This page deals with Wild Mass Guesses for games and species in the Johto region. For non-game and non-Johto game WMGs, please refer to the appropriate page in the Pokemon WMG Index.
- The Pokédex entries confirm that the tail is the most jealously guarded part of its body. It would also justify why the main "body" can take such a huge amount of damage (it consists primarily of buffer tissue).
- Alternatively (on the huge HP front, not against the true-brain front), Wobbuffet are another form of "balloon" Pokemon, like Wigglytuff, Wailord, and Drifblim. A couple of their Pokédex entries state that Wobbuffet inflate when they counterattack.
- So, they're an independently individual version of the Auditors, minus the genocide?
- "Minus the genocide"? What do you think their true purpose IS?
- So, wait. Since Santa exists... Oh man. That's evil!
- On the other hand...
- "Minus the genocide"? What do you think their true purpose IS?
- So they are truenamers? At least it explains why they suck so much.
- This would actually imply that Unown were the first Pokemon in this universe, and probably created Arceus out of boredom. Then they helped Arceus make the universe. Seems reasonable enough.
- The architect of the above theory proposes some addendum: in the third movie, on indulging the whims of an upset little girl they could create anything she desired. But they're often seen in the company of the creator of the universe... are these the tools of the Gods?
- "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." It makes too much sense not to be intentional somehow.
- So Arceus is essentially the collective consciousness of the Unown?
- Alternately, the Unown are the "thousand arms" of Arceus. The mythology surrounding the creation of the world was merely metaphorical.
- Fridge Horror: If the Unown are part of Arceus, it means that the Team Rocket radio signals likely screwed around with the mind of GOD.
- To back this theory up, if anyone ever had access to the Azure Flute, which was never distributed - when played, this flute allows the holder to access the Hall of Origin where Arceus dwells. The song it plays? It's the electromagnetic song that the Unown broadcast in the ruins of Alph. They are literally the voice of God.
- "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." It makes too much sense not to be intentional somehow.
- Well, it is a Ridiculously Cute Critter.
- This is also helped by the Hidden Abilities of Raikou, Suicune, and Entei (Pre Gen VII) being the same as the normal abilities of Jolteon, Vaporeon and Flareon (Volt Absorb, Water Absorb, and Flash Fire, respectively)
- The Gen 2 prototype has the Legendary Dogs looking far more like Eevees and its version of Celebi is actually an early Leafeon, so there may be some truth in this.
- The fact that their hidden abilities suddenly changed in Gen 7 feels like it josses this a bit, though. If it was meant to be evidence, why would it be changed? And the only beta beast who really resembles an Eeveelution is Suicune, imo.
- Even though Tauros and Miltank appear to be related, why do they look so different, even though most Pokémon have very subtle gender differences? That is because, in ancient times, there were no Miltank, only male and female Tauros. When humans discovered that the milk from female Tauros was good to drink, they started to selectively breed them for two traits — docility and high milk yield. Over hundreds or thousands of years, they gradually took on a cuter appearance. The resulting species looked and behaved so differently from Tauros that it was given its own name, Miltank.
- Once Miltank had been established as a separate species from Tauros, populations of domestic Miltank were made to retain their preferable traits by exclusively reproducing with Ditto. This has been going on for so long that it is the reason why, in the games, Miltank cannot produce Tauros eggs.
- According to its Shield Pokédex entry, a Miltank will become ill if she is not milked every day, which makes no sense for a wild Pokémon, but perfect sense for a Pokémon that has been selectively bred to produce large amounts of milk over many generations.
- And his team in the remakes is all female. Hm...
- I see him as a trans guy.
- What does this say about all those other dudes who look like ladies in this franchise, though?
- Following this line, it would be also likely that Mom is actually the Queen of the country, which makes you a prince/princess.
- So, the royal family of Johto lives in a small house in a non-descript small town?
- Must be some wealthy family, given that Caitlin is actually a member of Unova's Elite Four.
- This is actually much more believable than the in-game explanation.
- Um, Silver is supposed to be around 11, and since the game takes place 3 years later than FRLG, Red would be 14.
- Yes, that's what he's saying. The guy in question is in the Kanto remakes, when Red's eleven and Silver's eight or so. In the sake of fairness, Silver uses the same sprite in the Giovanni event (abuse we see him right after Red beats Giovanni the last time), so maybe he's just mature for his age? Or the guy in question didn't know much about Silver besides his hair color? He would also mistake Leaf for him if you played as her.
