- And represents Madness of Chaos. All other witches descend from her in unspecified way and are touched by that power.
- As discussed here.
- Asura's◊ head and Death The Kid's◊ are very similar. Asura's Sanzu lines, when he was lost to madness, were morphed into the eye form. Along with that, their skin tone, nose, and mouth are very similar as well.
- In the Book of Eibon, who was lost to madness? Death the Kid. If shinigamis are more susceptible to madness, that explains this well.
- Shinigami vs Asura. Shinigami gave up the ability to move to stop Asura. Their difference in power was not too great, and Shinigami doesn't seem very prideful. If he felt responsible for this, then he would fight Asura alone. He could've gathered a group of other powerful people to fight with him.
- Asura's Insanity wavelength can spread across the entire world. That means his soul is powerful enough to do so. The greatest souls seen thus far are Shinigami's, and Asura's. Asura's has not been seen, but it is safe to assume it is massive. Death the Kid's soul is also of a large size, and since he is Death the Kid, I doubt he trained it to that size.
- Surprisingly confirmed. Asura is indeed something of Kid's 'older brother' (both are fragments of Death though, it's compliacted.
- Considering the kind of clubs he frequents and the way Liz describes her mother as the prettiest prostitute in New York the guess makes sense, but their ages don't line up very well since he's 31 and she's 16/17, and I very much doubt he would have the money to meet with her mother at that point in his life.
You need a vessel for your latest experiment (i.e. Black Blood). You don't want to test it on yourself because it would make you go batshit crazy. And you don't want anything that would leave a paper trail (birth records, adoption papers, bills for your brand new clone, etc.). So you decide to whip up something using your own materials at hand.
It also explains hir gender confusion and a few of hir other general quirks.
- This seems unlikely; In their fight with Medusa, Spirit more or less states that he never managed to seduce her when he chats with Stein. If there was the least chance that Crona might have been Spirit's kid, he'd probably have mentioned it (if he'd had relations with Medusa, he would probably have been able to put two and two together).
- Good point, although it's likely Medusa could have chosen just about anyone she'd wanted, as a mix between magic and the power of genetics could probably produce whatever DNA cocktail she'd thought suitable, so long as she had a hair/spit/whatever sample. On that note, anyone could be Crona's father, including a mix of Spirit, Stein, Sid, and any of those other powerful guys whose names start with "S".
- This nicely dovetails into the "Maka's father isn't cheating" theory, their separation was to divert attention away from her; Shibusen isn't actively at war with non-hostile Witches, but it would be awkward politically for the current Death Scythe to be married to one.
- It adds nicely to the horror that Death Scythe felt when Medusa described how she abused Crona. He knows she didn't have to.
- There are a little holes in this theory, but just for the fun of it imagine it's all true and Maka's mother is not just a nice witch, but also the third Gorgon sister?
- That'd certainly put an interesting spin on things.
- Now Jossed with the introduction of Shaula Gorgon in Soul Eater Not!, but that would have made a great plot twist.
- An issue with witch genes allowing Maka to control the black blood is that Kim explains that for witches "destruction is the guidance of magic", as it's the consequence of their powers (use of their "immeasurable energy" leading to destruction). Unless Kami (and so Maka) was an exception like Kim, whose powers manifested through creation/regeneration, surely witch genes would enhance the black blood's destructive effects, not alleviate them?
- Well, her "Demon-slaying wavelength" (Or whatever your favorite translator calls it) isn't exactly a force of creation, now is it?
- It's not, but the problem with Maka being the daughter of a witch is that Kim is the only known exception to the more-or-less Always Chaotic Evil categorisation of witches in the 'verse. While there are clearly degrees to which witches use the destructive 'guidance of magic', by this WMG Maka would fall into it somewhere without there being something else at work; either the nature of her mother's power, or the other special skills she's inherited. Which, given the grigori soul thing, is still not out of the question.
- Given the lack of substantial world-building, it's not exactly impossible for more exceptions to be like Kim.
- Well, her "Demon-slaying wavelength" (Or whatever your favorite translator calls it) isn't exactly a force of creation, now is it?
- The problem is, Crona resembles Stein even less than he/she does Medusa.
- That seems like too far a stretch. Sounds more like a backstory for a fanfic than anything else.
- I don't think thats possible...seeing as how Noah is merely a physical manifestation of the chapters in the Book of Eibon.
- They have similar personalities. They are cowards who can't deal well with problems in their lives and kind of loners.
- They have somewhat similar faces.
- But this is an anime/manga. Most people look related.
- In order to use Ragnarok and the black blood you'd have to have either a very aligned soul or give in to insanity. Crona can use Ragnarok even when he is not in the insanity, which means his soul is aligned with Rangnarock- and very similar to the Kishin's.
- That is actually scarily plausible (also, according to Justin Law's rather faulty world view, would that make Crona The Antichrist?).
- It is, however, worth mentioning that Crona's had Ragnarok in them since they were very small, and was shown to suffer some sort of insanity when it was first injected (blank eyes, mumbling to themselves). They could just be very used to keeping a grip on some sort of sanity even with the black blood in them.
- Except Tsubaki IIRC is the first of the family to enter Shibusen. If her father (who probably has some uncreative yet awesome sword-related name) is a powerful Weapon, though, he might be the equivalent of a Death Scythe rather than a official one. Though perhaps the failure of the Nakatsukasas to achieve anything save mass murder with the demon blade mode might have caused him to avoid using his Weapon form much.
- If you think about it, it makes sense: His legend started eight hundred years ago, which was just around the time the first Weapon was made by Arachne. It's possible that the creation of him was what sparked the natural birth of other weapons around the world. Also, don't forget, when Death still had his scary mask and began taking in Weapon children, we were shown children as young as five or six, supporting that idea.
- Kinda confirmed. We wasn't made by Arachne and in fact, all Weapons were inspired by Excalibur and experiments were done trying to recreate someone like him. So kinda of a zeroth weapon.
- Not to mention Liz and Patty are clearly semi-automatic, so they exist as a pair that can wield each other!
- I came here tonight considering adding pretty much that. You've got my current theory on the matter kind of in one, and better phrased. Would add that the Sanzu Lines as they are in the manga had me thinking that rather than Kid just coming into being, Shinigami created him deliberately for the reasons that you give; necessity and security.
- Shinigami reproduce when wetted.
- I always thought Death made Kid because he was jealous of Spirit having Maka.
- Confirmed. Death the Kid was a fragment of Death and it's the same way his older brother Asura was confirmed.
- Confirmed! In a massive tearjerker, but confirmed!
- While highly unlikely, not to mention downright bizarre, the number of Maka/Kid shippers out there means that if it's at all true then the fandom fallout would be hilarious. Oh, there's a thought, where/how would Kid fit into this theory?
- Yes, the fandom fallout would be hilarious...anyway, Kid would be hard to place, but the possibilities generally point to one of three things. Either Kid is Kami's child as well, perhaps some kind of twins thing, Shinigami had another woman later or earlier, or Shinigami created Kid without a mother, which is why Kid is a "Shinigami" and Maka is not. Presumably, the third method means some funky magic.
- Possibility No.3 makes the most sense (as much as anything about this theory makes sense anyway) but No. 1 would be the most entertaining if there was a reveal.
- Jossed, Shinigami only reproduce asexually
- You know, the topic was brought up in the preview for the anime's third episode, shown at the end of episode 2.
- Confirmed, this is actually how Shinigami reproduce.
- Jossed, Kid doesn't have a mother, Shinigami reproduce asexually.
- (copies from my previous reply) no, it's because in Ch 73, it says that Kid has the Madness of order. symmetry is a form of order.
- Correction: Kid IS the Madness of Order (or a fragment at least).
- And doesn't have a mother, due to Shinigami reproducing asexually
- Jossed, Shinigami reproduce asexually, no woman really needed.
- I like this WMG better then the asexual reproduction one above.
- Attached as I am to the 'asexual' idea (the 'fragment' deal in ch72 is not helping my inclination to believe that's the case) but, yes, this would be neat. How about that Kid's mother was the Death Scythe before Spirit? Just because. The shape of Kid's soul (both the lines and the brief skull shape are shinigami-related) could be explained in some fashion; mangaverse Maka's Grigori soul and absence of Weapon traits weren't an issue.
- More specifically, she could be the Death Scythe in charge of Africa. If they had a falling out after Kid was born, it would explain not only why she isn't around, but also why the Death Scythe of Africa refused to follow the Summons after the Keshin's revival. More-over, assuming that Kid's OCD is inherited from his father, this would make the Death Scythes "perfectly symmetrical" gender-wise: Three male and three female, with one for each continent, sans Antarctica, which both logically and canonically lacks a Death Scythe.
- Jossed, Kid has no mother.
- Or else, who is Chrona's dad?
- ......
- Anyway, almost all casts have no father and/or mother.
- The mother of Maka, Kami, divorced with Spirit and has disappeared into thin air.
- Black Star's father and mother have been killed.
- So, I just provide this idea for reference...
- Anyway, almost all casts have no father and/or mother.
NOTE: This assumption would clearly apply only to the manga, as Maka genetically inherited Spirit's weapon powers in the anime.
- Addendum to the above note: Unless Maka's mother is a Weapon. We know there are at least two Scythe-type weapons, and Soul refers to the guillotine-weapon Justin Law as "the same type of weapon I am".
- Doesn't Maka have Spirit's eyes? Different colours maybe, but they're drawn in the same style, I think. That, and that in the manga Male!Maka seems to be just like Spirit when it comes to the ladies.
- Which is why things will be easier to confirm or deny if Maka's mother shows up, which is certainly a possibility. Besides, all Maka got was a nosebleed (and maybe an erection), and that was one DAMN hot succubus.
- Actually, I don't think Spirit's ever been shown to get a nosebleed around "hot women". Soul does though, or at least he did with Blair. I think male!Maka was supposed to emulate Soul, since s/he was also quiet, moody, and had spiky hair.
- Which is why things will be easier to confirm or deny if Maka's mother shows up, which is certainly a possibility. Besides, all Maka got was a nosebleed (and maybe an erection), and that was one DAMN hot succubus.
- As of chapter 106, firmly Jossed.
- Also, I'm slightly amazed that this hadn't been brought up before in some form or other.
- So when Spirit spoke about Stein's "experiments" on him, he actually meant...
- Not a completely crazy idea, but it's far more likely that their mother, being a hooker, simply had them by two different men (which might explain their different shaped eyes, different breast sizes and the like). It does get kind of hazy considering that they're identical in weapon form (and the only other weapon siblings in the series are twins, albeit non-identical), but it could be they both inherited (the same?) weapon abilities from their mother.
- Twins do not have to look exactly like one another. Subtle differences may be present (though it's exaggerated here,) but they are pretty much twins.
- Doesn't it say somewhere that Shibusen students can enter under any name they want?
- The troper above is correct. In Soul Eater NOT! it was clearly stated in the manga AND the anime. So the false name part is Jossed, but why would Soul's Grandma be surprised by this if she was a Death Scythe herself?
- Despite the extensive wrongness of this theory, a teeny, tiny, very, very warped part of me thinks it'd be interesting if it turned out to be true, if only to see all the Kid/Crona shippers go blue screen.
- This also provides a Freudian Excuse for Kidd's obsession with symmetry; subconsciously, he misses his twin - his other half. (And if finding out he has a long-lost twin doesn't send him into a Heroic BSoD, learning that they're his non-identical twin certainly would.)
