WMG / The Incredible Hulk

Evil-Banner's true identity

As seen in Incredible Hulk #5 (2012) we now that Banner and Hulk were separated by Dr. Doom. During the separation process Hulk placed Banner deep within his mind where he wouldn't know what was going on. During the procedure Doom essentially cut "Banner" from the Hulk's brain and placed him inside a newly cloned body. However, judging by the personality shift and the overall malicious attitude, I would argue that "Banner" is still locked inside the mind of the Hulk while the entity inside of the clone Banner body is the Devil Hulk. Whether or not Doom placed him in the body intentionally will remain to be seen. Should clone Banner ever attain a gamma transformation his true identity will be revealed.

• As an added point, this isn't the first time Banner's gone "Hulkless" and he didn't seem to be as determined to get his transformation back when he lost it that time. Why is he so determined to get it back now?
• Not to mention a Bannerless Hulk has also proven to be dangerously unstable (as seen in the Onslaught story line). Why is this Bannerless Hulk so calm?
• This has been all but confirmed at the end of issue #7. The last pages of the book show Hulk admitting he still hears Banner inside his mind, and the last panel actually shows Hulk seeing Banner's reflection in a puddle instead of his own. Though the Devil Hulk has not been mentioned.
• Though banner mentions he has full memory of dying in the gamma bomb explosion early in the arch. It seems the implication is that Evil Banner really was Banner, and that in death he was absorbed back into the Hulk. I'm willing to accept the explaination offered for the change in the behavior in story by Evil Banner and Doom; this divide was clean, perfect. Before, enough of the Hulk was still inside Banner to act as a dam for his rage while depriving the hulk of his own conscience.

Banner will pull a Face–Heel Turn and instead of Banner trying to stop from turning into the Hulk, the Hulk will be trying to stop from turning into Banner.

It seems to me that this is the feel we get from the last few pages of issue 7 what with the Banner Hulk hears in his head doing nothing but screaming, and what Doom said during their fight earlier in the book.

Hulk was actually a Venom-style symbiote that was killed/poisoned/mutated when its host was exposed to the gamma bomb.

Hulk should turn into Doctor Strange's Nuclear Option.

The Demogorge is dead and Doctor Strange is not virtually omnipotent anymore, whereas all of his most dangerous enemies still are. Humanity and he rest of the universe has nothing remotely powerful enough to protect it from the hordes of Eldritch Abominations, and Demon Lords and Archdevils that in a very "best case scenario" simply want to kill them quickly, and at worst torture them forever For the Evulz, with all of the Jerkass Gods and Cosmic Entities at best extremely unreliable and at worst casually genocidal.

Doctor Strange is Hulk's substitute father figure, and has already unwisely used the Omnicidal Maniac Zom for this purpose. The Hulk's full scale of power is literally infinite, and he has almost no control of it, risking multiversal-level destruction if he ever truly unleashed it against anything less than another infinite power, but he is also wasting it on focusing on the small earthly threats when the universe needs constant protection from the massive ones. Basically Strange currently has the problem of maturity, control, and experience without power to back it up; whereas Hulk is an infinite meld of mystical and nuclear power without either control or maturity, and it is taking a severe strain on his mind to virtually always hold back.

Gaea has also considered Hulk as one of her children like the Titans in the past, and could easily see him as the best alternative to replace the Demogorge as her most powerful protector, and could ask him to do so. Basically Hulk should allow Strange to use him as his new power source/"patron deity", and every time the Godzilla Threshold is reached the Power Limiter is turned off, and they tag-team to their utmost to permanently (as in no Joker Immunity) exterminate any of them whenever they want to claim billions more innocent victims. Hulk could keep the power limiter to Thor-level whenever he is on his own for more "down to earth" circumstances, without risking to hurt any innocents, and simultaneously get release from the pressure against massive threats that really deserve the punishment, use his actual scale of power for something useful, and directed by somebody benevolent and with the wisdom and clarity to actually know what he is doing and when to use it. It makes sense as a good solution within the overall context, even if I don't think that it will happen.

Banner is Dead All Along, and Hulk has possessed his body.