- Silver has no stated age, just like everyone else. What I meant was, they mistook a supposed 7 -8 year old for an eleven year old. If he has seen Silver and recalls him well enough, that seems unusual unless Silver is Red and Leaf's age. Taken from that, Lyra and Ethan are Silver's age.
- Actually, several characters do have confirmed ages (Rowan and Cyrus are 60 and 27, respectively), but never mind that. The exact quote that the scientist says is "You... You're not Giovanni's kid, are you? No, that can't be right. Giovanni's kid has red hair." That doesn't really say whether or not he's met or even seen Silver; for all we know he could have just assumed the player character was Giovanni's child who had come looking for his father, and then remembered somebody telling him the kid was a redhead. There's really not enough info to say what exactly the case is, it could just be a continuity error.
- The quote could be referring to the fact Red is frequently mistaken for Ash, and the theory that Giovanni is Ash's father.
- Yes, that's what he's saying. The guy in question is in the Kanto remakes, when Red's eleven and Silver's eight or so. In the sake of fairness, Silver uses the same sprite in the Giovanni event (abuse we see him right after Red beats Giovanni the last time), so maybe he's just mature for his age? Or the guy in question didn't know much about Silver besides his hair color? He would also mistake Leaf for him if you played as her.
This also goes into the matter of your father. Reformed (mostly) now, (or simply not wanting you to get involved for your safety), she's not telling you that your dad is a member of Team Rocket. Now, the boy may not even be hers: regardless of who Mom is, Ethan appears in both games. She may have agreed to raise Giovanni's second kid after it got attached to her, so it wouldn't be subject to his or the mother's emotional abuse.
As for Lyra, she's probably hers, but her father? Maybe the ever-popular yet wicked Proton, who shares her face shape, has a pale skin tone contrasting Mom's, which Lyra is in the middle of, and who no woman in her right mind would want involved with her child.
- Ariana: he was the result of a one night stand, where neither Giovanni nor Ariana had any intent to have a real relationship. Then, Ariana got pregnant. She didn't want the kid, not being very well off, but Giovanni said he would take it and raise it on his own, excited about the prospect of having an heir to his title as Viridian Gym Leader and as the Boss of Team Rocket, while the organization was still in its infancy. So when Silver was born, Giovanni became his legal guardian and Ariana left. Later in her life, Ariana regretted not being a part of her child's life and joined Team Rocket in an attempt to get close to Giovanni and re-enter Silver's life. While she was exceptional at battling and quickly rose up the TR ranks, Giovanni resisted her advances. Later, in GSC and HGSS, she's still attempting to impress him, thinking reviving and leading the new TR would make him interested.
- I believe Ariana is the mother, because "Ariana" means "Silver" in Welsh. I don't think that was an accident... And the hair is more red while Lorelei's is more orange, plus the hairstyle of Ariana resembles Silver more.
- I don't think it was simply a one-night stand. Giovanni felt that Team Rocket may one day need an heir. Due to being good friends, Ariana helped him get his son. They may even be lovers, but their relationship is secret (Giovanni doesn't want to ruin his Villain with Good Publicity angle). Their relationship has likely been soured and broken after Silver left the group.
- With Ariana, I've always thought that it was a sexual-only affair or one-night stand when she was in Team Rocket, maybe a grunt or young admin. They are a mafia, so that wouldn't be much of a stretch.
- This isn't canon? I was always certain Ariana was Silver's mom—same hair color, same hairstyle, and sleeping with the boss for power/money/an heir/really good sex seems to fit her personality. Also, if both his parents were in Team Rocket, he'd be guaranteed to have been raised there (thus explaining his attitude), whereas a single mom would likely have just taken him and ran as far from Rocket as she could.
- Personally, I think that it being an affair or pragmatic relationship is a bit cynical, even for a mafia analog. Even Evil Has Loved Ones, after all; Giovanni treats his son like he actually has Silver's best interest in mind rather than just using him. That said, Ariana being Silver's mother makes sense, considering their shared hair color and style. They also have a similar signature pose, though reversed. Extending off of this, there's another member of the family, too. Mars from Team Galactic has the same style as Silver but with a girlish bob. She has a bit of Silver's attitude as well. Her being a member of Team Galactic parallel's Silver's wild-card status, both having left their father to make their own place in the world rather than join Team Rocket.
