Bruce Wayne is clearly not Batman. Wayne, (While an idiot) is perfectly sane. And how would you describe the mental state of somebody who goes around as a flying rodent scaring people?
- Batman is a ninja. Do you really think a scrawny billionaire like Bruce Wayne just climbed up a mountain and found the dojo of an ancient secret society of ninjas?
- Batman a ninja? What kind of weaponized hallucinogenic flowers are you smoking?
- For the record, I've seen Batman and Bruce Wayne together. Are you going to tell me that was Superman in disguise? Bruce Wayne is clearly not Batman. Wayne, (While an idiot) is perfectly sane. And how would you describe the mental state of somebody who goes around as a flying rodent scaring people?
- Batman is a robot.
- No human could do those sorts of things, and take and receive that level of punishment, Batman can't be human. Batman is a highly advanced experimental combat android able to withstand bullets, jump across buildings, and punch through walls.
- Once again, the animated series apparently supports this◊.
- Next, you'll be saying that Clark Kent is Superman! What audacity!
- Well now that you mention it, they do look suspiciously similar...
- But Superman doesn't wear glasses!
- He takes them of when he transforms!
- Nonsense. He wouldn't be able to see!
- After seeing himself in Superman he was merely inspired to be a superhero himself, which is why Daredevil can't rely on vision.
- Well now that you mention it, they do look suspiciously similar...
- You must all be being deliberately stupid - HARVEY DENT ADMITTED HE WAS BATMAN! What more do you want?!
- Harvey Dent is dead. Batman is not. Proof enough for me.
- But have you actually seen the body?
- There was supposedly a body, but it's impossible to tell if was him - half his face was burned off. Besides, I was at a party once where the Joker burst in and started threatening Dent's girlfriend, Rachel Dawes. Batman showed up and acted very concerned about her - because he's really Dent!
- Harvey Dent is dead. Batman is not. Proof enough for me.
- I heard they're doing some kind of biopic about Batman, and guess who's playing him? CHRISTIAN BALE! Isn't that, like, the perfect casting choice?
- I read the cast listing, and he plays both Batman and Bruce Wayne. Maybe the producers know something we don't?
- It's an artistic license for the movie. It's a Shout-Out to I'm Not There. Is Bob Dylan Batman?
- I read the cast listing, and he plays both Batman and Bruce Wayne. Maybe the producers know something we don't?
- You people are completely on the wrong track. The question is have you ever seen Clark Kent and Batman together? Think about it.
- I have. But Clark turned out to be JFK in disguise.
- Hey! I haven't seen Clark Kent in the same room as Ambush Bug either...
- Ambush Bug is Batman!
- Ambush Bug is the Moon Princess!
- Everyone, I have◊ proof! So would Robin be his cousin Kara in a wig?
- The Batmobile is a scrapped Wayne Enterprises military project: the Tumbler. The Tumbler was an experimental bridging vehicle abandoned by the military and only a handful of prototypes exist, and Batman somehow managed to get a hold of one. Chasing a tank down the freeway you would think the GPD would think to look through a few back issues of Jane's, given the current state of things Wayne is probably bribing the police.
- WHAT!?! The Batmobile is a former Ford concept car called the Futura, from 1957. It was spotted at George Barris' shop in L.A. shortly before the Batmobile first appeared.
- Which leads to a question: why is Bruce Wayne covering for Dent's extracurricular activities and giving him so much free crime-busting gear?
- Oh, come on. How many people work for Wayne Enterprises? Okay, now how many of those hundreds (if not thousands) of people are not drunken idiots?
- But how many of them have access to scraped military projects?
- Lucius Fox is Batman! He could have worked for Ford when the Futura was designed, he can easily reroute the prototypes and materials from Wayne Enterprises, and it can't be Harvey Dent, because Batman's been around for half a century, and Dent can't be over 40. Unless Dent is Lucius' apprentice...
- Don't be ridiculous. Bruce Wayne's not Batman - Bruce Wayne's gay. All those supermodels are just a long line of beards. But he seems to spend a lot of time with his dark-haired blue-eyed wards, not to mention Clark Kent, and he was even seen with Lex Luthor, and everybody knows the rumors about him.
- And Batman isn't? Anyone going around dressing like that is a bit off. I don't want to kill you. What would I do without you? You Complete Me. Anyone who has the transcript of Batman's interrogation of the Joker is thinking Foe Romance Subtext of the whole Joker-Batman thing.
- You're joking. Batman can't be gay, he's obviously some sort of ultra-right-wing lunatic! Why else would he go around beating criminals to a pulp?
- Clark Kent isn't gay. He's married to Lois Lane. Not that she's faithful. Hey, who could blame a gal for fooling around with a super-powered muscle-bound man in tights when her husband is so mild-mannered? And the worst of it? She uses this to get all the scoop on Superman and beat out her honest husband for a by-line! The nerve of some people.
- And Batman isn't? Anyone going around dressing like that is a bit off. I don't want to kill you. What would I do without you? You Complete Me. Anyone who has the transcript of Batman's interrogation of the Joker is thinking Foe Romance Subtext of the whole Joker-Batman thing.
- Are you kidding me? This was disproven◊ by the animated series.
- But that's obviously Clark Kent without his glasses! Bruce Wayne doesn't look like a professional linebacker. Wait... Combining this and the image of the robot Batman liked above... Clark Kent is Batman, and he uses the robot duplicate when he has to be in Metropolis and Gotham City at the same time, or prove he isn't Batman. He always wears the cowl because it has built-in corrective lenses!
- I can't BELIEVE you guys are going so far with this tourist trap thing. Helloooo? Batman's not real! Have you ever seen Batman? Hell no! All we have is the word of the news, the police, and the Council that there's ACTUALLY some kind of, I don't know, Uber-Hero running around, taking out the mafia with his amazing skills and stopping purse-snatchings on the subway, de-shitholing Gotham one alley at a time. Yeah, right! He's about as real as the Loch Ness Monster - do you think anybody would visit Lake Ness if there wasn't a "monster?" Batman has more to do with the fact that only 29% of Gotham college graduates go on to get jobs here than some super-resourceful, super-athletic guy wanting to clean up crime all of a sudden.
- NO, Batman is real! My cousin's roommate has a friend who saw him! He's really out there!
- Is a guy dressed as a bat fighting criminals with batarangs any less believable than the flying guy from Metropolis, or those guys with the magic rings who saved us from those zombies a few weeks ago, or even that arrogant entrepreneur in the gold suit who claims to be from the future, or any of those other powered fruits in the brightly colored costumes I see on the news?
