- In a standard Tabletop RPG game everyone levels at about the same rate, but Lina's player might be better at exploiting the system to explain why she is more powerful.
- Considering that in Japan there is actually a market for novels and anime based on someone's D&D session (this is how Record of Lodoss War happened, after all), I could see this being the case.
- You may be onto something: Martina once enchanted a magic dagger from "Her own stubborness", and she did manage to, erm, "summon" a lightning storm even though it took a really long time (Unless Xellos was just messing with them). Either way, this could also mean that Martina could be a low-level Reality Warper.
- Given how "imbalanced" things have gotten in the Slayers universe; it's possible this is its way of trying to restore things. The essence of the Mazoku reform around Concepts; one of which Martina is helpfully providing.
- Auntie Aqua of all entities used her crazy talisman once. This may mean "Zomelgustar" works as a wildcard: no proper spirit, dragon- or dark- Lord is specified, so any force that fits the user's current purpose may manifest, working as black, white or shamanistic magic depending on the force.
Hellmaster came up with his little plan to manipulate Lina into destroying the world with the Giga Slave. For it to work, he needed Xelloss to protect Lina from Gaav's minions. Since Hellmaster was the strongest of the Five, Greater Beast had no choice but to comply, but she was tired of Hellmaster bullying her around all the time and decided to put an end to it. She gave Xelloss secret instructions to get Hellmaster's plan to backfire. When Mazenda sealed Lina's magic, Xelloss "just happened" to come across Lina. He really did it to give Lina the Demon Brand talismans and the Claire Bible manuscript about the Ragna Blade. Since Xelloss's main mission under Greater Beast was tracking down manuscripts, its not unreasonable to assume he knew where it was hidden.
In the fight against Gaav, Lina was supposed to use the Giga Slave, as nothing else could harm a high-ranking Mazoku; Hellmaster would then attack her from behind and disrupt it. But, thanks to Xelloss, Lina knew the Ragna Blade and used that instead. Hellmaster switched over to Plan B: finish off Gaav himself, then lure Lina into casting the Giga Slave against him. Xelloss feigned injury to ensure that Hellmaster would have to use himself as the bait for Lina, and thus be on the receiving end of the Giga Slave. (Note that Hellmaster claims Xelloss isn't around because he was too severly injured, but Xelloss pops up looking just fine the second Hellmaster dies).
The Giga Slave itself was the biggest variable in the situation, which is why this is a Gambit Roulette. While Xelloss couldn't do much about that, he was standing on the sidelines to manage the situation any way he could, such as retrieving the Sword of Light. And, in the end, it worked: two of Greater Beast's biggest rivals were eliminated at no cost to her.
This theory also works for the light novels, with a few changes. Xelloss forced Lina to fight Zanaffar rather than just doing it himself so that she'd develop the Ragna Blade. Xelloss did not give Lina the Demon Brand talismans so that she would feel more comfortable attempting the Giga Slave, as Hellmaster claims in novel 8; he did it so that Hellmaster would think that Lina could control the Giga Slave and that he'd have to attack her for it to go out of control. Since the Giga Slave went out of control on its own, Hellmaster inadvertantly attacked the Lord of Nightmares, royally pissing her off and sealing his fate.
- Lord of Nightmares seems to be so powerful and indifferent she answers mortals' questions and grants wishes just because "why not?". Hellmaster hardly could annoy her much, but he was trying to use the higher being for his own purpose — and it turned out this was only his goal, not LoN's. Then again, Xelloss did not only obviously set Hellmaster up to be squashed. He's using the world as his playground, not out to destroy it. But still acted to crush Gaav, not to join or use him, even when cut off Hellmaster in that desert pocket. Was he just cautious of The Big Boss's will all this time? And if he's still so loyal to his creator, didn't Zellas played the same game?
This would also explain why she stopped following Lina; she didn't want to meet her father again... in fact, it's possible that she's continued to avoid Lina in all subsequent seasons either because she believes the risk of meeting her little sister Amelia is too great (having heard from the stories about how Amelia joining up with Lina), or because she's afraid of what Lina will do to her in revenge.
