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    Waste the hostage 

  • Why doesn’t Hawk Moth ever threaten to have the people his Akuma victims mind-control harm themselves? Or even the Akuma themself if he can exert that control? Ladybug and Chat Noir clearly care about innocents, so wouldn’t they serve better as hostages than soldiers?
    • Presumably, the victims still have some control/autonomy over their own bodies, even if they are evilized, and although he can make them experience pain (like he did with Evillustrator) only the victims can hear him, so Ladybug and Chat Noir wouldn't know they have a hostage situation.
    • Except that Hawk Moth can be heard, at least by Ladybug (when nearby), as in "Timebreaker", just after Cat Noir is hit, Hawk Moth tells TB, "Timebreaker! His Miraculous — take Cat Noir's ring before he disappears!" and Ladybug says defiantly, "Go ahead and try!" And I believe that's not the only example.
    • She could be guessing... I mean, basically all of the akumatized villains want the miraculous, so it wouldn't be hard for her to know that Tbreaker is thinking "Now's my chance!"
    • Actually, this one has an answer. Akumas are driven by desire. Even though they have been scorned/are upset, they still have goals, and those goals often interfere with collection of akuma (in other words, it's not mind control, it's a pact). The sort of person that he takes would resist being used as a hostage because they still have things to live for, and if he were to select among the truly depressed, many of them would thwart his plans anywat because they'd have more trouble staying alive which also makes them poor hostages. In fact, the only mind control that is ever done is done by akuma, and in the case, it's really more about their goals than Hawk Moth's.

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    Recognizing villains 

  • Chat Noir recognizes who three villains of the week are so far. He is able to notice who Stormy Weather by her cardboard cut out. He recognizes his best friend even though he looked nothing like how he usually does. Most of all he recognizes who Copycat is only based the straw of a lollipop he was chewing on earlier that day. But he isn't able to recognize Ladybug when only her cheekbones are covered and the color of her eyes and hair slightly lighter.
    • Clark Kenting taken to the logical extreme?
    • To be fair, Marinette's hair and eye color slightly change when she becomes Ladybug, and she gains a more confident personality when she transforms.
    • Plus, it was shown in the episode "My Friend Alya" that Ladybug and Cat Noir are popular enough that people cosplay them when they see Chloé cosplaying Ladybug (who doesn't seem surprised at all). It's possible that Adrien sees the similarities in Marinette and Ladybug's appearance and just assumes that Marinette is trying to look more like Ladybug.
    • There's also a possibility that while in their superhero forms, both of them are colorblind. We cut to Ladybug's POV whenever she uses her Lucky Charm, and everything appears to be black and white except for what she needs to take down the akuma, which flash bright red with black spots. Real life ladybugs can only see in black and white. As for Cat, real life cats can see color but in a far more limited palette than your average human.
    • This wouldn't apply to them when not transformed. Even if being transformed makes them colorblind to a degree, they have seen each other's costumed forms while not in their own - not only have they seen pictures and videos of each other in costume, both of them have met their partner while not transformed (Marinette interacts with Chat Noir in Evillustrator, Adrien interacts with Ladybug in Simon Says).
    • They are absolutely not colorblind when transformed. If they were, Adrien would not be so easily able to identify Ladybug's eye color (unless he's getting it from grainy photos and news videos); moreover, Ladybug's "Lucky Charm Vision" is just a visual thing for the viewers and does not actually reflect what she sees.
    • To elaborate on the above, Ladybug's B&W vision has been explained thusly by Word of God.
    • It's possible that there is some kind of magic that protects them from being recognized when they transform and unless someone sees them transform or they tell another person straight away who they are, they cannot be recognized as their civilian selves.
    • There may be magic protecting Ladybug and Chat, but people who've been Akumatized are often outed as such on the news. While in the prequel episode Ivan gets made fun of for being a former villain, it seems like the general consensus is that the people who are Akumatized are not at fault.
    • Which could logically be because they aren't Miraculous holders and therefore aren't protected. Perhaps the protection only occurs for Miraculous holders, but not those affected by a Miraculous holders' powers.
    • Cat Noir has no reason to be sure Ladybug's transformation changes her eyes to a lesser degree his transformation changes his eyes.
    • There are several fake out scenes with Marinette when she thinks someone's recognised her, but they don't, most notably with her own parents. It's safe to say that if her own mother doesn't recognise her in disguise, there MUST be some magic in effect. Furthermore, e.g. in Horrificator we find out that Chat Noir and Marinette still sound like their civilian identities - Adrien, while transformed, reassures Marinette that "Adrien" is fine. Magic is the only explanation for why you would be able to hear that exact voice while looking at a transformed hero and not be able to tell it's them.
    • There's no magic in effect- Alya can tell that Adrien looks a lot like Cat Noir. It's pretty simple, I think, why nobody has figured the heroes out yet but can figure out the akumas- everyone has a specific image of what Ladybug and Cat Noir are behind the mask and are thus totally unable to see the forest for the trees. With the villains, it's a little easier. Marinette's parents do not want to think their daughter is going out and doing dangerous things, so they do not see her in Ladybug. Marinette, when confronted with two pieces of good evidence, is unwilling to believe Cat Noir is Adrien (Alya says she thinks Adrien looks like Cat Noir and shows her a scratch mock-up picture of Adrien as Cat Noir, and Marinette knows they're both allergic to feathers). Marinette just does not want to believe Cat Noir and Adrien are one and the same because she idealises Adrien and finds Cat Noir annoying but a good partner. Likewise, Chloé is so enamoured with Adrien and Ladybug she has the same mental block as Marinette does. Adrien is so fixated on Ladybug that he doesn't see Marinette, a girl he barely knows, in her. Alya does needle Marinette that she could be a suspect in being Ladybug, but doesn't seem serious (likely because Marinette is so clumsy). Adrien is so different as Cat Noir (Cat Noir is playful, confident, cocky, punny, and a show-off compared to the more reserved, shy, polite, and quiet pushover Adrien) and Marinette is so different as Ladybug (confident, graceful, and snarky, compared to the awkward, clumsy, and self-critical Nice Girl Marinette) that people just don't connect them. Yes they look and sound the same, but if they act totally different or they have certain perceptions of their superhero self that differ from their civilian self, that's gonna blind a lot of people to their visual and auditory similarities. That's all it really is, I think.
    • Except the akuma victim isn't usually recognized by who they are, but something they have that didn't change (i.e. Marinette zooming in on Alya's phone or looking at Nathaniel's art), or something they say that reminds the heroes of something they saw (Manon demanding the dolls, Nino throwing a birthday party for Adrien, or Reflekta saying "You won't get rid of me by locking me in the bathroom this time!"). Aurore is a rare example of them recognizing someone based on sight alone, but they are looking at cardboard cutout for the losing weather girl while facing a weather themed villain with pigtails and a parasol...

     "You're going to change back before me." - Copycat 
  • That line raises too many questions. Copycat can time out? Would he change into Theo again? Would be wearing the ring? Did he had a copy of Plagg that would need to rest?
    • At the time, Ladybug was trying to get the Akuma from Copycat, so I took that as Copycat thinking Cat Noir would time out before Ladybug got the Akuma.
    • Okay, that makes sense, though it invites another question: If he never times out, how often Copycat can use Cataclysm? He tried once and never again, implying some recharge.
    • And now that Antibug aired, we can be sure that akumatised villains can have time limit, but we still don't know what happens when they turn back.
    • You are forgetting that Copycat and Antibug are both copies of our heroes, who have a 5 minute time limit to finish the fight after using their abilities, and then they need to feed their Kwami.
    • So let me get this straight: If they timed out, there would be a actual kwami? As in akuma-copy of Plagg? This raises a lot of questions.
    • Maybe the akuma would come out instead.

    Wait a second, Tikki 
  • Okay, so there's one itsy-bitsy moment in "The Evillustrator" that bothers me. After returning home from Chloé's place, Marinette powers down as she goes through her roof and throws her bag down, unknowingly hurting Tikki as she does so. Except... how the heck was Tikki in the bag? Marinette was using her as Ladybug not even a half second prior.
    • The only explanation I could come up with is that for some reason Tikki went into the bag right after leaving the miraculous (she has been shown to have the ability to phase through things in case of emergency, so she could in theory get inside; perhaps she went for the cookies that Marinette often keeps around to feed her), and Marinette didn't notice this when she landed.

     Assuming the fan theory is correct... (spoilers for "Simon Says") 
  • If Hawk Moth is Gabriel Agreste, in "Simon Says" why would Gabriel corrupt someone that puts him and Adrien in mortal peril? Simon could have easily killed Gabriel with his hypnosis or done the same to Adrien. At best and worst it would be a Pyrrhic Victory for Gabriel to lose his son or his life.
    • Alternatively, could this episode confirm that Gabriel is NOT Hawk Moth, since Gabriel is an Overprotective Dad and wouldn't directly endanger Adrien to get the Miraculous?
    • The idea of Gabriel knowingly putting Adrien in danger does seem suspicious, but keep in mind that the villain would be fixated on Gabriel, who could easily throw him off the track simply by transforming (we do see Hawk Moth conversing with Simon in this episode). If Gabriel is Hawk Moth, the whole plan basically relied on deliberately making himself a target to lure Ladybug and Cat Noir into his house. Part of the reason Simon managed to get his hands on him was that, instead of assisting Ladybug, Adrien was forced to juggle his two identities so nobody would suspect him of being Cat Noir. This was something Gabriel couldn't predict due to not realizing that his son IS one of the heroes. In short, he screwed up big time because he didn't pay enough attention to his son to suspect him of being a miraculous holder (whereas Marinette gets grounded by her parents as a result of her adventures).
    • He has put him in danger before, by Akumatizing people Adrien closely associates with, like Nino.
    • Has an akumatised victim ever gone for Adrien? Not Cat Noir, but Adrien? We've seen Marinette get attacked by Gamer, Puppeteer, and Princess Fragrance. Adrien? The only time he's been attacked by an akuma victim was when he was trying to push Chloé out of the way of Pixellator. That is, he wasn't the target. It's possible that there's always a subconscious thing preventing akuma victims from attacking Adrien. The guy is really calm when asking where Adrien is while Simon Says and his cronies are after him, so maybe such a failsafe exists?
    • It's funny that people would be suggesting this episode disproves Gabriel being Hawk Moth... this is the episode that confirms it. Take note of what Hawk Moth says and does in this episode. When he learns that Simon is coming for Gabriel: "It's risky, but it's given me an idea." If Hawk Moth isn't Gabriel, then what could possibly be risky about a villain going after some dude he doesn't know? Gabriel's look of absolute horror upon seeing Adrien wearing the Black Cat Ring. The fact that Hawk Moth stops appearing after Gabriel is captured.
    • The real question is, how did Hawk Moth plan on getting out of the predicament that he'd created? Was he actually immune to Simon Says' powers and only pretending to be brainwashed? Or had the situation legitimately gotten out of his control?
    • It seems like his plan was mostly to trust that either Ladybug and Cat Noir would defeat the Akuma as always or that Simon Says' intentions towards Gabriel leaned more towards humiliation than murder. From the claim that the whole this was 'risky', we can infer that he wasn't immune to Simon Says' power and that the situation had legitimately gone beyond his control. We can also infer that he knew this was/could be the case and decided to try it anyway simply for the benefit of diverting suspicion away from his civilian identity.