- Obviously, none of those people are real, either. As someone who's been studying supernatural phenomena for years, I can tell you that there's always a rational, scientific explanation for it all.
- You're all wrong! Batman really is a girl! I mean, no self-respecting baddie would admit that he has been beaten by the girl, would he? So, this means that Bruce Wayne is not Batman, and neither is Clark Kent. Lois Lane, on the other hand...
- Yeah! You're right! I saw her back in No Man's Land. Spraying bat tags and everything.
- Batman is Peter Parker, who is Spider-Man, who is that dreamy Toby MacGuire. Unnaturally strong? Check. Can't fly? Also check. Doesn't Like Guns? Spot-on. If you cut him, does he bleed? Yep. Lastly, does he use grappling wire to get around the city? Totally, unquestionably the same guy.
- If he uses grappling wire he must be the Amazing Spider-Man, unlike Toby who is a radioactive spider with Peter Parker DNA. A human with spider DNA doesn't create a web with his own body but a spider with human DNA would have no problem doing this.
- I always thought Batman was L. The biggest detective in the world has many aliases and creepy looks... So, that would make Joker... Kira?
- The Joker can't be Kira. That Japanese actress Misa something-or-other is Kira; the news even said so and the Joker is definitely not a Japanese actress.
- What better disguise, then?
- The biggest detective in the world is Giant Boy Detective.
- The Joker can't be Kira. That Japanese actress Misa something-or-other is Kira; the news even said so and the Joker is definitely not a Japanese actress.
- I know who Batman really is. Has access to very expensive, custom-made equipment, so he's clearly got wealth. Needs some kind of support crew— but kept to a minimum, possibly even just one, to avoid endangering his Secret Identity. But that one would have to be very competent as well as fully dedicated— a Battle Butler, if you will. And Batman would certainly need a cover identity that could explain away any injuries or criminal entanglements— but he'd also need to be extremely well-trained and well-educated to do what Batman does, perhaps a great deal of travel or combat experience... Ah-HAH! It can only be one man! Batman is... Roger Smith!
- Roger Smith?
- We of the Union would like to add that Roger Smith is the Batman, and as such must be arrested and detained with extreme prejudice for daring to operate outside your... the law. We will hold his possessions until such time as he can retrieve them, particularly the giant mecha and the human-shaped robot girl he's keeping in his house. Our pinstripe-wearing, demonic-jester associate who is ''NOT'' the Joker will pick them up.
- You're all morons! Harvey Bullock is Batman! Think about it: Bullock always says he hates Batman, he's much fatter than Batman, he sounds nothing like Batman, he has a reputation for taking bribes and being a crooked cop, and he uses guns. It's the perfect disguise! Who would suspect him?
- No, Harvey Bullock is just one of Batman's disguises. The fatness is just padding, and the corruption is just a smokescreen so he can earn criminals' trust. Batman has to have an undercover identity in order to scope out criminals, and it's not like he can stick on a fake mustache and chew on a match. That would be the worst disguise ever!
- Oh, come on everyone. It's obvious that Batman is Don Draper. Think about it: He's so mysterious, I don't think I've ever heard him talk about his past. Why does he disappear so often? He just leaves the office sometimes with no explanation. He disappeared for a whole two weeks just recently. And why does he live in a regular house? As head creative director, he should make more than that. I'll tell you why all those gadgets are expensive. Even Harry Crane, head of the Television Department, guessed this once.
- Don't you mean Dan Dreiberg? Vigilantes got outlawed in one universe, so he just got Dr. M. to give him a lift to an alternate one where he could continue to fight crime. But Owlman was already a villain to the denizens of The DCU, so he needed a new theme to avoid confusion...
- Oh, whatever. You're all sheeple. It's obvious Christian Bale is Batman - he's got the voice, he clearly knows his stuff and what better cover would there be for him than actually playing Batman in the movies? None. Exactly.
- Okay, I've lost you all, here. I just want to say that it's obvious that Bruce Wayne's butler, Alfred - the one you occasionally see in pictures with Wayne - is totally Batman. I mean, you never see him, and you'd have to be a superhero to keep all of the Wayne mansion tidy! That logically means Bruce Wayne was the first Robin.
- People, people, do the math! What do we know about Batman?
- He's very, very rich—to get all those wonderful toys
- He's very narcissistic—a man with unlimited resources and ability whose only hindrance is that he believes justice must be meted out by a man dressed as a bat
- He's very sullen—all that black! Probably one of those emo teens when he was younger
- He's very, veeeeeery ugly—hence the mask
- And he can't get rid of a bomb! Look at the Adam West series; Batman is the only superhero who can go for nuns or school children and choose neither!
- Put it together! Who is very very rich, who loves himself terribly, who is very mean and ugly, and who keeps sinking money into Miss USA despite it losing money every year? He is... DONALD TRUMP!
- You're all wrong...Adam West is Batman! And Christian Bale is actually...the first Robin.
- What are you talking about? Christian Bale couldn't be Robin (of which I suspect there have been at least two or three, possibly as many as five), he's Nightwing. Some paparazzo for the Gotham Hype Machine got pictures of him recently wearing a battle suit without a mask (sometime after the whole deal with the evac ferries, with all the political stuff that was going down), and it's way too functional to be Batman. Batman can't even turn his head in that cowl! He doesn't even have a bright yellow "Batman" logo on, and Nightwing's chevron is almost invisible in the dark. I could easily see TV's Adam West as Batman, though. Playing him on TV is the perfect cover, especially since he also plays Catman, and everyone knows Catman is as much of an urban legend as Spider-Man.
- This troper thinks that you're all crazy! I'm Batman! * Is beaten up*
- And Batman's not a robot... although he might be a small alien wearing an android body. Wait, this means... ... [pause for drama]... Batman is a Dalek!
- My theory was always that Kermit the Frog was Batman, and that Bruce Wayne was Cthulhu.
- Please. How can none of you see the signs? Bruce Wayne may have the money, but is too much of a drunken idiot to do anything like being a vigilante. The person who's actually Batman would need to be vastly intelligent to fill the role of the World's Greatest Detective, fabulously wealthy to put up with the cost of equipment, and really buff and muscular so he can fulfill the physical side of it, we know he has a good relationship with Superman, and I've heard rumors he's got no powers and is only a mortal. .... None of you guys get it? Batman is actually LEX LUTHOR!
- But I've seen Batman and Lex Luthor together before, usually accompanied by Superman and The Joker.