- Jossed, Shinigami reproduce asexually. And Kid's only sibling is Asura.
- The Characters, when inside the first chapter of the Book of Eibon, are explicitly shown to have personality changes as well, which reverted upon entering the second chapter.
- I figure that, because of his suddenly serious tone at the time, that Spirit was trying to tell Maka something important about him and her mother during their rooftop conversation (if nothing more than an admission of guilt). This suddenly puts a new, weird, spin on it. Can see Spirit sending cards to cheer Maka up if her mother was out of contact, but not if she was dead. For a start, he's too bloody emotional himself to keep up such a charade.
- Maybe not entirely different reasons, but certainly not the only reason, I believe. It would explain the curious lack of flirting seen from a character derided as a pervert (but not so much recently). The way Spirit, being serious, begins to tell Maka something when they're talking on the roof following the Italy mission has always struck me as maybe (though probably not) being a significant omission. If that wasn't an admission of guilt Spirit didn't manage to make, maybe there is something else to it?
- He was infamous for being with girls as a teenager, but he did care about Maka's mom alot and the divorce was around the time Maka entered Shibusen. Afterwards, she just kinda vanished.
- Alternatively, Mrs Albarn knows what an awful excuse for an adulterer he is and is divorcing him anyway for The Plan. She just hasn't told Spirit this because can you see Spirit being able to keep his mouth shut about it in the face of Maka's disapproval?
- Similarly, she could have left him because she saw through his plan immediately, but was insulted he didn't trust her enough to keep her around ... thus setting the stage for her dramatic return and the time when Spirit and Maka's mother perform a ... Soul Resonance.
- On the other hand it could just be that while Spirit hasn't gone any further then very enthusiastic flirting, it was enough to make Maka's Mum ditch him. After all, if you assume that he's always been like that then she's had to put up with it for well over a decade. She probably finally decided that she'd had enough.
- Played with in a fanfic called One Night in which Spirit's memory is so damn fluid after an incident with the Mad Scientist that he's forgotten he married his on and off girlfriend and immediately stops after he remembers. This doesn't stop the witches from taking advantage of his lapses, though, as he can't remember what he doesn't want to think about.
- First, she exposed Stein experimenting on Spirit in his sleep and convinced him to change meisters - even though Spirit was supposed to keep Stein in control and he couldn't do that if they weren't partnered.
- Then she made Spirit into a Death Scythe, but when Spirit kept flirting with other women Kami decided to forcibly cement their relationship by deliberately turning Spirit into her baby daddy. It worked in that Spirit was eager to marry her and adored their daughter, but backfired when Spirit still kept flirting with every woman he saw - plus he was more interested in Maka than he was in his wife (not THAT way!), which pissed Kami off.
- Therefore, Kami filed for divorce and won Maka's custody in order to punish Spirit - but she doesn't care about Maka, which is why she's not around while Maka's at school. Maka, unaware of her mother's true intentions, has been manipulated to hate her father by her mother as part of Kami's revenge.
- Though I think this is somewhat extreme - deliberate selfishness as opposed to Spirit immaturity (and how much has his womanising *really* been shown?) - it would certainly be interesting to see the other side to the breakup of Maka's parents. All we know of the woman is that she was a great student/meister, and that Maka idolises her and wants to be as good as she was. Which may prove a problem in the future if Kami was less-than wonderful. Though as the Ghost who inspires Maka she's probably just going to be a straight-up admirable, reasonable authority figure. Making her practically unique amongst the adult cast.
- Wears a dress
- See the replies to "Confirmed, she's seen as a child wearing a (dressier) dress."
- It looks more like a robe, which is itself gender neutral.
- Name sounds more feminine then masculine
- Has pink hair.
- That doesn't matter unless s/he dyed it. In flashbacks, s/he has the same pink hair and I doubt s/he would feel the want or need to dye it at such a young age. If it's Crona's natural hair, then that doesn't indicate if s/he's a boy or a girl.
- ...and neither does it if it is dyed. Guys can dye their hair pink too, people.
- That doesn't matter unless s/he dyed it. In flashbacks, s/he has the same pink hair and I doubt s/he would feel the want or need to dye it at such a young age. If it's Crona's natural hair, then that doesn't indicate if s/he's a boy or a girl.
- Has a somewhat feminine figure.
- Confirmed, she's seen as a child wearing a (dressier) dress.
- Absolutely not confirmed, unless clothing is an absolute indication of gender. Might as well argue that Crona's a confirmed boy because s/he wore pants to the Shibusen Ball.
- Boy under a certain age used to wear dresses in the mid-16th century. Also, Medusa doesn't seem like the kind of person who would care if the clothing matched.
- Absolutely not confirmed, unless clothing is an absolute indication of gender. Might as well argue that Crona's a confirmed boy because s/he wore pants to the Shibusen Ball.
- Wasn't this Jossed by the author?
- If you do have proof of this information, please be kind as to give a citation of an interview from the author, or some other evidence that says this. It would be a great contribution to end the Flame War.
- It wasn't a statement of fact, it was a question. Some fans claim they've read an article in which Atsushi Ohkubo has said outright that Crona is a boy, but I haven't found any such thing. It was more of a request for information, assuming someone who's claimed this before actually has proof.
- If you do have proof of this information, please be kind as to give a citation of an interview from the author, or some other evidence that says this. It would be a great contribution to end the Flame War.
- I'm not sure if this will clear up the confusion for any one: So this was just in the anime, but I noticed that, unbuttoned, the buttons on Crona's collar are on the left side. The side which buttons are on a piece of clothing indicate what gender the clothing is meant for. On women's clothing, the buttons, unbuttoned, are on the left side. So this could indicate that Crona is wearing a dress/woman's robe. Although, in universe, I'm not sure if Medusa really cared what clothes she got Crona, or in reality, Atsushi Okubo didn't really care what side the buttons were on.
- Talks with "Boku", a Japanese male pronoun.
- That... doesn't really mean as much as you think. Bokukko use Boku even though they are girls.
- Yes, but aren't most Bokukko a bit more...I don't know, "outgoing" or something? I always thought most Bokukko were less Shrinking Violet types, but that's just me.
- The general translation for "boku" is more or less "I, a non-threatening male," which seems to fall in line with Crona's usual timidness. For a girl to use "boku," it could be more applied to a girl who's more outspoken or blunt than most. However, some Bokukko use that pronoun because they don't know any better, which would also seem very much in line with Chrona's characterization. The fact that "boku" is used sometimes for gender-neutral characters doesn't help.
- However...Alphonse Elric uses the pronoun "boku," and since Chrona's voice actor also voices Alphonse (Japanese too, right?)...yes, I know this is Insane Troll Logic. I'm very sorry.
- That... doesn't really mean as much as you think. Bokukko use Boku even though they are girls.
- Has somewhat more boyish voice.
- So I'm not the only one who thinks so!
- It's funny you both think that because both Crona's voice actors are female who are simply using a more toned down version of their natural speaking voice. Not to mention there are cases for females to have male-like voices. So Crona's voice in both versions can be fitting for either gender.
- Flat in the chest area. It's more obvious in the Manga, where Maka's breasts are visible and Crona is totally flat.
- Even though it's not the best indication of gender, it's true that Maka does have something, which is still more than nihl.
- Chrona's very undernourished, she complains that her ribs show too much. Any fat deposits were eaten up a long time ago.
- If Crona was as malnourished as you claim, he-she wouldn't have such a feminine figure.
- It is really hard to say. Consider the girls in Touhou Project; Almost all girls in Touhou are flat-chested.
- The curves could be natural. It is possible, after all, for a flat chested female to still have a nice shape.
- Crona is not a witch. And why would a witch's child not be a witch? Because he is a boy and only girls can be witches.
- Do we know for a fact Chrona is not a witch? We didn't know with Kim for a while, after all. And even so, Noah might throw a hitch in that theory (maybe).
- In Chapter 9 and Episode 12, it is a confirmed fact that Crona is not a witch as Medusa claims she is not the only one to bring outsiders who are not witches to the Witch's Mass.
- Do we know for a fact Chrona is not a witch? We didn't know with Kim for a while, after all. And even so, Noah might throw a hitch in that theory (maybe).
- He did wear a tux/suit to a formal dress party.
- Yes, but the Thompsons wore what looked like tracksuits. And there's no question of what sex they are.
- Well, when the Thompsons dressed up that time, it was probably planned considering Kid had them dance the can-can. Then again, I thought he looked really cute in that white formal suit.
- Yes, but the Thompsons wore what looked like tracksuits. And there's no question of what sex they are.
- In Chapter 68, when Black Star sees that Crona has three Demon Swords, he mentions his own three swords. His third being his "ultimate weapon". He then wonders if Crona has one more. So he's not sure, but he's betting Crona's male.
- But I don't think so. I think it produces one more proof for Chrona to be a girl, instead.
- I think females will be angered for being mocked of by Black Star's Penis Joke, as they may think someone like Black Star is looking down at female for being a female.
- I believe that the penis joke said by Black Star is quite disrespectful to any girl, and thus, no wonder that Crona is angered.
- I thought that Crona was more angered that Black Star's comment lead to Ragnarok trying to show hir privates. Boy or girl, Crona wouldn't like to be exposed like that.
- It's Ragnarok's reaction that might hint at Chrona being a boy - he actually tried to show that Chrona had another "sword". He started lifting up Chrona's dress (thing), which may have been a way of "proving it" to Black*Star. Even then, I seriously don't think Ragnarok knows what gender Chrona is...
- Oh, come now! Rags MUST know. If Crona is a girl, she must have periods and expel blood. If Crona is a boy, he must get erections and thus have his dick filled with blood. Either way, there's no way he doesn't know!
- Actually, if Crona was a girl, she wouldn't have periods- she's too thin to the point of malnourishment so her body will stop the menstrual cycle in order to provide more nutrients.
- "I don't know how to deal with girls" implies that "I" and "girls" belong to separate categories.
- but you have to remember, the only contact Chrona had with girls (As far as we know) was with Medusa. So it could be that if Chrona is female, she doesn't know how to deal with OTHER girls.
- The idea isn't that not knowing how do deal with girls means Crona isn't a girl. It's that the phrasing of the statement puts girls in a separate category.
- Do you know how it was phrased in the original Japanese? Because in Japanese it might not be so.
- Well, if he has a problem dealing with girls, then why wouldn't he have a similar issue with boys? Just saying...
- Crona takes out a giant mob of thugs just before Maka shows up, which was, to my knowledge, entirely male. It could be that s/he had only faced males, if that scene and his/her dialogue when meeting Maka is anything to go by.,
- but you have to remember, the only contact Chrona had with girls (As far as we know) was with Medusa. So it could be that if Chrona is female, she doesn't know how to deal with OTHER girls.
- To add on to the theory that Chrona is a boy, it's likely he acts and dresses feminine because Medusa wanted a girl. She basically treated him like crap for being a boy, and probably played a huge role in his own gender confusion.
- Wasn't this confirmed by the author?
- Confirmed? Where?
- Someone has been trolling the internet and saying it is. Some deviantART works can be found to say as much.
- Confirmed? Where?
- Crona is a boy because surely someone would have gotten curious and it would be a simple matter of following him to the bathroom. Everyone refers to Crona as a "he." So it seems likely to me that he's a boy.
- Obviously in canon, everyone knows Crona's gender. And every time Crona has been referred to as "he" is really just the translator(including the dub).