- Lorelei: they actually had a relationship, Lorelei being attracted by Giovanni's power and skill as a Gym leader (she probably wasn't E4 yet) and rugged good looks. Giovanni was also impressed by her skill and thought she could make a vital difference in Team Rocket (once again, still a young organization), and perhaps also be a good girlfriend/wife. After Lorelei became preganant with Silver, Giovanni thought it meant he finally had the hook he needed to pull her into Team Rocket, and revealed his plans and intentions to her (as didn't previously know about his TR involvement), hoping it would make her more attracted to him. Needless to say, this backfired; instead, she was disgusted that he was a budding crime lord, and that she had fallen for a man so evil. She left him, and when Silver was born, not wanting the reminder of her involvement with him, she left him on his Gym doorstep. Giovanni took the advantage to start raising a heir to Team Rocket, the son of two great battlers.
- Probably it's because Giovanni is a well-known criminal. He's a dangerous man on the run, and during the Celebi time-traveling event, Ethan or Lyra both know who he is and that he's the Rocket boss on sight.
- ...or your dad is just some random unimportant dude who's dead/divorced/dead-beat.
- ...Dude. It all makes sense now...
- I thought it was just the opposite: They we an ancient pagan cult manipulating you to bring back their god. And they were using you to bring it back, regardless of your safety.
- They're part of an Ancient Tradition worshiping powerful and potentially dangerous beings, but in the least harmful way possible. Lugia or Ho-Oh probably wouldn't hurt a human, at least not in a regulation battle: Ho-Oh is explicitly more about bringing the unjustly and accidentally killed Back from the Dead than about killing a human (see the Legendary Beasts' origin story), and while Lugia's only characterization was in the movie (which happened during a filler arc that lies completely outside the games' canon), we can assume it's not an evil or violent being either, at least not intentionally (it was a different story when Cipher got their hands on it, but let's not go there.) Both are capable of being destructive, as are the Legendary Beasts who tie into their story, but none of them would harm you unless they were cornered. After all, Pokémon is pretty damn idealistic outside of Colosseum and XD. The Kimono Girls want humanity to see Lugia and Ho-Oh again because of the good effects they might have. I think the line in Crystal talked about the hearts of humans and Pokémon communing? And there was that stuff in the Ruins about walking with Pokémon in harmony. They probably believe that Ho-Oh and Lugia will make humans kinder to Pokémon, and possibly to other humans. Remember, HG/SS take place during and just after Diamond, Pearl, and Platinum, as evidenced by Jasmine being back from her trip to Sinnoh when you're in Kanto, which probably happened just after your battle with her but before you went to the Indigo Plateau. The story got out about Cyrus, as Cynthia (a Champion, unlikely to lie) and the remaining Galactic Executive (who could provide secret documents, etc.) had probably told the media about what happened. The Kimono Girls decided the time was right to bring back the Legendary Birds and improve the lives of humanity. After all, we never know when the next Cyrus will emerge, and there won't always be a 10-year-old kid running around who can capture Palkia/Dialga/Giratina... Oh, look, a 10-year-old kid who can probably capture Lugia and Ho-Oh and all three Legendary Beasts!
- I thought it was just the opposite: They we an ancient pagan cult manipulating you to bring back their god. And they were using you to bring it back, regardless of your safety.
- The games have shown both Lugia and Ho-Oh are good Pokémon at heart. Ho-Oh revived the beasts and shows up in Colosseum to stop the big bad from escaping, and Lugia sealed itself away because its power was too dangerous (and ended up corrupted in XD, so that means it can't have been evil to start with).
- Isn't this canon? They do say they were looking for someone who was capable of waking up their version's respective legendary, implying that Ethan/Lyra is worthy due to being both strong and kindhearted. And trusting someone with a good heart to use a legendary sounds a lot like hoping that Ethan/Lyra would use their influence for good.
Tin Tower (where you meet Ho-Oh) features advanced technology in panels. Yet, most of the tower is old and run-down. Why are the floors so complicated and maze-like? To keep the unworthy from reaching the top? Or was it being rebuilt? Did something happen to destroy most of the inside and the monks had to rebuild?