    Removing the Miraculous 
  • In the first origins episode, Marinette, distraught at having made a huge mistake by not purifying the akuma, removes her earrings. Tikki tries to stop her but gets cut off when she disappears back into the Miraculous. But in Lady Wifi, Adrien's ring got knocked off when he was locked in the freezer and Plagg was still around. So why did Tikki go back into the earrings but Plagg wasn't sealed back in the ring? Was it because Marinette willingly removed her Miraculous while Adrien's came off by accident? What would happen to the Kwami if Hawk Moth did manage to get their Miraculouses?
    • Tikki could willingly go back into the miraculous. E.g., she saw that Marinette is too upset to reconsider her choice, so she decided not to bother her unless she puts the earrings on again. Plagg had no reason to stay in the ring since Adrien wasn't about to give up his powers. As for Hawk Moth, the running gag with Adrien not letting Plagg finish his Camembert implies that the kwami don't really have a choice of not obeying the miraculous holders if transformation is initiated, so Hawk Moth getting their Miraculouses would put Tikki and Plagg under his control.
    • I can see what you're getting at, but the fact that Tikki was trying to stop Marinette and talk to her more before being cut off mid-word makes me think her returning to the Miraculous probably wasn't voluntary. In relation to Hawk Moth, I thought of the same thing you said a little after posting this WMG, especially since he basically enslaved his own kwami; I doubt he'd have any qualms with forcing Tikki and Plagg to work for him either.
    • It may have something to do with the way they were removed or rather the circumstances that caused them to be removed. In the origins episode Marinette purposely removed the earrings as a way to renounce being Ladybug. Because she had given up the title Tikki was returned into the miraculous where she couldn't speak with Marinette anymore. In Lady Wifi, this isn't the case. Adrien's Miraculous comes off accidentally after having been thrown in the freezer. However because he doesn't renounce his role as Chat Noir his kwami, Plagg, doesn't leave him. My best guess in how this works is that Miraculous can be removed, but the kwami only go back to 'sleep' if the former holder of the miraculous in some way shape or form surrenders ownership of it. Since Hawk Moth is trying to steal the earrings and ring from Ladybug and Chat Noir we can assume that forcefully taking ownership of a miraculous may also be a legitimate way to break off the connection between the heroes and their Kwami. Though there is still the very real possibility that Hawk Moth is unaware of how this works. So if he ever manages to steal the miraculous he will find himself unable to use their powers because Adrien and Marinette didn't willingly give them up.
    • Confirmed by Word of God. Thomas Astruc confirmed on his Twitter account that when the miraculous are removed by accident, the kwami stick around. But if the user WANTS to get rid of the miraculous, the kwami disappear.
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     Adrien and Chloé staying friends 
  • Okay; I get that for years, Chloé was Adrien's Only Friend...but now she isn't. The entire class likes and is at least casual friends with Adrien so he obviously no longer needs her. And he's got to be aware that she's a total bitch to anyone who isn't him. So why hasn't he told her that she either needs to start shaping up or their friendship is over? He's already shown displeasure at her deliberately mistreating people who've done nothing to deserve it and he's got to be aware that she's responsible for roughly half the akuma he's had to fight as Chat so what's it going to take for the last straw? Her driving someone to suicide, failed or otherwise (not that they'd let it be anything but on a kid's show but still)? Her deliberately physically assaulting someone, landing them in the hospital, claiming self-defense and getting away with it scott-free even when everyone knows it was her fault in the first place? Seriously; what? I can't be the only one wondering this.
    • One explanation is that Adrien is just too nice to do anything more than occasionally telling her that what she is doing isn't good. However, look at his situation in general. Being only in his teens, he has already lost his mother (so potentially pushing away anyone close to him would be the last thing he wants), and his "nice guy" image seems to be even more actively maintained for the sake of his father, who is quite demanding, yet is his only family. Adrien is a bit of a local celebrity due to being a model for him, so even a minor scandal can affect both of them. And Chloé is the mayor's daughter who enjoys throwing her own family's authority around, so in her case Adrien might have a not entirely unreasonable fear that whatever reaction she might have to him outright telling her what he thinks of her could lead to larger consequences than he can imagine, and he doesn't want to get Gabriel involved in any such mess.
    • Fair points all around but Gabriel has canonically shown that he doesn't care about how powerful people are when he refused to let Chloé manipulate things in her favor in the derby contest. If he could be easily swayed by such things, he'd have just accepted Chloé 's story that she had made the hat and shooed Marinette away as a lowly baker's daughter. Instead he firmly but fairly allows Marinette to try (and succeed in) proving her story. Granted, it's possible that Adrien doesn't realize that he could use his own influence to put Chloé in her place both because he's unaware of his father's political savvy and influence and because, as you said, he's both too nice and too afraid of pushing someone else away. I do wonder what would happen if Chloé went too far with Nino though; me thinks Adrien might not care about the fallout after that.
    • Chloé's father is just a mayor, and Gabriel is a world famous designer; there's actually not much that Chloé's father can conceivably do to even annoy Gabriel without hurting himself. In reality Gabriel doesn't even need to even have much political knowledge, because Chloé's father only keeps his job because of his reputation, and anything that would hurt that hurts the Mayor's chances of keeping his office, so Adrien really isn't in a position to be negatively effected by Chloé if he stands up to her. It's not that he can't stand up to her; it's that he chooses not to.
    • Maybe is exactly because she was his first friend for years, and no matter how mean or a bitch she is with others, that can't change the fact she was there for him before anyone for years, maybe if she was not there he would be more evil than heroic; committed suicide or whatever, the point is, he has a very big spot in his heart for her and simply can't cut his relationship because he now "has" more friends, what keeps him tied to Chloé is his lonely past, and his actual present can't and probably won't do nothing to change that more than him telling her to, let's say, fuck off in a gentle manner when she's being mean, which sadly is most of the time.
    • Speaking as someone who hasn't actually watched the show, isn't it also possible that Adrien remembers what it was like to only have one friend and doesn't think that Chloé deserves that?
    • Wouldn't she still have Kim and Sabrina for that matter?
    • Bear in mind also that severing ties with someone like that is difficult enough even if you're in a situation where you know you're not going to see them again. If you're still seeing them every day in class, that makes it unbelievably awkward. In cases where the "friend" in question is particularly toxic, they will even sometimes try to negatively influence the way everyone else in the class views you. Granted, it's unlikely Chloé would go that far (and even if she did, it wouldn't work), but she could still make a big scene and generally drag everyone else into it.
    • On a more serious note for this question, it's canon that Adrien has an incredibly neglectful home life, which is a form of emotional abuse. Kids who grow up in homes like that tend to be incredibly eager to please, and terrified of any kind of rejection. It makes perfect sense that Adrien is keeping up a friendship with somebody he doesn't like, because emotionally, he's pretty fragile. He'd be too afraid to end it. And even if Chloé's father couldn't actually do anything about Adrien chewing out Chloé, he would still inform Gabriel, and Adrien probably knows it. Due to the whole desperate for approval thing, Adrien is especially desperate to please his father. That would stop Adrien from doing anything that might disappoint him. And yes, all of this is way too dark for a kids show, but it's heavily implied, and makes sense. Adrien's miserable home life basically means that it's almost impossible for him to remove himself from toxic or even flat-out abusive situations, platonic or romantic. Enjoy your angst fuel.
    • Slightly subverted the above in the Christmas episode and Simon says, where it is shown in canon that Gabriel actually cares for Adrien a great deal, despite his absentee fathering. It could still be the case that Adrien either doesn't know he can appeal to his father, or simply doesn't want to risk displeasing him even slightly, but it seems pretty certain than any threat to Adrien, be it physical or emotional, will be dealt with swiftly and mercilessly. If Gabe found out Adrien was being harassed by Chloé, particularly if he saw the way she threw herself at him or heard her, admittedly, gold-digger like way of referring to his son? Yeah Gabe wouldn't take that sitting down.
    • Hell yeah. Gabe would break her to pieces.
    • In "Despair Bear", he is finally pushed too far and tells her that she either needs to start shaping up or their friendship is over. So there you go.

     Akumatized Heroes? 
  • What would happen if either Marinette or Adrien will be akumatized?
    • People like to think that Adrien would become Chat Blanc. People used to think that Marinette would become something puppet themed, but we already have a villain named after marionettes.
    • No, I meant was, if they will be akumatized, how about their miraculous? Would Hawk Moth know that they are Ladybug or Chat Noir? Are they immune from akumazations, considering that they apparently went through some negative emotions?
    • Probably Tikki and Plagg would see the akuma before it could corrupt Marinette or Adrien, if either of them could fall prey to corruption. Then cue the scene of a kwami swallowing the butterfly and giving a loud burp, or shooing it away. In all seriousness, though, Hawk Moth would most likely know and corrupt them just enough to have them attack the other for their Miraculous.
    • I believe that Marinette and Adrian were chosen specifically because out of everyone else, they were the least likely to become akumatized. On the off chance that one of them do become akumatized, I imagine that the moment Hawk Moth commands her/him to bring him the miraculouses, the akumatized hero would be like "Sure, I have one of them right here" and Hawk Moth would respond with "Oh... well, that was easy." I'd like to imagine, however, that the Akumatization powers stacks with the Miraculous powers, creating the most uber-overpowered supervillain of them all.
    • I think the Miraculous would probably be treated as just normal jewellery if Adrien or Marinette were akumatised, and the kwami would either be rendered inert, lose their power/s, or be totally fine but unable to communicate with Adrien (Plagg) or Marinette (Tikki). Because akumatised people seem to lose themselves in their new identity, the Miraculous of whichever was akumatised might actually be safe, because they're told to take Ladybug and Cat Noir's Miraculous. Can't exactly take them if the hero in question doesn't appear, even if that's because the akumatised person in question is Ladybug or Cat Noir. Even if they DO remember they're Ladybug/Cat Noir, though, we know Hawk Moth wants them both at the same time (like he won't take Cat Noir's ring and then wait to get Ladybug's earrings- he wants them both at the exact same time), so Akumatised Marinette wouldn't just remove her earrings and hand them over until she got Cat Noir's ring.
    • The power associated with the moth akuma is the ability to grant powers to people who don't have a miraculous. Wouldn't this prevent Marinette and Adrien from becoming akumatized in the first place?
    • We observe in "The Collector" that before Gabriel gets akumatized, he removes his own Miraculous. So it appears that wearing a Miraculous protects its wearer from akumatization.
    • He removes his miraculous so they don't learn his identity, so the doubt remains if Miraculous holders can actually be akumatized.
    • It may also be that he's immune to his own powers, similarly to Cat Noir being immune to catacylsm.
    • But Marinette, who was suspecting Gabriel of being Hawk Moth before this, stops suspecting him specifically because he was akumatized. What's more, Chat and Master Fu agree with her. This suggests that it's a well-known fact that people with miraculous can't be akumatized; which makes total sense since the original purpose of the Butterfly Miraculous' power is to make ordinary people into superheroes. There would be no reason for a Butterfly Miraculous holder on the same team as the other heroes to give them powers when they already have them.
    • After "Queen Wasp", it's revealed that Miraculous users can actually be Akumaized as showed with Chloe as Queen Bee/Queen Wasp. Though finding one for Marinette that hasn't done by fanart artist or fanfiction writer is going to very hard for the Zag Toon team.

