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Headscratchers / The Muppets

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    The Muppets 2011 movie 
  • Why did Tex Richman hire a pair of muppets as his dragons, if he was trying to destroy the Muppet Theater?
    • Well, to be fair, Bobo was from Muppets Tonight and not The Muppet Show, and Uncle Deadly was always on the cusp of a Face–Heel Turn when they would use him.
    • Keeping in mind that the Muppets all had to go back to work of a mundane sort when the troupe broke up.
    • Neither of them are officially Muppets - as in performers on the Muppet Show/Muppets Tonight. Uncle Deadly was a ghost who haunted the theater, and Bobo was just security. In a world with lots of muppet-style characters, he's probably not concerned with that, (he's not racist, just opposed to the Muppets themselves.)
  • So the Muppet Theater was in the downtown area of Hollywood this whole time? Pardon if I'm not as familiar with the show, but I know they filmed the actual sets in London, even though I know it wasn't exactly where the in-universe theater was. Was the location of the theater ever made clear back then?
    • I don't think so, but Scooter DID say that the theatre was owned by his uncle, Lord Lew Grade, who was British.
      • No, Scooter's uncle was J.P. Grosse. And Very Muppet Christmas appeared to place the theater in NYC. Best not to dwell on it too much.
    • The Muppet Show was filmed in England because that's where they got the backing for it, but it was always meant to be set in America. Off the top of my head, I can think of the "Salute to All Nations" episode guest-starring Spike Milligan, where it's made clear that they're in America, and the episode where they have to do the show at a railroad station, where all the train destinations mentioned are in the US. I don't think the show ever got definitive about which city the theatre was in. The first movie has them wind up in Los Angeles to sign the Standard Rich And Famous Contract, but I don't recall whether it actually says that's where the theatre was.
  • Is there even legal to drill for oil in downtown Los Angeles? You'd think quite a lot of people would protest doing something like that in the middle of a city.
  • Isn't Scooter's uncle supposed to own the theater? What happened?
    • One movie had a deleted scene it was announced that he passed away and left the theater to Kermit— same movie also had the theater declared a historical landmark, meaning it couldn't be torn down. So yeah, I guess that's not canon to this movie. I like to assume that it's an alternate continuity wherein he died but did not leave the theater to Kermit, or even make out a will.
      • Actually, it was spelled out by Statler and Waldorf that the deed/"Standard Rich and Famous" contract meant Kermit's claim to the deed expired after the 30 years had passed. The contract was iron-clad, except for the stipulation that they could buy it outright for $10 Million before the contract's expiration.
  • Given that Gonzo had become rich since leaving the Muppets to start a plumbing supply company, couldn't he have provided the money to buy back the studio (This of course, being before he blew the company up in a rather expensive explosion)?
    • In the junior novelization, after the explosion Gonzo actually offers to put up the money...then realizes he lost it by destroying the company.
    • He could have, but apparently the fact that he declined at first meant that he wanted nothing to do with them until he chose to later.
  • So many of us noticed that giant Cars 2 billboard on top of the Muppet Theater that they showed multiple times during the movie. Assuming Disney and/or Pixar paid the Muppets to let them put their billboard outside their theater, it certainly wouldn't be enough to save the theater immediately but wouldn't the Muppets make a decent sum of money from that promotion to at least pay the bills?
    • Not sure... but it makes me happy that Pixar Animation Studios exists in this musical universe!
  • Walter, a Muppet...a blood relative of Gary, a human, his brother?
  • So, if the Muppets had that many fans like we saw in the ending number, why didn't they raise enough money to get back the studio?
    • It's assumed that the crowd didn't arrive to the theater immediately when the telethon began, or even, when the telethon almost ended. Given how the Muppets basically cobbled together the show with a budget of a piece of wood, they wouldn't have advertising for it except for whoever happened to tune in to the station that aired the telethon. Word-of-mouth spread, and the in-theater crowd slowly grew. It's assumed it's the same thing that happened with the crowd waiting for them outside- it may have formed in the last minute of the telethon, after the phone lines were cut. Also, we're in a recession, you understand, and this Muppet/musical world in-universe (probably representing, or based on, our own) most likely has the same problem.
  • If the cents-dollars issue was accurate, does that mean that first family only donated 24 cents?
    • Yes.
  • Why didn't Floyd give Animal the drumsticks he was saving for him during their first rehearsal, instead of IN THE MIDDLE of the "Rainbow Connection" duet?! They made it clear that the other Muppets couldn't keep time because Animal refused to play drums!