How come there aren't a lot of roads connecting around towns and cities? Take Ecruteak: to the west, bumpy paths and grass. Makes no sense, the way it's designed. To the South, a patch of grass, making people who have no Pokemon unable to get to Ecruteak. Either the Gym Leaders did this (see below), the townspeople became paranoid of other people and isolated themselves by destroying the roads, trade relations broke down, or some horrible natural disaster wiped away the roads and lands.
- Essentially confirmed in Pokemon Origins.
- Jossed: That Max IV's crap is fake. Apparently its IV spread is 000000.
- ... This is a semi-crossover WMG, isn't it?
- ...too soon, man.
- Too soon? When would the first hostile use of a weapon capable of murdering civilization ever be allowed to be taken lightly?! This'll be in bad taste until humanity has ended.
- Wait, I just realised that Slateport City is based of Nagasaki City...where the second atomic bomb was launched. DAMN YOU VICTINI! DAMN YOU!
- Doubtful; from what everyone says, Falkner's dad is dead and Falkner inherited his gym and Pokemon. If Koga were his dad, that wouldn't amke sense.
- Well, yeah. That's exactly what he meant.
- A Valley Girl accent would probably suit her better.
- IIRC, in the remakes, she does say something like "I ain't losing, you hear?" when you get her Miltank low on health. So this could be canon, or at least likely.
- Her main pokemon is a cow, so it's not too hard to imagine her growing up on a farm.
Oh, and they both have a Houndoom. Although Cyrus only has one in Platinum, not Diamond/Pearl, but Platinum is generally taken as the canon game anyway.
- They're just two of the trainers from the lighthouse, since they mention it when they speak to you.
- Ultimately Jossed. The Poké Transporter was patched just before the games' release so that gender and shininess when transferring from Gen I to Gen VII are computed the same way as in Gen II.
The screen blacking out was just to hide that he jumped off Mt. Silver in shame. This is further supported by the remakes, where Red is standing right next to the edge of the top of Mt. Silver.
- How do you rebattle him, then? I know what you're going to say...
- The same reason the Elite Four acts like you haven't challenged them before, even though you've beaten them 10 times. The battle with Red only happened once canonically, it's just that you're allowed to relive those events just before his suicide.
- You (the player character, not the above troper) are sick. Fighting a suicidal trainer over and over, with him jumping off the edge of a cliff (or being knocked off the edge of the cliff thanks to the shock of losing) every time you win? Unless you (the player character) think you're actually traveling to the past and can change his mind... *shudder*
- The same reason the Elite Four acts like you haven't challenged them before, even though you've beaten them 10 times. The battle with Red only happened once canonically, it's just that you're allowed to relive those events just before his suicide.
- After becoming Champion, Red defended his title against an endless wave of challengers. He gradually lost his enthusiasm for battling, and eventually surrenders the title. He sought the ultimate challenge, hence his journey into the heart of Mt. Silver. (Assuming that legendaries only show themselves to those who are "worthy", Red in his glory-seeking mental state is hardly fitting.) Eventually, he reaches the end, when he realizes that he has conquered the toughest challenge for any trainer, and prepares to leap off of the edge when the player character walks in...
- No. He didn't die, he blacked out. He is still mute since he was a Silent Protagonist, so it would make sense that he would do what he did in RBY when he lost: lose some money, black screen, fade in to the Pokemon Center safe and sound. By the time you get back there, he had already Flown away.
- He never died and as previously mentioned, blacked out. This is even mentioned by Green after you defeat Red, congratulating you for doing it. Implying that they met up after he got beaten
- Jossed. You battle him at the World Tournament.
- The Delta Episode in ORAS basically confirms that the Pokémon series runs on a multiverse. While it was mainly in relation to ORAS and the original RSE, why not extend the reach a little and include the first two gens in this, too?
- Ash and Red aren't the same person. Red came first, then the anime and Ash.
- Wait... she said he was "late"??? Oh my god, Red was a ghost! That would explain why no one talked about him in the other games, other than "You remind me of..."
- Wait, what? When was any "boyfriend" besides the guy that the player actually sees her with at Cerulean Cape mentioned? And he's got a different sprite from Red, so... probably not.