    Lila's Lies 
  • How come nobody saw through some of Lila's lies? At the very least, Alya, a dedicated Ladybug fan who's constantly following her, should have known that Lila wasn't present during an Akuma attack and was never spotted near Ladybug, and we've also never seen Ladybug or Chat fight any common criminals. This is especially egregious if being friends with Ladybug wasn't the only thing she lied about: Having a famous musician write a song about you is something that would have been on some entertainment news website, and the lack of any such source would easily out her as a liar.
    • (Just to get this out of the way: Ladybug and Chat having never been seen fighting non-akumatized people doesn't prove they don't do this; even some of the akuma attacks happen off-screen and are only seen in news reports, so who knows.)
      People are too excited about celebrities and too lazy to do immediate fact-checking, which is the exact flaw Lila exploits. Prince Ali, whom she claims to know, isn't around at the time; the song could've been any song she could point to with lyrics that could even remotely seem to be about her. The whole incident that led to her getting akumatized was basically the result of her not doing her own fact-checking and not expecting Ladybug to actually show up at that moment (because she only got her information from a book on Miraculouses and didn't realize the current Ladybug is a normal schoolgirl prone to jealousy).
    • Then why didn't she realize that indirectly mocking Ladybug when trying to prop up Volpina as being awesome wasn't the best way to endear herself to Adrien, a Ladybug fan? The fact that she insists that Volpina is more popular than Ladybug would naturally be a red flag to Adrien, as Ladybug is the biggest hero in Paris and regularly on the news. Trying to do research on Volpina would definitely turn up stuff on previous Fox Miraculous wielders, but shouldn't it be difficult for a hero from years and years ago to be as popular as an active one in a major city?
      Because Lila didn't think her Celebrity Lie through; talking about Ladybug in a school where Ladybug has saved most of a classroom from corruption lacked remarkable foresight. At some point later on, Adrien would have realized it, or Chloé, given she's Ladybug's biggest fan, or Alya, with her Intrepid Reporter skills. Ladybug just happened to speed up the lie-busting process.
    • Simple. Lila didn't know that Adrien was a fan of Ladybug. At least not Ladybug specifically. When Lila saw Adrien's book, she jumped to the conclusion that he was a fan of superheroes in general and that he liked Ladybug because she was the 'best' superhero (rather than because he had a crush on her). Ergo, she swipes the book and makes up a lie about another hero she finds (who is not around to refute her lies) being her ancestor and more powerful than Ladybug so that Adrien will transfer his adoration of Ladybug to her. Classic liar one-upmanship really.
    • On Ladybug and Cat Noir fighting non-akuma villains: Under normal circumstances, the butterfly Miraculous is possessed by someone who isn't evil, or is inactive. There aren't usually akuma-style villains around to fight, so previous holders of the Cat and Ladybug Miraculouses, such as Hercules and Saint George, must have had other villains to fight. The current akuma crisis is due to someone evil getting hold of the Butterfly Miraculous.
    • One of Marinette's flashbacks shows her getting a cat down from a tree, so she at least does more than just crime-fighting. Chat Noir might not, because his father's a weird mix of being neglectful and controlling.
    • I think the oddest part of the episode is that people like Alya are acting weird. There's no way Chloé would believe Jagged Stone wrote a song about Lila and not her. It's not like Alya to shove Marinette's concerns aside for something like hits on her Ladyblog. And that in itself is strange- why would she have such high hits on that interview when Alya by this point has already interviewed the actual Ladybug? Wouldn't that one have high views? And plenty of people have been saved by Ladybug and Cat Noir. It's not that remarkable. Alya herself was personally saved ("Pharaoh" and "Animan"), Mylene ("Stoneheart"), Nino ("Animan"), and Chloé (many times over, but notably in "Stoneheart" and "Kung Food"). She was also involved in saving most of the class in "Horrificator". The fact that she saved Lila's life isn't that impressive since this episode has to be chronologically the last one in Season 1. So it's weird that anyone would care about that, and it's weird that interview would have so many hits after "The Mime". The fact that Adrien, who is close to Ladybug himself and knows that they're very close because she's said as much herself, is interested in Lila because she's "very close friends with Ladybug", is odd. But, it's not that everyone bought Lila's lies that's weird to me, it's the fact that other people who have not heard her lies are interested in her (as implied by Alya's comment about her Ladyblog). It's as if Lila is a kind of diluted Living Aphrodisiac, where instead of the interest in her being sexual, it's built around simply being adored and admired, with nobody having a problem believing anything she says. That's what's weird to me.
    • Maybe everyone is just humoring Lila? They probably know she has been lying and just decided to roll with them because she’s the new girl. They want her to feel special and just decided to play along with the lies. Obviously Marinette and Adrian didn’t get the memo (they were probably catching an akuma that night?).
      • "Chameleon" shows that this is not the case. There's a part where Marinette tells Alya and Nino that Lila is a liar, and they're both surprised to hear this. And speaking of "Chameleon", in the same episode, Lila actually slips up with one of her lies in front of everyone. At one point she says she has tinnitus in her left ear, then later says it's the right. Conveniently enough, Marinette and Adrien are the only ones who notice, and the only reason Lila manages to get away with it is that Adrien convinces Marinette not to expose her.

    Blind Kwamis 
  • Kwamis have the ability to sense each other. Tikki and Plagg must be aware of their constant proximity to one another. Are they aware of the rather ironic identities of their opposites' Miraculous user? In other words, does Tikki know Adrien is Chat Noir, and does Plagg know Marinette is Ladybug?
    • It's possible that A) they know but respect the kids' desires for secrecy or B) that unless certain criteria is met, they aren't allowed to know, leading to their sensing abilities being toned down so they know that the other is in Paris but not who they're partnered with.
    • We also don't know the limits. The one time a kwami is known to sense another in canon was when Wayzz sensed that Nooru was being used for evil in the origin episodes. In this case Wayzz did not know where Nooru was or who was using him. So as the above says it's possible that Tikki and Plagg know that the other is somewhere in Paris, and could even know they're in the same room, but have no way of knowing who they're with.
    • Aren't you all overthinking it? Isn't it possible sensing other kwami is just a specific skill of the Turtle kwami, and not the others? Considering the position Master Fu seems to have, it's reasonable that the Turtle Miraculous is the keeper of the other Miraculous and can sense when the others are around or active, but the other kwami can't sense each other. Wayzz's powers probably aren't just healing the other kwami, but being able to sense them, even if it's only because the kwami in question needs aid.
    • This does work with what we've seen of Plagg's behaviour- he fails to notice the Peacock Miraculous and never comments about Lila not having a true Miraculous. Tikki knows she's lying, so she never comments about the fake Fox Miraculous. However, while that theory does look very nice on paper, it contrasts with Word of God's statement that it was 'weird' for Plagg to not notice the Peacock Brooch. That is, he should have noticed it, but for some reason, did not. This may mean Plagg and Tikki should be able to sense each other, but for whatever reason, cannot. It's also worth noting that Tikki seems to be able to sense Wayzz, as she knows exactly where to go to get help in "Princess Fragrance". It's possible that secretive Tikki conceals herself from Plagg, but there's also the possibility that Plagg is the problem, and he cannot sense other Miraculous or kwami, nor can he be sensed. It's worth talking about how he's been near three of the seven for a fact, Adrien was convinced they were near one at another point, and there's two he may have been around. He's only never been around the Bee Comb. He's definitely been near the Ladybug ("Gamer"), Turtle ("Stoneheart") and Black Cat ("Lady Wifi", counting only the time it came off and went inert) ones, Adrien thought they were near the Fox one ("Volpina") and Plagg never thought this was strange, and he may have been around the Peacock ("Volpina") and Moth ("Simon Says") ones. I say "may" regarding the Peacock one because it's been hinted via Word of God that it may not be the true Peacock Miraculous.
    • In Dark Owl, we see Plagg and Tikki see each other, and they're both shocked. They seem to decide to keep it a secret to respect Adrien and Marinette's wishes.

    Why Not Turn People With Mental Issues into Akumas? 
  • From the "we need to keep this child-friendly" perspective, it makes sense why Hawk Moth wouldn't be allowed to target anyone in the show who might be suffering from severe anxiety, depression, or anger, but he mainly targets people who suffer temporary problems that are related to their external circumstances. Common sense would dictate that Paris would have a population of people whose problems aren't so easily resolved, and that Hawk Moth would be able to trace them easily while scouring the city for victims; what would be the in-universe reason for Hawk Moth not wanting to go after war veterans, for example, as opposed to teenagers and adults who get righteously furious?
    • There are a number of possibilities, from Hawk Moth finding it easier to make a deal with someone in an unexpected low than someone who's always feeling down to not finding any with characteristics he wants to not wanting to further stigmatize the mentally ill to that not making for as good of a plot.
    • Or maybe it's that when a person who has depression gets akumatised, it'd be weaker then a normal person getting akumatized? Maybe due to the fact that if, say, a happy person gets something important taken away from them, they'd be more desperate to get it back in comparison to a person who has depression?
    • Hawk Moth uses people's frustration with a specific problem or person. Nathaniel wanted revenge on Chloé, for example, so Hawk Moth was able to make a deal. A person who suffers from depression might be upset, but their problems are more abstract and therefore more difficult to combat via an offer of power. It's possible for a person with mental issues to be akumatised, but they're no more predisposed to it than anyone else.
    • Or perhaps, it would be much more difficult to control people who aren't in a state of emotional flux. Sociopaths, like serial killers who would make terrifying akuma, could conceivably be smarter or more mentally strong than the butterfly wielder, wrenching control away from him, and conversely people with depression would not have the Lazer Guided Revenge that single-episode misfortune characters do, who have clear distress targets to go after. Let us not forget that this miraculous usually creates PALADINS. The powers are specific to RIGHTING A WRONG. In a subverted way, all the people who the butterfly corrupts in season one could have conceivably become a hero for their own cause, but instead are turned to villains. Possibly, the only way for the butterfly to be active is if there is a chance for a PALADIN, allowing Hawk Moth to create a corrupted paladin instead. This would automatically eliminate people with mental illness or sociopaths, as the criteria for Paladin making would probably be absent in their cases.
    • I always thought it was something like this too, the original power was to create other superheroes so he requires not just a powerful emotion, but a problem that needs to be addressed, and similarly, the desire to actually address the problem. He senses peoples' desire to fix what they see as a great injustice, and just picks situations he can corrupt from there.
    • Word of God actually explained this, to some degree: the reason Adrien is immune to akumatization isn't because he's a Miraculous holder, it's because he's used to disappointment. So presumably it would be the same for someone living with a chronic condition like depression or PTSD; you only get akumatized when your negative emotions are stronger than they usually are.
    • Additionally, who says that the villains we see in episodes are the only villains Ladybug and Cat Noir fight? We know of at least one villain that was taken down off-screen, so it's possible that we only get to see the ones that actually lead to interesting plots.
      • Alteranatively, they decided that stories dealing with such mental health issues was deemed too dark for children. Miraculous Ladybug was originally meant for an older audience, after all.
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    Doesn't Alya Have Editing Software? 
  • Couldn't she just remove Ladybug's mask in an image editing program?
    • Even if she does, and sees her best friend Cute Clumsy Girl Marinette, would Alya actually believe that Marinette has it in her to save the city on a regular basis? She gave up the idea that Adrien was Cat when Marinette says that Cat is a goofball and Adrien isn't.
    • She'd need one of those magic computers from CSI for that; normal editing software would just leave a mask-shaped hole in the picture.
    • Not necessarily. If she took samples of the skin tone from around the mask, colored over it, and maybe blurred it a bit to make it look more natural, she would have a picture that kind of looks like Marinette.

    What if Marinette put on weight? 
  • If Marinette gained a noticeable amount of weight, would it also show on Ladybug or would her magic suit retain her usual figure?
    • The only thing that change when she transforms is her clothes, so whatever physical changes Marinette may go through would probably remain in Ladybug. That said, can Marinette and Adrien change their outfits? If Ladybug wanted some pockets, could she do the change, would she have to ask Tikki for it, or would it be impossible altogether?
    • Yes, in answer to the question about the suits being able to change. We've seen the book about Miraculouses, and the outfits are very different. It's likely the Miraculous suits change to suit its user in the best way and fit in accordance with the times. Doodles Astuc has done of a future, adult Ladybug also change the suit. I expect if Marinette needed or wanted pockets (for instance), her suit would acquire them.
    • If Marinette put on weight, her heroine guise would become known as "LadyBIG".

     Selective Hammerspace? 
  • Adrien and Marinette's clothes and personal objects vanish when they transform, so how did Cat Noir have Chloé's bracelet in his pocket in Rogercop and, especially, how did Ladybug have that book anywhere on her person in The Pharaoh?
    • In the case of the bracelet, it might have rematerialised from hammerspace in Cat Noir's pocket because he was specifically looking for it. Regarding the book, it might have fallen out of hammerspace accidentally, since she's being swung around after a helicopter. Best guess I got.