- That was a robot duplicate, used to fool The Joker
- You're close. Batman was a cover identity for a team of operatives trained and outfitted by Luthor to keep an eye on what he viewed as a superhuman menace. But the team member who spent the majority of the time with the Justice League learned that they really were dedicated to helping humanity. He confronted Luthor and found out Lex didn't care, so he grabbed as much cash and technology as possible (and a little bit of Kryptonite just to be on the safe side) and "defected" to the JLA. Another of the other team members, who had been stationed in Gotham, fought a criminal who called himself "The Joker" and came to realize that Gotham needed a permanent protector more than Lex needed a spy. So he also went rogue and is secretly funded by GCPD Commissioner Gordon with money he got working for the mob in Chicago and outfitted by the legendary online hacker "Oracle" (who is actually a hive mind of computer geniuses who were fused together by Brainiac and left a disfigured mass of superintelligent flesh after the fact).
- But I've seen Batman and Lex Luthor together before, usually accompanied by Superman and The Joker.
- You are all fools. Batman is obviously Tony Stark. Think about it:
- He has access to lots of high-tech weapons and gadgets.
- Have you ever seen both of them at the same time?
- Who would suspect that batman is also Iron Man?
- You're all barking up the wrong tree. Batman has all these super martial artist skills, is surrounded by hot-babes that have their own super martial arts skills, is a total Jerkass, keeps meeting up with super martial arts costumed foes with daft gimmicks, Batman is Ranma Saotome. The bat suit is obviously some sort of attempt to keep the water off, obviously, it doesn't work all the time because y'know, Bat-Girl.
- You idiots. Batman is clearly Dom Cobb. How else can he pull off all those Batman Gambits if not for the fact that he can break into your head and steal and plant the ideas he wants?
- I was under the impression that his friend Arthur was Batman. I mean, he's an anti-gravity ninja, dresses in suits, and is really, really stoic. Although I guess that could make Arthur Robin. And if that's the case, I don't EVEN wanna know about that Eames dude.
- Come on. We all know Batman is REALLY Christopher Nolan. Wanna know why the gadgets in his Batman movies are so well-described? It's all really his stuff. Plus, dude's an expert in messing with people's heads without even NEEDING to break into them. He's got the skills.
- You've all got it wrong. Batman is obviously a disguise for that Matches Malone crook. Think about it- every crime he's in on gets busted! Every single one!
- Professor Hugo Strange is clearly Batman. Look at him! He has the physique, and the intellect, not to mention the fact that he's a criminal psychiatrist! Such a high-paying job no doubt allows him to finance his operations, and it explains Batman's detailed knowledge of the criminal mind!'
- Four words people. Abed. Is. Batman. Now.
- "There's a storm brewing on the horizon, but you and I will save the night. Chex Mix, pretzels, baby carrots: predictable but appetizing!"
- Everyone knows that Batman is really David Xanatos. The man has enough bank to airlift a castle over the Atlantic because of some hocus pocus gargoyles; clearly, he has the money for it and how did he make that money? With his cunning and intelligence! He makes all the gadgets himself to keep others out of the loop and funds them with his criminal empire. He's not really fighting crime; he's picking off rivals!
- Ladies and gentlemen, I am Alfred, Mr. Wayne's butler. It seems that you are suspecting Mr. Wayne's secret life, may I remind you that as a playboy, he often takes part in dangerous activities such as Polo and Snow skating. As his butler, I can ensure you that Mr. Wayne is no Batman, he is completely sane, in contrast to a Maniac who dressed up like a bat and assaulted Criminals. believe me, you have nothing to prove that there is any connection between Batman and Bruce Wayne. Oh my fucking bloody hell, little miss Helena, don't touch those suits, and young master Damian, stop littering your grandparents' rooms
- I know who Batman really is! He's obviously... Man-Bat! Batman, Man-Bat. Batman, Man-Bat. Batman, Man-Bat. THEIR NAMES ARE SO SIMILAR!
- I think Batman is Candle JaNo, but I wish I was him.
- He's a chicken, I tell ya! A giant chicken!
- I am Scarecrow. The master of fear. It is a true pleasure to tell you that I have confirmed this theory. The Batman...is Bruce Wayne. Just as I thought it would be. This. Is Gotham's savior. Not a hero in the slightest. But a man. Just a man. Devoid of hope, betrayed by his friends, crippled by fear.
- Definitely lines up with his Ambiguously Human status.
- Or, Beetlejuice could possibly be what the Joker turns into upon death. He [Beetlejuice] was dead/a spirit/etc. after all.
- No, the film White Noise is the prequel to Beetlejuice.
- Nah, I've seen them together before.
- Also, the Joker is Ryuk.
- Mayuri Kurotsuchi is the Joker in the afterlife.
- Adding to this, the Robins (except Damien, his son) are all variations in the super soldier design (and therefore Bruce's brothers).
- Bruce represented a prototypical all around type.
- Dick's "model" had more emphasis placed on agility and Leadership skills.
- Jason's "model" was an "improved" all-around type but his type was later discontinued due to its mental instability.
- Tim's "model" focused on intelligence.
- Barbara - information analyst, and dispatcher -long-range spy
- Cassandra - Kinetic understanding, the on-the-ground personal spy.
- Steph - Stealth. She's snuck up on Tim several times and nearly managed it on Batman once. Both times we knew Steph was Steph she was introduced as a midpoint spy, listening on a spy mike.
- Perhaps this (and the above) theory could apply to Batwoman and Huntress as well.
- ...Totally Spies!?
- Close. More simply, he's a god, somewhere on the lines of Loki or Coyote.
- So the Joker is Gotham's equivalent of Tokyo's Lil'Slugger? Or maybe we could call him a Stand Alone Complex...
- I think he's the eighth Endless from The Sandman
- Discord?
- I think he's the eighth Endless from The Sandman
- Both redheads (in most continuities).
- Both wear similar clothes, with bowler hats and domino masks instead of fedoras and synthetic skin. (Remember, the Question can change the color of his clothes.)
- Both use question mark-based calling cards.
- Both are obsessed with superiority, each one in a different way.
So, Edward Nigma, attempting to develop "the ultimate question/riddle", creates this other personality that's a superhero. He's so committed to the act that even his thoughts are always "in character." He probably has some devious plan; but what could it be?
- Oh, and if those two characters have already met in person, one was a robot or something.
- The Riddler was nearing sanity by the time Vic entered the scene. Hm...
- The above criteria sound rather similar to Rorshach.
- That can't be helped — the Question is similar to Rorschach...
- Wait, isn't the Question dead now? But Edward is still alive, which means Rene is secretly the Riddler. Think about it, who would suspect the lesbian police officer of being the Riddler?
