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WMG / Scooby-Doo! and the Curse of the 13th Ghost

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Scrappy is in the film.
So what if he wasn't in the trailer? This was the exact same stunt they pulled with the DVD release of 13 Ghosts, and the VHS release of the Super Stars 10 movies, and guess who was in there? Warner Bros. and Cartoon Network have eased up a lot in their jabs at Scrappy, even granting him a positive cameo in Scoobynatural, combined with releasing Scooby-Doo and Scrappy-Doo to DVD in 2015. They're probably just keeping him secret so that his massively obnoxious Hate Dumb doesn't give the movie bad publicity before it comes out.I mean, just think about it-he's been given a major role in Scooby Apocalypse, CN is actually treating him OK for once, and now out comes this film of a franchise with Scrappy, in the show where some of his haters are actually OK with him, is getting this big rerelease. I would personally be much more surprised if he wasn't in this somewhere. OK, now as for Scrappy's role in the plot: Contrary to popular belief, Scrappy's role of villainy actually wasn't unanimously well recieved-in fact it upset enough kids that James Gunn, who despises Scrappy, acknowledged their opinions and apologized for upsetting them. So honestly, after all this slow reintegration of Scrappy, I'd say that Warner Bros would be grabbing a massive, massive Idiot Ball to do a repeat of the live action movie. This troper sincerely hopes that this is the case, and she will accomodate her WMG as such. Now it could be they're just going for another cameo like in Scoobynatural, but come on. This is too big of an oppurtunity.'Now this troper is thinking (read: hoping) that Scrappy will have a main role, and comfortably feels she can believe this based on the above. Now what will Scrappy's role be? Well, I think it would be very difficult to hide Scrappy from the yard sale shots, so I don't think he'll be with the gang from the get go.So if Scrappy's in this movie, what will happen to him? Why did they stop looking for such dangerous creatures? ('Cause remember guys, these things, they were dangerous. Like we're talking destroy the world as we know it dangerous. Why would you just give up?) And remember, there were only eleven ghosts caught when 13 Ghosts was Cancelled. What happened to the twelfth ghost?Here's what I think, a theory that explains why Shaggy and Daphne ceased the hunt for such dangerous demons, what happened to the twelth ghost and what role Scrappy will play.
  • I believe that, during the hunt for the twelfth ghost, something went wrong. Very wrong. Something bad happened to Scrappy. Maybe he died, or it looked like he died, maybe he got sucked into the chest, maybe the twelfth ghost trapped Scrappy in limbo, or he got cursed somehow. Maybe the ghost possessed Scrappy and they couldn't figure out how to get the ghost out of Scrappy, (Another thing haters like to forget: Scrappy had super strength. If a malevolent being possessed him, he could do A LOT of damage. So they had to choose between keeping him out and letting possessed!Scappy wreak havoc, or contain the demon but seal Scrappy in as well.
    • In the preview Daphne mentions that the events of 13 Ghosts drove Scooby to the brink of a nervous breakdown, perhaps something truly did happen to his nephew to drive him to such a state.
  • Now what a lot of people like to forget, is that Scrappy was a well liked member of the gang before the Hate Dumb projected their own opinions upon him through the gang. Losing him would definitely put a damper on the team spirits. They would be heartbroken, terrified that something could happen to their own, they wouldn't want to do it any longer. It might be enough. Whatever reason, perhaps it will end with them saving Scrappy. Perhaps not. But remember this: They said that it would be solved "In a reveal that would put the mystery to rest once and for all." Scrappy coming back? THAT would be a pretty big reveal.
  • New idea being circulated, because Flim Flam has aged, Scrappy is coming back as grown up great dane. He'll make his return in a scene to save Scooby and Shaggy.
    • One of the preview clips has a conversation that mentions Flim Flam was a "little huckster" when he was involved in the 13 Ghosts series. So on this logic if Scrappy is in it, he should be aged now too.
  • Jossed, but he is acknowledged by Flim Flam, while Velma oddly doesn't seem to know who he is.

The Ship Captain will be retconned officially as a Demon Chest Ghost
A debate long in the tooth of the series was whether he counted or not. We assumed the cyclone creature is another gestalt form like they took in the first episode but since he got sucked into it, he got boxed with them too. This film will probably give proof of this or turn the cyclone creature into a separate ghost.
  • A tweet from the film's writer mentions he got to his count of 12 with Ship of Ghouls, so this seems very much likely.
  • There is no direct confirmation of this in the film itself however but he's the only real candidate in the Ship of Ghouls episode that seems to fit given the cyclone was just another gestalt form.