     Lila being suddenly popular 
  • How does Lila manage to impress everyone in the morning before Marinette arrives, considering that none of her lies should be all that impressive to people? For example, Rose is heard fangirling over the fact that Lila said she knows Prince Ali - despite the fact that Rose herself has already met him, and went off to spend a whole afternoon with him at the children's hospital. Lila shouldn't have been able to tell her anything she wouldn't already know about him, and chances are if she got something wrong Rose should have picked up on it easily. Likewise, Chloé is jealous that Jagged Stone wrote a song about Lila, which is quite weird of her considering Jagged Stone seems to live two floors down from her for most of the season, and she made it clear she prefers Mister XY's sort of music anyway. More importantly, Alya says Lila gave her an "exclusive interview" because "Ladybug saved her life once" - which is ridiculous because Ladybug has saved pretty much everyone in Paris multiple times, including personally saving Alya herself from being sacrificed to the Egyptian sun-god. And why would a Lila interview have more hits on the Ladyblog than all her other videos, given that those videos include a livestream of her being kidnapped by The Pharaoh, actual interviews and sightings of Ladybug, and the exclusive footage of Lady Wifi talking about her plan? So, all that being the case: even if they believe Lila's lies, why is everyone so immediately awed and impressed by them?
    • Maybe it was some kind of spell? Like a popularity spell? That's the kind of thing that typically happens when popularity spells go into play. We don't know much about Lila, after all. Maybe she or someone she met has the ability to do that, but the spell broke?
    • Or maybe the episode is a lot sooner in the timeline than we think, so that Alya has not yet had exclusive interviews herself, Rose has not yet met Prince Ali, Jagged has not yet moved into Let Grande Paris, and so the same with all the other lies.
    • The Volpina episode being earlier in the sequence than the airing date suggests is the only solution that makes sense. This way, all the activities that happen in season one are lampshaded here: Nino being interested in film as well as music; Rose being into Prince Ali; Jagged Stone being known to Chloé (even though she doesn't like his music) so she can advise her dad not to throw him out of LGP hotel when he shows up with a crocodile; Alya not yet having exclusive interviews on the ladyblog; Ladybug not yet being as incredibly popular as she is later in the series, as perhaps she has only just started appearing. The only problem would be where Lila was the REST of the episodes, if this is true. Possibly she changed schools, possibly she was lying low after her humiliation; season 2 will probably clear it. Hopefully.
    • And now this has, rather predictably, been debunked, with Season 2 beginning immediately after the end of "Volpina" and Marinette referring to her earlier meeting with Master Fu during "Princess Fragrance". So the Prince Ali mention in "Volpina" and Rose's reaction to it still doesn't quite make sense, though I guess it's still possible that Jagged Stone's appearances hadn't happened yet.

     Adrien at school 
  • In the origin story, if Adrien was attending school without his father's permission... then who the hell enrolled him?
    • His mother left at some point between December (the Christmas episode was the first Christmas they spent without her) and September. Maybe she arranged his transfer in May or June, and then disappeared in the summer?
    • Maybe he did a Haruhi Fujioka and enrolled himself?
    • It may also be entirely possible that Chloé enrolled him, as she seems to have a lot of sway at school.
    • Given that Nathalie is in charge of his schedule and taking care of him she is also a likely candidate and she only brought him back home because Gabriel found out about it.

     "Our identities must remain a secret" 
  • Marinette says this on two occasions, but doesn't seem happy about it and never exactly discourages Cat Noir's playful banter about how they might know each other in real life, outside dismissing the possibility in an equally playful tone. She's also very casual about Alya's message in "Lady Wifi" that she "knows who the real Ladybug is". Tikki, on the other hand, panics whenever something like that happens. It's also Tikki who is most relieved in the same episode when they barely avoid detransforming in front of Cat Noir. So does Marinette herself truly want to keep her identity secret from Cat Noir, or was it one of the rules Tikki gave her offscreen at the very start? We know she gave Marinette offscreen instructions, since Marinette asks her to confirm about the Lucky Charm. Unlike Plagg, Tikki is adamant against Marientte's identity being known to anyone but Marinette herself. So, is the rule about the identities one of Tikki's, or is it Marinette's rule? If it is one of Tikki's rules, why does she have it?
    • I suspect it is Tikki's rule and probably ultimately has something to do with what happened to the previous Ladybug. We know that Marinette was sorely tempted, we know that Chat Noir flat out wanted to know, we even know that Plagg essentially told him to sneak a peek. Which means you most likely don't suffer any penalties for it. It's unlikely that Plagg and Tikki have never met and Plagg knows what Adrian would feel like if he hurt Ladybug so it's clearly Tikki's rule.
    • Well, it's clear there's no penalties, or if there are, Plagg doesn't care, but what could make Tikki so afraid of Marinette's identity being known, even if it's just by Cat Noir? Does Plagg know this is Tikki's rule and treats it like a game trying to find out who Ladybug is? Does it have to do with a past Ladybug, or is it fear Cat Noir could tell Hawk Moth in the event he gets akumatised or Brainwashed and Crazy? Why doesn't she want Ladybug to know who Cat Noir is? Why does Tikki enforce her rule even with someone who knows what she is? The fact that she makes Marinette lie in "Princess Fragrance" bothers me. If her rule comes from what happened to a past Ladybug, what happened? Was the past Ladybug the mistake Fu talks about, and if so, what did s/he do? Did she rat out Cat Noir's identity and it got Cat Noir killed? Did learning who her Cat Noir was upset her in some way, or did his learning who she was affect her badly? I can understand her being against the public knowing who she is, but why hide it from Cat Noir and Alya? If Alya knows Ladybug is Marinette, she'll stop trying to find out and keep the secret because Alya is familiar with superhero tropes (which is probably the only reason she really cares who Ladybug and Cat Noir are in the first place, since nobody else seems to).
    • Cat Noir tends to end up possessed, so Tikki could be afraid of Hawk Moth using a possessed Cat Noir to learn Ladybug's identity. As for Alya, she is trying to expose Ladybug in first place and she either doesn't realize the danger she puts Ladybug into for doing it or doesn't care. Not exactly confidant material.
    • What the person right before you said is that the likely reason why Alya wants to know who Ladybug is behind the mask is because she's Genre Savvy about superhero tropes, probably more than actual curiosity. Alya knows there's always an Intrepid Reporter determined to "expose" the hero and find out who they are. She'd have to, if she's as big a fan of superheroes as she's painted as when she first meets Marinette. If Alya finds out Marinette, her best friend who she thinks of like a sister, is Ladybug, she'd keep the secret because she's a good friend and that's what friends do. Alya isn't so selfish that she'd rat Marinette out just for views on the site. I think if she exposed her in a video on the site, she'd feel horrible about it.
    • Regardless of her intentions she has posted her discoveries on the internet. Only her video in The Pharaoh narrows the search enormously, she is lucky that Hawk Moth doesn't know about the blog or isn't trying to learn Ladybug's identity at all. Just that incident shows a worrisome lack of judgement on her part.
    • I assumed that when Tiki said it in the first place she meant civilians couldn't know Ladybug was Marinette because it would be too dangerous, both potentially making them targets and risking them exposing her in one way or another but... well let's be honest here, Mari, and a lot of other characters, have had a lot of misunderstandings, it's possible that she assumed no one could know, and so she keeps Chat out of the loop, and perhaps Tiki and Master Fu didn't realize and assume Mari simply wishes to keep her lives separate by not telling Chat.
    • As of "Kwamibuster" a harsh penalty is revealed (retconned): if either Ladybug or Chat Noir learns the identity of their partner then both must give up their Miraculouses. This rule seems to apply only to them: Carapace and Rena Rouge know each other's identities, for example. This may be because the wish-granting power of the combined Cat and Ladybug Miraculouses demands extra security. If one got akumatized and compromised the other then both Miraculouses could be lost very quickly.
  • Marinette's two friends find out about each other's identity. Literally nothing happens, and they keep their powers. Likewise, Hawk Moth knows Peacock's identity. Is there something special about those two, or is someone trolling the two of them?
    • The real question how between Chloe, Adrian and Gabriel they haven't figured out who each other. Gabriel deosn't really seem interested but Marionette, Chloe, Adrian and even Ayla should be able to see through the "I got locked in a locker and other lame excuses they both use. Chloe may be a brat but she's not an idiot, all miraculous users come to me, Ladybug and Cat Noir are suspiciously absent and so is Marionette and Adrian. That's before you realize their masks don't cover much. This isn't like Batman or even Superman managing to keep it hidden. The idea that the playboy Bruce Wayne is actually Batman is farfetched. And for Superman its heavily implied in many stories that Louis Lane put it together ages ago and Jimmy Olson probably knows as well. Worse Hawk Moth knows several of the Miraculous wears as of season 3 as does Chloe. A simple glance over the "ridiculous" choices should have set Chloe right on the path of "oh this is the loser's club." She'd probably miss Adrian because she probably has a blind spot there but Marionette should have been screwed.

     The kwami are liars - Origins 
  • If this is truly the first time that Nooroo has been used for evil, and the kwami usually have other functions, how do the Ladybug and Black Cat miraculous seem tailor made to counter his powers, even with Ladybug having an ability to purify akuma, reverse all akuma related damage and free People from its mind control? All those things seem awfully akuma specific. If Ladybug were fighting a war against other weapons, would she be able to reverse the damage of those too? Can she reverse bullets and bombs? If the cleansing power and the healing wave are akuma specific, why did they exist if this is the first time Nooroo has been corrupted and/or the Ladybug miraculous is not created as a foil for the butterfly? It seems too oddly specific, and yet none of the flashbacks in origins have a Ladybug fighting against the butterfly. One of the users is even hinted to have been Joan of Arc, who went to war against the English. A true head scratcher for me.
    • I was gonna ask that myself, but then I thought about why so I could answer. It's possible that Ladybug has those powers in case an akuma goes rogue. Even if the Moth Miraculous holder releases them from their powers, or someone else does, the akuma might be tainted and need Ladybug to purify it before it can be used again. That is, the purification of akuma isn't her main power, it's just the one she's forced to primarily use for the show.
    • Well, to be fair, we have seen Ladybug use her Ladybug in something unrelated to the Akuma(... Technically) In the Bubble episode, she uses the lucky charm to prevent Chloé to have a slow dance with Adrien, so her powers do have other uses. And her World-Healing Wave also reverts whatever Chat Noir's Cataclysm destroys, so her power might actually revert *all* other Miraculous powers(Or at least the destructive consequences of them).. the purification... I got nothing. Chat Noir's powers seem more generic, tho.
    • I believe the Ladybug's powers are actually meant to counteract magic in general, not akumas. She repairs damage done by Cataclysm, after all. The Ladybug Miraculous can repair damage with Miraculous Ladybug, but only damage caused directly by magic. Ladybug isn't able to fix, for instance, the poster of Adrien in "Dark Cupid" that Sabrina drew on, because magic wasn't involved in the vandalising. None of the things destroyed by people under Dark Cupid's influence were fixed that we saw. Because Timebreaker went back in time, everything that happened was a result of magic, so the watch got fixed, since time travel was why it broke the second time. I think all of the akumatised objects are repaired because they're infused with magic. As to Cat Noir, I think we haven't seen the full extent of his powers, because he doesn't have an equivalent to "Miraculous Ladybug". Catalysm is his Lucky Charm.
    • It's been confirmed that the Ladybug and Black Cat Miraculouses could potentially grant much greater power than Marinette and Adrien currently have if their full potential were unlocked, so maybe Marinette was granted those specific powers as her "starter abilities" because those were the powers needed to counter the misuse of Nooroo.
    • There's a fairly simple answer for this: If you were creating incredibly powerful objects to be used as weapons for fighting evil, wouldn't you want some of them to be able to counter each other in case they ever fell into the wrong hands? It's a checks and balances thing.