- As mentioned above "He" is the translator's way of getting around pronouns since its the most proper way of addressing someone whose gender is unknown. No one in-universe actually knows, which is why Patty asked if Liz knew whether Crona was a boy or girl, and why Black*Star asked if Crona had a "third sword."
- Yes, going with Crona/Ragnarok is a hermaphrodite. Two souls fused in one body due to Medusa's experiments. Ragnarok can poke out more than his sword arm whenever he chooses. Hence Rags had no problem rising to Black Star's penis joke bait. Crona resists of course because her girl parts would be shown at the same time. Thus endeth the Crona gender flame wars. (Or perhaps just adds a third faction.) I foresee some really nasty doujinshi coming...
Medusa's experimented on a sane Chrona until he/she/it (whatever Chrona was originally) until they cracked and splintered into two personalities. The timid Chrona created Ragnarok as a powerful alter ego to endure Medusa's torture but his/her own self loathing created a weapon that hated its meister as much as he/she hated him/herself.
- After all the other jokes about Crona's gender, this has to be done at some point.
- ....Well, I think the simplest explaination for that behaviour would be Crona's treatment by Medusa and their presumably limited social interaction with others prior to coming to Shibusen. Not to mention the effect of Ragnarok on Crona's mental state. Given what we saw in flashback it's unlikely Crona would quickly adapt to anything other than relying on Medusa and her orders. And considering Medusa seemed to get her child back from Shibusen pretty quickly, Crona didn't get the chance to develop the skills they lacked. The result of insanity and trauma would be my take on it.
- It would explain Alucard's ability to revert back to his original body(ies) and how he can turn into a cloud of bats.
- Now consider Crona's name (and how Japanese transliteration works) and marvel once again at how brazenly Medusa hides things in plain sight.
- For those of us that unfortunately don't know Japanese, can you explain?
- 'Clone', if you replace the 'r' in Crona with an 'l'? Apparently, English translation can be awkward when it comes to which of the two it should be.
- Actually, hir name comes from "Kuro na", that means something like "Dark One". Well, that explains a lot...
- Well, that would explain the hips...
- For those of us that unfortunately don't know Japanese, can you explain?
- In a depressing parallel to Maka, Crona was introduced at a point when they were close to becoming a Kishin - it's why Stein and Spirit were told to kill them, but Ragnarok lost the souls when Shinigami took them from him (manga only, Maka's specialness did it in the anime). Maka began the series close to making Soul a Death Scythe, but lost them to Shinigami after they screwed up with Blair. Now, Maka and Soul have recently reached their goal, and Crona has undergone their own changes. Like Maka and Soul are vastly tougher than they were before, I reckon that Crona is vastly worse, both in strength and mental state. It'll be very fun to see how Maka offers sympathy this time around. Though maybe not for a while; Crona's page of screaming was straight after a scene in Noah's hideout. Perhaps Medusa is after him and his book next, as another part of her long game (or games, she has had to re-think before now).
- Considering who she revealed this to, Medusa could have said it just to upset Spirit and Stein. It certainly struck the closest Spirit's got to a Berserk Button, as he was pissed off enough to try and attack her himself. Or want to at least give her a good talking to. And cry.
- The likely explanation for this would be that Medusa is not Chrona's biological mother (unless we're at some point introduced to Chrona's father, which opens up a whole other can of worms for this page). Either Chrona was adopted/kidnapped or to tie into the idea that Chrona has no gender, that Medusa created her through some other method, possibly cloning or through magic.
- Even if she did 'really love them all along' she was still horrifyingly abusive, and Crona has crippling PTSD from her treatment of them. The only possible way she could repent was to stay out of Crona's life forever.
- I support this. If only because it would throw everyone else for a loop.
- And she has already been introduced: Angela. For starters, each Gorgon sister has had one or more male Dragons serving her, each of whom she has some kind of hold over or has manipulated in some way. Medusa has either Free, Eruka, or possibly even Crona. Arachne has Grinko and Misquito. Angela would have Mifune. She might have even stolen a young girl form like Medusa in order to gain Mifune's protection. And now that Black*Star has taken over Mifune's job...uh oh!
- The third Gorgon sister's name is Shaula. She's slightly younger than Medusa and Arachne, looking teenaged, but she isn't a little girl. She was introduced in Soul Eater Not, the spinoff series.
- I thought the reason was Plot Tumors. besides, wouldn't it make more sense for the Kishin to be the final Big Bad?
- Unless he's the Bigger Bad - Asura's indirectly been the cause/inspiration for most of the events in the series and the Lovecraftian stuff Okubo's been pulling recently may indicate more of a Cosmic Horror role for the Kishin and his remaining fellows. Certainly Medusa is the one directly causing the majority of bad things so far.
- Played With. She is the Big Bad of the spinoff series.
- Or she was the witch whose soul was used to create the first weapon.
- Jossed, she shows up in the spinoff series.
- Furthermore, Arachne and Medusa were both (as noted above) transformed humans in the myths. One other notable story where Athena transform mortals is the story of Meropis. Who was transformed into an owl for insulting Athena. In addition her family were transformed into other birds by other gods (her sister into a seagull for joining in the aformentioned insulting, her brother a charadrius for attacking the gods in retaliation and her father a Raven and added in a curse to only give bad news for complaining). In another story she recives bad news from a Raven (the same person she'd transformed in some versions, a decendant in others and occasionally just some random raven) and turned it black (which apparently made all other ravens black...when they're previously been white...yeah). Soul appears to be an albino (and in any case has white hair), so...yeah...I don't know where I'm going with that.
- Also, the three gifts Athena gave to humanity were weaving, agriculture and metalergy. Medusa forged weapons, Arachne wove webs of decete/farmed madness so perhaps the final sister will have something to do with agriculture or weaving?
- Actually it was Arachne who invented the demon weapons, so metallurgy fits her better. Medusa I would go with farming due to all her experiments growing things. That leaves weaving for the third sister.
- Ooh ooh, better, her NAME will be Athena!
- Jossed. She's a scorpion witch.
- The Nakatsukasa spirit is a deer.
- Tsubaki can transform into a wide range of different weapons, suggesting perhaps a particularly strong witch’s soul.
- Mosquito recognizes and expresses particular interest in Tsubaki.
- Medusa, in recruiting students for the charge she leads on Baba Yaga Castle, mentions only Black☆Star by name. Considering that one of her goals was to obtain a Gorgon body...
- Oh wow. If this was a potential plot thread, poor Tsubaki would have been possessed by Medusa! I am both acutely terrified and genuinely aroused at the same time.
- It has paid off, her defending Death City during the Christmas attack against the Mouse Witches was an impressive display of loyalty in itself.
- In fact, it's possible that Blair is working in secret for Shinigami-sama all along; "testing" students who technically have 99 souls; but not the power required to create a Death Scythe. Maka and Soul, for example, couldn't synchronize at the beginning of the series; once Blair figures that they aren't synchronized she "loses" in a way that forces them to give up their collected souls. This would be similar to the test that Sid and Dr. Franken Stein were a part of.
- Just prior to B.J. dying he mentions he detects 7 Witches. At the time the confirmed are: Medusa (1), two members of the Mizune Family (3), Eruka (4), Kim (5) and two workers at the one shop Maka's father frequents (7). So unless the last two were random innocents to account for that thing that killed BJ and Blair, or Blair was out of town at that moment, then this might be jossed.
- After the Brew battle Blair actually went with Soul and Maka on a mission, so it's possible she really wasn't in town at the moment.
- Note that Free can use magic and is a "wolf", but he isn't a wolf witch, though what parts of his magic are werewolf and what parts are from the witch's eye he stole...
- It might be worth noting that the two unknown "witches" taken were from the club Blair works at. So it might be possible Medusa only knew a witch, or two, worked there and guessed at who she thought said witches were. The two taken are just red herrings to throw off people before the reveal.
- The two that were taken are clearly witches as they are shown to be talking to the head witch just before they were taken.
- Then for this not to be jossed three possibilities remain: She was out of town (Either coincidence or Shinnigami-sama told her to scram while B.J. was in town), B.J. was in on her thus it is 7 witches he was unfamiliar with or she's just that good at hiding herself (she is to Soul Protection as Maka is to Soul Perception).
- One more possible point in favour of this theory; consider the writer's taste in character names, and then consider which film has Blair in the title. It's a stretch, I know, but it would fit in with the rest of the name-related wackines
- Given Shinigami's reaction to the mere possibility that the destructive 'way of magic' could be surpressed in Angela, I'm finding it harder to believe that Blair is a human witch with a cat theme, as opposed to what she's said to be. If the Shinigami's willing to accept two witches as easily as he did, why bother to go to the trouble of hiding Blair's true nature? But Shinigami being Shinigami, he could quite simmply do both if it suited him.
- Key phrase there: "human witch with a cat theme". I always thought that it's sort of the other way around, a witch-cat instead of a cat-witch, if that makes any sense.
- See, this makes no sense, because none of her spells use a cat or feline based phrase, but Pumpkins. I think this supports the fact she's just a really magical cat of some kind. Plus the fact she doesn't lose her ears when she turns human.
- Which would still make sense, as Free isn't a wolf-witch, but a werewolf with a witch's eye who can use ice-based attacks. Blair could be a cat with some part of a witch and have a pumpkin theme after a similar fashion. On top of that, Free is immortal, and Blair has nine lives/souls, which makes it even more brilliant!
- At this point, don't we just need Maka to look at Blair's soul to get an answer to this? She screwed up first time around because she couldn't tell a cat from a witch. Now she knows what witches are really like, and has the soul perception skills to get a definitive answer.
- Regardless, it doesn't really matter if Blair is actually a witch or not. She's proven herself to not be evil, like Kim.
- Unless the scanlation is wrong, on the Christmas attack Death the Kid comments he senses 8 witches. There are 5 Mizune sisters, Eruka(6) and Medusa(7), which leaves an 8th spot open
- It's possible that Kid was including Free as a witch since he mentioned Ragnarok (And by extension Chrona) but not Free as an addition.
- If so, then Angela would be in the same boat.
- She already fulfilled the requirement for 99 souls from Mifune, so she's primed to become a Death Scythe at any time. Will mostly likely involve a Heroic Sacrifice on the little witch's part.
- Ironically, this was the original plan for completing Tsubaki's requirements, back when she and her meister were first introduced.
- The witch leader's name is Mabaa, which roughly means "Old Witch". The English dub of the anime calls her the "Grandwitch".
- Sorcerers are male witches, so the first theory and the second theory could sorta work. (Mostly the second theory, it applies much better to manga canon, and adds needed world building.
- Would make sense, as Asura and possibly the remaining Great Old One/s are a threat to both sides, as is Medusa. An early chapter and comment by Eruka tells us that the Witch Queen was then biding her time before acting, uncertain of what the future held. If waiting has allowed her to see how the Witches Assembly and Shibusen have enemies in common, perhaps it will lead to an Enemy Mine (?) situation of both working together.
- Surprisingly confirmed. Kid convinces Mabaa for a truce ad to put the fighting behind them, even after Asura's defeat.
- Perhaps not evil per say, but what if he's simply Selfish Good? Discworld aside, having someone like Death be the one and only staunch protector of life and normalcy is rather thematically odd, what might make some sense is if he's simply trying to protect the historical cycle of birth and senescence on Earth from any radical change, purely because that would mean he'd be out of a job and thus cease to be. This also explains his choice of enemies: Kishins and other generic monsters (too many humans eaten would turn the world into a lifeless wasteland,) Asura (a formless sea of chaotic madness would have no life or death,) and the witches (numerous unnatural experiments, most particularly immortality.)