- So, he takes a licking and keeps on ticking? Does that make him the Energizer Bunny?
- No, he's a Timex watch. (Chirping Crickets)I'm old.
- This is startlingly persuasive. Even if it is kind of a long commute from New York to Gotham.
- Close. He's JASON Bateman, from Arrested Development.
- Bateman Begins
- Cleaning service. Bruce never notices the charges on the household account because Alfred's the guy who originally taught Bruce how to launder money.
- He secretly calls in The Flash when Bats isn't looking.
- Now you got an image of The Flash in a French Maid outfit stuck in my head. You monster.
- Hope this helps
- Now you got an image of The Flash in a French Maid outfit stuck in my head. You monster.
- Truth in Television: The butler in a large estate is the chief servant; his job is to ensure the rest of the household staff is doing their jobs. Alfred may be Bruce's personal valet, but with regard to the estate, he's got the personnel he needs to get the job done. They don't necessarily need to be there full-time or even have access to Wayne Manor beyond the rooms they're assigned to take care of, which allows Bruce's secret identity to remain intact. Alfred is in charge of hiring/firing them and no doubt does very thorough background checks on any new maids/cooks/etc.
- Like Catwoman at the beginning of Dark Knight Rises.
- Alternately, he was a former hero who either went Too Far and became a Knight Templar or who have up attempting to do good altogether, believing that if he gave up it wouldn't make a difference. Now he's in Purgatory, and whether or not he'll make it out depends on whether or not he can keep fighting despite Gotham City showing no real improvement despite his efforts.
- If Bruce Wayne had not seen his parents shot, he would have grown up to be Lex Luthor.
- And Superman would be dead.
- Alternately, if Bruce Wayne's parents had avoided being shot altogether, he would have turned out like Tony Stark. The Superman/Batman reality-hopping arc demonstrated this: In the world where Thomas and Martha lived, Bruce is a party-all-night playboy who scores the hotties while lounging poolside with Tommy Elliot, his BFF.
- Both of these are true. If Bruce Wayne's parents were not killed, he would have become a Stark-like genius playboy philanthropist billionaire, become best friends with Lex Luthor, destroyed a dangerously powerful alien before it could decide to turn against humanity, and teamed up with his best mate Lex Luthor in a pair of power-armored suits that let them wipe out crime in Gotham and lead Gotham and Metropolis to a Golden Age of peace and prosperity for all (but especially themselves). Of course, the two cities would also be rife with vice, but that's not a bad thing...
- Expanding on the supervillain in purgatory idea - his nemesis was a superhero version of Commissioner Gordon - hence why he has to suffer and feel guilty every time "Gordon's family" suffers in Purgatory. His sidekicks are the images of heroes he fought against - again, that's why he has to go through a tremendous amount of guilt every time something happens to one of them. His Rogues Gallery in Purgatory is composed of twisted, psychotic versions of his victims in real life who are now punishing him - The Joker was the Plucky Comic Relief that came out on the wrong side of a Sadistic Choice inflicted by whatever Batman's supervillain persona was, Two-Face was the crusading district attorney that he drove insane, the villainesses are love interests of the hero he fought, Scarecrow and Riddler were nerds he tormented in high school ... you get the idea. That's why "Batman" is partially responsible for "creating" some of them.
- Alfred is Gene Hunt. Who is also a time lord.
Since this includes the worlds where he's failed or become evil, his driving guilt - which has often been labeled as overblown, all things considered - extends to all of his lives, not just the one we're familiar with.
This could be conscious or subconscious, by the way; if it's subconscious, then that explains why he's always surprised to meet his alternate selves.
- This is true, according to Whatever Happened to The Caped Crusader?? by Neil Gaiman. Every time Batman dies, he is reincarnated as Bruce Wayne to become Batman. The funeral stories were all stories of his past lives as he had lived them.
- Alternately, his real power is to adjust all nonliving matter to another timeline that splits from his own at least several hours in the past. He can't bring back the dead because his power can't handle the more drastic changes of a death being undone or changing anyone's memories, and he only has the concentration to either land in a random timeline or find a timeline exactly like his except for the contents of his utility belt.
- Part of his angst is almost certainly from seeing worlds where Batman is just a guy who put on a bat suit and proceeded to punch evil in the face. Deep down he wants to be that cheerful guy who's friends with the other superheroes instead of their silent partner, but he knows it wouldn't work in this universe, and that makes him sad.
- Wouldn't that mean that Batman's running the Church of Scientology?
- The Joker got away? Was it because the Batmobile lost a wheel?
- Does this mean 4chan is his personal army?
- Ever notice that in the last few years, trolling has gone from pissing people off with large anuses and old men having sex to trying to kill people? Yeah, that's his doing.
- Or he's trying to actually exist in our reality. He has No Fourth Wall and is trying to use his popularity to become more than just a character. Heath Ledger's dedication in portraying him was the Joker trying to become a Split Personality of the man-but it backfired and the stress killed him. It's only a matter of time before he brings himself and the rest of the Batman mythos to our world.And you thought fictional characters couldn't hurt you.
- You mean that the Joker is Michael Jackson?"Why so serious, little boy? I'm gonna put a smile on your face!"
- Michael Jokeson? And you thought the Joker was scary before!
- Jossed by Final Crisis #7.
- If Black Lantern rings act by animating the body and not the soul, it could still work...
- If so, then it's entirely possible that we could get Zombie Batman vs. Caveman Batman.
- Jossed by Blackest Night #1: Black Hand only took his skull.
- Also, and most definitively, Jossed in Blackest Night where Batman is just about the only supposedly dead hero not to be brought back as a Black Lantern with just something that looks like him being created by Nekron to induce an emotional response from the other heroes.
- If Black Lantern rings act by animating the body and not the soul, it could still work...
- Confirmed in a way - he gained his immortality by absorbing... something... from the Apokoliptian Hyper-Adapter and acted as Darkseid's instrument of revenge.
- In Silver Age comics Canon, Holmes trained Batman. What, you think the original world's greatest detective couldn't find a way to extend his lifespan?
- It's the bee juice.
- Come to think of it, one of the Sherlock Holmes stories has Sherlock investigating a man who's dabbling in the quest for an elixir of perpetual youth. Holmes could indeed have found a way to extend his lifespan.
- Which means Mr. Holmes probably met Ra's Al Ghul. Which explains the entirety of The Dark Knight Trilogy.