The thirteenth ghost will release his fellow spirits from the chest
The primary end battle of the film will see them all briefly return only for the gang to battle them back, and maybe with some unexpected help.
  • This may be saved for a future film, if there's any truth to speculation there will be further crossovers and returns within the DTV-s re-releasing the Demon Chest ghosts is one of the biggest threats there is in the catalog.
  • Velma makes a strange remark in one the previews. Telling Flim Flam that "someone is going to release 13 of the most terrifying ghosts on the face on the Earth". While this is a clever Mythology Gag, the movie has been sold as the gang going to box the 13th ghost. How exactly can someone be threatening to do that if one is running free already? It doesn't make sense to phrase it that way if Asmodeus is just trying to release his fellow ghosts either. Perhaps if Asmodeus himself doesn't do it, someone else is going to try it before the movie ends. Of course either way it's not to say we're never going to see the chest of demons again after this movie either.
    • This plot element was used but only in a fakeout. The Velma line appears to be a blatant error on her part.

The scene in the trailer with a filter will be a flashback to how the ghosts were caught
They'll give us an new retcon origin to end thoughts on when and how they were caught whether together or separate.
  • This seems confirmed by one of the preview scenes having Vincent Van Ghoul have a conversation with the demon Asmodeus that implies he's responsible for Vincent losing a previously unknown best friend.
  • Zig-Zagged. We do see a flashback involving Vincent capturing the last ghost which he believes costs Mortifer his life. But there is another flashback revealing the ghosts had already been caught in the past until Vincent let them out.

Spinning off that, Asmodeus IS Mortimer
It's a case of That Man Is Dead. As Mortimer, Vincent and the 13th Ghost were close friends and warlocks until Mortimer somehow turned evil and became Asmodeus, king of the demons. He's been Vincent's dark secret that his former best friend was locked away in the chest of demons. This is why Vincent makes mention "he found me" on the crystal ball and why Asmodeus knows how to give Vincent wizard's block.

The gang will be separated at some point
If you look closely, you'll noticed that in all of Flim-Flam's scenes, only Fred and Velma are in the same shot. This would most likely be used as a device to organically introduce the two to Flim-Flam.
  • This also seems confirmed however one clip shows that Freddy and Velma will at least hear of Flim Flam's existence before actually meeting him. Whether or not they immediately know him or whether he knows they know Shaggy, Scooby and Daphne isn't certain.
  • Confirmed.

The Chest of the Demons belongs to the 13th ghost
This is why he and the chest have the same face. Perhaps he's the leader of the ghosts.
  • One of the preview clips has Van Ghoul call Asmodeus the "King of the Demons" so looks to at least be have right if not all right.
  • Jossed sort of. The chest doesn't really appear to have been his as much as maybe Solomon or his servants chose to design he lid based on the Biggest one.

Bogel and Weerd will appear and have a Heel–Face Turn
If they're finally ending the series, it wouldn't make sense to have the show's recurring villains/the ghosts responsible for tricking Shaggy and Scooby into opening the Chest in the first place not appear at all. Perhaps they'll try to work for the 13th ghost, but due to them being as useful as Scratch and Grounder he'll constantly berate them until they decide to end up helping the heroes in a case of Mistreatment-Induced Betrayal.
  • Bonus points if they turn out to be surprisingly competent as good guys after the turn.
  • Jossed both do not appear nor are referenced.

Scrappy Doo will be getting a taste of his own medicine.
When the gang goes to get Scrappy they will meet a puppy charging off yelling Puppy Power, followed by a great dane trying to keep the puppy under control. The Great Dane will be Scrappy Doo as an adult and the pup's uncle.
  • Jossed, no Scrappy return happeend here but he was mentioned.

They'll Lampshade Flim-Flame's Age Lift.
"How come I got older but you guys didn't?"
"Like, that's a good question."
  • Not as per word, but he lampshades he was do for a growth spurt.

There will be some kind of twist ending that possibly leads into a future production
After this case is solved someone or something else from the past will show up and Scooby can lampshade "Here we go again" as the credits drop.
  • Technically no there wasn't any of that but there was plenty of ambiguity to whether the 13th ghost was redeemed or not. Then again with skeptism by Velma. It should be said though every question wasn't answered definitively if that ever returns in another movie this WMG might be correct then, otherwise then no.

The title sequence will depict the gang being menaced by the previous 12 ghosts.
The ghosts will also appear in the order they were recaptured in the original series, with Maldor the Malevolent threatening Scooby and friends at the start of the opening and Zimbulu trying to scare our heroes at the end of the sequence.
  • The credits sequence dont go the full yard with this but Vincent recites a poem tossing in lots of references to them.

The person who was innocent that sues Mystery Inc at the beginning is Red Herring
In a movie with so many Mythology Gags this one would be absolutely perfect.
  • Jossed. The wrongly accused suspect is Farmer Morgan.