If you think about it, he has died after saving Rick Jones from his own gamma bomb and that his body is taken over by the Hulk after the exposure. The reason he is acting nice to Betty, Jennifer, Rick, and others is because he has the memories of the late Bruce Banner.

Hiro-Kala is The Beast.

Well, he is crazy with the Old Power.

Hulk is PARIAH.

The main personality is a childish one, and that he is responsible for Leader, Abomination, She Hulk, Red Hulk, A-Bomb, and Red She Hulk.

Betty has become a Death Seeker.

This is the main reason she goes in adventures as Red She Hulk.

Hulk is an avatar for Nyarlathotep.

The final villain Hulk will fight against is Betty

Because of their estranged relationship, there is a possibility that Betty will turn against him. As a result, Hulk has no choice, but to kill her. The loss and betrayal of his Morality Chain will lead to Hulk's Start of Darkness as he causes destruction around the world. A much more darker self will emerge and it will be named PARIAH. He plans on destroying Banner and the other personalities so that he will be the dominant one.

• Is the cover of Incredible Hulks 630 a coincidence?

Betty and her father's fake deaths will not last long.

Betty will become a Jerkass Woobie.

Think about it. She started the arguments, and sooner or later, she'll weep in her Red She Hulk form about it.

The only way for Bruce and Betty to get back together is... dying together.

• This assumes them getting back together is the right thing. Word of God on the subject is that Bruce/Hulk's true love is Caiera.

If the first theory is true, then Banner is in the afterlife.

Therefore, his Badass Family are just fragments of his mind:

• Betty Ross/Red She Hulk = Id
• Rick Jones/A-Bomb = Ego
• She-Hulk = Super Ego
• General Thunderbolt Ross/Red Hulk = Shadow Archetype

Hiro-Kala isn't dead.

Maybe he just faked his death so that Hulk will blame Betty for this.

Caiera is alive and well.

Someday, somehow, all of Hulk's Asshole Victims will drag him to Hell.

Brian Banner will be the leader, and Abomination will be the second in command.

• Or they'll try

There are two Betty Ross.

No, not the LMD. If you think about the recent arguments, I know the real Betty is just sweet and nice. It makes me think that "Red She Hulk" Betty is an impostor.

• So wait...we're going with clone/alternate universe equivalent/whatever over alternate character interpretation/depending on the writer/ or maybe, just maybe, years of torture and experimentation at the hands of the leader making her a tad pissed off? Granted, comics, but come on.
• Moreover, there's actually a fair amount of evidence in older Hulk stories to paint Betty as having some fairly bitchy character traits herself. Not full on Bitch in Sheep's Clothing, but not far off.
  • And Betty was never just sweet and nice, there were several times where she was out right mean to Bruce way before becoming Red She-Hulk.

Sooner or later, Red She Hulk will become an Asshole Victim by Ghost Rider.

Even if Betty's still herself as Red She Hulk and helping the titular character recently, he's still gonna get her for all that shit in Fall of the Hulks and World War Hulks, storylines.

• Has Ghost Rider had any interaction with the Hulk's since World War Hulk? Granted, it's not unheard of for him to just show up when someone needs punishing (it is kind of his job) but they rarely send him after people not in his own title without some explanation. WWH being a Crisis Crossover was enough to justify his inclusion, but him just showing up to throw a penance stare on Red seems unlikely.

One strain of gamma radiation is the cause of the Zombie Apocalypse in Fallout series.

• ...What zombie apocalypse in the Fallout series?

Two more strains of gamma radiation were used by the Zebasian Space Pirates.

Average citizens know that Hulk isn't to be afraid of.

Well, he only goes after human criminals.

• Generally, no they don't.

The key to stopping the mess is the GAMMA BOMB.

And the question is why the hell did Dr. Banner created something like that?