- Assuming genius billionaires Bruce Wayne and Tony Stark are defending each other's cities to further throw off the scent, the fact that Batman's true identity (Tony Stark) looks so much like Sherlock Holmes in addition to so many similarities in their personal lives is further evidence.
- It's possible the rogues have figured this out. It's why they don't just shoot him—they're aware that Batman is immune to more traditional methods, and are trying to exceed the limits of his abilities with death traps no human being could survive.
- Also, the newest Batmobile is a FLYING Batmobile by default! I can hear the techno-metal now.
- Also note, in the episode of Batman Beyond where Terry has to take down his suit when it gets possessed, it is in fact Nightwing's mask he takes to disguise himself.
- "Suit! Get me an epi, stat! ....Suit? SUUUUIT!"
- "Not the..." ah, never mind.
- This theory actually comes from the Batman: Black and White story Case Study by Paul Dini. A motion comic version is available here
- Harley is his latest companion; his Regenerations explain his varying appearance and inconsistent personality traits.
- There are at least two incidents that may have been regenerations. In his second-ever appearance, The Joker died by stabbing himself in the chest. Moments later it's declared he somehow survived, even after Batman himself, and everyone else involved had already declared him deceased. The only problem is, there really wasn't that much of a personality change between the First and second Joker, though the second Joker lacked some of the nigh-invincible quality of the original. In a later appearance, he gets himself executed, only to return campier and considerably less murderous.
- There was no change in personality during that first appearance because there was no regeneration- one wasn't needed. The Joker only stabbed himself in one of his hearts, and Time Lords have two.
- Grant Morrison's prose description of the Joker's personality reforming after his shooting, in Batman #663, was eerily reminiscent of the ways that various Doctor Who novelizations described regeneration.
- Joker: I just do things. I just did what I do best. I took your little plan and I turned it on itself... Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order, then everything becomes... chaos.
- I can imagine his speech already.
Joker: Joker here! Allow me to take a jab at this jackpot of jerks without any jurisdiction, for the just deserts of justice always seem to jut out in the most juvenile ways! Not to jinx myself, but I must say, this Jurassic jury lacks any type of joy and forms a joke with fewer joints than a jigsaw puzzle! Don't think of jogging away, for any jenny ass who tries and skips my wonderfully jovial joyride through town will get a thousand jolts! Jim! Start the juicers, we've got some lives to jeopardize! Wahahahahahahaha!- He is not an anarchist, not even the Joker in TDK is an anarchist. His philosophy is closer to nihilism than anything else. V wasn't the Hollywood Variety of anarchist like the TDK Joker was.
- Don't forget, the Joker didn't have a real name in The Dark Knight. One could even say that he was...Anonymous.
- Whatever Happened to The Caped Crusader? confirms this... happening to one version of Batman.
- In the old Batman TV series, Alfred always seemed to know exactly the device Batman could use to save the day or himself when stuck in a situation with no obvious way out. The Joker has also admitted he doesn't really want to kill the bat as Batman completes him.
- Bruce Wayne: Then it will happen this way: you make the kill, but your pain doesn't die with Harvey, it grows. So you run out into the night to find another face, and another, and another, until one terrible morning you wake up and realize that revenge has become your whole life. And you won't know why.Dick Grayson: You can't understand. Your family wasn't killed by a maniac.Bruce: Yes, they were. We're the same.
If he ever gets brought back it'll create a time paradox-based Crisis Crossover.
"Robin acts healthier than even the most unmolested teens. What gives? Something way weirder than a rentboy gig is going on here. Let's examine the facts:
- Batman is forever marred by what happened to his parents
- Robin fulfills some need of Batman's
- There's no way Batman has time to be Bruce Wayne, fight crime as Batman, and violate an orphan
- Batman is a master of disguise and misdirection
- It took me a while to realize the neurosis to which you referred was the "dressing up as a bat-man and fighting criminals" and not some sort of Parental Absence issue.
- Naturally, I got squicked after reading this wmg, considering Batman and Robin's reputation.
- I support this. Insanity runs in that family.
My guess is that the baby's going to show up in Gotham in about eighteen years to mess with her half-brother's "research" either as a violent borderline psychotic anti-heroine or as a very nasty villainess. Either way, there will be borderline creepy Sibling Rivalry from Hell.
- Alternatively, she might come to Gotham simply seeking revenge on her half-brother for almost killing her, and plan to give him A Taste Of His Own Medicine, via either a gun or his own fear toxin.
- He has a well-documented series of obsessions bordering on outright mania.
- He dresses in a silly outfit.
- His personality changed radically over the years multiple times.
- He's always prepared for everything. Most people just attribute it to his intelligence, but given his success rate, it seems to be far more likely that he is capable of outright precognition.
- He can deliberately infect other people with his madness. He has chosen multiple people over the years to do this to, and thus created the Bat Family.
- And for the most convincing argument: He dresses in a silly outfit.
- There was an Elseworld comic that showed a Batman/Captain America crossover set in WWII. In the epilogue, Captain America is thawed 20 years later by Dick Grayson (Who took up the Batman mantle when Bruce Wayne retired) and Bruce Wayne Jr., a Robin with red hair. Who's the mother? Well, earlier in the comic, Wayne is seen dancing and shopping with a pretty redhead. Maybe she was more than just a millionaire playboy's fling.
- Also, they're in search of Joker Jr. when they find Captain America. Does Harley perhaps exist in this universe?
- Think of all the blatantly impossible stuff he does. The guy has to have at least Captain America-level body alteration, plus a handful of random things like "the ability to know where guns are."
- No, Joker's daughter is Tsukuyomi from Negima! Magister Negi Magi.
- Then Superman would be the primary agent of Order, right? Or would that be Dick Grayson?
Obviously, for this to work, you have to disregard Jeph Loeb's characterization - Hush Scarecrow is obviously bat guano insane, what with the nursery rhyme quoting and then switching to normal speech when Batman rips his mask off heavily implying dissociative identity disorder, and of course the A God Am I thing in Knightfall too. But most characterizations really aren't all that crazy - very obsessive and sinister, but not really crazy. In the Diniverse, it's worth noting that the only time we see Crane in a completely off-the-rocker rant, he's in Arkham Asylum with tons of patients and at least one doctor as witnesses - and stops himself to acknowledge Harley. And in Scarecrow: Year One, when he is about to kill the guy who got him fired, the speech bubbles beg you to picture either a stone-cold killer or a Large Ham of Gary Oldman proportions - the fact the illustration shows him standing calmly suggests the former.
- Why on earth would anyone want to go to Arkham instead of a regular prison?!