     Miraculous in Japan 
  • One of the creators of the show is the japanese Toei Animation, but why not aired in Japan?
    • Going by some of fan art I saw floating around Pixiv, I think it did, however, probably on certain outlets.

     No Marinette or Adrien in Horrificator? 
  • Why is it that in Horrificator, nobody comments on the fact that Adrien and Marinette are not there once the slime pods are erased? Both of them pretended to be captured by Horrificator so they could transform and then pretended they were put in the same room as the others to keep up the charade. Yet nobody notices they aren't there after the Miraculous Ladybug is done cleaning up, not even after they see the footage Nino records of the entire thing. And he is recording while Miraculous Ladybug is cleaning up, you see he's recording right after they finish "Smelly Wolf". Why did nobody notice?
    • just noticed this too. Even if everyone was distracted, rewatching the video should revealed something was off.

     Weather Girl, my Weather Girl 
  • So I have a few questions- how did Aurore lose so badly when it was down to her and just one other contestant out of 5,000? Surely it should have been closer than 82 to 18, which are clearly percentages. If she was that unpopular, why was the cheering of her name audible enough that she thought she had a chance of winning? If she was that unpopular, how did she make it to the end? On a different note, why is Aurore noticing the akuma treated as "Early Installment Weirdness"? She clearly looked up because of the elevator malfunction, and saw the akuma coming. Whether the akuma stopped the elevator or not is irrelevant, anyone who's in an elevator that suddenly stops is going to look around. She's the only one who is put in a position like that- Aurore was in a unique situation, where she was looking directly at the only point of entry to her the akuma had and could see it coming. She's also the only one who was in such a confined space. All of the other victims have been out in the open and not looking at their item that gets akumatised. It seems weird to say it's "Early Installment Weirdness" when we don't know if other people can't do the same. One last thing- why is Aurore's reaction considered her being a Sore Loser, but Max is a Graceful Loser, when both are pretty angry at losing and have similar rants when alone? Is it solely because Aurore, who is standing out of sight of the cameras meaning she's not supposed to go in frame, didn't congratulate Mireille?
    • Max and Aurore both absolutely qualify as Sore Losers - a genuine Graceful Loser probably wouldn't have attracted Hawk Moth's attention - but yeah, the fact that Aurore runs off set immediately without even pretending to congratulate her for the camera (and I'd expect there to be an opportunity for her to do so on most reality shows) is definitely a strike against her.
    • Well, a Graceful Loser would still be upset at their loss, but also genuinely happy for their opponent. You know, that thing Max definitely was not, even after having the time to cool down. My question about this was more related to the fans's treatment of Aurore and Max. Max isn't even good at pretending to be a Graceful Loser- his congratulations is clearly insincere and meant to make her feel bad. Aurore is not stopped when she goes to leave, she's just mocked more by Alex. So she was standing there of her own volition, even after being humiliated on national television. She could only be standing there of her own will to talk with Mireille. But the fans side with Max and criticise Aurore. Seems wrong.
    • Max isn't trying to make Marinette feel bad, he's trying to be a Graceful Loser because he knows it's the right thing for a losing player to do. He manfully says the proper things, following the correct form, but is too devastated to be really convincing. He then goes off to deal with his disappointment alone...there's no anger in his voice until afterwards, when the initial shock of the completely unexpected loss has had a chance to wear off. Whether (without the akuma) he would have been able to work out his anger on his own, or would have retained a grudge afterwards, is impossible to know...but he did try to do the right thing.
    • As for the Early Installment Weirdness thing, I guess it's just there because we haven't seen them do it the same way again. And it's not like they couldn't, since there have been other victims who had their back to the wall when the butterfly approached from the front, and who just happened to not be looking the right way. On rewatch, it actually struck me as maybe a deliberate choice to do it that way the first time, to establish that even when the victim is scared and trying to fight off the butterfly, they can still get corrupted, thus absolving any future victims for seemingly accepting the Deal with the Devil. (And if that was the intention, it's kind of a nice touch that they gave that moment to someone who would have come across as a one-note Sore Loser otherwise, instead of, say, Alya or Nino.)
    • Well, other people have been against walls, like Alya, but Aurore is the only one where the akuma has only one point of entry- the front. Aurore is the only one transformed in a small, enclosed space with only one way in or out. She's also the only one to have a disruption cause her to look up in the first place. She is in a very unique situation, and is the only one who even makes sense to look up.
    • In "Zombizou", Ms. Bustier also sees the akuma coming and tries to fight it off (and actually puts up one hell of a fight). It's probably coincidence that Aurore happened to be able to see it coming.
    • It's not that surprising that Aurore would lose so badly during the finals. It simply turned out that most people who voted for her against whoever she competed against during the previous stages wouldn't vote for her against Mireille. As for the Aurore fans appearing on TV, they're likely less than 18 percent. There's no telling how many people voted or if there's any rule forbidding people from voting more than once.
    • If Aurore lost by "half a million votes" and she only got 18% of the votes, how many votes were there? There's no reason she should have lost that badly. There's absolutely no reason why she should have been the clear loser, it isn't as if the other 4,998 people were eliminated in one round. So yeah, it's pretty surprising it wasn't closer.
    • Assuming that the number was exactly half a million votes, there would be a total of 781,250 votes cast, with Aurore getting 140,625 of them. Both of these numbers seem really low.

     Jealousy and Akumatisation 
  • Jealousy is why Max and Theo, and to a partial degree Aurore, were akumatised. Why, then, has Marinette's jealousy never gotten her akumatised when her jealousy is much more active and stronger than anything Max, Aurore, and Theo exhibit? She gets jealousy and angry, especially in "Volpina" where her jealousy drives her to humiliate Lila. Does Hawk Moth leave her be because Marinette's jealousy is possibly already destructive without his help? Is her jealousy not strong enough? Her "optimism" shield can't protect her from her jealousy- Marinette's envy almost puts Tinker Bell to shame. So why doesn't her jealousy get her akumatised?
    • Maybe Chloé's bullying has made her strong enough to not hit rock bottom like the other people akumatized? It's also worth noting that most people who get akumatized are wallowing in self-pity or generally stewing in hate/anger, but Marinette *usually* has a plan about what to do in any given situation, like in the Lila case, if she had just been muttering to herself about what a lying liar who lies Lila was, she would probably maybe be akumatized, but since she actually thought on exposing her, she worked on her jealousy in a "healthy" manner?
    • But she didn't have a plan the whole time, and she does stand there and stew in her jealousy because Tikki makes her do so until she can get the book.
    • Word of God has stated that Marinette would be very difficult - close to impossible actually - for Hawk Moth to akumatize due to her optimism.
    • But she isn't being optimistic when she's jealous- she's consumed by her jealousy. She doesn't turn her thinking around to being positive when she's jealous.
    • The negative emotions that get people akumatized are accompanied by feelings of impotency. In other words, they are angry/sad/jealous/whatever, but they also feel powerless to act upon it and proceed to stew in their negative emotionsnote . Marinette is a lot of things when she's jealous, but she's not the kind to stew in her jealousy. Not when there's delicious scenery to chew on. Or, to put it another way, akumatization needs an emotional low to take hold and Marinette is just a little too high energy (even at her worst) to sustain such a state.
    • As I mention in another issue above, we observe in "The Collector" that before Gabriel gets akumatized, he removes his own Miraculous. So it appears that wearing a Miraculous protects its wearer from akumatization.
    • Or he just wanted to keep it out of harm's way or from being noticed. He wasn't wearing his cravat when he was transformed. According to Word of God, the Miraculous doesn't protect you, your personality does.
    • Or perhaps the immunity is specific to the Butterfly Miraculous in the sense of No-Self Buffs.

     Security Systems and False Alarms 
  • In the second season episode "Despair Bear", the school principal punishes everyone (except Chloe) because nobody owned up to pulling off a false call to the fire department. How come the principal simply didn't review the school security cameras or pull the phone records to identify the guilty party?
    • Chloé would have complained about her phone being inspected, but still... He also didn't ask the fire department, who would have been able to tell the caller was female. And there is also the fact that the call was made from a cellphone, so from their point of view, it wasn't 100% sure the caller was a student.
    • In France there are (typically) no security cameras in middle-school and high-school classroom (maybe one for the front entrance and a couple more at some strategic places in the building but nowhere near enough to be a threat to Chloé's plots). For the phone records it can work but I'm not sure the headmaster can legally do it because of french laws on privacy (and the legality of it is something you need to keep in mind when one of the pupil is the daughter of someone as influent and politically savvy as Mr. Bourgeois)
    • Actually... what if they had asked the fire department to identify the number that had called them?

     "Volpina": Where was the Miraculous book after Marinette transformed? 
  • In "Volpina", what happened to Gabriel's Miraculous book that Marinette had, from the time she transformed in the park until she was reading the book in her room toward the end of the episode? For the record, Marinette handed the book to Tikki, who fell to the ground from the weight of it, out of shot, followed by the regular transformation sequence. It seems to have been left on the ground. Or did Marinette have it concealed on her person like that much-larger-than-pocket-size "Bat-Shield" that Adam West carried with him?
    • If memory serves, Adrien and Plagg put it back in the closet.

     Miraculous And Personalities 
  • This is about Hawk Moth and his civilian identity as Gabriel Agreste. As Gabriel, he is quiet, reclusive and restrained. In contrast, Hawk Moth is loud and maniacal, even Chewing the Scenery at times. Does Hawk Moth's alter ego simply have a split personality? Is this the effects of the Butterfly Miraculous on his psychological frame of mind? Or could this be something else?
    • Ladybug and Chat Noir aren't exactly like Marinette and Adrien, so it *might* be just a little side effect of transforming
    • I guess that because Hawk Moth is always alone while Gabriel is a well-known fashion designer, it could be possible that Hawk Moth is Gabriel's actual personality and chance to, I don't know, be a little crazy, which is definitely a case with Adrien, who is calm and introverted as himself, but as Chat Noir, he is a energetic Pungeon Master. Also, as This Very Wiki noted, the akumatized characters have pretty weird, tacky outfits even through Gabriel should know how to make better outfits and he akumatized himself just to throw Ladybug and Chat Noir off, so the drastically different personalities of Hawk Moth and Gabriel could be another way he is trying to throw everyone in-universe off - "No, the hammy, over-the-top villain Hawk Moth is in no way connected to the quiet and reserved fashion designer Gabriel, what are you talking about?".
    • Actually, such personality shifts are a common and well-documented effect of anonymity, such as comes with online posting or wearing a mask. Many, many, many costumed heroes and villains act differently wearing their masks than they do in their civilian guises. Just like many people act differently online than offline.