- Well he still uses Child Soldiers as his personal army to fight Eldritch Abominations for him. Although he is lawful he is not good, in fact I would have trouble explaining such behavior as neutral even when and if those Child Soldiers were absolutely necessary.
- If his main goal is to protect the cycle of life and death at any cost, with being a nice guy strictly incidental in nature, that would match up pretty well with child soldiers.
- But he is still evil don't forget he made Asura the monster his today by training the poor bastard, created Asura himself, basically raised his two sons to despise and foil each other, shamelessly replaced his older son with an "improved" one, tore off his skin with little to no remorse, and seems slightly interested to see which side Kid will take, rather than worried. He also has had shady dealings with Eibon and Medusa and has consented to the use of the Morality Manipulation Machine on the aforementioned five year-old to turn her into one of his soldiers. So I am pretty sure he is a Villain with Good Publicity and an Eldritch Abomination because he is Law not good or even neutral.
- Many of the spoilered information above are from wrong translation of ch 108 and possibly other preceding chapters. he clearly regrets that he created Asura, repeatedly stating that "it's all from the seeds I've sown." His exact lines from ch 108: "It is all my fault... but I can't do anything other than pushing the burden onto Kid and others." He even says that he is in no position to criticize Medusa for experimenting with her own child, comparing it to how he himself created Asura. And no one mentioned anything about which side Kid will take. Excalibur said he will see for Shinigami's sake(because he's going to die) which of the two sons will become a new Shinigami.
- Interesting theory, but slight problem, with the "extermination of witches" bit: he didn't object to Black*Star sparing Angela (he even tried to give Black*Star a heads-up before he took the assignment).
- The idea of possibly using the Morality Manipulation Machine on Angela came from Kim, in an attempt to convince Shinigami that they could handle Angela. Shinigami just replies with a blanket OK to the idea of taking Angela in, without replying to any of the specific details they mentioned. He just doesn't talk details in general, and his alternative answer would have been "No we can't keep her."
- Or not evil, just different. For starters, he is implied to be a personification of the madness of Order, etc., which means he's an Eldrich Abomination. Also, depending on language or translation, his name (which he presumably chose himself) is either "Death", "God of Death", or "Grim Reaper". All the "evil points" ascribed to him are based on what central theme: That he kills people (directly or via proxy), allows people to be killed, or endangers people (particularly children). He may not even think that death is all that bad, so long as order is preserved. He may not be good though, just Lawful Neutral, which leads us to:
- Adding to this, in some way he lost his body, and before that, he impregnated whoever Kid's mother is before his soul was bonded to his current form. FMA crossover anyone?
- Don't flashbacks of roughly 800 years ago show Shinigami still looking the same? He's a literal god, I think he can take whatever form he wants. Kid's got a human form due to being incredibly young by Shinigami standards, and also not a full fledged shinigami yet. As for Kid's mother, Shinigami are completely asexual, Kid just flat out doesn't have one.
- That seems plausible.
- Kid's suffered from his assumption that Shinigami would not tell him the truth about Eibon. He was probably right, but like with the "Kishin closest to all of us" question (incidentally,it's worth noting Shinigami was lying about Asura again when he said he didn't know what he was. Just how far is he obfuscating...ignorance?) he might have been given something to go on if not the whole truth. As it is, Kid's hit with the GOO's Reveal without any solid information, poor bugger. He's got a lot to learn and confronting Shinigami would seem to be the way to get some answers. Shinigami will probably need to be straight with his 'fragment' eventually, because Kid's current state shows that even 'beings of insanity' can be driven into further madness and presumably on a purely practical level Shinigami wants Kid on-side to function as his replacement. (That and the fact I think he actually cares and won't be too happy another of his old friends is causing his not-exactly child grief).
- Happened in the anime. We know how that turned out. Don't think it'll happen the same way in the manga given the circumstances.
- You're probably right. Though it always struck me as daft, if understandable, that Kid didn't look for more information from his father in the manga and instead went along with poorly founded suspicions. Suspicions which turn out to be just part of only one side of the story. So much for looking for order and balance if you don't know one side from the other. Just one of the mistakes he makes.
- Happened in the anime. We know how that turned out. Don't think it'll happen the same way in the manga given the circumstances.
- Seems to be the common fandom interpretation for the moment. Having an heir would make an awful lot of sense given that Shinigami is stuck, and there are clearly threats around that need a mobile death god. Having one only now could be justified by the current strength of Shibusen, as Mosquito admits its enough to maintain the order in the world, or at least until Asura's resurrection began to tip the balance. Before that point, any young shinigami could have been at too great a risk from the Shinigami's numerous opponents. After all, whatever Kid will grow up to be, until very recently he's not been shown as much more than a strong, fast meister not at all far removed from his human classmates.
- Confirmed. Once all of Kid's Sanzu lines connected, he ahs become a true Shinigami while Shinigami-sama fades into dust, proud of his son's achievements.
- Jossed. Shinigami died once Kid connected all his lines. Ouch.
- Eibon and Shinigami so far haven't been seen together, which doesn't seem out of place until you think back to the battle for Brew. Eibon just happens to show up when Shinigami did? Not to mention Medua made the claim Arachne made the first demon weapon without the aid of Eibon, just his book.
- Demon weapon and death scythes are implied to be one in the same through the creation of the first "demon weapon" described. A good many souls with a witch soul to glue it all together. Just the motives seem to be different. Ragnarok is off in this regard not because of being a demon weapon, but the black blood.
- Shinigami has a large collection of Eibon's stuff. He didn't gather it all, it was his to begin with.
- They look similar enough that the difference could just be a mask-swap away.
- Eibon created "Brew", which can draw out Shinigami powers - a likely invention of a Shinigami.
- Actually, Mosquito says it enhances soul wavelengths, not specifically shinigami abilities. The Sanzu thing came about because of the kind of soul Brew was enhancing at the time. I wonder whether this was the reason Shinigami gave it to Kid; unlike the others, he hasn't had any major development in his abilities, and Shinigami knows the kind of thing Arachne does and what shinigami - obviously - are capable of.
I mention all this information to lay the groundwork for this WMG:
- Both the Great Old One and the Table of Contents called him (or at least implied) that he's a fragment of Shinigami, who in turn is presumed to be the very being of the Madness known as the rule of law, implying that Kid himself is a being of absolute insanity, similar to that of the clown.
- As of chapter 73, it is most likely safe to assume that Kid is currently INSANE
- Kid is obsessed with balance (even if he does tend to focus on the balance created through symmetry) to illogical degrees—rather than just kick any irrational thoughts of insanity or following the path of the kishin, which both Maka and Black* Star did, he'll figure out some way to balance sanity and insanity.
- By creating this balance, Kid will be able to use himself as a catalyst for the technique "Madness Fusion", rather than using the clown since, even if just a fragment of the Madness known as Law, Kid still is a being of insanity.
If he does get the ability, it will probably let him power up several of his moves, or simply Liz and Patti. It might even let him develop some shinigami skills that should have come with age or proper training, or may allow him to force a similar reaction with his Sanzu Lines as the Brew did.
Chances are he'll be snapped out of whatever he is in when Spartoi finally find him anyway, but it would be a really cool way to come back into action. Even if it is a one off of regaining his sanity whilst he's in his state, just to see him use some skills of controlling his madness rather than pushing away like everyone else would be kind of neat.
- Shinigami knows what Noah was, a chapter of the book, but didn't exactly admit it when Kid claimed - rightly enough - that Noah was like a 'machine' rather than a person.
- Confirmed. Noah is a personification of the Book's power. Also, each Noah is driven by a different chapter (the most well-known being Greed Noah.)
- Asura was built up as the ultimate villain of the series, a role he certainly played in the anime, but we've seen neither hide nor hair of him in the manga since he first escaped. Instead, Arachne became the immediate threat. Now that her storyline (and arguable Plot Tumor) is over, surely it's time to return to the Big Bad. Noah looks like another distraction — but not if he's really the Kishin.
- Asura lives in constant terror and is obsessed with concealing himself; hence all the scarves. So even if he's going to take direct action, he'll want to be as well hidden as possible. How better than with a whole new identity? Hell, he's had two (Noah was calling himself Eibon for a while).
- Following on that last point, Noah's highest priority so far has been to eliminate the Shibusen personnel who are best with Soul Detection — i.e. those who would have the best chance of seeing through Noah's disguise, be it Soul Protection or something stronger.
- So far, we only know of one character who was working directly for the Kishin: Nidhogg, captain of the Flying Dutchman. And who was he working with when we last saw him? Noah's buddy the Clown.
- Considering his god complex, Justin Law surely wouldn't have betrayed Shinigami for just anybody. His motive gets a lot more powerful if Noah is really Asura.
- Considering the number of parallels between Asura/his Weapon and Crona/Ragnarok (the Weapon existing within the meister's body, the affects of fear leading to madness and great destructive power (or so it seemed...)), there could well be something in this.
- Wow, that actually makes sense! Whoever wrote this, PLEASE make a fanfic about it.
- I'm flattered and even considered this, but there's really not much to say about it. I mostly figured this based on the pre-opener scenes shown in the anime with Asura standing amidst an endless and massive pile of bodies, and beyond that a seeming world in ruins.
- This would explain Excalibur, he isn't insane or rambling just for the hell of it, he's bringing up actual history but time has been fractured and people instinctively freak out about it because of mental blocks put into place by Lord Death. Excalibur is the Madness of Rage, and nothing makes people angrier than the truth.
- Other possibilities would be Ashura = Eibon, Eibon = Ashura's weapon and maybe Eibon = Ashura's relative. Also Shinigami might be secretly female.
- Partially Jossed it seems with the revelation of Eibon with Arcanaphobia and clearly being male.
- Except that "Eibon" just admitted himself to be a wannabe using the name. So the original Eibon could easily have been female (super easily, considering the mask and duvet he or she was wearing in the flashback).
- However, Kid's hair is apparently important: Mosquito comments on how the "lines of Sanju" are not complete....and then Kid gets fused with the Brew and one line completes itself and he gets a power-up.
- And Ashura/Kishin's could merely be Sanju lines ALL connected, ifin you support this theory.
- Then they'd have to 'broken' ones; they go the wrong way, being vertical rather than horizontal. Even so, I still like the idea of Asura as a 'broken' shinigami.
- Actually, look closely at Asura's hair. It's keeping in with his motif. They're eyes.
- I actually imagined at one point that Ashura may be Kid's genetic father, and that Shinigami only adopted him and lied about his heritage for all those years.
- Interesting in light of recent manga chapters. They are vaguely related, and Shinigami has been lying (or at least omitting certain significant details), though it seems definite that he and not Asura is Kid's father. For a given value of 'father'.
- Justin fits this one: a Weapon without a meister, isolated from others and appears to have gone mad after encountering the Clown.
- Kid's now met the 'isolation' criteria in an extreme fashion, which he - in his moment of insanity - greatly appreciates for it represents absolute order with 'no left or right'. The difference being that unlike the other two he didn't seek it out, it found him.
- Altar boys, naturally.
- Well, he does seem to be wearing a yamaka...
- Actually, I thought his headgear was supposed to be a zucchetto or pileolus. (The little hat thing popes and such wear).
