Theories involving crossovers with non-Games-Workshop franchises should go here.
Due to size, this page has been split.
And while a lot of ado is mentioned about the Tyranids theoretically having the power of the biomass in the Galaxy, the first and second most numerous collections of Biomass (Orcs and Humans) aren't restricted to just organic matter for their firepower. In the end, the Tyranids will run out of Biomass it can access before the residents of the Galaxy run out of Bullets, Plasma, Tanks, Starships, Powered Armor, Bolters, and lasgun charges. The Tyranids will go SPLAT like bugs on a windshield against the Might of the Imperium or the Orkish WAAAGHHH! At that point, they'll become like Orks in that they're scattered about the galaxy trying to eat enough to rebuild their swarms (Just as the spores of defeated orcs try to regrow)... but they, unlike the orks, don't terraform the land around them to be more hospitable to their kind (If I remember, Orks grow all sorts of Squiggoths and Orkish plants from the same spores they grow from to ensure their survival), and they require Hive ships to eat and multiply and the time to do it in, while all Orks need to repopulate are microscopic spores and a bit of time.
- This is true as the new material say that YES the Tyranids are a major threat, and that YES the Necrons are a serious threat, and that YES the Orks are also a serious threat, but here's a few things... the tyranids are a galaxy wide plague, but the main Hive swarms are tied up with the Orks. The Necrontyr are extremely dangerous, but they've got nearly nothing to them. Only a few dozen tomb's are active, hundreds are corrupted or destroyed, and, all in all, billions of years have taken their toll upon these killer machines. The Eldar aren't doing much, since they don't have the numbers. The Dark Eldar simply cannot afford to get into a massive war, so they are simply pirates. The Tau, on the other hand, have problems of their own, and are using resources to fight of BOTH alien invasions, and a Warp Storm. The Orks, being Orks, are heading for the biggest fights they can find, so they're just fighting everywhere. At the moment, everyone is pretty much leaving the imperial empire alone, 'cept for the latest Black Crusade, who have seen the state of the galaxy, and think it's a great time to invade. The Imperium, meanwhile, is protecting it's borders, and dealing with the 13th invasion by Failbaddon.
- Black armor? Sounds like the Black Legion and Horus. Do we know Horus's hair color?
- In at least one work of official art for the Horus Heresy, he's bald, unfortunately.
- Also, before becoming the Black Legion, the Luna Wolves wore gray, not black.
How do you think they will react when the most Infamous Fallen angel Cypher saves the Emperor? It would be child's play for the Ruinous powers to twist that anger into their service. Why should Chaos settle for the crumbs of Fallen angels, when they can have the whole cake instead with a extra Primarch on top. (And what does Chaos lose by the Emperor reawakening? The Imperium is far to superstitious and fractured now for his plans on the great crusade with tons of political crap he'd have to wade through of ppl who are to used to being in power. To say nothing of the Necron and Tyranid threat approaching he'd have to focus on. )
- addendum... it does put a rather more sinister light to the Captured Luther's ranting about how the Lion will 'forgive him'.... by apparently joining him in the thrall of chaos.
It also might explain how the Ruinious powers blindsided him. As he'd be taking the glimpse of the future from his brief exposure to the Dragon, whom as a C'tan is blind to the warp. Thus any glimpses of the future would have no mention of the ruinious powers, leaving the Emperor to assume they wouldn't play a role in the future threats to humanity. Because he has no way of knowing the Dragon is blind to the warp.
Not sure how it ties into the God-Emperor is a Chaos God/Malal still exists theories, but it should still hold water.
- How does this work with Tzeentch who is the god of hope the polar opposite of fear.
- Not really. We don't fear instead of hope, we hope in the face of fear, just as we can respond to fear with senseless violence (Khorne), mindless indulgence (Slaanesh), or apathetic acceptance (Nurgle).
- Pity that fear is already a small portion of Nurgle's sphere of influence.
- Not really. We don't fear instead of hope, we hope in the face of fear, just as we can respond to fear with senseless violence (Khorne), mindless indulgence (Slaanesh), or apathetic acceptance (Nurgle).