• Banner made it because he was a weapon's developer for the U.S. army. The problem is the sliding time scale; when he originally made it, it was during the nuclear arms race of the cold war, making perfect sense. Current timeline puts him making it sometime in the late 90s/early 2000s. If one counts the sliding time scale as meaning the fantastic four encountered the Kree and Scrull empires before Banner became the Hulk, one could posit they were researching powerful weapons to fend of alien invasions. The gamma bomb is generally referenced to one of if not the strongest bomb earth has ever produced.
• Interestingly enough, Hulk has actually called Banner out on this a couple times, giving him a What the Hell, Hero? over the fact that despite his genius intellect, on the level of Reed Richards and Doctor Doom, instead of actually helping people, he made bombs for a living. I recall a couple storylines, not in main continuity, where Banner was something of an atoner, having a fair amount of guilt from having devoted his life to such destruction, though at least one had him rationalizing that he did it because he was good at it.

Next time Brian Banner comes back, he's gonna be Hulk's Enemy Within.

Even if he has defeated his father, he's still gonna be having bad memories about him. To top it off, Brian left a remnant of himself after his defeat in Chaos War.

Tyrannus only dates Betty for a specific purpose.

He is aware of their estranged relationship, and that he plans on killing her so that Hulk wouldn't be tied down by emotions. In other words, think of what Kessler did to Trish in inFamous.

• Alternatively, he dates her because she's smokin' hot, and he knows it'll piss off the Hulk, who he hates.

Brian Banner is the Big Bad all along, not Leader.

Betty is a Villain Protagonist.

Think about it. In Incredible Hulks 612, she started a fight with Hulk, and in 626-629, she's sided with Tyrannus.

• I think it's a Jossed.

The last arc by Greg Pak will be Hulk's Split-Personality Takeover.

It is confirmed.

The more Betty becomes Red She Hulk, the more she goes into Shapeshifter Mode Lock.

And the first sign is that her hair is black instead of brown.

• Confirmed.

Betty Ross will be a decoy villain in Incredible Hulks 626-629.

• The real villain is Tyrannus, and I don't want Betty to be a villain.
• She and Hulk would team up when she realizes that Tyrannus is just using her all along.
  • Confirmed at 629.

The gamma bomb is behind everything.

Somehow, something has hypnotized Banner into making the gamma bomb, and also to sabotage it. When he becomes the Hulk, he started to hypnotized Betty, Rick, and Jen into being with him, resulting in what they've become. Why is the gamma bomb doing all this? For the Evulz.

• So...the gamma bomb mind controlled Banner into creating...itself? What?

Hulk wasn't angry when he fought Zeus.

Watching a video of the fight, Hulk never really comes off as angry. He comes off as depressed; he feels sad because of how much his family and his team have suffered. While that could easily turn to rage, it never quite gets there to the extremes it has in other recent stories. Now, I'm not exactly using this as a Worf Had the Flu as I think Hulk would have ended up losing anyway (if nothing else, Zeus would have cheated when he realized Hulk's strength was getting to be more than he could handle physically), but the main reason Hulk got thrashed by Zeus was so they could have him weakened during the savage land story with Meik.

Hulk is a cosmic being.

Banner died (or would have) when the gamma bomb went off. At that moment, a cosmic incarnation of rage and anger possessed him, saving his life and transforming him into the Hulk with the energy from the gamma explosion.

The Hulks are behind everything in Incredible Hulks 626-629.

The plot is to see if Betty has some good in her after becoming Red She Hulk, and that would explain only she and Bruce are the only Hulks in that saga.

The gamma bomb is created by DBR Corporation.

If you noticed on how does Goldman creates zombies in House of the Dead, he would have tricked Banner into working for him so that he can use his gamma research to create those missiles to nuke the world.

• The gamma bomb was created by the United States Military. Because that's kind of what the military does; research, produce, test, and eventually use weapons.
• Alternatively, Goldman has stolen the gamma bomb and intended to turn it much more deadlier as an attempt to create those zombies.
  • How would one use the Gamma Bomb to create zombies?
    • He would have Curien do that.
• Maybe he would have Banner work for him before meeting with Betty.

Hulk pulls a Face–Heel Turn in the final saga of Greg Pak.

I would figure that's what he'll do in the final saga, The Heart of the Monster. You see, if he's truly fed up with what Banner does, he will have a Split-Personality Takeover.