- I thought he just wore it for the aesthetic.
- Why isn't it connected to his earbuds then?
- Rule of Cool has been shown time and time again to govern the world of Soul Eater. I'd be surprised if his Cross WASN'T his iPod.
- The earbuds are connected... wirelessly. Why bother? Rule of Cool.
- After looking at a few of Free's appearances, Maka's demonslayer wavelength and anti-magic of Witch Hunter did manage to remove his tail, so it seems you have a point. It's presumably down to the kind of soul behind the attack, rather than the amount of damage done to the werewolf; he seemed to get cut in two by Mosquito and still survived (although he might have produced the hologram while Mosquito was transforming (realising it was bad news), and it was this that the vampire cut in half) Frankly, Maka's been given a collection of abilities which allow her to potentially wipe out all the antagonists. Might as well add the 'immortal' werewolf to the list... (if you're right, it sounds as though Free boasted about more than his magical ability).
- Exactly. Except for... Free? Realize ANYTHING is bad news? If that's true, there would also be some Obfuscating Stupidity going around.
- Nah, I just didn't consider Free's carelessness - silly thing to miss out seeing as I re-read his original and the Baba Yaga fight chapters to write that point * shrug* . And even doing it, say, because he figured actually * breaking the lock they came for* would be a good idea, it's a rather too sensible conclusion for him to come to; do the job, leave the kid to get owned.
- Exactly. Except for... Free? Realize ANYTHING is bad news? If that's true, there would also be some Obfuscating Stupidity going around.
- Actually, if we combine this theory with another one below, about Excalibur having the madness of power, he acts this way to stop that madness from spreading. those that can put up with him could probably survive the madness.
- He DID seem more normal, when he was offering his help in chapter 74...
- More proof is when it's heavily hinted that Excalibur is the Great Old One of Madness of Rage. He encites rage into people to detur them from using his power properly. Those who maintain control of themselves (possibly Tranquil Fury) and being noble individuals he lets them wield and is serious.
- Personally I thought he looked rather Moomin-esque...
- That makes way too much sense. Excaliber being a bone is now art of my personal cannon.
- Not outright confirmed, but heavily hinted at.
- (ﺧ益ﺨ)
- Or it could be Free.
- Possibly confirmed Noah said that he only needed to get Shinigami and Asura, and he'd have all the remaining Great Old Ones (or at least implied this). Guess who we just met in chapter 74? Excalibur. (ﺧ益ﺨ)
- Franken does sound like a surname. I could believe that there's a stitched-up old Asian woman out there who insists on putting the family name first.
- I think she's his daughter. She has the stitching, and also has blond hair. Both potential love interests for Stein have blond hair. Make of that what you will.
- Now watch as your brain slowly shifts and notices that Maka is blond as well...
- As are the Thompson sisters. God help those poor girls if they ever do badly on a test and need an A really badly.
- Now watch as your brain slowly shifts and notices that Maka is blond as well...
- And Stein is the crazy grown up version of Souji, aka the Protagonist
- Or Lilinette was originally Patti, and Starrk at one point consumed her soul. But that's just depressing, Lilinette getting a further, better existence is the nicer option. Though if she's Lilinette, what happened to Starrk? They were the same being once, after all.
- Starrk is Liz, of course.
- Or Lilinette was originally Patti, and Starrk at one point consumed her soul. But that's just depressing, Lilinette getting a further, better existence is the nicer option. Though if she's Lilinette, what happened to Starrk? They were the same being once, after all.
- Then Frollo Would think that Maka and Soul are witches
- Is there anyone in Soul Eater he wouldn't consider a witch?
- Or maybe Frollo was tudored by Justin Law, who definitely has a priest/bishop/cardinal/Inquistion theme going.
- Is there anyone in Soul Eater he wouldn't consider a witch?
- adding to that, Spirit is Silver all grown up.
- Strictly speaking wouldn't the bolt alone qualify him as a cyborg (in so far as it's a mechanic device which is perminently grafted onto his body)?
- It doesn't even have to be permanent. Eyeglasses qualify you to be a cyborg...so, WMG confirmed.
- Spirit could be the son of Tamaki and Haruhi. He'd get the red hair from Haruhi's side, Maka's blonde hair comes in from Tamaki, and as for the last name...um...well, he probably changed his surname to Kami's surname when they got married and now refuses to change back even though they're divorced.
- Because I like these two shows (Code Lyoko and Soul Eater), and as far as I know we don't see Azusa's miester, I'm going to guess that its Ulric Stern(also of Code Lyoko).
- Shinigami even comments on how powering current techniques against witches past the current point leads to the Path of the Kishin.
- Nice point, but if we're to believe Stein's little rant to Medusa, he's always been the way he is. If anything, Spirit has managed to hold him back and this was, according to him, his role as Franken's partner ("I almost forgot...it's my duty to control this crazy kid"). That Shinigami has repeatedly looked to Spirit to keep an eye on Stein would make less sense if working with the Death Scythe was actually worsening Stein's condition. In the process, he could potentially have lost both his strongest Technician and his own Weapon, for we know Stein used Spirit as a test-subject in the past.
- Maybe it's more of a trade-off with whatever it is that allows Meisters and Weapons to syncronise with each other having the side effect of making them more susceptible to mental problems. There's plenty of real life talents that are linked to various problems in that department (for example the traits that lead to creativity are also linked to problems like Tourettes and bipolar disorder) so it's not that much of a stretch. The exact level of crazy differs from person to person for an assortment of reasons that are not necessarily linked with their occupation.
- Maybe it's not so much that they're crazy because they're Meisters or Weapons, but that they're Meisters or Weapons because they're crazy? It certainly doesn't seem like a job someone who's perfectly sane would just pick out for shits and giggles.
- It's doubtful that the show would end on such a down-note of her being the next Kishin, but she may find an alternative path.
- This would not be surprising, considering the amount of references to American movies and music prevalent in the series.
- I've always put the absence of Maka's mum down to her practicing Spirit Avoidence. After all, we all know what he's like. It isn't hard to imagine him doing something extraordinarily embarrassing (eg, hanging onto her ankle while begging and pleading) in a bid to get her to take him back. I just figured that she decided to spare herself the hassle and give him a wide berth. Plus I kind of doubt that a partnership would work if one half is monumentally ticked at the other. Don't know about the other Death Scythes though.
- I always believed that the lack of Meister is a result of the fact that not many Meisters can align their souls to the wavelength of a Death Scythe. (Which, by the way, would fit well with your theory).
- Sort of disproven by Chapter 60, where the South American Death Scythe is still working with his Technician (who is a monkey). Also, consider that Justin Law became a Death Scythe without a Technician.
- That still leaves Marie and Yumi who are both mysteriously meisterless, although I suppose it could just be that their meisters retired/went on to do something else.
- Not so much of a mystery, I think, considering what both went on to do following their introductions. Marie got Stein as a meister, as Spirit went back with Shinigami, and aside from being wielded by Sid on the Brew mission, Yumi's role has been exclusively administrative, gathering information for Shinigami along with filling in as Death Scythe for Oceania (Marie's position). As such, she doesn't need a meister at the moment. If Shibusen's Asia campus (where Yumi was recently shown to be) is anything like the one in Death City, there's bound to be suitable meisters around if Asuza happens to need one.
- Completely and utterly jossed, as of 63, Soul is now a Death Scythe; and Maka is becoming a rare kind of Meister called a Grigori where her soul has special abilities that can resonate with her Death Scythe (namely flight).
- I always believed that the lack of Meister is a result of the fact that not many Meisters can align their souls to the wavelength of a Death Scythe. (Which, by the way, would fit well with your theory).
- Maybe removing it would damage Death City itself?
- Discussed in the manga: even though Asura is gone, Shinigami-sama is still "rooted" to Death City - if he wanted to move, Death City itself would have to become mobile.
- New WMG: Before the end of the series, Death City will become mobile. Because that would be awesome.
- Seconded. Given the fact that the Rule of Cool runs rampent in Soul Eater, it might actually happen just because of the awesomness.
- No longer an WMG. It's canon as of 47. The City has legs and arms, and Shinigami went to great lengths to squash Baba Yaga castle, which also grew legs (eight of them). The robot ate Kishin Asura. Seriously. It was ridiculously awesome. Or awesomely ridiculous.
- One of the first mentions of the real Kishin came about when Kid met Nidhogg and asked his father whether the 'Kishin closest to all of us' had something to do with why Shinigami left Death City. Which apparently it did, but when Kid guessed correctly (for once!) Shinigami brushed him off with a figurative, vague answer. Perhaps the in-universe reason Shinigami can't leave Death City even when Asura is free is because he used up his power not just sealing Asura, but when he created Kid in order to depower himself to avoid ending up like the Madness of Terror-person. Would not be the first time one of Shinigami's lessons turned out to lack certain details.
- New WMG: Before the end of the series, Death City will become mobile. Because that would be awesome.
- Also, it's possible that's the real reason she wants to get married so badly. Unwed mothers aren't exactly exalted in society.
- Jossed. Liz and Patti's mother was a prostitute.
- Thus the 99 Kishin Egg Souls and 1 Witch's soul" goal is just a sign that one is ready'' to face Shibusen's true enemies; it doesn't actually physically transform one. That's the path of the Kishin.
- That was what I assumed, but it could be that there is a limit of 99 souls for soul weapons to carry (nature counts in base 10, neh?), and they need to absorb the power of a witches soul while "maxed out." If they get a witch's soul before they have all 99 pre-kishin souls, it has no effect because the weapon can't handle the internal fight for the power when not "full." If it takes in a hundredth non-witch soul, it then loses the souls like the game glitch where too much damage rolls over to very little damage, or has them all confiscated to prevent damage to itself.
- Might just be there is no true fusion. For example, Ragnarok was trying to become a kishin and was really eating souls. Still he had his confiscated when Crona did her Heel–Face Turn. Also, Ashura/The Kishin's weapon was "eaten", but still inside of him after all this time.
- After rereading the manga and rereading the bit about the arms race between Witches/Shinigami and the development of the first demon weapon being done by Arachne by sacrificing a fellow witch to help glue a demon of sorts to the first weapon sounds eerily like the 99 souls and a witch soul bit. Tsubaki being descended from a demon weapon also hints that "demon weapons" and "weapons" might only really differ in the motive.
- Considering in Chapter 77 of the manga, Soul used a new ability directly linked to Arachne's soul, which he ate in order to become a Death Scythe, I doubt that it's storage or just a general requirement to prove you're ready.
- Chapter 99 has confirmed that weapons need to fuse with souls; humans with weapon forms are still incomplete without a witch's soul to power them up (since their ability to shapeshift into a weapon is based on a witch's ability to shapeshift into an animal).
- I figured his name was Soul Evens, two brothers being names Soul and Wes isn't that much of a stetch. I assumed the Eater part was just him entering Shibusen under an ironic false name.
- The idea the 'Eater' part is a moniker is furthered in chapter 80 - when Maka answers the phone, she mentions 'Eater and Albarn', as though 'Eater' were Soul's last time. Adopting that bit fits with Soul's dislike of his last name, and his previously shown desire to do something independent of his musical background and family which apparently led him to join Shibusen. For a Weapon, it also sounds like the kind of name you'd use for yourself because you thought it sounded 'cool', and Soul wants to be that.
- He may have joined Shibusen for the same reason that Black* Star did...they killed his parents, but found no reason to do so to him as he was just a child so they brought him in.