- Also, the Space Wolves main characteristic is going in, fucking up everyone's shit, and destroying even the most convoluted and impenetrable of plans by repeatedly punching it in th throat. Because against the indiscriminate forces of change, no machinations are safe. Definitely Just As Planned.
Okay, this'll take a bit and it's actually a little less optimistic for the Eldar than the title indicates. First of all, the basic point is that Eldar right now can't win a break, even it seems in their own fluff. They're being beat up on all sides. Sure sounds like the Guard right before their codex jump... sort of. The Eldar are still missing two things that the Guard had before they got their codex, and this guess is mostly a prediction of how they might get them.
When I started in Third Edition, Eldar were the gorilla in the room for one reason: fast. They were above and beyond the army for fast mechanized forces, and they ran circles around everyone. It fit their fluff. Thing is, other races got into the gambit, and now the ultra-fast mechanized attack squad is as much or more a Space marine tactic, and the new Dark Eldar codex has taken over the mantle of ultra-quick, heavily armed vehicles. Eldar need something new to fit their fluff. Thing is Fifth Edition also introduced something else that the game hasn't seen in a while, really powerful Psykers. I've heard a number of complaints that Marine and Guard Psykers out-power anything in the older codexes, even in Eldar and Chaos that fluff-wise should perhaps have stronger ones. But notice that Imperium Psykers seem to lean heavily towards the blow stuff up end of the powers scale. Eldar Psykers could be the answer to their lack of a distinctive army style, in the form of board manipulation. Eldar Psykers could get more abilities like Eldrad's Divination, say move target allied unit within 12 up to 2d6 in a chosen direction. I'm keeping my idea to allies to avoid the complaints that Lash of Submission still produces, but it'd still open up an entire new set of exploits that would go a long way to making the Eldar into Difficultbut Awesome, which is my impression of what they have been intended to be.
The second thing the Eldar lack is positive fan identification in the form of a tie-in story, a la the Ciaphas Cain and Gaunt's Ghosts novels. I don't think Pirates of the Caribbean: Yriel Edition is a good idea, but it still remains that the one major fan-followed Eldar character is Eldrad Ulthran, and he's looking pretty dead. I think this could actually be the start of the story the Eldar need. Have a young prophet rise up, say Q'sandria the student from the codex, saying that Eldrad's presence in the Warp is in order to jumpstart the rise of Ynnead and go on a long campaign to unite the craftworlds in harvesting souls to feed the birth of the new God, and you've got the makings of a novel series that has the kind of creepy, disquieting but powerful premise that fits the Eldar fluff but can still be compelling to readers, watching the race unite under the banner of what amounts to a carefully organized mass suicide while the forces around them try to thwart their fragile, careful plans. Each of the craftworlds can join for their own reasons and bring their own methods and issues, for example Iyanden offering the wealth of it's Infinity Circuit but requiring that the God incubate for some time in the Craftworld to honor the lost, or Saim-Hann wanting to feed the God the souls of lesser races and thus clashing with the more doctrinaire Ulthwe Seers. The Picture of the Eldar moves away from The Dying Race to a more interesting and compelling patchwork of survivalists uniting under their new hope, created in the same way as their greatest foe.
Obviously, this'll take a while to do, but it'd be an interesting result of the army's current decline. I can even think of how this could potentially screw with things and make the setting worse, if Ynnead wakes up and decides that it isn't satisfied with the Eldar souls it's been fed, and maybe its corrupted with other souls in it as well. Suddenly the Deceiver isn't the only C'Tan with an Eldar God counterpart wandering around. And besides, the Eldar as a united force with renewed hope for reestablishing galactic dominance is not something the Imperium really wants to consider right now.
Sounds really stupid at first given how dark the setting is, but taking account that The Immaterium is the collective psyche of all sentinent beings in the galaxy, if a considerable amount of defectors drom decadence formed another faction made from their alliance with each other, if they changed their way of life to a more peaceful, caring and stable one and just resorted to violence when defending themmselves from other factions, the gods and daemons from The Warp would either take a severe blow in their strenghts or start transforming into more benevolent entities, specially Khorne who relies on violence and war to keep powerful, and Nurgle, who is the god of despair and decay. This shift in the balance of power would make things a lot easier for the other factions, now being able to concentrate on the Tyranids, the Necrons and the Orks. Seeing that following the Defectors ais a good idea, more and more people would migrate to Defector's territory to improve their way of life, which further weakens the Chaos.