    • Floyd might have been trying to respect Animal's wishes at the time. Either that, or Animal was avoiding Floyd.
  • Am I the only one who was wondering "Who is the big blue Tapir guy?"
    • Thog. He was one of the recurring background monsters in The Muppet Show. He never had a distinct personality and never had any lines.
  • So in this first Muppet Show "revival" in decades, we get no Pigs in Space, no Veterinarian's Hospital, no Muppet Labs, no Dr. Teeth and the Electric Mayhem number, no Swedish Chef cooking segment, and yet, we do get a song from da chicken???
    • Some of the reasons for their exclusion are justified. Kermit outright rejected a Muppet Labs segment but only went so far as to say "we can't do that"- they probably lost the props. The Electric Mayhem couldn't perform a song because Animal refused to play drums for the majority of the show. Those others are a puzzler, though. The staff took the time to rebuild Link Hogthrob and the Doctor in their space suits, but they didn't get any act?
    • And remember that the telethon was supposed to run for two hours, that's more than the entire movie running time. So probably they did a lot of segments in-universe that we didn't see.
  • If they brought back all sorts of old obscure Muppets, why didn't they bring back someone as Crazy Awesome as Angus McGonagle, the "Argyle Gargoyle" (the kilted Scotsman who gargles Gershwin, gorgeously)? Seeing him gargle a line of "Life's a Happy Song" during the finale would have been beyond hilarious. (A case could be made for many of the bit characters from the original show, actually; the Koozebanians, Annie Sue, Clive Cahuenga (the Singing Civil Servant), The Flying Zucchini Brothers, Lottie Lemon and her Singing Wig, Yolanda the Dancing Cheese, Hugga Wugga...)
    • Keep in mind that the crapload of obscure Muppets were there to fill out the background shots (or, in the case of Thog and Jerry and the Atrics, accurately recreate the opening number. In fact Deadly is the only obscure TMS-era character to be actively involved in the plot.) Even if they did bring back those other guys, I doubt they'd be given anything interesting to do. Also keep in mind that the ones you mentioned are comparatively not that obscure—I saw the freaking Afghan hound show up in the background of a scene, for Christ sake. I think we were good on fan-indulging cameos.
    • I'm amazed that when they needed a replacement for Miss Piggy, They didn't think of Annie Sue, who was so talented that Piggy actually considered her a threat. But then again, that would have affected the subplot with Miss Poogy (I'm sure that the audience would NOT have appreciated Piggy beating the tar out of Annie Sue) or maybe it was simply that Annie Sue's performer Louise Gold was not available.
      • Well, Gold and Annie Sue are gonna be in the sequel.
  • Was he a man, or was he a Muppet?
    • Pfft. If he was a Muppet, he was a very manly Muppet...
      • But if he was a man, then he was a Muppet of a man. Could have gone either way, really.
      • We're just runnin' outta time. We got to make up our minds! So we can understand.... who they are...
  • After seeing this movie, I have just one thing that's been bugging me. After the "travel by map" scene, when they drive out of the water onto a beach in France, the camera cuts to this guy with long black hair. Is it just me, or is that Tommy Wiseau? Because it would be awesome if it was.
    • I have no idea, but the DVD Commentary says they filmed that scene on the last day of shooting, which was at a lake in Northern California. The casting call went out for "men with body hair", and they put them in Speedos.
    • Well, he didn't say "Oh hai, Muppets! How is your sex life?"
  • Why does Gary only tell Walter a few hours ahead of time that they're going to LA together? Doesn't Walter have a life and plans too?
    • Probably not, in the flash back in the beginning of the movie it's shown that his life is basically revolves around Gary and The Muppets. Also, he did seem to have difficulty making friends because he's well, a muppet.
    • They are also very close. Gary already knew that Walter didn't have any plans, and if he did have plans, Gary would find out and spill the beans then.
  • What's Mary's problem? So they're not having an anniversary dinner on their anniversary, and -being fair - Gary did forget but Mary got to take a trip around the country AND GO TO FRANCE, which she had daydreamed about! (In the rainy part of the opening song).
    • It's difficult to tell what parts you're supposed to take seriously and which parts you're supposed to laugh at.