- We see his house for a bit, and it looks grandish with all the photos and grand piano. Still, considering Maka was there was it a field trip or just take your daughter to work day if the above statement was true?
- Jossed in chapter 55; Soul has a flashback where he speaks with his brother, and he muses about how he wanted to get away from his family of musicians. He was tired of being compared to his brother, and so, upon finding out about his ability to turn into a weapon (an apparent recessive gene), he found his opportunity to break away and find his own path in life. While it has been proven that he lived in some grandeur and wealth of sorts, it's suggested his "cool", rebellious personality is how he actually is, as opposed to an upper-class gentleman.
- There are meant to be two European Death Scythes. Perhaps Justin killed the other one for discovering his deception, and Shibusen has yet to hear anything other than he/she simply being out of contact.
- The lack of response from the African Death Scythes (doesn't seem right for there just to be one) is to do with the experiments Medusa was conducting, discovered by Kirikou's team. They turned up something suspicious and either got killed or otherwise involved. The Death Scythe meeting already turned up some points regarding Justin and the South America pair, perhaps the odd comments about the Death Scythes who didn't attend will also come to something significant.
- There's another Asia Death Scythe, and they're working with Maka's mother as their meister. Because under the circumstances it makes no sense for someone with as much informed ability as the former Mrs Albarn to be doing nothing useful. If she's not going to be any help to her daughter, she'd better be doing something right.
- Well, we now know 7/9 of the Death Scythes. Soul, Spirit, Marie, Azusa, Tezca, Justin, and now a Russian guy called Tsar Pushka. He's currently fighting Chrona to the death.
- We discover the last two Death Mesiters, one is an Arabian one who can turn into a magic lamp while another is a traditional African who can turn into a rainbow-colored axe.
Taking this one step further, might this have something to do with Death being bound to Death City? Heck, what if Death City is literally Death's soul turned inside-out.
- Though it would be kind of nonsensical, one must also remember her eyepatch… Guess whose dad also wears an eyepatch?
- Shinigami has those 'arms' too, and uses them when threatening to skin Asura a second time. Thanks to the seal upon his soul, they don't reach far enough, but the implication is that those shadowy skull arms can indeed cause destruction.
- On the Elfen Lied comparison, given how the story has gone about giving Maka and Black Star their power-ups (both suffered before working through whatever challenge others/their behaviour had created), then Kid might end up getting into some nasty trouble before we see a permanent one from him.
- Actually, in Ch 73, it says that Kid has the Madness of order. symmetry is a from of order, and when he is mad, he realizes that in order for there to be perfect order, there must be no life. so as long as he is sane when he uses Brew, everyone should be fine!
- This actually ought to be the first thing that comes to mind of anybody sufficiently Genre Savvy when it comes to where the Book of Eibon and the Great Old One are almost certainly references to. Anybody who knows their H. P. Lovecraft or Lovecraftian lore should know exactly how far to trust an Eldritch Abomination found in a mysterious tome of magical lore.
- And now Okubo seems to have taken away most/all the glorious cracky creepiness surrounding the Goo with the claim that it posed no real threat to Kid after all, and no longer does the Book. Aww, no fair...
- Alternately, normal insanity could be a mild or biological form of insanity while the "Madness" is supernatural.
- The madness we see in the series is mostly related to Asura, who is the personification of Fear. Other types of madness, like Kid's obsession with symmetry, are not necessarily violent in nature.
- Soul and Maka discovered that they needed more than good combat skills to find and defeat a true witch. Their true lack of readiness is emphasised when Maka senses Medusa soul for the first time, after watching Stein and her father curbstomp Crona. Shinigami let Maka and Soul think they were going after a real witch - he has a list of targets - to judge the outcome. To kill two birds with one stone, he pretends confusion when watching the fight with Spirit in order for daddy to learn he has to deal with his daughter being in danger as a meister. Nowadays, Maka utilises her soul perception very regularly, to great effect.
- Black Star gets presented with his goal in a single mission, and the test is how far he's willing to go to get it. Even Tsubaki points out they might never get an opportunity as good as Angela and Mifune. Unlike Blair, both really are/were targets, but Shinigami used them to give Black Star a challenge beyond trying to beat things up. In the long run, and with lots of development, it seems to have worked.
- Kid gets what he thinks is the perfect mission, which his dad gives him because it appeals to his aesthetics and skills nominally as good as a three-star meister. We see he can't handle extremes of order and chaos without getting ecstatic/hysterical about it, but the mission ends with him in exactly the same position he started. Like the others, Kid pays the price for his mistake by losing the souls he collected, but it's taking him much longer than the others to get beyond his initial...issues. But he seems to have a thoroughly nasty justification for them, even if the GOO is lying, the order/death business with the Sanzu Lines and recent flashback with Shinigami still hold.
- Soul Eater NOT actually gives an answer to this. Sid was murdered by a Witch, and Stein brought him back for the science.
- DO WANT!
- Scratch that. Johnny Depp being Stein would be INEVITABLE. He'd be really good with the role, too, especially with handling the whole madness thing. I can imagine Lord Death would be CG. Please, Burton. Discover what you were destined to adapt!
- OH GOD. I'LL DIE IF THIS MOVIE ISN'T MADE IN THE NEXT FIVE YEARS.
- I could also see Leon Thomas playing Killik. An actor for Justin Law is right at the tip of my mind but I can't think of who it is. Same with Mifune.
- Helena Bonham Carter will play either one of the two main villainesses!
- Who will play Soul Eater then?
- I support this idea (Helena Bonham Carter has to play Medusa), and since the series has a primarily western setting, Americanization won't be a problem. The real problem I can see with this is how they'll find an actor or actress androgynous enough to play Crona (of course it would probably work if they got a little kid to play the role).
- Kid has already come into contact with the madness of "Law," fitting his fetish for symmetry and leading to his want for nothingness.
- Black Star will soon come into contact with the madness of "Power," following in the footsteps of his father and leading to senseless strength.
- Crona will come into contact with the madness of "Terror," reverting to his/her state of mind before his/her Heel–Face Turn, in which he/she destroys what he/she fears or is terrified by.
- Maka will come into contact with the madness of either "Knowledge," or "Rage," both of which represent aspects of her personality.
- This is getting closer and closer to being confirmed...
- DO WANT. If this happens, I hope they'll do a small arc based off The plot in the manga where Kim's secret is revealed and she escapes with Jacqueline to Arachnophobia and are brainwashed, with Ox and co. going to get them back.
- Actually, me and a friend of mine that is also a fan of FMA and Soul Eater have been talking about this since ages. We're hoping for a Soul Eater: Conqueror of Shibusen and a while after that a Soul Eater: Meisterhood.
- Now, what about Soul Eater: Meisterhood: The Movie?
- Really, another Dallas? Also, based on certain fates of various characters in both mediums, this would create a few heartbreaking examples of Harsher in Hindsight.
The fight between Black Star and Death the Kid put together the Hero and the Rival. There was talk of good, evil, and pithy speeches on purpose which were oddly long for this series' style of action. It was set up as being a climactic battle whilst patently being anything but, devoid of anything close to the significance one would expect in such a scenario. Nothing in Okubo's previous depiction of Kid and Black Star made this confrontation feel tense or even relevant, something which this kind of fight sure relies on for emotional impact (both in sympathy and rule of cool). And, more importantly SE's usual twisted approach to shounen was largely absent. Okubo pulls some crazy stuff recently, but this stuck out for being especially pedestrian.
It read like a plain action sequence in a series which rarely fails to add something out of the ordinary to every single fight, be it a surprise ending (Mifune), a nod to backstory/foreshadowing (Mosquito), or the 'mundane' importance of Soul and Maka's memories (why get your powerups from righteous goodness when you get can it from...violin music or your BFF?).
My theory on why Black Star vs Kid/GOO pulled out so many obvious shounen tropes? Okubo cast him as the Hero and wrote the chapters accordingly. Unlikely - most likely he did just fumble the 'dramatic final battle' thing - but it just seemed too shounen to be true.
- Shinigami's pieces are Kid (a smaller, alternative version of himself) and the humans and Weapons he trained.
- Asura pieces are Medusa and Justin, but being 'Terror' he didn't want them and Medusa at least is trying to use him, not vice-versa. But the Great Old Ones being what they are, even the manipulator has been corrupted and may yet find herself out of her depth with her own alternative version, Crona. 'Control' madness? The best she could hope for would be to let Crona loose and hope 'they' can be prodded in the right direction. Perhaps she is relying on Crona retaining some sanity - that resistance which prevented them becoming a Kishin before their debut - because so long as Crona's is aware they 'rely' on and fear Medusa, they will do whatever she asks. Making them completely insane, and so out of control, would presumably lose that aspect.
- Eibon influenced Arachne and like Asura he's had a massive effect without even turning up; she was able to create the Demon Weapons who are now being used/affected by his fellow Cosmic people Shinigami and Asura. Index, whatever it is, originally agreed with Eibon's intention of gaining knowledge, but is now going one step further than Arachne. She used what Eibon discovered - Index would teach it to others.
- The GOO itself, Power, clearly found a follower in Black Star and the fact it can go either way - a mindless void or purposeful application of power - both reflects what Black Star found in Nakatsukasa and indicates that the Great Old Ones can function without ending up like Asura or, 79 suggests, Eibon. Unfortunately, to do it you either need to split up your soul (Death/Kid) or seal yourself away from the world.
Naturally, the plucky kids will win this game, but it's interesting to look at the goings-on from a 'Cosmic' perspective now this whole Great Old One deal has been expanded on.
- The Nakatsukasas being descended from Arachne's experiments is confirmed by Mosquito when he sees Black Star fight Mifune.
- That's cute. I'm adopting that as fanon. Seems the sort of thing Spirit would do, because it's clear he likes Stein really.
- And now, Stein and Marie are having a baby! Maybe Stein will make Spirit his kid's godfather?
- Nice possibility. If we take the problem (one of them) with Kid's insanity in Salvage being that 'nothingness' doesn't allow for symmetry or order, then surely the witches - who thrive on madness simply in a different way to the protagonists - would see the problem of things like Asura overwhelming the current balance of power in the world. Same might go for countering Medusa, because she was persona non grata for the Assembly very early on, and possessing Arachne may not be viewed well, even if she was 'The Heretic'.
- From now on, this is my fanon.
- Or if not the Big Bad, there has to be something in the notion of Medusa's plans for Crona backfiring spectacularly. Afterall, she's meddling in the 'realm of the gods' or whatever Kid and Mosquito called it, and all the stuff she's managed so far is related to what Shinigami and his ilk personify. Magical, second-hand versions, and as such incomplete and imperfect. As soon as Medusa gets what she supposedly wants - Crona as a psuedo-kishin - it's going to kill her. Mind you, you'd think Medusa would have accounted for the fact that the closer Crona gets to being something like Asura the less influence she's going to have over the child, much less the power to restrain Crona?
- As of Chapter 87, Crona has killed Medusa, but judging by Medusa's last words, this was all part of her plan to make Crona a Kishin.
- Also, it seems that Medusa's plan had Black Blood, the resurrection of the Kishin and Crona, all related from the begining as seen when the Kishin is affected by Crona becoming more powerful due to both having Black Blood. Is possible that Crona was created especifically to absorb the Kishin.