- Because various curses and such make it easier for the inmates to make the staff insane rather than the other way 'round, meaning, apart from anything else, it's really easy to break out of.
- Plus, even the scariest stuff they can write about Arkham (A Serious House On Serious Earth) can't quite compare to the Prison Rape scenes in Oz. Do we really think Blackgate is any better?
- Because various curses and such make it easier for the inmates to make the staff insane rather than the other way 'round, meaning, apart from anything else, it's really easy to break out of.
- And would they be called Sidekix?
- Not the robot theory again...
- Well, he could be.
- then how do you explain Damian?
- Well, he could be.
- Wait, didn't the Joker kill him, in a way?Oh yeah..Ow!My head!
When the Waynes were killed, Alfred's long-simmering resentment over being forced into early retirement and his perceived steady decline of law and order congealed into a plan for revenge. Instead of encouraging Bruce Wayne to engage in the process of healing, Alfred nurtured the boy's rage and fear. Immediately, he began teaching Bruce subterfuge, self-defense, thievery, and other spycraft. At this point, Alfred was still telling himself that what he was doing was in Bruce's best interest. Disagreements over this aspect of Bruce's education are the reason Leslie Thompkins's relationship with Alfred never flourished.
During Bruce's teen years, they began traveling the world, meeting up with Alfred's old spy contacts who each trained young Bruce in their areas of specialty. Even as he was honing Bruce's mental and physical skills, Alfred kept Bruce in a stunted emotional state. He kept the boy isolated and encouraged the eight-year-old's instinct for confronting complex problems: hit it until it goes away. He taught Bruce that the outside world is a chaotic, violent, and unpredictable place and that only Bruce could restore order and justice.
Once they returned to Gotham, Alfred took advantage of Bruce's childlike imagination and theatrical impulse, and thus they created Batman, a superhero of Bruce's own imagination with the power, bravery, and will to keep at bay the faceless, nameless shadows that killed his parents.
When Bruce took on young Dick Grayson, Alfred got an audience's view of the abuse he had put the young Bruce through and realized too late that he had started a pattern that would perpetuate itself until it imploded. He stepped back from his commitment to Bruce's training and found himself in the position of discouraging his former methods and attempting to steer Dick through a healthier path to adulthood. As Dick matured but Bruce remained the same, Dick began to see how childish Batman's game was and distanced himself from it. Bruce perceived this, naturally, as a lack of commitment on Dick's part and further proof that the world is unreliable and naturally corrupting.
Finally having seen the error of his ways, Alfred remains Bruce's attache out of a sense of self-imposed penance and responsibility for what he has wrought. He now spends his energy desperately trying to walk Bruce back from the very precipice Alfred placed him on in the first place, as well as hopefully defuse the very time bomb he created: a highly trained, highly intelligent, paranoid, top-secret vigilante with the emotional development, moral compass, and self-awareness of a pre-teen
- And that means all his children, adopted or otherwise, are the Robins! His first adopted ward, Dick Grayson was obviously the first Robin, and when Dick grew up and moved out, that Robin just disappeared. And the hero Nightwing arrived in Bludhaven around the same time Grayson did! Later when Wayne adopted that street kid Jason Todd, a new Robin appeared. But notice that once Jason tragically died in a "freak accident," Robin was gone and Batman worked without one for quite some time. Later on, a new Robin showed up, but Bruce Wayne hadn't adopted any new kid. But later, he adopted Tim Drake, who was about the same age as the new Robin and whose father had been killed by a supervillain. There must be hundreds of children who are orphaned due to super-villainy, so why did Wayne choose Grayson? Because Grayson was already Robin, obviously! The fourth Robin, the female one, is a mystery, however... Recently, it seems that Bruce Wayne has found his biological son Damien Wayne, who seems very similar to the newest Robin running around.
- But there is apparently a new Batman, as the original was said to have been killed by Darkseid, yet Bruce Wayne is confirmed still alive, but very busy in other parts of the world. Perhaps this is a coverup...
- Bruce Wayne is Batman? Holy Secret Identities! And I never even saw that coming!
- You guys are nuts. Next, you'll be saying that Ryusei Sakuta is Meteor. Or that Spider-Man is really Peter Parker who revealed his identity during Civil War then his Aunt May got shot with no one able to save her so he made a Deal with the Devil and traded his marriage to the most beautiful woman he'd ever get to save a woman who probably would have died a few years or so later and take back the identity reveal... why does this sound so familiar
- This seems likely, especially since the Insider suit was introduced shortly after DC started publishing a Batman Beyond comic. It's even possible that he will keep using the enhanced suit (modified to fit the Bat motif) immediately after he takes back the mantle of Batman. Or that he will remain the Insider for some time to come, letting Dick Grayson spend more time as Batman.
- How else could he find the time to do everything from taking care of a 50-room mansion to running the high-tech Batcave without anyone's help?
- Because he's the Goddamned Butler to the Goddamned Batman. That's how.
- When no one was looking Alfred cleaned 50 rooms. That's as many as 5 tens. And that's awesome
Why did Bruce scapegoat the Joker? Because, according to the twisted logic by which his scarred mind operated, a man who looked like a clown had to have been responsible.
In the movie Bruce harbored a deep-seated prejudice against clowns and was not even consciously aware of it (or was, but was too ashamed to admit it). His parents died for literally no reason, and so Bruce recoiled from all suggestions of absurdity and chaos, however innocent-seeming. Attempting to make sense of a confounding and cruel world, Bruce became a strict Cartesian rationalist who did not accept (and in fact intensely hated) anything that could not be explained by any sort of rigorous philosophy. That is why he disguised himself as an animal - a creature governed by instinct and subject to natural law (and also why he was so drawn to Catwoman in the sequel) and why he relied so much on the scientific method when it came to crimefighting.
And so he couldn't stand the sight of the Joker. Clowns are inherently unreal: they are pure artifice, literally, paintings come to life. They have no place in the natural world; they have no right to exist. Bruce was filled with fear and loathing of all clown-like creatures long before the Joker appeared on the scene: note his reaction of what is arguably disgust when several men appear to him on the street disguised as mimes, and this before he knows they're working for the Joker or is even yet aware of the Joker's existence. Then, when he saw the Joker's permanent smile, he naturally connected it to the smile on the face of the mugger who shot his parents. Only a clown-like creature - a figure thoroughly illogical and nihilistic - could have caused such a senseless tragedy.