- Koan of the day: if she's an exact duplicate and the original is destroyed, does it matter?
- Yes.
- Three pounds of Flax.
- To which I answer: Twinmaker. One of those things that makes me shiver at one real-world belief that states we cease to be at death, but are "remade" later - because that ain't us.
- L-Sama is not some teleporter scientist, she is more or less almighty. She is perfectly capable of doing a Ctrl-Z on anything anyone did, including herself.
- Obligatory Thief of Time reference: Everything in the universe is constantly created and destroyed from second to second without us knowing. L-Sama could easily pull it off and Lina would still be Lina, no difference.
- Alternately, Lina could have been rebuilt by the 'Chaos that always exists within' the LoN- her soul and memories would still be there, but she wouldn't be human anymore. Not truly.
- So, she was "dissolved", then "crystallized" again and is a creation of LoN and not a regular part of the world anymore. This doesn't mean she isn't exactly the same in everything else, though. After all, The Golden Lord created worlds.
- Or the bit of L-sama that had come into the world became Lina, the real Lina, because Lina had always belonged in the sea of chaos, because she's L-sama incarnate as a mortal due to being bored. So all that happened when Giga slave went off was that she reawakened as her true self and was going back to the chaos- until Gourry talked her out of it.
- Not really long lost, but she looks more like a runaway that couldn't stand her father and her little sister talking all that justice blabbering. Taking in consideration it's Slayers, it has to be the only comical enough possibility. She doesn't appear at the same time as Amelia because she hides from that boring justice and love speech.
- Actually, the running away was supposedly prompted by witnessing her mother's death at the hands of an assassin, who Naga then killed with Razor Floss, if this troper recalls correctly. Which raises the possibility that Naga isn't exactly sane- the incident seems to be what gave her that intense phobia of blood she has.
- If nothing else, the reason for that outfit is confirmed to be related... Because that was the last remaining outfit of Naga's mother. (Which has some HILARIOUS implications for Philionel...)
- Actually, the running away was supposedly prompted by witnessing her mother's death at the hands of an assassin, who Naga then killed with Razor Floss, if this troper recalls correctly. Which raises the possibility that Naga isn't exactly sane- the incident seems to be what gave her that intense phobia of blood she has.
- Played with massively in the new Evolution-R series, where both characters (likely) appeared. Naga doesn't show up, but an amnesiac talking suit of armor calling herself "Nama" shows up and joins the group. Since Nama has 1) the same seiyu as Naga, 2) the same mannerisms 3) the same annoying personality and 4) dear GOD the same laugh (at least in Japanese), it's almost certainly her. The amnesia+suit of armor business however means that neither sister is any the wiser, even when they share an episode together.
- Tangerines have neither lungs nor vocal cords. They do not laugh. Whatever was in that box certainly did.
- It's more likely just a Mythology Gag. Naga was most likely just in the box, not a tangerine herself. Case in point.
- This theory could, of course, go both ways; while the writing above implies that Xellos represents the true identity, it is just as plausible by the same evidence that Xellos is the fake identity (the only significant counter-evidence, "his" loyalty to Zelas is rarely if ever shown to the viewer and could be faked). This would have more unusual consequences (As Xellos is shown surviving things no human could, and is explicitly acting in Hellmaster Phibrizzo's interests during NEXT, which Luna would/could only do if she was perfectly sure Lina would win), but consistently fits with the same evidence.
- Problem: Luna and Lina have documented births to documented parents, while Xellos has been alive since the War of the Monsters' Fall, proven by the fact that the surviving Gold Dragons know him on sight as the one who slaughtered them. Also, regarding the "Luna is good" part, she's not. She's an avatar of a force of good, but if she has an alignment it's Neutral Lazy.
- This Troper was convinced that Xelloss was Sylphiel's big brother, until the whole, "oh, yeah, he's a millenia-old mazoku" thing.
- The coup de grace for this particular WMG is the reasoning for why Luna turned down the role of saving the world; the prophecy explicitly stated that there would be a force that exists between light and darkness. Luna, while being more powerful, is a force for light. Likewise, Xellos is a force of darkness, and resonated with Fillia. If anything, Luna doesn't actually exist, and there is no knight for Ceipheed. We have documented proof of Xellos' mazoku powers, but there's not as much for Luna's light powers (that I've seen anyway).