• The split personality take over is more or less confirmed at this point, but I'd wait before labeling the morality of it as a face heel turn. A running theme of Pak's Banner is that Banner might actually be a worse person than the Hulk is. This goes all the way back to Planet Hulk, where during the issue he shows up, Banner is shown to be an utter jerkass. All of Fall of the Hulks was basically Banner showing how much of a manipulative/magnificent bastard he was, doing morally questionable things like setting his son up to fight the Juggernaut and Daken, both of whom had a good chance of killing the kid. So I'm thinking that however it goes, it's not as clear cut as face/heel.
• Perhaps what finally drove Hulk over the edge was Betty's fate. She decided to stay being Red She-Hulk and joins with Tyrannus, giving Hulk no choice but to put her down. Deprive a monster of his love interest, and well...this is what you can expect.
• Hulk couldn't bring himself to kill Hiro-Kala, the son he never knew, who was about as much of a complete monster as Hulk had ever faced. I don't think he could bring himself to kill Betty. Ever. But I've been wrong before. On the other side of things, in the Fear Itself Crisis Crossover, Hulk's doing a Brain Washed And Crazy Face–Heel Turn where he's trying to Resist the Beast (actually Hulk doing that and not Banner, for once). Since Pak's run is going to be up not long after Fear Itself ends, one doubts that they'd follow up one dip into the darkside with another so soon.
• Both Hulk and Betty are alive after Fear Itself.
• Jason Aaron's first storyline with the character, that will be spinning off directly from Fear Itself rather than Heart of the Monster, will have Hulk and Banner separated into two bodies(seems to still be Green Scar Hulk, though), with Banner going crazy and the Hulk being brought in to stop him.

If the comic continues, Betty Ross will be the main character.

Her story is that she'll try to become The Atoner for everything she has done to Hulk.

The ending of Incredible Hulks 635 will be the death of Hulk

• Jossed, Jason Aaron takes over the book after Pak's run ends.

There are two storyline in ''Incredible Hulks 630-635.

It would be about Hulk and Betty:

Hulk will not pull a Face–Heel Turn and a Split-Personality Takeover.

Umar will become the Hulk's new love interest.

By the end of Heart of the Monster Bruce/Hulk will be completely tired of Betty/Red She-Hulk, not to mention the rest of the world. In the end he'll choose to leave with Umar, who previously offered him a position as her 'consort' which he will now accept. Hulk's new series will be focused on him having mystic adventures, while Skaar ends up taking his place in the MU. This paradigm will last until Summer 2012 when he'll be back just before the Avenger's Movie comes out.

• That would actually be kind of cool. From what I've seen of Heart of the Monster, Umar is the only one of the Hulk foes summoned that isn't initially hostile to the Hulk, just amused by the situation.

Predictions for Heart of the Monster.

• Betty is permanently Red She-Hulk.
• All of Hulk's old foes Bi-Beast, Wendigo, and others are out.

Betty's partnership with Tyrannus is her plan.

Betty joined Tyrannus for a specific purpose.

Betty joined Tyrannus for a damn good reason.

The Banner bloodline is cursed to suffer great misfortunes.

Where to begin? Oh yeah, Brian Banner becomes an abusive wife and father to both Rebecca and Bruce. He later dies in the latter's hands when he grows up as an adult. Rebecca is regularly abused by Brian, and is later killed by him. Bruce is abused by his father regularly due to the fact that he is responsible for the titular character's creation which he develops Split Personality to repress the emotions and memories of him. He then turns into the Hulk by the exposure of gamma radiation. Betty Ross is one when she dies by the hands of the Abomination, revive with the transformation into Red She-Hulk, and becoming a criminal.

Betty Ross/Red She-Hulk was working for the FBI.

Ever since the Hulk and his allies are declared heroes for the rescue at Washington DC, it would be impossible for the FBI to take an interest in this one. They needed to get their hands onto someone who is a part of the Hulk family and persuade him/her into doing favors for them in return for valuable information. Since they saw Betty as Red She-Hulk attacking Bruce in Florida, the FBI plans on using her in a plot to uncover the conspiracy behind everything. After the Chaos War arc, they demand to know why the Hulks are declared a menace so Betty has volunteered into their plot of letting Hulk slip up something. Because of the wire, the FBI found out she begins to fall in love with Tyrannus and made her leave Hulk as part of a gambit to pin him down.