     Post Release 

The first twelve ghosts caught in the series...
...were truly all illusions cast by Mortifer as part of his "Scooby-Doo" Hoax to trick Vincent and the gang. Except for Bogel and Weerd, who actually were genuine ghosts. Seeing as how they actually believed the story of the chest as well, Mortifer actually counted on them being terrible evil minions, as he was just using them to further his hoax.

Velma and/or Fred are Anti-Magic
It wasn’t Asmodeus that was keeping Vincent from being able to cast spells. That’s why Velma and Fred haven’t encountered a real demon or ghost before

The Goblin King made a goof
When he zapped the memories he took too much out of them and Velma who otherwise had a total breakdown got the worst of it.

The Maybe Magic, Maybe Mundane ending was done as a Sequel Hook
The people who made the film probably foresaw that the original show had concepts that were too good to say goodbye to after just one movie, so they left it vague on whether or not there were genuine supernatural elements involved to set up another movie where the gang deal with real monsters instead of just disguised criminals.
  • I'm thinking based on Tim Sheridan's interview that on WB's side they wanted the movie to have two explanations one being supernatural and one being rational. However I think it was Sheridan (and the little Jim Krieg on his shoulder) who choose to make the supernatural explanation one they could easily retcon as "Oh Velma got it wrong" should they get to make another movie. If they don't we have a nice explanation about Asmodeus reformed to close the plot. If they do we have the reason for the plot already set as "now here's the real demon". It's a neat way to tie up both scenarios after the Executive Meddling.
  • Return to Zombie Island just let a cat person if not the cat god get away uncaptured as well. Same gimmick too with Velma denying it and the entire past adventure with a flimsy explanation. The rest of the gang thinking she's gone nuts. While there may be some Executive Meddling involved, they also didn't get the Mystery Machine back. I'm thinking it's looking like WB intends to take this series in some kind of direction going forward. There's no way they'd leave two things like that unresolved back to back without having some idea in their heads to come back to them.

Asmodeus has been screwing with them the whole movie
When Vincent tells the story of Asamad Van Ghoul he says he was one of the most powerful sorcerer's in the world and that he bent other mens will to his own. This is what got him in the chest of demons in the first place. His character is all about messing with people's heads. For what we've been told of him, he would very easily construct a fantasy explanation as to why they shouldn't bother about locking him up again. Oh look he's a happy ghost now, see he learned my lesson. That's all a ploy and it was his intention this entire time. Now nobody is going to be expecting whatever his next move is.

The real Asmodeus is what grabbed Fred and Velma in the fog
The appearance after the avalanche was in a cloud of smoke. Fred and Velma were yanked up into a cloud of fog. He did it and used those mental powers of his to warp Velma's mind. So she could unmask Mortifer and give an explanation as to why Asmodeus was no longer an issue. But the experience caused her too much that she legitimately forgot some simple things like the number of ghosts to be freed and the existence of Scrappy Doo.

Scoobynatural was written AFTER this film was written
A few things about Tim Sheridan's interview bugged me in relation to Supernatural S13 E16 "ScoobyNatural". But then I rethought about how long production begins on these movies and then realized a few things make more sense in this version.
  • WB executives didn't want explicit magic in this movie, Scoobynatural has explicit ghosts
  • WB wanted Velma to have a rational explanation in this movie, she has one in Scoobynatural but the viewer knows it isn't the truth (ala the Kiss movie)
  • Tim Sheridan couldn't figure out a way to put Scrappy in that script, Scrappy cameos in Scoobynatural
    • I think Scoobynatural was an exercise to convince WB executives they could handle including explicit Supernatural elements again. And Scooby Doo and Guess Who then featured an explicit supernatural Funky Phantom. I think it paid off, but remains a question where Return to Zombie Island was written before or after Scoobynatural.
      • Except Scoobynatural was explicitly about how explicit supernatural things don’t belong in Scooby Doo. The ghost was changing the episode by it’s presence and at the end they had to get the ghost to essentially retcon itself out of Scooby canon in order for the gang to continue
      • I think it's more it was a work in progress. From what we gather this executive is anti any supernatural elements not being given an explanation. You could see Scoobynatural's plot as confirming those views and it's existence as going against that view. Since these movies though it's pretty clear that executive's views aren't winning anymore. (if they are even still there)
    • I'm not entirely sure about this. At 13:15 in this 2019 Comic Con video, Jim Krieg & Jeremy Adams mentioned how the crossover was initially conceived as a DVD movie, and given the amount of time it takes to create a live action/animation crossover, it was most likely conceived before this movie and Return To Zombie Island were written. However, Jim Krieg did co-produce both movies, and Jeremy Adams wrote the latter, so maybe they did try incorporating more explicit supernatural elements, albeit through the long term.
    • WB DTV movies are usually written somewhere in between a year and a half to two years before they are released. Which is something several writers of Scooby and DC movies have joked about that they write it and then have to wait long periods before they can talk about them. Whether everything is written in the order they physically come out in, is a big 50/50. I don't think anyone in the WB writers bubble has ever really officially commented on that whether it comes from the Scooby side, DC side or other sides. (Writing the script is the first step in production there).
    • The idea that Scoobynatural was at one point on the DTV schedule does explain why the 50th anniversary ones were still on track despite the change in plans the altering of Curse of the Speed Demon brought on the schedule.