Of course, all of this is easier said than done given how convulted and confilctive this verse is.
- Pity theres a chaos god of love, aka Slannesh. A really evil, perverse god of love but still.
- I think Nurgle, the "friendly" god of diseases, is the god of Power of Love you were talking about. Slaanesh is more like god of lust.
Have we truly missed this one? Hope. Change. Hope. Change. M'kran is obviously Barack Obama.
- Except the Mandrakes aren't so much mutants as hybrids of Eldar with some sort of shadow creature from a dimension that isn't the Warp - in fact, there's a lot of hints that there are non-Warp dimensions out there, and that is what the Decapitator is serving. The entity that Malys confronted in the Webway laughed, implying she's more of a pawn of the Laughing God now. And Urien Rakarth is only going crazier and semi-mummified by the ressurection cycle, not actually mutated.
- I've heard theories painting them as loyalist Thousand Sons, which would explain the hoarding of information. Certain higher ups do know this, but telling the rest of the chapter is just asking for trouble.
- Hoarding of information, plus their high proportion of Librarians and the fact that they combine the office of Chapter Master and Chief Librarian...
The sensei theory states that, prior to ascending the Golden Throne, the Emperor has children who inherited His psychic powers.
Since Tigurius is evidently nearly as powerful as the Emperor, it's possible he is descended from Him.
- Aren't Sensei all Blanks?
- Not as such—they're undetectable from an distance but don't cancel Warp powers near them.
- And Jesus, Buddha, and the greatest pre-Imperial statesman humanity has ever known: Theodore Roosevelt.
Having recognized that the Chaos Gods are weakened by being replaced, he will no longer disallow worship of himself. In fact, the Emperor will accept and subtly encourage his image as a deity. He will, however, face great pains with reforming the Imperium to be not so brutal and dystopian.
Primarchs will also return as their father is resurrected. Not just the loyalists, but traitors as well. Here's how it's gonna go down:
Lion el'Jonson and Roboute Guilliman will revive, mostly because they have sensed their father's soul awakening. Vulkan, Russ, Corax, and the Khan all return as well, knowing that they have critical tasks ahead of them: the Imperium must be reforged as it was during the Great Crusade.
Alpharius/Omegon, realizing that the galactic stage has changed so much that their gambit no longer matters, will return to Terra, bringing the Alpha Legion with them.
Here's where it gets interesting. A few actual traitor primarchs (Alpharius doesn't count, for reasons that are obvious if you've read Legion) will attempt to return to the side of good, and each will be given a herculean task to complete. Fulgrim's possessing daemon is destroyed by the psychic shock of the Emperor's return. His body slowly returning to its former perfection, Fulgrim fights his way out of the Eye of Terror, begging forgiveness from the Emperor. He is absolved. A few renegade chapters, now returning to the fold of the Imperium, are handed over to Fulgrim's command until the Emperor's Children can be rebuilt as a legion proper. Fulgrim's task: recruit the Eldar and Tau as allies in a war against the Chaos/Necron/Tyranid threat.
Magnus attempts to parlay with the Emperor, after all he originally supported his father during the Heresy. The Emperor, furious with Magnus's disobedience to the Council of Nikea ten thousand years earlier, sends Magnus on a Crusade into the Warp itself to outsmart and destroy the Chaos gods. Supporting him are the Black Templars and Grey Knights.
Finally, Lorgar. Now aware of his Father's presence in the warp, he is almost blinded. The constant psychic bombardment of the Emperor's light is torture, a reminder of the perfection of good, so opposed to the corrupt Chaos gods. Lorgar manages to bring some of his Astartes with him, begging the Emperor for forgiveness much like his brother Fulgrim. Again, he is forgiven. He is sent to parlay and convert the remaining traitor primarchs: Angron, Mortarion, and Perturabo.
Modern Ork oral histories describe both the Old Ones and the Snotlings as their creators. Why can't both be true? Perhaps, after creating the Orkz, a small number of Old Ones managed to survive all the crazy shit that was going on. Over time, their Ork servants gained more and more power over them, causing the surviving Old Ones to degenerate into Snotlings.