    • I think - taking it seriously - that Mary's major issue was that she once again got upstaged by Walter and his needs/wants. Consider: the woman has been dating Gary for ten years, loves him deeply, but he won't marry her because he doesn't want to leave his (little?) brother alone. This anniversary trip, which was supposed to be for just the two of them, first got upstaged by Gary bringing Walter along and then by Walter dragging everyone on his save-the-Muppets crusade. Sure, she got to travel around the country and go to France, but she didn't get to actually visit or explore those places because they were searching for the Muppets. I think what it came down to is that she wanted and, because of his promise, expected Gary to give her just this one dinner that was about them and their relationship. And he didn't.
    • They travelled by map and montage. She didn't see that much of the country, only the parts that were in the montage.
  • Tex Richman prohibits singing in his office. But later, he does a rap in his office???
    • Screw the Rules, I Make Them!
    • Also, Bobo and Uncle Deadly were both happily singing a Muppet song after hearing they were getting back together, and Richman is doing his "I'm awesome and super rich and I hate the Muppets" rap to rub in the fact that he's not giving back the theater, so the circumstances are different.
    • Well, rapping and singing are quite different. However, those cabaret girls do qualify for this headscratcher towards the end of his rap.
  • Why is the Muppet Theater so important to the Muppets if none of them have ever worked in it for 30 years, have all gone their separate ways and made a name for themselves, and it's in disarray anyway? Sure, they learn that where they work doesn't matter by the end, but shouldn't this be an obvious realization? It brought them back together, and it supposedly solved Fozzie's poor living situation, but still! It was a deteriorating theater no one was using, in the middle of a hot realty property! Why were so many Muppets upset about a place they never had anything do with for so long??!
    • The Muppet Theater was going to be destroyed which is reason enough to start to care about something.
    • A lot of the muppets still wanted to be The Muppets. Most of them were unhappy doing what they were doing. In the end, they didn't care about the theatre that much, just that they were back together again.
  • The Funny Moments page says that Gary's and Mary's last lines have a Stealth Pun. Could someone please point it out to me?
    • "Manha manha" is followed by "Do do do do do," which almost sounds like "I do."
  • Okay, I get that there was a limited budget, and I guess I can forgive some empty spots in the arches at the end, but seriously, they couldn't afford to build one more full-body Muppet to get some symmetry on the first part of the theme, or make the arches big enough for Thog to actually walk through?
    • That was probably deliberate. The implication would be that they used the same in-universe Muppet performers as on the original show, and some slots were vacant because those particular actors were unavailable: unwilling, too old, too sick, or deceased. Any real 30-year reunion show is bound to have some absences, after all that time.
  • So during the time-saving montage the Muppets got many characters back against their will by pulling them with a stage hook. Why didn't they just use the hook to bring Miss Piggy back?
    • The pig knows karate. Would you really want to be on the other end of the hook that would grab Miss Piggy?
  • How many levels of Fourth Wall are there? It appears in this universe that "travelling by map" is real as opposed to just being a Visual Metaphor, and The Muppet Show is an actual TV program but the characters actually exist. I sort of get that, but then Mary refers to the supposedly real-life-in-universe events as a "movie". What now?
  • During the telethon, Jack Black is seen in quite a few different outfits, always tied up with ropes on the outside. For example, he is seen wearing a tuxedo tied up and again with a blanket over him (and the ropes tied on the outside of the blanket) during the barbershop quartet. But changing him into these different outfits would require him to be untied and retied. How did the Muppets do this?

    The Muppets 2015 show 
  • So why would Piggy and Kermit collaborate on a show as star and producer/director and base it in LA rather than New York? Kermit certainly has the natural climactic preferences of a frog, and Miss Piggy some of those of a pig, and there's plenty of swampland in the north Jersey commuter belt...
  • Bear with me on this one. There's two "levels" to most Muppet productions - the Muppets as actors, and the Muppets as characters played by those actors. Prior to this show, while characters played by Kermit and Miss Piggy had gotten together, the behind-the-scenes Kermit and Miss Piggy were never in a relationship, as much as Piggy wanted one (and this most recently confirmed in the Muppet Character Encyclopedia, released in 2014). However, in the show, Kermit and Miss Piggy have just broken up, and that extends to out-of-character segments within the show and even out-of-character interviews done outside of the show. So... did the Muppet writers just forget they were never a couple, or is this just a massive retcon?
  • Question about "Pig Out" - Fozzie wasn't among the Muppets that went to Rowlf's bar and got drunk, so how come he's among the Muppets that don't show up to work on time? And how come he's still not there when the rest of the Muppets finally DO show up?

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