- Both the heroes and the antagonists have an association with at least one of the 'Madness' beings, and most we've been introduced to overlap. Having witches in general included in this would be appropriate. It would also further indicate that in his well-intentioned extremism Shinigami is at odds with his fellow Anthropomorphic Personifications if not directly, than in spirit. We even see elements of 'order' in the fact the Witches Assembly are willing to act cautiously as a group in order to protect themselves from Shibusen, whereas the two Gorgons were ostracised from the Assembly for acting individually and meddling with other Great Old Ones.
- Alternatively, they resonate because Ragnarok wants the souls Medusa sends them after, and she terrifies Crona into going along with it. Although without some understanding they wouldn't function at all. When they get really at odds with one another we get the kind of rejection we see after they're curbstomped by Stein. A kind of body horror played for laughs. Stein is an example of a meister who doesn't need friendship to wield a Weapon, just an interest in it.
- Not to mention, if you pay close attention to them when they fight, it sounds like Ragnarok is trying to keep Chrona's head in the game, so to speak. Sure, he can be a real ass about it, but in the manga I noticed Ragnarok was sort of prodding Chrona along. Plus, in the anime, it seems like they have moments where one (usually Rag) is just being himself while Chrona's trying to be cordial enough to keep them from disconnecting. (really, how many people calmly tell someone that they can write a poem together after being called a dumbass? Then again, this is Chrona we're talking about, so this might be considered typical of him/hir).
- Another alternative is that Ragnarok is trying to be a [[{Stealth Mentor}} Stealth Mentor]] to Crona. Originally, he uses a prodding carrotless-stick method of coaching Crona into better battle performance(this being something Crona is used to, and thus something, perhaps the only thing that Crona DOES know how to deal with), in order to please Medusa, which is Crona's goal. Later, after Crona's Face–Heel Turn, Ragnarok instagates (or trys to) a Slap-Slap-Kiss relationship between Crona and Maka, whom Crona seems to have feelings for. He thus acts as the aggressive Id to Crona's passive Superego. He later protects Maka from Grinko (after extorting an unlimited amount of candy from her). While this seems self-centered (and may partial be so) it also demonstrates to Crona that he is not useless, and can be of value to Maka and Crona's other friends, in an attempt to negate the feelings of worthlessness Crona recieved from Medusa.
Between Spirit's skill and concern for Stein, and Stein using his Weapon as a test subject, Shinigami could keep a handle on a very effective meister who could cause untold damage if he ended up taking his abilities and intellect elsewhere.
Thus, Spirit was something of a Morality Chain for Stein, and as such was not as effective in dealing with him as Marie has been, simply because she accepted him rather than tried to actively hold him back by taking him to task for breaking the rules.
Spirit knows what Shinigami needed him for, and what it meant for him, but he doesn't like to think of it like that. So perhaps he ignored the scars he 'didn't remember getting' until someone else pointed them out.
- Could be even nastier in light of ch108: if Shinigami is willing to create Asura and Kid, then simply allowing a human to take on a fellow student as a guinea-pig for various experiments would be nothing.
- Excalibur mentions that once he was in love with a woman, but she left him...Ragnarok may be their son!
- His last name is more likely to be "Barret", as he was adopted by Sid Barret. Also, I think that Black*Star is just a Code Name, since we already know Soul Eater is Evans' codename.
- Whilst what he did for Soul was cool, the guy wasn't in the best of states for a while afterwards. And Crona not only has black blood, but Marie and her healing wavelength were present.
- It should also be noted that an intervention of a professional medic in a proper facility would probably save many lost anime lives, even if that medic would not be as extraordinary as Dr. Stein.
Kid does have the Madness of Order, and no one who's insane seems to really be capable of love Nygus did say that Stein wasn't capable of love, Stein told Medusa himself that people like him and her were incapable of love, and with the anime exception Arachne doesn't seem very loving either.
- Asexuality is a lack of sexual desire, not 'love' in broader emotional sense, which is what you're also referring to. Kid lacking any current romantic tension with any of the cast doesn't mean he lacks the emotional capacity to possess it at some point; he's young, he's not generally the over-emotional sort (barring the obvious triggers and unusual situations), so his lack of interest in anyone in an romantic or sexual sense can't really be taken to be any indication of his sexuality.
- Medusa is a Complete Monster and manipulator who would and does say anything to get what she wants, so her claims are suspect. Stein claims to agree with her, and indeed his colleagues are suspicious of his behaviour, but they also support him in his bid to clear his name and Stein's obstinate Heroic Willpower and use of the Power of Friendship (he tells Spirit that, essentially, that's why he's not giving in to the Madness) show that whatever his stance of sexual desire (again, what 'asexual' refers to) he is capable of caring about others.
- I always thought that the Death Scythes' all had basic powers, like form manipulation, plus specific powers like Soul using Arachne's webs that they gain from eating a witch's soul.
- In other words, all guys need is breasts and asses that are like whipped pudding!
- Also, the Envy chapter reveals that Maka is jealous of other girls who can connect with Soul in places she can't (music), that she spent hours reading every book she could find about music to try and understand it, and that she worries that he'd be better with another female meister. That's definitely not something you feel for a brother or Platonic Life Partner.
- Maka forgives Crona easily for what zhe did to Soul despite later saying that she would never forgive Medusa for what she did to Crona.
- And Medusa uses this to her advantage by giving Maka no other choice than for them to team up to save Crona. Later when this is revealed to be a lie, the two of them have this little exchange.
Maka: "Where is Crona?!"Medusa: "Give it up. The Crona you know no longer exists... I have no intention of surrendering my child to you."Maka: "Why you..! What's that supposed to mean?!!"*Medusa leaves and Maka is clearly upset over what happened and her failure at finding Crona* - Although eariler, when Maka found out that Crona still had connections with Medusa, she was confused at what she was supposed to do. She knew she couldn't turn hir in because she was scared for thier safety."But if I tell Shinigami-sama and the others... will Crona be expelled? There might be an even worse punishment in store..."
- And when Crona found out that Maka had seen hir, they too were upset and became eeriely quiet. Its possible that the revelation that Maka had seen hir was what ultimately caused Crona to leave.
- When Crona loses hir memories, its clear that they don't remember ANYONE. That was until Black Star mentioned Maka and right after that, Crona began to start mentioning Shibusen and the other students BY NAME. But the moment zhe rejects Black Star's comment about Maka and rejects that zhe knows Maka, they forget everything.
- This point comes up again later when Crona remembers Maka again in chapter 83, but it didn't take anyone mentioning Maka. It was hir own flashback then and it seemed to calm Crona down for a moment... until zhe rejected the memory and used Mad Blood.
- And it comes up once more in chapter 87 when Crona remembers Maka as zhe is killing Medusa. This moment can even be cited as a 'love confession' or them explaining how Maka felt about hir.
"But that's unfair mother.. Because you made me throw away the only one who ever loved me." - This point comes up again later when Crona remembers Maka again in chapter 83, but it didn't take anyone mentioning Maka. It was hir own flashback then and it seemed to calm Crona down for a moment... until zhe rejected the memory and used Mad Blood.
- It should also be noted that after Crona disappeared and Maka realized that Medusa had lied to her, she never stopped thinking about Crona nor searching for hir. This leads to a long Cat and Mouse race with Crona ending up somewhere and Maka trying to follow behind. Russia is a good topic there. Maka had been so surprised to hear of Crona's whereabouts and had hurried over to Russia.
- When she found the Black Blood spheres, she was visably distressed by them. It proved that Crona was on the path to become a Kishin again and she began to cry. When later she got word of Crona in Ukraine, she hurried over there, not once looking back.
- Granted, we don't know what happened after that thanks to the skip in chapter 88. (Hopefully a flashback would be seen next time.)
- Not necessarily true; Maka never lets herself be distracted from the mission at hand. Crona isn't the only thing on her mind. Crona saying that Maka is 'the only one who ever loved [hir]' is Crona's interpretation and does not necessarily mean that either one is in love with the other. It's heavily implied that those who are insane can't comprehend or feel love. Maka is overprotective of Crona, but she wouldn't act any differently if it were Soul or even Tsubaki who went missing. She's a very loyal friend.
- Maka would never get herself distracted from a mission, but there's no denying she wasn't thinking of Crona. It's very true that any of them would do the same for each other, but it seems that Crona is Maka's main focus, as the others relay finding Crona or the mentions of Crona as Maka's friend or how zhe hurt Maka by leaving. As for the insane unable to comprehend love, it doesn't mean they can't feel love. As Stein shows in Chapter 40 when comforting Marie, and in Episode 48, Asura kills Arachne because of his love for her and Asura didn't want to be weak like he had just defined Lord Death as. They can feel love, they just react differently. This is why I think Crona's speech while killing Medusa in Chapter 87 seemed odd at first, I think it shows the disconnect of Maka and the one zhe loves in a subconscious effort to protect her from when zhe may turn into a kishin.
"And yet that's unfair, Mother... Because you made me throw away the only one who loved me. You're fucking kidding me; I'm the only one who lives with an old bat like you. I threw away even Maka.- ...and after Soul was attacked by Crona, all Maka thought about was Soul. I just don't find her obsession with Crona that much different. In truth, I think both are canon. She loves all of her friends, but shows it in different ways. She just can't treat Crona the same way she treats Soul or Black*Star because Crona's already been abused enough. She can't even hit Ragnarok without him having a panic attack.
- When she found the Black Blood spheres, she was visably distressed by them. It proved that Crona was on the path to become a Kishin again and she began to cry. When later she got word of Crona in Ukraine, she hurried over there, not once looking back.
- But in chapter 88, Maka is distressed by the news she gets. Crona had ended up on Shinigami-sama's list and had to be excuted by HER and Spartoi.
- The Lust chapter of the Book of Eibon has been stated to make the person who is in it look and act like who they are attracted to. Maka is listed as a 'Solemn looking young man' and the others make a point to say she hasn't changed at all and is still as feminine as ever. She appears to have grown in height as well (Her arms and legs are longer too giving her the look of being a lot skinnier). Her attitude is very quiet and moody and she never smiles once when she has that personality. Such can be seen as quite like Crona...
- Soul is also very quiet and moody, especially in comparison to Black*Star and even Kid. He hardly ever smiles, except around Maka. Her relationship with Soul is very clearly reversed in this chapter; she is usually yelling at soul while he remains quiet and moody, often mocking her as she criticizes him. Here, female!Soul chastises Maka while male!Maka simply sits there and comments on how creepy girl!Soul is. Maka also very clearly is a boy in the lust chapter...her gender in that chapter is not ambiguous. And by not having changed at all, they were merely mocking her for being flat. Maka looked angry, Crona usually looks depressed.
- Actually, look up the word moody before you say it's different. I thought it would be quite obvious that Crona is moody, and s/he is most definitely a solemn person. Google is your friend when looking up information. Ambiguity may be in the eyes of the beholder, as it seemed to me that the joke of her not changing in appearance hinted at it, though I didn't take note of it until you just mentioned it. Though that isn't even a point I'd make about Maka being attracted to Crona, as ambiguity most likely wouldn't be a deciding factor on who you are attracted to. As for Soul, he didn't very much look like Maka or act like her except for when he mocked her, and Maka saying it's creepy doesn't really fit with Soul's temperament either. Just because they were in the forms of what they are attracted to doesn't mean that they didn't act like they usually would, as Soul usually does mock Maka, hence the comment on how it's creepy when he's a girl.