This would mean that the Old Ones were also a sentient fungus, so they evidently based the Orkz on their own physiology.
We know that chaos gods are shaped by the beliefs and actions of their followers. Since the Orkz can't agree on which of their gods is which, who is to say that the gods themselves stay the same? Most likely, Gork and Mork constantly switch between being cunningly brutal and brutally cunning, and thus giving the Orkz something to fight over.
- That, or Mr. Ward had sat down and said to himself "Screw the Rules, I Make Them!!"
Think about it. The fluff says that he's the voice of reason during Angron's temper tantrums. Yet the rules list him as an ultra-violent death machine. How can he be both? Well when he's not in combat, he simply bottles up his anger and acts in a very calm and collected manner. Then, when he gets out on the battlefield, he lets out all his repressed anger, making him even more destructive than any other World Eater.
- Actually, that would explain how he still manages to be a pretty fun guy when not collecting skulls for the skull throne.
- Kharn has appeared in novels before the World Eaters turned traitor. He was a pretty standard honorable warrior type that went insane when the legion turned traitor. His "Betrayer" status most likely comes from him sharing more in common with the loyalists, but not ever realizing that was an option before it was too late.
- Kharn is called the Betrayer because he slaughtered his own legion along with the majority of the Emperor's Children on Skalathrax because his fellows betrayed the ideals of Khorne's Faith by seeking shelter from the lethal cold instead of getting into the thick of it and killing the enemy.
- This one is actually pretty much confirmed with the audio drama Chosen of Khorne. He's quite intelligible and calm even on the verge of combat. His first person narrative sections show that he's constantly on the verge of going into a killing frenzy against everything in sight though.
The Administratum knows that once an ordinary man turns to Chaos, he won't come back. So in response, they make sure they're as easy to kill as possible.
- Nope, its explicitly stated that the reason is because human life is a cheap resource in the Imperium. The Imperial Guard wins battles through attrition. There is no point giving high quality equipment to someone that is basically being used for cannon fodder.
Who's to say that this particular Exterminatus is special?
- I remember reading somewhere that Virus Bombs, a certain type of Exterminatus involving a hyper-contagious flesh dissolving disease, aren't really used anymore because Nurgle gets power from an entire planet being infected.
- Isn't this canon already?
- It's blatantly canon; Mars became the center of technology in Sol round about the time that Earth nuked/virus-bombed itself into a setting that would make the Fallout series look bright and chipper. Of course, being just near the START of the Age of Strife, they had their own hardships to go through, and the faction that ended up surviving was the faction that, over the course of millenia, was literally worshiping science and technology. And the only reason the Emperor let them continue a twisted religion within his secular empire was because he basically needed them, and didn't have the resources to conquer and convert them without losing all their tech in the process.
- Or maybe the aliens do exist, but were all genetically engineered by humanity pre-Dark Age of Technology in order to justify having such a strong government, along with the "daemons"?
- The Tyranids, Necrons, And Dark Eldar really have no room for good.
- The Tyranids are a Hive Mind and the entire species is effectively one being.
- Arguably, the Tyranids are doing what they do out of hunger; could they really be seen as hated any more than a lion can be hated for eating a gazelle?
- Yes but lions and gazelle aren't sentient humans and the hive mind are and yet the hive mind still goes after human planets rather than just eating all of the death worlds and planets with no people on them that arguably provide more food.
- The Necrons are either two insane or so close to brainless that they have no real hope of being good.
- The Dark Eldar codex used to open with the line "This is a tale of evil incarnate" that stance has not changed over time.
- They do seem to do what they do in order to survive; perhaps given the proper alternative, they might stop their current course of action?
- Chaos has always had a lighter side, people like Magnus The Red who join chaos out of desperation or simply misguided fools who believed they could save people with the power of Chaos the problem being that Chaos corrupts entirely turning paragons of righteousnesses into bloodthirsty berserkers and the light.
- What's more horrifying is that since he is a Primarch he probably wouldn't have just been a regular Pariah, but an immensely powerful pariah. Considering that a modified human pariah (Spear) was capable of killing the emperor, imagine what a Primarch level Pariah could do. Hell the emperor probably couldn't even pick him up in person like he did when he found the rest of the Primarchs.