- This may or may not be related to the theory Gourry is also an elf. One pre-series OAV has Lina timetraveling to meet a sword-wielding boy who shares Gourry's surname (Gabriev) who is friends with a blond elf. While this isn't particularly relevant to Gourry's character, it's noticeable that he's the only character whose ears we never see under his mop of hair.
- Word of God apparently is that Rowdy Gabriev (the Gabriev from the first Slayers movie, the one referred to in the above note) did not marry Mellyroon (the elf girl), supposedly because she wouldn't have become old enough for romance until after Rowdy died. Personally, this feels a bit of an asspull... though this troper can't help but wonder if this theory actually strikes quite close to home and the author was simply working to misdirect fans from it...
- Jus' sayin', you don't have to be married or "old enough for romance" to have babies.
- And in this case age's such an impassable wall. If you remember the end of Perfect... when Rowdy knows and a first asked farmer in vicinity knows, what's the chance that a local elf doesn't know?
- For those unaware of what the above point is making: at the end of the movie, it's revealed that the "Spring of Growth" that Rowdy used to bribe Lina into helping him is actually more of a "Spring of Aging" — anything placed in it ages much quicker. It's called a Spring of Growth because the locals use it to age fruits and vegetables artificially, making them bigger and riper much faster than nature intended. The early teens human Lina would have quickly become an old woman if she jumped in — an elf that lives for centuries, on the other hand, and which would probably not hit puberty until about 50 or so, would hardly notice being shaved of a decade or two.
- Word of God apparently is that Rowdy Gabriev (the Gabriev from the first Slayers movie, the one referred to in the above note) did not marry Mellyroon (the elf girl), supposedly because she wouldn't have become old enough for romance until after Rowdy died. Personally, this feels a bit of an asspull... though this troper can't help but wonder if this theory actually strikes quite close to home and the author was simply working to misdirect fans from it...
- In the light novels, Milgasia actually suggests that Lina might be carrying a piece of Shabrinigdo.
- Xellos knows, of course, but that is a secret.
- Nope. Lina is carrying a piece of the Lord of Nightmares inside her and has been since her first documented test of Giga Slave, or maybe since birth. Thus the event of possession at the end of NEXT and the odd resurrection of Valgaav at the end of TRY.
- The Lord of Nightmares does mention that 'My mind is my power, my power is my mind', which amounts to there being no way to separate her power from her (Rather than black magic, which is borrowing power from monsters, but the magic is not actively demonically intelligent) as Lina has some of the power of the Lord of Nightmares, as she can perform both the Ragna Blade and the Giga Slave, it follows that she possesses a portion of LoN inside her. Older sister, knight of Cefied, younger sister, Knight of Nightmares.
- That just means using Her power inherently attracts Her very personal attention.
- In the Evolution-R manga, the "ghost" of Rezo-Shabranigdu tries to possess her, but she snaps out of it when she sees glowing golden footprints, or as she later puts it "it sensed its Master's scent on me, so I was off-limits." LoN has already staked Her claim on Lina's soul, so nobody else is allowed to mess with it.
- Technically, Lina didn't survive NEXT, she was destroyed and then re-created by The Golden Lord directly. This, and no one feels like acting against the will of LoN, once the Lady cared to express it.
- Also, Lina was a servant of LoN either way, even before becoming her creature. The form in which she refused the Pact boils down to "the chaos gives meaning to my existence, I value this over guaranteed survival". But whose province the chaos as such is? Isn't it the same as pledging one's life to the Golden Lord — quite willingly and meaning this, not just formally in an incantation?..
- The Lord of Nightmares does mention that 'My mind is my power, my power is my mind', which amounts to there being no way to separate her power from her (Rather than black magic, which is borrowing power from monsters, but the magic is not actively demonically intelligent) as Lina has some of the power of the Lord of Nightmares, as she can perform both the Ragna Blade and the Giga Slave, it follows that she possesses a portion of LoN inside her. Older sister, knight of Cefied, younger sister, Knight of Nightmares.