- I bet Blaine knew about Missingno and tried to create a countermeasure. It saved the Pokemon Center and everyone inside it.
- When you're in Ecruteak, you're forced to awaken the Legendary Beasts to progress with the story, correct? And when they wake up, they give a yawn of a roar. But check this:It is said that when it roars, a volcano erupts somewhere around the globe.Entei's Pokédex entry, Diamond/Pearl/Platinum
- Entei roars, volcanoes erupt. Entei roared when it woke up, before running off, and... Well, by the time you get to Cinnabar, all that's left is the Pokémon Center. No humans died, but the Pokémon in the mansion? Probably dead. All the buildings and property on the island? Hope they had insurance. Anything they were researching at the lab? Gone, along with all record of its existence unless they had a backup somewhere that wasn't destroyed. It was almost a year before you get there, but the period between the end credits following the defeat of Lance and you finally making it to Kanto is never necessarily detailed now, is it?
- Alternatively, this could apply to any Entei-related incidents post-FR/LG. Red could be walking to Mt. Silver two years later and run into one, it gives out a battle cry, Cinnabar erupts.
- It was your fault, but there was nothing you could do to prevent it in the first place. Eusine and Silver were already looking for the legendary dogs. They would have found it eventually.
- ...Cinnabar erupted two years before the protagonist became a trainer.
- Cinnabar was already destroyed, but there's still Mt. Chimney in Hoenn. You inadvertantly completed Team Magma's evil plan!
- Except Team Magma's plan was stupid. Assuming you made Mt. Chimney erupt, all you probably did is grant Lavaridge and potentially Fallarbor Town a horrific molten death
- Eh, They're still smarter then Team Aqua.
- This can't possibly work in the originals, though. You can progress without waking them up.
- It's worth noting that the Cinnabar eruption was inspired by several that happened in Montserrat over a period between 1995 and 1997, rendering its entire capital of Plymouth uninhabitable.
- In B/W, almost ALL the Gym Leaders live next to their weaknesses. Maybe it's the league rules...
- Considering B/W takes place in a simile of America, and Lt. Surge is blatantly and canonically American... Maybe he's just used to the old rules!
- Except for the fact that Unova and the United States of America are stated to be two different places in the Pokemon World...
- But that's wrong.
- Considering B/W takes place in a simile of America, and Lt. Surge is blatantly and canonically American... Maybe he's just used to the old rules!
- Diglett have incredibly low Defense and Electric types are generally extremely fast. Gameplay aside, Surge shouldn't have had much trouble beating any Diglett users that came his way.
- It's a plot point that he evolves his Pokémon for power, not strategy, but the overconfidence would fit with his characterization.
- That bit about evolution is Anime-only.
- It's a plot point that he evolves his Pokémon for power, not strategy, but the overconfidence would fit with his characterization.
- Well, it would explain why berries don't grow there... at least, not anymore.
- Perhaps Apricorns are hardier than the old Berries which is why they can survive?
- Berries resemble tomato plants, which are small, while Apricorns grow on trees, which are much hardier than smaller plants.
- In Gold and Silver, once Team Rocket is actively searching for Giovanni, Gold/the player only sees Bill for incredibly brief periods of time; and he always seems to be in quite a hurry, mostly communicating through in-between agents and screens.
- This brings up the question of how he knows when to return to the gym. Very simply, Old Man Weedle is acting as his eyes and ears, warning Giovanni/Bill ahead of time when a trainer powerful enough to face him is coming so he can quickly Fly to Viridian and
fix the Broken Bridgeunlock the Gym.- He has a video camera in the door of the gym, or some sort of scanner for the number of badges a player has. He then uses the teleporter to get into the gym. The "broken teleporter" story is just a case of Obfuscating Malfunction, so that people assume he can't get to the Gym on (literally) a moment's notice, and that he has nothing to do with those working teleporters Team Rocket has.
- In the anime, his door has an image of Mewtwo, at a time when the only people who know about him are the scientists who made him and Giovanni. Which would imply that Bill is either a high-ranking member of Team Rocket, or one of the scientists involved in the creation of Mewtwo.
- Using the anime as evidence for the games? Really? REALLY?
- That cannot be the only problem you have with this theory, dude.
- Using the anime as evidence for the games? Really? REALLY?