    So many Italians... 
  • Adrien Agreste and his father are of Italian descent, as shown by the last name, Marinette was revealed to have an Italian grandmother, and Lila, who is hinted to come back as an enemy some day, is outright Italian. Why so many important characters of Italian descent?
    • Astruc worked on a few Italian shows (such as W.I.T.C.H.) before creating Miraculous Ladybug. Maybe it's his way of paying tribute to them

    Birthday Ages 
  • A small thing, there's over a year's gap in age between Alix and Marinette. In season one, Alix turns fifteen in Timebreaker, but Marinette turns fourteen in La Befana in season two. Is this kind of age gap common in French Schools or do you think one of them was held back/ skipped forward?
    • Might be a mistake. I would hazard a guess Alix was held back or entered school late, or Marinette entered school early. I don't think she's smart enough to skip a grade, but the point of grade skipping is to be in a school year that's somewhat of a challenge to you.
    • Unless the episodes are still out of order and "Timebreaker" goes about a year after "Befana". The only episode that HAS to be before "Befana" is "Gamer" (other than "Origins", I mean) and only for the charm.
    • Not when you consider Marinette's attitude towards Adrien and to Cat Noir. She can barely say "thank you" to Adrien in "Timebreaker" before she dissolves into giggles, whereas in "The Gamer" and "Befana" she's calmer around him and can talk to him without giggling. With Cat Noir, she doesn't complain about him calling her "Bugaboo" like she normally does and even refers to herself as "his lady", even though she usually protests about it.
    • Retcon?
    • Do we know when their respective birthdays are, in terms of dates? Only if Alix's was earlier in the school year than Marinette, that would explain it: it's actually fairly common for parents of kids born between late summer and early winter to hold them back a year before enrolling them at school, on the grounds that they're more likely to be emotionally mature enough to handle school if they're almost six at the start of the school year, than if they're still four. In which case they'd be a full year older than their classmates for the entirety of their compulsory-school career. Of course, this only applies if Alix's birthday is that early in the school year; otherwise I'll have been sitting here waffling for no reason.

     Imprisoning Chat Noir? 
  • Both Horrificator and Kung Food rely on the building the heroes are in being sealed off by an impenetrable barrier. Thing is, against Cat Noir, no barrier is indestructible. Why didn't he just Cataclysm through it? Even in Kung Food, it would probably be faster and would certainly provide better tactical advantages to Cataclysm through the caramel seal, sneak off and feed Plagg, and then head to the roof from the outside. And in Horrificator, they could have evacuated the majority of the students, simultaneously getting civilians to safety and clearing the field of potential collateral damage.
    • His power might only work against the doors/windows that are glued shut, but not go through to the goo/caramel. So he'd just be wasting it on the door, and the caramel at least would reseal.
    • Both lucky charm and cataclysm are used when they more or less know about the powers of the person they're against, and sometimes Cataclysm is used solely as a last resort. Both times that are mentioned, even if he managed to get out(And rescue the civilians) there is no guarantee that he could enter again and help Ladybug, for all he knows, he would need to use cataclysm *again* to enter. That and all the time he would lose while Plagg eats.

     That one disc... 
  • ...Marinette and Alya almost watched in Sapotis. Which has PV Ladybug on its cover. Just... how? Miraculous franchise is a thing in-universe? Or is Ladybug just big in Japan?
    • They're superheroes, why wouldn't they have fanart?

     Mrs. Agreste's last gift? 
  • Ok, in The Collector, Gabriel claims that the Miraculous spellbook was his wife's last gift to him, and the source of his inspiration for his fashion designs. But his wife has only been missing for a bit over a year at most (since the Christmas episode is confirmed to be the first Christmas since she vanished), and Gabriel has clearly been a highly successful brand for a lot longer than that. So how could the book be his inspiration if he only got it after already being a success?
    • Perhaps "the very last gift" doesn't mean that it was the last thing she gave him chronologically, but that it was the last thing he has left of hers (apart from Adrien)?
    • Perhaps he had a different inspiration before, but after that book ALL his stuff was miraculous inspired and displaced his earlier works.
    • I don't recall him saying that it's an inspiration to him as a designer, just that it's an inspiration to him. I took it to mean that it's his inspiration as Hawk Moth in that that's how he learned about Ladybug's and Chat Noir's miraculouses and the powers they hold. In other words, as I see it, it's true that it was a gift from his wife, and it's true that it was the last gift she gave him, and it's true that the book inspires him, but it's possible it inspires him to keep seeking after Ladybug's and Chat Noir's miraculouses, not that it inspires him to design clothing. It could be that he was being intentionally vague and implying that it inspires him as a designer in order to explain away why he was so upset over losing it and hide its true importance. A simple misdirection.

     "I've always wondered what this would do to someone alive" 
  • Obviously, on the show, Cat Noir doesn't use his Cataclysm directly on the akumatized villains. But why not? Miraculous Ladybug has been shown to be capable of restoring objects destroyed by Cataclysm, and of resurrecting those killed by akumas or Miraculous magic, so it's not as though he would be doing any permanent harm. They wouldn't even remember dying. And even if Cataclysming the victim didn't directly destroy the akumatized item, it would certainly be no trouble to find and destroy the item once the victim was incapacitated. Cat Noir could have turned several close fights into easy victories using that technique.
    • Even if they're brought back, it won't erase Cat Noir's memory of taking away someone's life. That sort of stuff can be traumatizing, especially considering he's still young enough to be in middle school. A light-hearted guy like him wouldn't want to do something that horrible and cruel.
    • They actually give us an example of this in "Miraculuer. The power-stealing villain uses the power on Chat Noir himself who ends up in excruciating pain and is visibly weakened throughout the episode. So he's still alive but in alot of pain.

    Too harsh? 
  • How was the way Marinette dealt with Lila in Volpina harsh and required an apology in the end? She's a liar, a thief, put someone's reputation at risk and tried manipulating a boy whom she also tried forcing herself onto for the better part of the day into a relationship. If anything she got off pretty easy and deserved worse.
    • Maybe it's too harsh because Marinette (as Ladybug) said it mostly out of anger and jealousy and the fact that Lila wouldn't have been akumatized in reaction to that (most of those akumatized tend to have a particularly strong negative emotion). Had Marinette said something like, "Hey, I'm Ladybug and I'd really appreciate it if you told the truth" or something like that in a gentle but stern tone, then we can suppose Lila wouldn't have become so upset as to where she could be akumatized.
    • She humiliated Lila in the most vicious way possible in front of her crush. It was wrong and downright cruel. Two wrongs don't make a right.
      • Lila did a lot more then one wrong, but point taken.

    Villain Avoiding the Simple Solution? 
  • We know Gabriel isn't the most efficient villain; sending an akuma to kidnap his son is a new one. He saw the ring, back in Season One, yet only acts on that knowledge later after Adrien accidentally "stole" the Miraculous book when it was actually Lila who stole it. Why didn't he try for solutions such as replacing Adrien's ring with a clever fake, asking to examine it under the pretext of wanting to fix the band, or something that would not involve testing his son's survival instinct?
    • My guess would be that he's trying to do this without making Adrien angry with him, or giving any clues that he's Hawk Moth. So he can't just ask to borrow the ring, because then Adrien will probably refuse, and he can't take it by force because that will break his relationship with Adrien.

    Genie 

  • Also, why hasn't Gabriel thought of using a genie themed villain to simply "wish" to have Ladybug and Chat Noir's miraculouses? It seems like an easy solution and he can always use Natalie for the role given how much he trusts her.
    • Wishes appear to be a cosmic disruption in the order of the universe, requiring a balancing cost. This may apply to all wishes, not just those granted by combining the Miraculouses of the Cat and Ladybug. If it was as simple as that, Hawk Moth could bypass Ladybug and Chat Noir entirely and just wish Emilie back to life.
    • That raises a question: Why can't he just create a wish-granting akuma and then wish for Emilie to come back to life? It's not like he's not prepared to risk a cosmic disruption to bring her back anyway. And he can grant others powers that get around the rules of the Miraculous, as shown in "Catalyst."
      • For the same reason why Ladybug and Cat Noir haven't encountered a villain with the power of ALL the guns, or an "Instant Death" Radius. Hawkmoth has to encounter someone who meets those specific requirements, which is likely part of the reason why he keeps trying. Pigeon Man gets the power of pigeons because his akuma-reason was related to pigeons.

     Why the fan? 
  • Once Ladybug and Cat Noir figured out that Glaciator was just a Snowlem being piloted by Andre, why did they come up with that fan solution to destroy his body? Why not just have Cat Noir Cataclysm it? They did the same thing to Gamer, so they know it will work and not kill Andre, and it would be a lot easier.

     Hawk Moth's laser-guided precognition 
  • In "Sapotis" Hawk Moth just begins to suspect there is a Guardian in town when a third Miraculous user shows up. If he didn't already strongly suspect the presence of a Guardian in "Stoneheart", how could he expect his plan to work at all?

    • For his plan to work, there would have to be a Guardian in the city with an active kwami to detect him using the Butterfly Miraculous. They would have to empower heroes to respond within a day. They would have to have access to both the Cat and Ladybug Miraculouses, and activate both rather than some other heroes.

    • Hawk Moth could have his akuma spend days trashing the city with no good results for him. He has to have foreknowledge, possibly through the Peacock Miraculous. He even guessed Ladybug's name before she named herself: "Everything's going to plan. Ladybug and Cat Noir's Miraculous have been activated. Here they come to save the day, and now my supervillain will destroy them."

    • Where did this knowledge come from? And if he can do this all the time, why isn't he a lot more effective?

    • He could have thought it was also possible the Ladybug and Cat holders came to Paris from elsewhere in response to him as a result of the Kwami's sensing Nooroo was active shortly before he started making Akuma. But Ladybug running off in the middle of a fight and returning minutes later with the Fox, the exact powerset they needed to stop Sapotis, confirms that the Guardian is actually in the city nearby.

    • Gabriel's Secrets episode has him monologue that while he intended to draw out the Ladybug and Cat Miraculous holders from the start he wasn't entirely sure just how that had worked until a 3rd Hero suddenly showed up right when they needed it, confirming that a Guardian with the Miracle Box was nearby and he was the one distributing Miraculous. Which is important because he also needed a Guardian to translate his book.

     Hawk Moth & Other Miraculouses 
  • Another thought concerning the episode "Sapotis": Hawk Moth realizes there are other Miraculouses in existence with the Fox Miraculous being used. That raises not one but two questions. First, wouldn't Hawk Moth have already known of the existence of additional Miraculouses especially with his alter ego's book telling him so? Second, what would Hawk Moth want with the Miraculous of the Fox, Turtle, etc? We have no confirmation as of yet that these would possess the same level of power that the combined potential of the Cat and Ladybug Miraculous have. These couldn't be of any strategic value to Hawk Moth.
    • He already knew that the other Miraculouses existed. What he didn't know (or at least didn't have as much evidence for) was that whoever had the Miraculouses was based in Paris. And as for what he might want with other Miraculouses, he could give one to Natalie (assuming he can't use the Peacock for some reason and/or doesn't actually have it), thus doubling his chance of defeating Ladybug and Cat Noir. Not to mention that even if he can't use the other Miraculouses himself, just removing potential reinforcements from Ladybug and Cat Noir would be worth the trouble. And finally, it's possible that what he wants is not the Miraculouses, but the knowledge that Master Fu, as the Last Guardian, possesses.
    • He says in "Sandboy" he wants all the Kwami's and Miraculous under his control. Ladybug and the Cat are simply his first targets because of the wish and because they're active and opposing him, while the rest are stored in the Miracle Box.

     Should we really feel so sorry for Marinette? 