This from someone whom on multiple occasions we've seen calmly converse with people who want to destroy the world; someone who smiles as he wipes out an entire race of beings with a single gesture; someone for whom unconventional thought is practically a watch-word. And what makes him freak out in the end?
The idea that someone might upset the balance that defines the nature of the universe - in other words, the premise that directs the plot.
This completely explains his bizarre sense of humour and why it's so in-tune with our own (as opposed to some of the other mazoku we've seen), not to mention his propensity towards issuing spoiler warnings every time he's asked a direct question. Consider that all his most annoying (to Lina) habits are those that ultimately drive the story forward; how many times throughout the series does his supposed 'secretiveness' ultimately lead the group to discover important information they might otherwise have missed? Also, can his destruction of the Ancient Dragons still be considered genocide if all he really did was write them out of an early draft?
Oh, and that document he stole and then destroyed in his first appearance? The one that he said would "only disturb" Zelgadis if he read it?
Rezo/Zel fanfic.
- Given the nature of the anime, this is actually more plausible than it might seem on the surface.
- Wait, there actually is a Rezo/Zel fanfic? Who would write something like that? I think I need to lie down...
- When you come back to your senses, watch Evolution-R, and pay close attention to the Zel flashbacks to his days as a crime-fighting Rezo devotee. Tell me there's no Ho Yay there. =)
- Well, I guess it can be seen as subtext if you want to, but still, it's far too squicky for me ^_^;
- When you come back to your senses, watch Evolution-R, and pay close attention to the Zel flashbacks to his days as a crime-fighting Rezo devotee. Tell me there's no Ho Yay there. =)
- If you subscribe to the theory that the Slayers characters represent the various aspects of Tabletop RPG players, Xellos would be a GMPC.
- Xellos is bound to act as a Game Master (in various senses) as a part of his near-symbiotic relationship with humans. Why slaughter people for Mazoku food if they milk themselves for it willingly every day? When they don't, he gives some vague hint that is taken as a challenge, feeds on ensuing frustration and bewilderment, satisfies his curiosity when humans finally find a way to reach it, and repeats later at will. And has a lot of fun in process. If he dangles achievable and valuable bait before his food source, this gives him voluntary "victims" who will follow the whole routine again and again knowingly. He's not above saving humans, if it's someone giving him well-tasting food or amusement. Of course he saved Martina: she's not only vengeful, but regularly brings hurt on herself in new and entertaining ways without any provocation.
Subscribing to the theory that Lina is carrying a fragment of the Lord of Nightmares around with her (or that L-sama is actively favouring her in someway or another) it basically means that despite being the Knight of the Ceipheid if push came to shove Luna would be totally outclassed. Ceipheid is powerful but is in no way a match for his mother which means in theory that Lina can call upon even greater power and Chaos magic is demonstrably more potent than normal magic already. As such Luna is just hoping that previous experiences will continue to leave Lina reluctant to confront her.
- So the abuse of Lina when they were young was a calculated Batman Gambit on Luna's part to ensure that, if push ever did come to shove, Lina had a built-in Achilles' heel which Luna could use to paralyze (and then overcome) her sister?
- Possibly, or she did it just to pretend to be corageous, and not a frightened sissy she might be. Because you know it would be funny.
- It might have been a subconscious reaction, instead of a calculated gambit.
- Nah. Luna, as a symbol of purity and light, just reeeeeally doesn't like being seen naked.
- Actually, in japan, nudity IS a symbol of purity.
- Alternatively, what if Lina was a piece of Shabranigdo, as suggested above? Luna, supposedly the avatar of the forces of good, would sense Ceipheed's enemy subconsciously, which is why she was so horrible to Lina.
Basically the L-sama created the Mazoku to try and destroy the world and the Shinozoku to try and preserve it, but she doesn't want either side to succeed completely. It's the dynamic created by the interaction between two equal and opposing forces that she's interested in.
To that end she created Lina whose very reason for existence is to make sure that neither side gets a permanent upper hand. What appears to be coincidence or bad luck for Lina in fact L-sama setting things in motion to keep things interesting.