- I would say that Khorne would be the ultimate evil for the peaceful (or at least peace-seeking) Tau, Tzeentch the Lord of Change would be the greatest evil for the imperium (who has been worshipping a former hero for 10000 years), nurgle would be the orks, as disease is the least orky way to die, and slaneesh would be eldar, as previously stated.
- It was expressly written out in one of the previous codexes that Tzeentch, Khorne and Nurgle were all spawned by humans. This is because, unlike the Eldar and other psyker races that were created to be Psykers by the Old Ones, humanity just kind of accidentally stumbled onto it through evolution. There was no plot, no training, and while only a scantly small percentage have any sort of psychic ability, every human has a psychic signature. It was all this untrained, unknowing turbulence that most recently stirred up the Warp, and why the Chaos Gods were far more vague and dark than those that came before (namely, the C'Tan and the Eldar gods). Mankind, as a species, has always accentuated the negative, and most of our progress until very recently has been based off of "How can we avoid the bad?" rather than "How can we enhance the good?" THAT said, the reason Slaanesh was spawned from the Eldar is because, as nearly an entire race, they turned to abject hedonism to the point that the streets of their homeworlds ran with the blood of pointless sacrifices and mindless infighting while the others laughed and did drugs and sang ate and fucked and stabbed each other good-naturedly, and such strong psychic turbulence over such a short (in cosmic terms) time led to not just the birth of a new Chaos God, but a birth that ripped the physical dimension a new asshole, that we now call the Eye of Terror.
- Eh... the whole "orks could make a stick shoot bullets" is just an fan exageration of the fact orks make things work in certain ways because they think it should. A stick could NEVER shoot bullets by itself, but a badly made gun COULD be made to shoot better then it should.
- The idea is that if an ork was about a powerful enough psyker, he could unconciously use his psyker abilities to do what his orkish ones can't. Also, having learned most of what I have about 40k from this wiki or that of 40k, I was under the impression that the "stick fires bullets" was partially supported by some source or another.
- Absolutely impossible, there is no such thing as Shoota Safety Skool (Safety takes all the fun out'a da shootin!).
- Alternatively, after he destroys the 40k universe, he wishes that the Warp had never existed. Cue the real world happening. Unfortunately, due to some bug in the fabric of spacetime or something, a select few were able to remember the details of the past universe, although in a deformed way.
- It is a fate so horrific that it tears a hole into the space, time, and even the Warp itself. Thus the world is divided by zero and ends.
- Adding to this, Nurgle knows that despair and misery are the most common emotions in the galaxy. His ingenious solution? Make it so that the very things making the galaxy a living hell become enjoyment. His Nurglings love their condition because Nurgle has turned them into a platonic version of Too Kinky to Torture(Too Happy to be Depressed?) All hail Papa Nurgle, and his wondrous gifts!
- So it's like Saya no Uta?
- Imperium of Man: The vast majority who lives under the boot of an inefficient bureaucracy/dictatorship
- The Eldar: those lucky, virtuous few individuals smart enough to do some (futile) contribution to the world
- Dark Eldar: Corrupt Corporate Executives and other wealthy but depraved assholes
- Chaos and the Daemons: our technology turning against us
- That's Necrons.
In the story John Henry beats a steam powered hammering machine, saves his friends jobs, and dies in the end of exhaustion. In the Grimdark 40K universe this retelling involves John Henry unable to put his faith in the Machine God. By his hubris in fighting the glorious holy steam machine is struck down by the Machine God. This is shown In the Machine God's anger cursed mankind into performing manual labor forever for denying the Machine God's gift in the form of the Steam machine.
Or possibly John Henry wins and is blessed/cursed and turned to the first Servitor
- Makes sense. The Butcher's Nails may had already been Chaos artifacts.
- If they had not turned, they were likely to—Khornate cults often start as such warrior brotherhoods. Beyond this, though, if the Emperor could predict Angron at all(contrary to my own WMG below) he may have found himself in an impossible situation at Desh'ea. Angron's gladiator brothers fighting and dying for another's purposes would have likely struck him as little different whether it were in the arena or for his father; he would have ended up resenting the Emperor either way. Meanwhile, leaving them to their own devices after saving them not only would have put a dent in the Great Crusade by leaving the War Hounds without their Primarch, but would have almost certainly found their hunger for battle eventually turning against Imperial worlds, whether in the name of Khorne or not. Likely, taking Angron alone was the best of a set of bad options.