- Everyone is going to see what they want to see. In truth, I don't think anyone changed appearances to signal what they found attractive. For example, female!Black*Star looks like...Black*Star, with boobs. But if you wanted to you could say that Patti's deranged junkie look was a cross between Black*Star and Crona, and Liz's male appearance looked like Girico. I'll agree to disagree...however, the connotation behind moody is angry. The connotation behind gloomy is depressed.
- Very true about the viewing of Lust chapter. We can all see it in different ways, and since nothing is actually canon it's okay for us to see it differently. That is why we're on the WMG for it, is it not? As for moody, I have always known it as and read it as and learned it as an emotion ranging from sad to angry, and I agree it fits with Soul, but it also does for Crona. Though, I'm thinking that the Lust chapter has nothing to do with shippings, and we both are reading too much into it, sorry for that. It does seem that it should only change your gender, so maybe the Lust chapter is just showing them as the opposite sex and how they would act if they were the opposite sex of themselves, after reading Index's explanation it seems to be just that.
"This chapter is the chapter of "Lust"... It's no mystery that your sex should change to the opposite one, according to what interests and entices you with regards to the opposite sex."- Sorry for the argument mon ami/m'amie. And I'm actually beginning to think the Index just said that last part to mess with their heads...
- Problem with all these arguments is that it they don't have any romantic undertones. If anything Maka seems to be a Cool Big Sis to Chrona, and Chrona's attachment to Maka is quite possibly because Maka was the first person to ever show hir kindness. Also, I don't think that Chrona's ready for a romantic relationship—zhe was abused, experimented on, and who knows what else by Medusa for hir whole life. Zhe started to get better at Shibusen, but even then zhe only came out of hir shell a little, and the recent chapters have shown that zhe's gotten a lot worse. It would take years to recover from that kind of mental and emotional scarring before zhe could even think of having a romantic relationship. Anything else before then could and probably would be considered taking advantage of Chrona.
- Soul is also very quiet and moody, especially in comparison to Black*Star and even Kid. He hardly ever smiles, except around Maka. Her relationship with Soul is very clearly reversed in this chapter; she is usually yelling at soul while he remains quiet and moody, often mocking her as she criticizes him. Here, female!Soul chastises Maka while male!Maka simply sits there and comments on how creepy girl!Soul is. Maka also very clearly is a boy in the lust chapter...her gender in that chapter is not ambiguous. And by not having changed at all, they were merely mocking her for being flat. Maka looked angry, Crona usually looks depressed.
- I believe that the "love" that Chrona has for Maka, and vice-versa, is more "motherly" love than actual romantic love. Think about it, Chrona needs someone who would love and care for him/her the way Medusa never did, the love of a mother and as of now that person is Maka, who seems to feel obligated to do just that.
- This WMG, and the two above it, are currently jossed. These pairings flat out are not canon. They may become canon, but they aren't yet. It isn't canon until it is proven in the manga. Until then, it remains solely in the realm of speculation. (Incidentaly, I support Soulx Maka, so don't try and flame me. I'm talking about the definition of canon, not the pairings.)
- While I can agree with the substance of your argument, allow me to be pedantic about one thing - Jossed means something has been disproven by canon (or Word of God), something that isn't proven one way or the other is not jossed.
- Wasn't that what the GOO claimed was the reason for Kid's creation? If not, I second this WMG because it fits well: Death still has the 'madness' it's just in a less dangerous form at the moment. Kid has the order compulsion, but not the sheer power to inflict it upon everything he pleases, and he can 'ignore' it on occasion. Similarly Death retains his power (comparatively) but is not entirely without order; look at the state of Shibusen, or simply his reaction to Asura.
- We'll get an Excalibur episode starring Mifune. Because that would be funny.
- Except Soul changed his name from Soul Evans to Soul Eater. The theory is still there though.
- Kami isn't Maka's mom's real name. It's just a LARGE fan mistranslation that ended up being spread around as Canon. 'Kami-san' is one of the things that husbands can call their wives (for more information, see here). Spirit called Maka's mom 'moto-kami-san', which roughly translates to 'my ex-wife'.
With the amount of power they seem to have accumulated killing a death scythe and wiping out an entire town not to mention the personality changes that may well have come about from doing that and killing Medusa it wouldn't be surprising if Maka actually picked up Chrona's wavelength but mistook it for the Kisin's because of their increase in power.
- This would be somewhat plausible, but Crona's already been revealed to be in the Santa Maria Novella Basilica...
- Don't know what Simon does, but... Crona works things out for hirself - though Maka's presence helped with the MacGuffin - and does manage (barring a turnaround in ch113) to seal Asura. Crona confronts fear...and deals with it. Maybe not Gurren Lagann-style badass (that would be hitting things, right?), but certainly awesome.
- How about this? Medusa is dead, but she somehow placed her soul inside Crona so she can actually see her plans come to fruition. After all, she did seem eager to do it. Ever since she fought Justin and Tezca, she knew Crona would be the death of her, but even though she may be legally dead, there are still other people who've lived on after being killed (Tezca for example). It's unlikely she'd be controlling Crona directly, but just watching.
- One theory about how she did it; the same way she did the first time. That is, that on both occasions Medusa used the 'madness' unleashed by Asura's resurrection in the first instance, and her own death by Crona's hand in the second, to allow her soul to survive the destruction of her current body. It's clear that Medusa thrives on this sort of chaos...perhaps she literally lives by it. And if that is her method, then perhaps even the second Body Surf into Arachne's body counts, as Arachne also tried to make herself into a 'kishin'. Which would be even better, because Medusa would have basically told her sister how she was going to kill her. She did claim that she couldn't pull off the same trick twice. Unless, of course, the circumstances were replicated...
- Nice idea, as it would mean it had a later comparison in Maka's own 'black blood dress/armour'. Though since he's twice defended Maka from Crona Spirit could and still can damage the black blood on his own (stabbing Crona through the chest on the first occasion, blocking an attack on the second).
His Ex-wife however, is oblivious to this and just sees him being an unfaithful lout when in reality she is the most important person in the world to him, with Maka being second. This troper personally hopes that when she-who-has-yet-to-be-seen makes an appearance, maybe there will be some reconciliation between them.
- *Sniff*
- Or it's both. He is a childish womaniser, but his separation from his wife, estrangement from his daughter and...weird relationships with his colleagues (and casual 'acquaintances' who turn out to be witches) mean Spirit is also a lonely chap. He very, very occasionally appears rather more miserable than his daft antics would suggest (trying to talk to Maka, observing her missions, dealing with Shinigami and Stein for e.g).
- Wonder what they would look/act like...
- Alternate theory: Instead of Chaos, there was a flavor for despair.
- Eibon owns it, seems to never age, and possesses incredible knowledge on everything on earth, detailed in his book (The TARDIS's library?!), implying he's a future incarnation of the Doctor, or maybe another timelord entirely...?
- It's bigger on the inside.
- Death is generally feared when he's angry, never ages, and is both loyal a damn good ally, making him the Doctor.
- Asura never ages, is a major villain, and is associated with both Death and Eibon, making him the Master.
- The other people in the Grand Eight (or whatever they're called, Death's inner council) would be the High Council of Gallifrey.
- This makes the fiery place in the background whenever they're shown not Hell but Gallifrey.
- The sky of Gallifrey IS similar in color to the background: brown-orange to red.
- The author of this thread is Steven Moffat.
- There's not any proof that the shows are in alternate universes.
- And even if there is proof, there may be alternate Doctors.
- One can only hope~~
- And even if there is proof, there may be alternate Doctors.
- Death is a god ,or Death-god, or a Shinigami. Everyone knows that Shinigami love apples. The Tenth Doctor loved apples.
- A fight that will turn into a domestic row when Spirit has a go at his ex-wife for abandoning their teenage daughter for no good reason (that we know of).
- Even Death the Kid and Spirit/Stein?
- That's not even the worst of it: Liz and Patti can act as each other's meister, and Spirit is Shinigami's Weapon.
- Not all of them are that close. Some are able to work with others in spite of their relationship. Tsubaki can work with any meister, and Stein with any Weapon he finds interesting (hence using Spirit as a 'test subject'). Also if Spirit is to be believed, Maka can act as his meister because they're father and daughter.
- Tsubaki can work with any meister, because she's been proven to be really perverted. Stein is not that omnivorous, but if he's interested, he's interested. See, it all adds up! (Though we can safely assume family bonds are fine too, hence Maka working with Spirit.)
- Mommy stays away because all Maka wants to talk about is Daddy, Daddy, Daddy.
- Technically there was nothing to suggest that pre-Shibosen!Shinigami was bad (while he sounds pretty badass, his job was still protecting humans); it's entirely possible that all that changed was how he presented himself to humans, making the point moot.
- Noted. He was more...fierce but, it seems for the moment, still protecting humans as you point out. Either he was bad and changed, or wasn't that 'bad' to begin with and became nicer as the Shibusen idea required. Then I amend my point to simply the question of whether Kid's personality will change (in any way) as a result of taking on both Asura and Shinigami's souls.
- Maka is going to survive one way or another (the alternative seems unlikely). So, on that basis, two points. One, Crona lost control to Asura because ze was confronted by the bond between Maka and Spirit. Granted, nothing can bring back the bond Crona broke, but that doesn't mean Crona is entirely without platonic/familial bonds in another sense; primarily Maka. There's hope yet, for both of them. Two, and this doesn't exactly help, doesn't the black blood seem to shield people from damage rather than aid healing (you heal quicker because you suffered less damage in the first place)? Either way, the basic idea of Crona somehow returning the favour to Maka (matching soul wavelengths, finding her when she is somehow unreachable) is very fitting given their relationship. Crona saves Maka and zhirself.
Alternatively, Lord Death is a much bigger dick than we give him credit for.
- Apparently confirmed in Ch 112 Crona says that Asura - being 'fear' - cannot be killed (even as Maka protests otherwise), and decides to imprison the Kishin using Brew and hir own black blood. Which, incidentally, means Asura is being re-imprisoned by the very thing which freed in him the first place, and gave 'power' and freedom of a kind to those who opposed him.
- Knowing Medusa, she probably seduced him with mind altering chemicals/magic. If that's the case, then Crona would be a Child by Rape.
- Running with your theory I wonder if this could explain how Ragnarok and Crona could work together. We know their 'resonance' is one of madness and fear, not the usual kind used by other pairs, but later chapters claim that parents and children can work together naturally. It would have given Crona and Ragnarok's earliest 'experiments' an advantage if they did have some compatibility to fall back on. That being said, Medusa wanted to sever Crona from any familial/personal relation that wasn't Medusa herself, so may be a bit counter-intuitive to imagine her wanting any positive connection between her hybrid Meister/Weapon creation. On the other (other?) hand, it's not unknown for her to manipulate such things (see also Maka and Soul).
- I think ch42 (or whichever that hallucination/Mind Rape was in) stands well on its own as one of the more disturbing scenes in the series; simple yet shocking. However, given who is involved, you could have a point (and a possibly a nod to how they might be saved). And either way I can kind of see Black*Star dying of his injuries after running on Heroic Resolve (or similar) for the past couple of chapters. He does finally agree he's human, after all. Shame if he did die, I've finally come round to not despising the guy.
- Canonically, Chrona's personal madness initially manifested as the Madness born of Breasts—but that this was specifically because of their desire for a mother figure. Perhaps like how Kid's symmetry obsession is a small part of the Madness born of Order, Chrona will actually embody the Madness born of Love/Codependence.