  • The thing with Marinette and Adrien can be a bit eye rolling on Marinette's part. Put down the pitch forks and let me explain: Both of them go to school together, and we all know that while Chloe is the resident Alpha Bitch, the school doesn't seem to have the stereotypical hierarchy of popularity since Kim the Jock hangs out with Max the nerd/geek and Juleka the goth and Rose the bubbly glitter girl and so on. But yet Marinette can't even have a simple conversation or go to the movies with Adrien without a convoluted scheme with data gained by stalking or the whole city chasing him down over an ad forcing him to hide with her. She has every chance and opportunity to talk to him, yet gives up so easily, STALKS him and let's the crush be the focus of her life to the point of causing her own share of Akumas (I.e. Glaciator and Befana),missing out on social events(going for ice cream or Chloe's party), and only doing new things just because it has something to do with Adrien (joining the fencing team). Again I do like Marinette's general character, but it's not healthy.
    • Probably for just that reason, there's Truth in Television. A lot of young women go through a boy crazy phase where they feel like their life revolves around their crush, and it usually occurs between twelve and fifteen. There's brand new hormones granting feelings that they probably haven't had to this intensity. It's really a brilliant move when you think about it, because the show is aimed at slightly younger audience than Marinette. It's basically telling its viewers that it's okay to reveal in these new emotions a little bit, but to be wary of how you handle them because you can hurt people unintentionally like Max in Gamer, or the Gorilla in Gigantitian. The best example is in Glaciator between Marinette and Tiki with Marinette being excited, then hurt, and then realizing how her inability to get over her hurt may have ruined her friend's evenings as well. Tiki admits that she over reacted, but basically reminds her that it's okay to have feelings, and her friends will still love her tomorrow.
    • OP here. Yep that was definitely me a few years back(Except I'm a boy). I get it, and you are right about it beimg a good message. I just felt that it does cause some missed opportunities that could be used for other things. For example in Riposte, maybe have Ladybug unlock a new Miraculous weapon like a sword, and thus have Marinette take up fencing to better develop her skills to aid Cat Noir. But I still do find the love square(or Pentagon as of Captain Hardrock) to be a great source of humor and good part of the story.
    • I actually appreciate the fact that Marinette isn't ever given a 'real' weapon and has to cleverly improvise based on her surroundings. It focuses the combat on observation and intelligence rather than power and action, setting the show apart from its other super-hero & magical girl counterparts. Also, with this example in particular, fencing is supposed to be in Adrien's wheelhouse not Marinette's, and it's nice see the writer are sticking to that as it holds to the idea that Ladybug and Cat Noir are partners, not hero and side-kick.

     Master Fu's foolery 

  • I'm having a hard time understanding Master Fu's decision making. For one, the test he had for choosing Miraculous wielders was rather lucky that it worked. There are plenty of people IRL who would do the things Marinette and Adrien did and still be the last person you give superpowers. But then there's the thing with how Marinette was never supposed to meet him in the first place and then how she wasn't supposed to come again. But, why? It seems kinda irresponsible to give two teenagers magical trinkets that together could warp reality and then not check up on them. And heck they could really use his knowledge and insight about the Miraculous. If secret identities are a concern have them visit separately at different times. For someone who doesn't want to repeat his past mistakes, this seems to be a grab towards the Idiot Ball.
    • I think the general idea was that Master Fu had to devise a Secret Test of Character fairly quickly after the Butterfly brooch became active, and so he choose slightly different tests for each recipient. (Marinette had look at the situation and resolve it quickly, where as Adrien had to see someone who needed help, and put his own desires(safety) aside to help(save) them.) Since then, there has been strong implications that Master Fu has been following their progress, presumably so that he could step in as needed. I'm also guessing that Master Fu probably intended/intends to meet with both of them eventually, but first he wanted to let them establish themselves on their own, and get a good sense of their own capabilities. That way, he doesn't have to worry about them looking to him as a leader when he can only function more of a guide as this point, and he doesn't have to worry about them begging for help on issues they can actually solve themselves. (Think Origins Marinette with the 'I can't do this, get someone bigger, someone braver!' attitude.) Since he knows that the Kwamis can and will explain their new powers and responsibilities, he can safely sit back and observe his new heroes without worrying about them to much at the start, but he always has the chance to step in later if things go sideways. Another great side effect, although perhaps an unintentional one, was that it kept Hawk Moth from being alerted to his presence. (It was only the first time he intervened that Hawk Moth went "A Guardian? Here?".) In the end, he was revealed early to Marinette because the book and its information was more important than having a hidden ace in the heroes' sleeve.
    • So in Syren Master Fu basically states that Adrien isn't ready or that it's not time for him to know about the Guardian. With the whole boiling pot metaphor. But Master Fu only reveals himself at the last possible second, with all of Paris flooded and Adrien about to renounce his ring. To borrow a metaphor: the pot wasn't just boiling, it was overflowing.
    • The Miraculous Secrets Episode focused on Gabriel reveals that every time they get involved with Master Fu Hawk Moth learns more about them and eventually made Fu a secondary target. In season 1 he was uncertain if Ladybug and Chat Noir either came from out of Paris or had them all along and were just waiting for a reason to use them and appeared in reaction to him. But Rena Rouge's appearance clued him in that a Guardian must have selected them and still had more Miraculous, and then Syren and their powerups revealed to him that not only did they somehow attain a copy of his one of a kind Grimore but that the Guardian could read it and he resolved to locate him and force him to translate it for him. The Kwami's trying to connect to Nooroo gave him a general location of Fu's place. And finally Marinette's screw up with Fu's latter in Backwarder gave him Fu's name and that he's living under an alias. So Fu is right to want to be hands off. Every time he helped out, while it was needed he ended up putting more and more of a target on his back, and if Hawk Moth ever captures him that will be because of that.

     Should we really feel sorry for Chloè? 
  • Look, I know being abandoned by a parent at a young age is sad and all...but does it really excuse Chloe's behaviour? Chloe's 15, she should have better maturity by now. Also, I doubt the whole 'she wants to be a good person but doesn't know how' thing because in the Origins episode, while she's falling, she prays that if she's saved she'll be a nicer person. This means she's aware that she's an Alpha Bitch
    • After "Frightingale", I say we shouldn't because she still has her mother and doesn't mind using her as a threat when the Mayor is reluctant.
    • Maybe Chloe is meant to be case of Freudian Excuse Is No Excuse. Sure, her parents split when she was young (we can assume that to be case as she still has her mother but probably doesn't see her often) and, while that can affect people emotionally in the years to come, we don't see them acting like Chloe does, however, it should be worth noting that her dad did spoil her, since her mother's departure, placating and babying her, thus overcompensating for her feelings of abandonment
    • As of the second season, I see Chloe as being confused. She was willing to listen to advice from Ladybug in "Antibug" about Sabrina and she did prove she could be nice in "Despair Bear", albeit due to prodding from Adrien. We can't expect someone to change overnight. If Chloe suddenly behaved like a nice person all the time from there on, it would feel unrealistic. In real life, people cannot change overnight; I don't think Chloe can just shed the bad habits that she's had for years. Look at "Zombizou" where Chloe does get a gift for Miss Bustier after the events of the episode and then the following ep "Frightingale" where she reverts back to her spoiled ways. Those most likely represent the chaotic struggle inside of Chloe; deep down inside, she can be a nice person but can't simply shed her bad behavior right away. It's possibly all part of her Character Development.

     Do some characters have depression? 
  • It really strikes me some characters have depression. For example...
    1. Adrian Agreste: Acts cheerful on the outside but is sad on the inside, at home he always has a sad look on his face, lack of emotional stimulus to Chloe's advances, Sugar-and-Ice Personality, extremely selfless (that could indicate lack of worth and self-esteem, or even little worth for his own life), barely talks (until he turns into Chat Noir) and has an emotionally abusive dad
    2. Nathalie Sancour: Usually has a bored look on her face, is The Stoic, lack of emotional stimulus (I get that she's an assistant and has to stay professional and all, but she seems uncannily emotionless and she fits the Emotionless Girl trope quite well...)
    3. Gabriel Agreste: Lack of emotional stimulus to anything, really, really sad on the inside, The Stoic
    4. Nathanaël Kurtzburg: Bored look, lack of emotion, preferance to be alone (he's the only guy in the class without an official best friend, and unlike Alix (who has a bash buddy relationship with Kim and hangs out with Marinette and Juleka from time to time), no one else to even talk to.
    5. Sabrina Reincomprix, maybe?: Lacks emotion, she's like Chloe's Nathalie
    6. Marinette Dupain-Cheng: In the first episode, she had no friends, constantly stared at the ground, didn't emote much, lack of worth and self-esteem

     How did Rena Rouge know how her powers worked? 
  • Ok, in the Origins Episodes it's clearly established that new Bearers don't automatically know how their powers work, since Cat Noir had to be told that he couldn't use Cataclysm twice in a row without recharging. But in Sapotis, Rena Rouge somehow knows not only what her powers are but what the trigger phrase to activate Mirage is. We know Trixx didn't tell her, and it couldn't have been memories of the Volpina incident since Rena Rouge's and Volpina's powers function differently. So how did Rena Rouge know how to use her Mirage?
    • Ladybug could have told her all things necessary before they reached Chat Noir. And either Trixx told Ladybug how the Fox powers worked, or Master Fu did.
    • Chat Noir tells her. Play the flute and think of what she wants her mirage to be and that's what will appear. Though how he knows this is also a mystery given that he hasn't even met Master Fu yet at that point.
      • He probably just used simple logical inference: If her power is controlled through her flute, then it'd make sense that she'd need to play it. And it's not much of a leap to guess that creating illusions would require you to imagine what you want to create.

     Evillustrator date 

  • Nathanaël gets akumatized. Fine. Then we see him ask Marinette out on a date, and then he saunters out. So that means Nathanaël has been out as Evillustrator after school hours. My question is why didn't anyone notice he was missing? I mean weren't his parents concerned that their son didn't come home? Didn't they, I dunno, call the police or launch a missing child report or something? Given that he was ready for Marinette in the evening, does that mean he was gone for hours and his parents didn't notice?
    • Also, what implications does this leave of his home life?
    • He could have called his parents and said he was going to the library after school or some such. Shy introverts are usually trusted by their parents to not be up to any shenanigans, so notifying them where he is would suffice.
    • We see Nathaniel coming and going pretty freely in Reverser, so the above poster is probably correct. He may even called them to inform them he planned to go on date, or was going to see his friend, Alix. We have no reason to assume they are abusive.

     Evillustrator parents 

  • My alternate theory is that Nathanël did go home, but his parents were so freaked out by him and pulled Offing the Offspring, like in Jeff the Killer. So then Nathanël erased them or something. This explains why no-one was suspicious of his whereabouts. But if that's the case, didn't anyone notice the sounds and chaos that Nathanël must have created while doing so (unleas he lives in a Big Fancy House like Adrian? And if they did, what did Nathanaël do to them?
    • Nathaniel could have easily gotten into his room with his powers: erase outside wall, go in, re-draw outside wall; draw a massive lock on his door. Or else he could have drawn a puppet "Nathaniel" to go in, say hi, grab dinner and retreat to his room. There are many ways he could have found a place to hang out until evening without his parents becoming the wiser (including drawing himself a new art studio in some abandoned building or something).

     Evillustrator and the Miraculous 

  • Why didn't he draw the Miraculous? Then he'd have them.
    • He would then have a copy of them, not the original.

     Evillustrator and Chloe's appartment 

  • And if he woke up at Chloe's apartment, how did he get home?
    • Call his parents to pick up him? French equivalent of Uber?
    • Adding on to that, how did his parents react to the fact that their son almost murdered the mayor's daughter? Not that I'd have minded if Chloe died and she definitely deserved it, but his parents would be downright horrified and maybe ground him. That poor boy, I wish he would end up with Marinette instead of Adrian...
      • Assuming the abusive theory isn't true, why would he get in trouble? All of Paris has pretty much accepted that Akuma victims both have little control over themselves, and that they lose all memory of what they've done.
    • He deserves someone nice, no question, but Adrian is also a sweetheart and deserves someone awesome as well, and Marinette already loves him. (I personally like to pair Nathaniel with Juleka.) I doubt his parents would punish him, the whole city knows that akumatized victims are Brainwashed and Crazy.
    • I also pointed out above how there's a possibility of Nathanël having Abusive Parents above. Does that mean they'll punish him more? Or out of fear, would they isolate him, therefore making him feel more guilty than before?
    • They may not be abusive. Some people are just more introverted than others.
    • One sign that they are at least neglectful is that it was his birthday (according to Evillustrator, who could have been lying to get Marinette on a date), and there was no indication of arrangements to give him a party at his home.
    • Holy hell that thought never crossed my mind. I doubt he's lying though because he seems quite the honest frank type of guy to me.
    • His birthday was on a school day, so there's every chance his parents may have planned a quiet at home celebration for him that weekend. He also may have told them that he had other birthday plans with Alix or Marinette. He seems to come and go as freely as all of his other classmates (save Adrien).