- Likewise, the only way to get to his cottage is by traveling over Nugget Bridge, which is guarded by a Rocket grunt.
- Speaking of Nugget Bridge, a guy in the Cerulean Pokemon Center in FR/LG comments that Bill will do whatever it takes to get rare Pokemon, and he's "not above doing all sorts of things." Sounds a bit fishy in light of this theory.
- You, sir, are cordially invited to re-read the OP's first sentence.
- Speaking of Nugget Bridge, a guy in the Cerulean Pokemon Center in FR/LG comments that Bill will do whatever it takes to get rare Pokemon, and he's "not above doing all sorts of things." Sounds a bit fishy in light of this theory.
- So, is Bill's family in on his double life or are they in the dark, too? And where would Silver fit in to it, since he is Giovanni's son?
- Related to the above, Bill appears to be a young adult while Giovanni is middle-aged with a nearly teenaged son. It wouldn't make sense for Bill to have a son that old.
- Or that could be radio static.
- Jossed. Giovanni will appear in Black 2 and White 2.
- That doesn't rule out Attempted Suicide. Attempted, but failed and/or changed his mind. That, or he faked a suicide attempt to deter Ethan/Lyra from following him, knowing they wouldn't be able to move for a bit from the shock of a man committing suicide before their very eyes.
- Jossed. Blue was the Champion in Red/Blue/Yellow/Fire Red/Leaf Green. And he's the same age as Red.
- That doesn't actually mean anything, though. It's totally in character for Blue to refuse to allow Lance to be the acting champion in his place, and it makes sense for Red to agree to it.
- Well, Gold/Ethan's Expy-of-Red status was pretty blatant back in GSC, until FRLG and HGSS differentiated them a bit more... Given how much they used to look alike, this is fairly plausible.
- It's only been 3 years though. His hair isn't even that similar to Red's.
- Well, not anymore, but it was slightly more similar in their original artwork. At least it was the same color, anyway.
- Leaf is crossdressing as Red.
- Red is Transgender, began his journey as Leaf, and transitioned sometime in between FRLG and HGSS.
- Leaf is really Red's gendered alternate counterpart.
- Nah, Pikachu is Series Mascot, so I doubt they'd boot him off Leaf's hypothetical team. I'd guess that Espeon would be in place of Snorlax (or maybe Lapras, but since Lapras was specially added for HGSS Snorlax would be more probable).
- However, LGPE introduces Eevee as a parallel starter to Pikachu, being also associated to the female playable character.
- That said, when Green made a cameo in LGPE, she lead with Clefable instead.
- Or Arceus is just a massive dick. This is the being that created SENTIENT ICE CREAM. Someone commits suicide? "Too bad bitch, you're not dying." *Rezzes them*
- It's pretty believable that Petrel would disguise himself as Giovanni again. As for who is Red in disguise... I'd say either Leaf or Gold/Ethan.
- He would've had to have taken another trip to Johto sometime before the Kanto games, then, since he'll ask you in FR/LG if you're a boy or girl.
- Problem: Yellow does not appear to be canon, if Blue's Gym team is any indication (it's based off his Red/Blue team). Also, two admins who are quite similar to Ariana and Archer appear in Fire Red and Leaf Green, which does not take much from Yellow either. So Jessie and James existing in Yellow doesn't really mean much... Besides, design-wise Ariana and Archer are the closest-based off the admin designs that existed in the initial Gold and Silver.
- Then all we have to do is rearrange this theory to make: "The Rocket Admins from Gold and Silver are older versions of Jessie and James". Which was actually its own WMG back in the day.
Lance is both Clair's cousin and Champion when you first challenge Blackthorn. In a paradigm where Champions hold political power, it's not unreasonable to assume that keeping Lance on the throne is a familial, not individual, interest. Lance represents his family's ideals and protects the political and economic interests of Blackthorn, so his demotion is costly to his city and family.
Given Clair's skill level, one can assume that she can recognize talent. Not only did she lose to you, but she undoubtedly also heard accounts of your power from other people in Johto. She thinks (knows) that if you go up against Lance, you'll very likely win and curtail her family's influence. But well, you can't challenge the League without eight badges...