- Lina definitely was the Lord of Nightmares' champion even before NEXT, though unknowingly. And was nudged in the proper direction. Remember what prompted Zelgadis to help her? A nightmare, simple and rather heavy-handed. Following the Golden Lord's own words, Lina must have attracted her personal attention at least with the first summoning of her power (attempt to cast Giga Slave).
- To this day, Lina is the only known human to survive the use of Chaos magic. Neither Mazoku or Dragon can use that power - only a human, a creature capable of both Light and Darkness, is fundamentally able to use Her power and that person is Lina Inverse.
- That... That actually makes sense! If we look at the theories about Gourry's lineage (the Elf girl) and take them at face value for a moment — at the time of the movie, Gourry didn't exist. Maybe he wasn't supposed to exist — ever! If that was the case, then Lina might not have destroyed Phibrizzo, or even stopped Rezo! The world may have been utterly destroyed! However when Lina went back in time and changed everything, Gourry came into being — but becuse he wasn't supposed to exist, he has memory troubles. Did... Did any of that actually make sense?
- No, if that was canon, this would be far more confusing than Neon Genesis Evangelion, and any ending becomes a Gainax Ending up to eleven.
It acted really cool when it killed Phibrizzo, but deep inside, it was terrified that this damned enfant terrible might finally drive the needle in.
For most of us, it never goes beyond a brief fantasy. But the Lord of Nightmares is an omnipotent embodiment of chaos itself—an entity that blurs the lines between possibility and reality. When she does this, the things, people, ideas, and universes she imagines immediately pop into being—whether she wants them to or not. Long ago, this is how the four worlds of the Slayers universe came into being. This soon gave rise to a new dilemma, however—namely, that the newly created worlds were deeply flawed in many ways. Makes sense, really; the worlds were a spur-of-the-moment, half-formed idea that came into being before L-sama could even fully articulate the concept, much less put them through beta-testing. It was, of course, well within L-sama's power to destroy her the worlds and remake them properly this time, but there was already so much life—so much potential for new, unpredictable, interesting paths for it to take...Again, in most entities, this internal conflict would have been resolved one way or the other, and that would have been that. L-sama's capacity to create entirely by accident struck again, however. From her desire to destroy her defective creation were born the Mazoku, and from her desire to preserve it and see where things went from there were born the Shinzoku. And from there the history of the Slayers universe as we know it began...
In other words, whenever something strange, inexplicable, or illogical happens in Slayers canon, L-Sama Did It. This is, in fact, the ultimate source of all conflicts in the series.
- Clearly, this means L-sama is Haruhi Suzumiya.
- Thinking about it, it really would make sense. I mean, Slayers Universe is just that kind of crazy world that Haruhi dreams of. And she and Lina have few similiarities (both does whatever they want, breaks all rules that don't suit them, and are both very powerfull and completly unpredictable). Lina is just that kind of person that could pop out from Haruhi's mind. Yeah, I know it's a runnig joke to say that some world was created by Haruhi, but here it really fist like nowhere else.
- This is actually really true in part: According to Word of God, L-Sama created the universes by accident, and would like to reabsorb them as she feels incomplete, but she can't do that on her own for some reason.
- He could be just saying she's attractive. That doesn't neccesarily mean infatuation.
- Actually, if you compare Lina in Slayers Perfect with Evolution-R, she used to be a lot bigger, though that might just be Art Evolution.
- ...in the most oblivious and loud way possible and generic superhero style. Heh. Even if she wasn't intended as this initially, the Stealth Pun was too hard to resist.
- Actually confirmed by the author in the afterword of the reprinted 4th novel volume
- Lina is choleric, Zel melancholic, Amelia is phlegmatic, and Gourry is sanguine.
- When Chaos Dragon Gaav was merged with a human soul by Aqualord Ragradia (the Water Dragon King), it caused him to turn against the other Mazoku.
- When Dark Star Dugradigdu merged with Night Dragon Volfeed, he turned into a mindless force of destruction that destroyed his own followers.