Mortifer wasn't Asmodeus in the entire movie
While I previously agreed with the interpretation the real Asmodeus stopped Mortifer from escaping I noticed something odd in re-watching the film that made me rethink something. Throughout most of the film Asmodeus tends to fly with his wings even in the tight spaces of the temple. However when we return after Vincent sends Scooby, Shaggy and Daphne outside Asmodeus NEVER flies. In fact when he has the chest and could easily fly away he still just runs. If Mortifer's costume was capable of flight why would he just run like a man in a costume? He'd been flying all throughout the movie. What changed?

I'd like to throw yet another idea into the mix. The real Asmodeus did come after Vincent and stop his magic and this is what made Mortifer decide now was the time to make his play to steal the chest. He like Vance followed the trail of the chest to the Scooby gang and followed them in his silver car. At the point where Vincent threw the crystal ball at Asmodeus was when Asmodeus retreated and Mortifer took his place to try to steal the chest. After Mortifer was caught and tried to escape Asmodeus stopped him with the avalanche and then casting an illusion to make Vincent think he reformed. Tying into the above if he was a great sorcerer who liked to bend other people's will to do what he wanted, this should be something he would do. Now he's free to go after the chest when no one will expect it.

Scrappy Doo was Flim-Flam's imaginary friend in this version
Hence explaining why he remembers him with fondness, but nobody else does.

The movie is correct, but we're seeing it through Scrappy's eyes in the form of some sort of dream, as he was injured or otherwise compromised as the last ghost was captured.
The last ghost, by the way, was Vincent Van Ghoul. Scrappy was still reeling with shock at thebetrayal of their so-called friend, so he consciously revised it to be Vincent's Identical Ancestor Asomad Van Ghoul. Scrappy always had a bit of an inferiority/superiority complex in the series, or he had some identity amnesia that comes from being in a dream. Placing himself in Vincent's shoes to figure out what happened, Scrappy gives us his twisted reminiscence, removing himself through aforementioned complex/dream identity amnesia, with Mortifer's capture representing Scrappy's distress at realizing he'd been tricked. Vincent Van Ghoul's powerlessness symbolizes how Scrappy is powerless to wake up until he comes to terms with the fact that Mortifer and the Vincent Van Ghoul they'd been with had always been a front. Fred and Velma's role in the story were ust bits and tidbits fulfilled by one of the gang or a random extra with a big impact on the story. Fred's reactions towards Daphne's more active role as a leader could be a hint that the series is dreamt up by someone in the year of 1985, it's a cute reference to Daphne's character developement and other fans, but from a general perspective it seems on a whole like the gang may have encountered some people who were less then pleased with Daphne's progressive place in the gang, which Scrappy was subconsciously recalling. It's the reason why it clearly takes place in the modern era; it's Scrappy's ideal future where his big sister figure is respected for who she is and where there's cool future-tech (And maybe that one short where Scrappy, Scooby, and Shaggy went to the...ummm, 1981's interesting rendition of year of 2000) Velma's skepticism could be Scrappy's mind as a whole wanting to forget the whole horrible thing, but ultimately realizing that unless he moves on from it, he'll be doomed to relive it for the rest of his life, as symbolized by Velma ultimately deciding not to reopen the chest of demons.
tl;dr: Vincent Van Ghoul was the final ghost, but via either Heroic Sacrifice on Scrappy's part or Taking You with Me on Vincent's part, Scrappy got hurt and dreamt up a twisted version of the events which just transpired.

Asmodeus was The Sheriff all along, and also the Cat God
This WMG brought to you by Maxwell Atoms stating Happy Halloween, Scooby-Doo! had an earlier script. What if the original reveal was that the Sheriff was Asmodeus. We know Asmoedeus can shapeshift. He deliberatly tried to get the kids to stop solving mysteries. But what if he was also the Cat God from Scooby-Doo on Zombie Island. Would also explain how he just randomly showed up on Moonscar Island after the Cat God disappeared. Happy Halloween did have a reveal the Sheriff was some guy we never met before.....what if the original plan was to reveal the real 13th ghost had been a recurring bad guy all along to celebrate Scooby's 50th.
  • Timeline wise i guess we could argue Asmodeus was free at the time to be the Cat God who gave Simone and Lena their curse many years ago. But we would then argue he was gone and they never noticed? Or did they just assume he approved of their sacrifices while he was actually not able to comment at all? Then he returned after being set free?
    • He could also have been impersonating the cat god without actually being the cat god.


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