When she first refuses to give you the badge and deflects by asking you to go to the Dragon's Den, she does so under the guise of subjecting you through another trial because of you "lazy ideals". She's unfriendly, but she has plausible undeniability. If she's reported, she could point to other Gym Leaders who make you do things before giving you the badge. Her hope is that her grandfather, who is likely more respected than her throughout the region, will recognize what she's doing and give you a more legitimate-sounding reason for refusing you a badge. (Bonus points if there's some League loophole that allows Gym Leaders to tack on extra badge-earning requisites, and/or if the clan has used this method to reject people who defeated Clair).
Unfortunately for her, you pass her grandfather's test with flying colors. There's no plausible way that he can reject you. Even if they flunk you, they can't do so forever without attracting unwelcome outside attention. And it sure would be awkward if you ended up becoming Champion anyways (maybe by challenging the Kanto circuit and using those badges?) and then taxing Blackthorn exports...
(Anyways, I find it hard to believe that you're the first person who's ever defeated Clair. If you're not, you'd think that the League would pick up on complaints about Gym Leaders not handing out badges. And if being "unbeatable" mattered so much to her, why did Clair used a nerfed lvl 40 team instead of her HGSS rematch team? My only guess is that she has something personal against the player character. )
Except it's not. Not at all. Clair and Lance probably received their Dratinis, before they even began serious training, by their clan while they were extremely young (in fact, in the mangas, this is canon). They basically got a Dratini handed to them, purely for being born into the 'right family' (while other people struggle to even find one), grew to become adults with a good decade of years of training behind them, and then them and the rest of their clan look down on people who don't have Dratinis and Dragonairs as amazing as they do, as well as persuading the general populace to do the same thing. All while constructing this notion that the members of the elite family should be respected and praised (even admired and worshiped), for no other reason, other than being born in the right family and inheriting that family privilege. Kind of like a metaphor for most of society's socioeconomic inequality really.
- What's worse is that not only do they boost their hereditary privilege, they deny others the right to have it as well. Look at it this way, Dratinis are common on only one place (the Dragon Den), you can't enter the Dragon Den until you had been 'blessed as a dragon user'. But you can't legitimately be a dragon user, unless you actually own and train a dragon type. But you can't get a dragon type until you enter the den. It's just Flat "What". Catch 22. It's weird that you only end up only being able to catch your first dragon Pokémon until after you're considered a dragon user. My guess is that the dragon clan are mostly worried that, hypothetically, if other people did start using dragon types more, it would render the enigma and coolness factor of the dragon type fad null and void. It would be like having a 'normal user clan' or a 'grass user clan'. You see, the Blackthorn dragon clan don't want to lose that, it's the only thing that makes them special. That's why they isolate the Dragon's Den off from people, that's why they appear so snobby about dragon types being THEIR thing.
- How does this link to Cult of Personality though?
- Have you not seen how many people in Johto and Kanto have dragon types? It's just Lance, Clair, and a bunch of Cooltrainers that hang around the Blackthorn Gym itself. Most of them openly idolize Clair and Lance. From the way they talk, I do get the impression that there's a bit of Cult of Personality solely for the excessive fan-following centered around the Blackthorn dragon clan, and around Lance and Clair in general. Seeing as no other trainers seem to have dragon types, apart from the ones that surrender themselves as fanatics only. It's a bit suspicious if you ask me.
- On a slightly related note, why do Lance and the dragon clan elder talk about how Pokémon should be treated with friendship and compassion, yet the blessed user of the clan (Clair) gives you the rising badge that makes all Pokémon obey you without question? I wasn't aware obedience was a compassionate strand of true friendship. Also the quiz they ask you in that den has other contradictory questions to their previous attitudes as well. For example, asking you which is more important in pokemon and trainers, strong, weak, or both. The right answer being both (so the clan think you're compassionate) despite Clair's attitudes seeming more gravitating towards strong pokemon, and refusing to even admit she had lost against you because her pokemon were weaker. Another question is which is more important in raising pokemon: love, knowledge or violence. SHE OWNS A POKEMON GYM, the whole theme of that is using pokemon to battle to prove your own supremacy. I would have agreed with her if she was just a NPC handing out a TM or something, but coming from a clan that supports a gym leader that's hypocritical to the core. But when I started to think about it, it made me realize. That's why all the Cooltrainers in her gym are so pathetically weak compared to Clair. I mean the clan is telling them "you have to accept strength and weakness, and love and knowledge is more important than violence", meanwhile Clair has elevated up in social prestige so much because of the cult influence, she can effectively focus completely on strength and violence, directly contradicting the dragon clan's mantras that it enforces on others, and not one person bats an eyelid, because they will always see her as a 'charismatic leader'. Same goes for Lance. That's why Clair and Lance grew to be so powerful, and why their fanatics are weak. Lance and Claire don't follow the same rules they tell others to uphold, so they boost up in strength while the others remain stationary. The Blackthorn dragon clan represents one of those 'can preach but can't practice' all-talk cults perfectly. The fan-following around them is only because the people of Johto and Kanto haven't woken up yet.