Batman remained in this psychotic state throughout the first two movies. He was not a hero at all, but a murderous paranoid - one step above a Serial Killer, really - who was prepared to unthinkingly slaughter anyone who was associated with clowns. (Note the Disproportionate Retribution he visits upon the members of Penguin's Red Triangle Circus Gang.) It took the Penguin's tragic demise for him to once again see the humanity in children's entertainers, and so in Batman Forever he can once again attend the circus - and take Dick Grayson in as his ward - without revulsion.
Carl Grissom ordered Jack to kill Thomas Wayne because they were both running for city council. Jack brought along Chill to make it look like a random mugging. But Chill was surprised that Jack also killed Martha, which wasn't part of the plan. Chill heard footsteps or police sirens, so he told Jack they should leave.
(This is inspired by an early script where it was Rubert Thorne who hired Chill to kill Bruce's parents.)
- Pre-Granny: Someone killed themselves. I believe it was her mother and either her father or grandfather.
- Great-Granny Keeny: Tortured and punished her great-grandson (more on him later) using chemically trained birds. She punished him for such things as reading Ulysses and being born.
- Marion Keeny: Suggested that her grandson (haven't reached him yet) be buried alive upon his birth.
- Karen Keeny: Seemed to have escaped insanity, but does have horrible taste in men and did abandon her son. Speaking of her son...
- Jonathan "Scarecrow" Crane: Systematically killed off his family (one could argue they had it coming); killed the people who bullied him; fired a gun off in his class when he was a professor at Gotham U.; killed the people who fired him for this; created fear toxin and uses people as guinea pigs; admitted into Arkham regularly...I think you get the idea. Crane seemed to have been hit by the crazy stick particularly hard.
- Now to find out how crazy is carried. Since most of the Keenys are female, crazy is either carried through mitochondrial DNA or the X-chromosome.
- Lord help us if the above WMG for his half-sister turns out to be true...
Batman doesn't deny to Alfred that Steph is just being used to draw back Tim anyway, and he didn't change the Bat PC passwords at any point, giving this theory credence. More to the point, he came up with this, or just did an Indy Ploy, in about 2 seconds, after Steph demanded to become Robin.
Identity Crisis (2004) was simultaneous with War Games, so even should Steph not be fired or maimed, then eventually the person killing Super Hero dependents would likely get around to the Drakes, as apparently Robin who hadn't even told Superboy his identity yet to my knowledge had his real name and familial details known to every b-list JLer, and thus to the killer. The shock of losing his dad would, as usual, make Tim return to the fray to get revenge, and wouldn't give up.
And should somehow none of those work, the tedium of everyday life and the lure of his Teen Titan friends, not to mention rebellion against his father that comes in adolescence, would likely have him at least rejoin the Titans. Which would mean that Batman's Robin would have weekends free, and the TT Robin would be fresh from the school week, not being a Triple Shifter, as well as there being 2 well-trained Robins, increasing the overall amount of Robins for little cost.
To summate briefly, Batman is a friggin' genius.
- Wonder Woman should come after him with an axe. If this theory is true, he used Steph. He was willing to sacrifice and manipulate her into starting a gang war, and then later he would be okay with people dying just to force Tim to come back. This WMG is saying that Batman was okay with a plan that included people's possible deaths just to get something that he wanted. Wonder Woman's the icon of feminism in the DCU.
- Perhaps, like Batman in "Whatever Happened to the Caped Crusader", there will always be someone who becomes the Joker. Whenever reality is altered in a Retcon, someone else became the Joker. Whenever the Joker dies and is not ret-conned, the essence of the character is transferred to another. The Joker's Multiple-Choice Past comes from the same character retaining memories of all the people who have been the Joker. Even in a timeline where Bruce is dead, the Joker still existed, albeit with as Martha Wayne due to the timeline being screwed up.
- Writer Steve Englehart (who did, among other things, the original "Laughing Fish" story) revealed on a podcast that he in fact subscribes to a more mundane version of this theory: the Joker dies every so often, and some henchman of his picks up the mantle.
The clues to this are as follows:
- Gotham city while still a crime city, has cars reminiscent of the 1930s dominating the streets. Yet the music being listened to is either classical or 80s pop like Prince. This among the state-of-the-art gadgets and armor Batman uses would suggest a dystopian future.
- This Batman is more than willing to kill criminals much like Damien started out before he became Robin.
- Lastly since the Joker died permanently he wasn't the real Joker since Joker Immunity didn't apply to him.
More specifically, the Element of Chaos. When Batman took up his mantle as a symbol of Order and Justice in Gotham, the universe needed to balance him out. And so it was that The Joker sprung from the pits of Gotham fully formed and ready for destruction. And because he is not a true living being, he can't die.
- Ras adopts young Bruce into the League of Shadows, gives him training, befriends him, and then seemingly betrays him; knowing this is going to cause the rather volatile proto-Batman to reject the League's mission. Violently. Then he fakes his death and comes back to do a kind of reverse Obi-Wan pep talk in the third film, knowing that THAT would give him a reason to get out of the Pit.
The Joker has been hinted/outright stated to be able to see past the fourth wall. He is aware he is in a comic book. If he is aware of this, he might also know that the only reason his universe exists is that people are entertained by it. This realization drove him to desperate measures. He figured out that the only way to keep the universe going and not let The End of the World as We Know It happen is to keep the readers entertained.
He decided to do this by becoming the ultimate entertainer. He dresses like a clown, and in order to keep his entertainer image 24/7, he purposefully touches his face up with the stuff that transformed him in the first place whenever new skin or hair grows in in his natural coloring. At first, he started with simply killing and robbing, the kind of villain people typically read about when he was created. But as time went on, he has had to constantly change his persona to keep the readers invested. Over the years he has had to resort to more horrific and bloodthirsty tactics than ever before in order to save the ever more jaded readers' thirst for crazy and gore.
He continues to do these horrible things, not because he enjoys them, but because it's the only way to keep the readers coming and to keep the DC Universe from ending for good. He keeps his ever-present smile and humor because it's what the readers want, not because it's what he actually feels or thinks. But still, he goes on.
Because the people he kills will either be brought back to life anyway or were created just so that he could kill them for the readers' entertainment.
They are necessary sacrifices to keep the entire DC Universe and all of its characters from permanently coming to an end from lack of sales. And if he must become the villain to end all villains in the eyes of everyone else to do so, then so be it.
- So this is why the Spectre didn't judge him guilty: not because he can't recognize good and evil (the Joker clearly can, but because he's actually the greatest hero on the planet). The Spectre just thought it was insanity because as powerful as he is, the idea that the entire universe is nothing but a work of fiction is just too much for him to comprehend.
We're all mad here, Dear Alice...