The gamma bomb did not transform Banner

• Bruce Banner is a mutant shape-shifter whose power manifested by changing him into a creature that could survive the bomb. Banner, however, believed it was the radiation that changed him, and thus kept to the two forms due to a mental block. The Banner's transition from night-triggered to emotion-triggered transformation and subsequent color and personality changes are the result of his full power slowly emerging.
  • Alternately, Rick Jones' status as a Weirdness Magnet is actually part of his reality altering powers, and Rick changed Banner into the Hulk so he would survive the bomb.

In a future crossover with DC, Hulk will become a Red Lantern

• Do you mean a corps member, or a Red Lantern Battery like the Anti-Monitor to the Black Corp?
  • Yes.

The Hulk is the Marvel Universes Rage Entity

When the Gamma bomb went off it caused Bruce Banner to merge with the MU's equivalent of the Butcher. It just happens that in the MU, the embodiment of rage is nicer.

The Worldbreaker isn't a separate personality

During the events of Planet Hulk, it was shown that Bruce and the Hulk had finally come to an agreement, if not an alliance, with each other, in a way that made it seem like the Worldbreaker was the result of a true merging of Hulk and Banner, where neither side was repressed. This was one of the reasons given for that form's incredible power. However, after the events of World War Hulk, it was made to seem as though Bruce and the Worldbreaker had always been separate.

My theory is that the Worldbreaker really is a true merger of Hulk and Banner, and that the "Bruce" and "Hulk" that appear after World War Hulk are a set of new personalities, with the former created by both the real Bruce and the Hulk's fear of the power they held as the Worldbreaker, and the latter created by, ironically, the new "Bruce." This would be the first time Hulk actually could feel and understand fear, so combined with the trauma of the event it was more than enough for a separate personality to emerge. While Hulk was in stasis after WWH, this fear fed on the memories and personality of Bruce, as Bruce's life prior to Planet Hulk was ruled by fear. This personality needed a "Hulk" though, so he made one, which explained why "Bruce" had such control over the transformation immediately following, and why "Hulk" was comparatively calm when put next to his previous Savage self. It was a bit of a merger of Savage and Grey, as not even "Bruce" could keep track of all of the Hulk's many personalities.

Thus, Worldbreaker stepped aside and let "Bruce" and "the Hulk" deal with the world they nearly destroyed, as they were both too afraid of what they could do. It would be only when they felt strong and confident enough to handle a situation that they would themselves emerge. Or when they both agreed that they were necessary, as the case with Skaar and the Red Hulk showed. Unfortunately, "Bruce" has grown strong enough due to their inaction and doubt to be able to repress them successfully.

This also explains that when "Bruce" was separated from the Hulk by Dr. Doom, he was so desperate to become the Hulk again, and why "the Hulk" kept getting weaker the longer he was separated. They couldn't exist as solo entities as neither of them was a full entity to begin with.

General Ross was in charge of Hulk retrieval because his superiors knew he couldn't do it

Why would Ross be consistently given unlimited resources and command of anti-Hulk operations despite A) a record of almost constant failure, and B) the fact that he is clearly barely holding it together most of the time? Well, if you think about it, the Hulk is the perfect unsolvable problem for the military industrial complex. Any attempt to stop him destroys massive amounts of military hardware, which will need to be replaced; an unstoppable rage monster loose and hidden amongst average people will make them more willing to accept military operations on American soil; and he can never be killed or even really contained. The Hulk essentially represents a constant stream of money and political support for defense contractors, so Ross' higher-ups in the Pentagon with ties to those companies ensure that he is always in charge, so he can squander millions of dollars worth of conventional arms failing to catch the Hulk, when a more intelligent/rational commander might try contacting and reasoning with Banner, or focus on deflecting the Hulk away from population centers rather than attacking him directly, or call in the Avengers who could actually stop him. General Ross is a useful idiot for moneyed interests and politician-generals, and he's too blinded by arrogance and hatred to realize it.