- Supported by the increasingly common presence and ownership of dragon types in all other regions since, where the prestige of dragon users has noticeably gone down. People are wising up.
- Is it just me, or does 'blessed user of dragon pokemon' sound disturbingly similar to 'glorious leader of our nation'? If we consider the Pokemon League the 'public sector' of the Pokemon world, Clair would essentially be the appointed head of council for Blackthorn city, and her clan would be a state religion.
- It seems the prestige and social image of the dragon clan members is so high, that literally any pokemon they end up using seems to automatically be considered a dragon type, solely for the notion that the dragon clan members use them. Literally, Lance has a Ampharos in the trading card game, and Clair uses one in Pokemon Stadium 2. It's a sheep, it isn't even reptilian, there is nothing even remotely draconic about it at all. And yet, as Mega Ampharos in X/Y it suddenly gains a dual dragon type. Why? Because Lance and Clair have one?
- This is a case of stuff getting lost in translation. Ampharos's Japanese name was Denryu, which is a pun off of "denryu" (electric current) and "den ryu" (electric dragon), and that's been a thing since before Lance or Clair used it. It's also been able to learn dragon-type moves since Gen IV, although admittedly that's after it's appearances in TCG and Stadium 2.
- It's worth noting that Clair let slip that she never actually passed the (Crystal revised version of the) Dragon User Test herself, and is called out by the Elder on not being respectful enough to the player - someone more worthy than herself. It's very likely that the dissonance was deliberate.
- Clair was probably a stand-in Gym Leader selected after Lance's promotion, selected because they needed to have a Gym Leader and they had no one better at the time (not to say that Nepotism wasn't also a factor). However, this sent Clair down the wrong philosophical path, and the elder has been trying, unsuccessfully, to get her to shape up.
- Adding onto this, with the introduction of Mega Evolution, they are also holding onto Charizardite X and Ampharosite.
- Psychic types ran amok in generation 1 due to a number of factors just happening to all benefit them. People discovered that there were other types out there, like dark, which have a huge advantage over psychic. They began importing Houndours and Murkrows. They're even found near Saffron City, where they would be in high demand due to all the psychic trainers in the area.
- This is why Johto and Kanto are the only region to share an Elite 4, and you need 8 badges to face him. It would also explain all the bad organization like the Kanto gym leaders being stronger than the Elite 4, (although that can be explained as them using their best team for a man with 8 or more badges.)
- Red's highest level Pokemon as well as the first one he calls out is Pikachu, suggesting that was his starter. He also has the fully evolved form of the 3 Kanto starters which you can only do in Pokemon Yellow. True they didn't want to give Red a definitive starter so they just gave him all four, but still his Pikachu...
- Then why is Blue's Gym team his RGB team minus a starter?
- Worth noting that in Yellow, all three starters are handed to the PC by NPCs for various reasons, in homage to the anime like the rest of the game.
- Actually you can have all three starters in the other Kanto games through trading, since you are tasked with catching all 151 pokemon. But the Pikachu point still stands.
- Best reason I can think of for them not being in HG/SS.
- ...That makes so much sense. And it makes it all the more disappointing that the player can't go there in HGSS.
- The "new" Eeveelutions seem to be fairly well-known by the time of the game, though, plus one of the Kimono Girls has an Espeon. I can totally buy Sabrina being one of the first people in Kanto to do it, though.
- If you examine the door of the former Day Care on Route 5, it gives the message "What’s this? House for Sale… Nobody lives here." What are they doing in the supposedly vacant house? Or maybe it's just a remnant from earlier in development when the house wasn't accessible.