- One of the Lost Primarchs is the Emperor himself!
- The Chaos Gods are the Horsemen of the Apocalypse. Khorne is War(because of how Ax-Crazy he is), Tzeentch is Conquest (he's a huge Magnificent Bastard), Nurgle is Pestilence (Papa Nurgle loves all living things, including pathogens), Slaneesh is Famine (his/her worshippers are starved for more and more pleasure), and Malal is Death.
- There's only supposed to be four horsemen and Pestilence is an alternate name for Conquest.
The only thing I can see the preventing the Tau from doing this is how far they will take the "Greater Good," although considering how badly #@$^ed the rest of the universe is, taking it over may actually be for the best.
- Alternatively, the Emperor and Malcador are equally responsible and equally clever in practical terms—Malcador is essentially the Alfred to the Emperor's Batman.
- Seeing as how the Eldar have histories dating back millions of years, the Eldar must have sent themselves back through time at some point.
- Also, Dark Eldar used to be the 40k equivalent of the Corrupt Corporate Executive, exploiting lesser species and fellow Eldars for fun and profit. What would later become Dark Eldars enslaved so much creatures, spent so much, and were so greedy that they gave birth to Slaanesh and destroyed the civilization. Then, Dark Eldars have lived their lives of unthinkable depravity, just as much of the real life upper class do today.
- More like Sun Tzu is a Tzeentchian Daemon Prince.
Why Slaanesh is the exception is due to the galaxy already being screwed up when he/she came into being, plus what led up to her/his creation. The reason why they've become the Greater-Scope Villain of the galaxy is likely due to how screwed up it already way, perverting what they may have originally been. Malal likely went insane first, and due to immorality being so virulent-the most moral person is an Anti-Villain and the God Emperor is practically a Dark Messiah.Warhammer 40,000 is so horrifying that it makes Apokolips, [[Berserk Midland]] and [[1984 Oceania]] combined look like a utopia in comparison. This god is likely the sole most evil being in existence-engineering the entire universe to be a perpetual, inescapable Fate Worse than Death. It gets worse - being a card carrying God of Evil, he felt to make it so that the concept of decency, compassion and mercy are stomped out, preventing the existence of true goodness. The fact that even the most moral faction, the Tau, are still in the Well-Intentioned Extremist camp is testament to how his creation has almost killed the concept of morality.
- Isn't that always the way: G-d creates a paradise, but then his creatures mess it up and blame G-d for what they did.
This newfound entity has been around for a while and slowly grew in power as less and less belief went to the other two parties and going to it, giving it enough power to create the Obliterators, which is a response to the Adaptus Mechanicus's desires to ascend to a higher level via a perfect merge of flesh and machine. Obliterators arn't a result of some weird virus but is infact a purposeful mutation from this other "Omnissiah", which is also why they are not under the domain of the Four Chaos Gods because they've already been claimed.
- What about the Necrons, which aren't really "alive" in the normal sense, since most of them were resting in the 30,000 millenium, or the Tyranids, who are not from our galaxy and only the Scouting parties have arrived (and even Demon lords stay the fuck away from the hive fleets).
God Emperor help anyone who still is alive when what the Tyranids are running from arrive.
- On the other hand, the Emperor and Tzeentch used to be one. Or Tzeentch is the mutated Emperor himself.
This is also likely part of why he held back against Horus until the death of Ollanius Persson; by the point they met in combat, only his backup plan of apotheosis could save the Imperium, and it represented the final failure of his ideals. Ollanius reminded him not only of the courage of common humanity, but of the good that faith could represent; only this brought him back from the Despair Event Horizon.
- Specifically, C'tan from another galaxy. Who's to say they only live in ours.
- To make this worse, the 'nids may possibly be running from the Outsider, better known as the C'Tan of batshit crazy who was sealed away from the others in another galaxy because of how insane he was. Now consider what would happen if so much insanity were to enter Imperial space, and affect everything, including the Necrons. Hive Mind-controlled Tyranids would become easy pickings.