- That would be Lampshade Hanging on his first appearance in 1940, where he was portrayed as a serious, psychopathic killer that wasn't funny. The Joker could've gone insane in order to escape from the utter monster he was originally, possibly as a way to justify his sick actions.
- The first Robin, Dick Grayson, represents Bruce Wayne's childhood. His maturation into Nightwing is Batman deciding to visualize what he'd be like if he was a happy and well-adjusted visual-the reason why Dick's parents are DEEEAAAD is Batman in denial, and partly to play a part of the Freudian Trio (Tim Drake was the second attempt to bring back his childhood innocence, but since Bruce can't move on from movie night with mommy and daddy Tim's parents are DEEEADDD. Jason Todd was clearly thought up out of being angry at Dick/his childhood for moving on, and Damian Wayne is an outlet for his Psychopathic Manchild tendencies.
- Batman's love interests are bad girls/enemies because Bruce's priorities with relationships are screwed up.
- The reason why so many of Batman's villains are dark counterparts of themselves is that Bruce Wayne is trying to deal with his issues. Two-Face embodies his split personality disorder and feeling of victimization, Bane embodies his obsessive nature, the Scarecrow embodies his cruelty and Ra's al Ghul embodies his hero complex. The Penguin, ironically, is a manifestation of his sanity-the kind of individual Bruce strives to be, but makes a villain because he refuses to give up being Batman. The Joker Immunity is a result of Bruce remaining insane.
- Darkseid thinks Earth is where he can find the Anti-Life Equation because of Batman. Batman's own misery and despair have caused the whole of Gotham to reflect that, which led to Darkseid deducing that if it wasn't the Anti-Life Equation at work, it was part of it. This may even be how Darkseid pulled off the Final Crisis. Ironically, Batman's major Moment of Awesome wasn't a result of his Reality Warper powers: Darkseid is far worse than Batgod and was canceling out Batman's powers-it was just Batman/Bruce Wayne by himself, with a Radion gun, who slew the God of Evil.
- Batman, Nightwing, and the Joker serve as the Freudian Trio: Batman is the super-ego, serving as an ethical authority to the Robins that typically embody his ego. Nightwing is the balanced ego. The Joker is Batman's id incarnate, embodying his insanity and rash, twisted passions. Batman needs Nightwing to prevent himself from becoming too extreme, and the Joker to not be consumed by depression. The Ho Yay between the three is a result of desperately needing them and the same reason for selfcest.
- Freeze discovered a cure for his wife's condition years ago, but keeps here frozen and continues to go through the motions of "researching" it because he's secretly (and perhaps justifiably) terrified that she'd never love the man he's become in the years since the accident.
- Batman: Arkham City almost slowed it down with the Joker doing it to himself, but Arkham Knight has the curse coming back in spades. Tim killing the Joker in Batman Beyond resulting in the dystopia happening there.
Because in Scarecrow's Year One comic his father Gerald Crane mentions having two children by another woman. Now Gerald does say both of his kids are nice even though Madeline's been noted to have sociopathic traits since childhood, but this could have been before Madeline was realized to be insane. Not to mention that it would explain why, even though insanity clearly runs in the Keeny family (given that Mary, Marion, and Karen all have the same last name despite being from different generations and illegitimacy being so stigmatized that it's a plot point, I'm guessing incest had something to do with it), Scarecrow managed to get an extra dose of crazy. It runs in BOTH sides of the family.
That and its comic books. If there's a slight chance that people are related, they WILL be related. It's not as prominent in DC as it is in Marvel, where almost the entire roster of heroes and villains are related in one way or another, but still.
This means that Two-Face and Scarecrow almost became related by marriage, adding even more crazy to the whole mix. Thanksgivings would have been aaaawkwaaaaaaard...
And before I forget, Marilyn was an expert in psycho-therapy and was good enough to (temporarily) cure Two-Face back into Harvey Dent. DO we know anyone else with the last name Crane who's good with other people's brains?
It also explains how can a seemingly Badass Normal can become proficient at a dozen kinds of martial arts and learn a dozen languages and still have the time to be good at chemistry and math and escapism and extra stuff for which a non-superpowered human would need 100 years to sort of learn: it's in the programming Superman installed on him. It also explains that he also gets the time to pretend he's a playboy millionaire (which is a failed attempt at what he/it believes to be an actual human life) as well as his inability to be intimate and why we shouldn't worry that Bruce constantly adopting stray kids seems so pedo: it's just Superman's way to help and give a home to gifted children by proxy without going through all that family stuff with a workaholic jerkass like Lois Lane. Alfred and Bruce's social life are just programming in Bruce's head Philip K. Dick style
Also, it would nicely help explain how come someone can be so pathologically mistrustful and yet become pals with Superman: his programming inadvertently drives him to be nice to Supes, and the mistrust is just the guarding of the Fortress of Solitude part of the programming that went awry. It also explains why Superman never feels quite threatened by Batman: he can push a button somewhere in the Arctic and turn Bats off. Otherwise, Batman's natural ally ought to be Lex Luthor, not Superman as is the case. It also solves why Batman, the supposedly dark, badass, cool one of the two, chooses not to kill, following the program built in him by Superman.
Finally, it also justifies how Bruce Wayne and Clark Kent physically resemble each other with a square jaw and black hair and all that, what with Superman tending to build the Fortress' robots to resemble him.
- "Not the robot theory again!"
- They're connected to Darkseid somehow (aka the only other guy bad enough for Batman to shoot)
- It would explain why he has at least 5 titles, along with a utility belt full of gadgets that are just right for the situation at hand.
- This curse extended to his son Damian, who aged 10 years in the space of 5 but has over 20 years of experience in combat and other skills.
- Resurrection Man?
Giving Status Quo Is God, this Greater-Scope Villain will continue to get away with this shit until the end of DC Comics, or until some future story where Batman gets a clue.
- A less pessimistic take on this is that he feels they'd do less overall damage to society than normal criminals. The likes of the Joker may have a much higher kill count than any mob boss or Corrupt Corporate Executive could hope, but his kind of crazy isn't the kind to manipulate politics and make society worse.
- Who might Alfred and Robin be?
As soon as that happened, one certain patient in Arkham started laughing like crazy, and when he was done, he spoke "Oh, that's hilarious! And it's just the start!"
Basically, Harley Quinn was cursed by her easily offended, possessive ex to fall in love with the worst man in Arkham as revenge for caring more about her job than her love life. Joker is fully aware of it.
- Scarlet Witch
- Comic Book/Emma Frost
- Why Wanda? She and Emma are complete opposites in terms of personality.