- When Huraker the Priest gained Airlord Vaalwin's power (in the manga Knight of Aqualord), she went Ax-Crazy and changed her strategy from Xanatos Speed Chess to Attack! Attack! Attack!.
- When Luke-Shabranigdu faced Lina in novel 15, he let himself be destroyed because he desired his own death above all else.
- Not to mention Xelloss' general reaction to Amelia's speeches about justice.
- Don't some humans react the same way?
- May be canon — and known to the Mazoku. Xellos explicitly states that Mazoku who are ressurrected in a non-standard fashion invariably become an enemy of the Mazoku - in this case, he was speaking about Gaav, Valgaav, and, in the immediate sense, Ghost Shabernigdu.
- Slayers is a Fantasy series and its Mazoku Lord is Ruby Eye Shabranigdu. It is the Red World. It's symbol is a magical eye.
- Lost Universe is a Science Fiction series and its Mazoku Lord is Dark Star Dugradigdu. It is the Black "World." It's symbol is a shooting star.
- The White World's Mazoku Lord is Death Fog and has the symbol of a field of screaming vapors coming out of what could be called graves. The White World is obviously Horror.
- Given the similarities in the personalities of the main characters, that world's counterpart of Lina might be Ghost Sweeper Mikami.
- Or the White World could be Ravenloft, and Death Fog is what the Dark Powers really are.
- Given the similarities in the personalities of the main characters, that world's counterpart of Lina might be Ghost Sweeper Mikami.
- The Blue World's Mazoku Lord is Chaotic Blue and has the symbol of clouds and random symbols. I... got nothing.
- Romance? I know it is not Speculative Fiction, but it is all I could think of.
- My guess is hardboiled detective fiction, or cyberpunk.
- Ah, yes. Mystery sounds good.
- Chaotic Blue? Ranma 1/2, and Tenchi Muyo, are that world and the symbol is obviously the many nexus points of chaos seeded throughout the world. Jusenkyo, Nerima, Ranma as a Beacon living on a nexus gets a double dose of chaos, as his presence and the Nerima Nexus amplify each other. Tenchi is a beacon too, Saffron was a High ranking Mazouku, Washu and Tsunami are the servants of Blue dragon, along with unnamed others. Its a world where the most insane things are normal, because its Shinzoku is a more of a chaotic good than her counterparts, and has come to an agreement with Chaotic blue, that consists of, we both like chaos, so lets agree to leave this world existing to create chaos on. They obviously take after their mother.
- Romance? I know it is not Speculative Fiction, but it is all I could think of.
But with a few thousands of years of difference, Slayers taking place before Final Fantasy VII. Magic without Materia? Check. Also, LON might actually be Minerva and Jenova is a Mazoku.
- Which means that the Northern Crater was actually caused by Lina using the Dragon (or Giga) Slave.
Namely, that of Night Dragon Volfeed. When Volfeed and Dugradigdu first merged, the result was Ide. Volfeed tried to guide Ide as much as she could, but in the end she lost out to Dugradigdu's destructive tendencies. The world was almost completely destroyed, but Volfeed was able to salvage the last remaining bits of it and allow life to begin anew. The lives lost in Ide's rampage would reincarnate in different forms and find Ide again, setting into motion the cycle of destruction and creation. Kane, Cosmo, Judau, and Asuka were all reincarnations of the same soul. Therefore, during Instrumentality, Asuka was released from the LCL even though she had been consumed by the mass produced Evas before Instrumentality occured. Volfeed just had a soft spot for Kane's soul. Because Ide stopped at Instrumentality during its latest rampage, the surviving gods were finally able to mount a resistance, heading into a different world to destroy Dugradigdu's weapons.
- Alternatively, Lord of Nightmares is the God Emperor, who has accidentally created Ceiphied and Shabranigdu as manifestations of his will to defend Mankind and the will to destroy everyone who dares to oppose mankind, and when a part of them is killed the Emperor (whose power continues to grow due the belief of the Imperium) gets back some of his will. When all fragments of Ceiphied and Shabranigdu will be killed for good, the Emperor will wake.
- Going with the variant above: Lina's mother is a Sensei, one of the natural children of the Emperor. She's so good with Chaos magic because it's her grandfather.