     How did everyone know Hawk Moth's appearance? 
  • In Volpina, Adrien recognized Hawk Moth's picture in the book, Ladybug recognized Hawk Moth (illusion) later, and since that illusion was made by Volpina, she must know too. How did they do that, since Hawk Moth never confront anyone (heroes or akumatized victims) in person?
    • They all actually had the book for a short time before "Hawk Moth" arrived, (Adrien stole it from his father and was going over it, then Lila stole it from him and undoubtedly looked at it at least enough to seem some what knowledgeable, then Tikki retrieved it form the trash can.)
    • Alternatively, it may almost be that Volpina can create illusions simply by summoning them, without having to know every detail of what she is summoning, and her power covers the rest.
    • In origins part 2 He creates a massive replica of his head from Akumas to speak directly to Paris, while it wasn't the clearest image it still clearly showed the appearance of his head. Frankly without it Marinette and Adrien wouldn't even know about Hawk Moth if not for that scene.

     Puzzling Protests 
  • In the episode “Reverser”, why are people outside of city hall protesting the new outer space trash disposal system? It doesn’t harm any life, it doesn’t make any mess and it reduces pollution in the city. Plus, even if such a system existed in real life, it would be safe behind layers of biometrics and passcodes, not accessible from a smartphone app like in this episode. If anything, they should be celebrating.
    • It's the equivalent of sweeping dirt under the rug and pretending it doesn't exist anymore. It doesn't actually solve the problem of pollution and trash, the protesters might have been hoping the mayor was going to have a more environmentally friendly solution.
    • Adding to that, shooting trash regularly into space might scare some people. It would be the ultimate way to dispose of anything illegal, or at the very least highly concerning. Also, keep in mind that Miraculous Ladybug is fictional. There are definitely a bunch of Hollywood Hackers out there who can get past anything the government throws at them.

     Can people really be akumatized twice, or does being bonded with a kwami make a difference? 
  • So, we all seem to be assuming that Hawk Moth can akumatize people twice as different villains because he hits Chloe as Antibug and Queen Bee as Queen Wasp, but I'm wondering if that's really right. There is definitely some kind of fusion that occurs between the superheroes and their kwamis, one that not only gives the hero the kwami's powers, but creates physical changes in the heroes. Most of the evidence for this is Cat Noir, who along with his low-light vision and functional cat ears, is given the ability to actually purr. (Which while definitely cool is arguably not a super power.) Also, in "Heroes Day", we know that several of the old villains are returning as themselves, so we know that Hawk Moth can re-akumatize people, but I guess what I’m wondering is do we really think Hawk Moth can turn the same people into different villains, or does being fused with a kwami give you/your body/your combined souls/whatever enough of a different signature to be akumatized as a different person?
    • Maybe if a person who was akumatized before gets upset about a different situation, Hawk Moth can akumatize them into a different villain - the villain's powers seem to reflect whatever was making the person upset at the time, so it's possible he could make different villains of the same person, and just chooses not to target people twice usually because they've already failed him. He could have just gone after Chloe again because he never had the opportunity to akumatize someone wielding a miraculous before. Or it could be like you said. This is a question for the creators to answer.
    • Chameleon shows that Hawk Moth can bestow different powers on the same individual. Giving all the victims the same powers in Heroes' Day is most likely Hawk Moth saving himself the trouble of coming up with dozens of new power sets on the fly. The reason each akumatized form seems tailored to the situation isn't because each person has a default akumatized form; Hawk Moth is shown to read a person's emotions and has some minor telepathy to understand the details of what upset the victim, so he customizes the powers and appearances himself.

     Chloe's redemption 
  • Okay, I was watching Malediktator, and it's supposed to redeem Chloe. Only after I watched it, it didn't change a single thing. It's just the way they handled Chloe's reformation. It's so....botched and bad. Like, it didn't make me sympathize with her at all.
    Here's the thing. So the episode begins with Chloe bragging about her being Queen Bee, then throwing a tantrum and blaming it on Marinette. Then later, she confesses to Ladybug that it's not Marinette, it's that she feels useless and has no friends because no one loves her. Yeah....but isn't that her own fault? She's bullied, humiliated, trashed, roasted, hurt, belittled, blackmailed and even physically abused her classmates. How does she EXPECT to have friends and be loved like that? It's entirely on her that she has no friends. And keep in mind no one is forcing her to be that way, she does it out of her own accord.
    Not only that, when she saves Paris with Ladybug, she gets a party. What? Um, on several occasions (Befana, Gigantitan) we've seen Marinette's classmates help out in taking down akumas as well. Why is it only Chloe who gets a party? And in my opinion, superheroes are just doing their jobs by saving everyone, so it's not really worth a party. And the fact that everyone forgives her after ONE little deed is also jarring. Yes, it's nice, but you have done the same thing, and it isn't worth constant abuse.
    Not only that, the fact that Chloe bullied Marinette for FOUR consecutive years is never brought up, or that she hurt her classmates multiple times either. And what's hypocritical and chilling about this is, she whines to Ladybug about being "useless, not being loved by anyone and having no friends..." well, so was Marinette (before she became Ladybug)! Marinette was also friendless, useless and not loved during those four years. So Chloe hurt someone with the same issues as her for no reason, and this is never addressed.
    And at the end, Marinette tells Master Fu that "being Ladybug made her a better Marinette, so being Queen Bee could make a better Chloe", but that comparison holds no water because unlike Chloe, before becoming a hero Marinette still had good in her. She saved an old man, hence earned the miraculous. Chloe on the other hand unfairly stole a Miraculous, and the only reason Ladybug took her on as a comrade was because she happened to have connections with Malediktator.
    Chloe seems to get off scott free for her actions, no one is mad at her, she even gets warm hugs and a party. She isn't given time to explore her flaws and receive character development, nope, it as all just rushed in her favour. This is one of the worst redemptions I've ever seen. I guess all the hype was for nothing in the end.
    • Her redemption arc has only just started. Years of dealing with parental abandonment and being spoiled rotten combining to make a terrible person aren't going to go away just because of a few positive experiences. Her classmates still think she's annoying, they're just more willing to give her a chance to prove she can change now. I'm sure we'll get more episodes in the future dealing with her trying to be a better person, but I don't think she's ever going to do a complete 180.

     Adrien and Chloé 

  • What is it with the show constantly changing Chloé and Adrien's relationship ?

     The Not-So-Red Volpina 
  • In "Mayura", how could Volpina have her normal color, while she should turn red like other akumatized villains?(Hawk Moth has to dispel her akuma in order to make Catalyst, so if he wants to recruit her again he must use a red akuma).
    • The others were that vulnerable to the red akumatization because they were tricked into thinking Ladybug was akumatized and killed Cat Noir. Volpina knew the truth because she helped Hawk Moth with that trick; and wouldn't feel upset if Ladybug killed Cat Noir for real.
    • It's an animation error.

     Hawk Moth's super-mastering skill 
  • "Origin Part 1" showed Gabriel becoming Hawk Moth for the first time. This isn't much longer than Ladybug and Chat Noir, yet he mastered the ability to overcome the 5 minutes limit. If the Guardian of the Miraculous has existed for hundreds of years, then why Master Fu not know about it, or for what reason did he not teach Ladybug and Chat Noir?
    • Master Fu probably does know about it, and probably has attained it himself given that he's got over a century of experience on even Hawk Moth. As to why he doesn't reveal it, probably for the same reason he took months to reveal himself to Marinette and Adrien, and was implied to have wanted to wait even longer if not for the book. Fu seems to only want to reveal things or have them gain abilities when they absolutely need them, and no earlier. And the countdown was never a problem before. Meanwhile Hawk Moth figured it out so easily on his own because he's implied to spend much more time experimenting with his abilities and otherwise researching them, while (as he says outright in Heroes Day) Ladybug and Chat Noir only transform to solve immediate problems, then go home and revert. It helps that as a reclusive billionaire who lets his assistants mostly run things for him, and has his own private chamber, he has far more freedom and free time to play around with his abilities than Marinette and Adrien, who have to balance school life and other responsibilities as well as keep quiet. He also had the drive, as Marinette and Adrien seem to follow Fu's example of only needing to be as strong as they need to solve the crisis of the week and never really seem too interested in becoming more powerful or minding their time limit while Gabriel spent several episodes in season 2 trying to figure out how to increase his power before figuring it out with Catalyst.
    • Another possibility is that keeping the transformation past the time limit is harmful or at least painful to the kwami. Or wearer, but it's unlikely Hawk Moth would risk himself in that case. Hawk Moth who only sees Nooroo as a slave and tool probably could care less as he keeps him pretty miserable anyway, but that's not something any of the heroic characters would want to do, so Master Fu wouldn't even consider it a thing to teach (and even he might not know as it could be considered taboo to the guardians) since the time limit has never been a problem to any of the heroes yet.
    • Timetagger apparantly answered this one. It's about being physically an adult. Teenagers bodies aren't strong enough to handle more than one use until they've grown more. Gabriel is already an adult, so that explains it. Mayura also has no time limit despite her having just started using it for the same reason. The early 20s Bunnix does as does future Ladybug and Chat Noir (and presumably everyone on their team) It's unknown about Fu because he's aged past his prime and can't fight very well anymore, but he definitely had the ability when he was younger.

     Kwamis can't reveal their master's name 
  • "Sandboy" showed that there is a spell that prevents kwamis from saying their holders' names in front of others. But in "Volpina"/"The Collector", didn't Tikki say Marinette's name in front of Master Fu and Wayzz?
    Also, since Tikki could say Master Fu's name, did it mean there is nothing forbidding Tikki from revealing Chat Noir is Adrien?
    • Presumably the spell only works in front of people or Kwamis who don't know. It would be pointless and counter productive to prevent Kwamis from speaking to allies already in the know as they'd know anyway and it would make communication in terms of strategy meetings or other problems to have to dance around her name. Imagine if Tikki had to go for help for Marinette if she was stuck somewhere and couldn't speak her name for example. And Master Fu and Wayzz already knew who Ladybug is. As did Plagg. But the other Kwamis in the box didn't, so that triggered the spell.
    • To seemingly confirm this, the French version of the episode has Plagg unable to say Adrien's name(the english version has him still randomly spit bubbles despite this) when he and Tikki come out of the box, while Tikki still can say Marinette's name, presumably because while all present know Marinette is Ladybug Marinette herself doesn't know about Adrien.

    Master Fu and his house keys 
  • Why did Master Fu have to send Wayzz to fetch Marinette to help him find his house keys that one time? What was stopping him from just getting the help of his neighbors for a perfectly mundane problem? And even if he couldn't find them, couldn't Wayzz just phase through the door and open it from the inside? Is Fu just paranoid?
    • It's entirely possible that thanks to him having a false name and prioritizing the secrets and Miraculous that Fu doesn't actually have any friends in the city and has never really interacted with his neighbors enough to be comfortable asking them. Marinette could basically be his only friend in the city. Granted there is the issue of just having Wayzz get them especially since he's willing to send Wayzz to fetch her, though it's possible he also just wants excuses to interact with her because he's lonely and she's the only person he can be open with. Though that brings up the issue of why he won't just text or call her rather than sending Wayzz.
    • To be fair about that last bit, Tikki herself exasperatedly says that Fu needs to learn how to text.

    Adrien not knowing Ladybug's identity 
  • Thanks to "Dark Cupid", he has figured out she must be one of his schoolmates but he somehow still refuses to consider the possibility of her being Marinette. Who else could it be since Ladybug couldn't be anyone who's been akumatized before?
    • In their class maybe, but the same episode shows that he and everyone else are friendly with students in other classes like Aurore (even if they've never been shown talking to her before). And Marinette has lied about being affected by Akuma before to justify her disappearances, like saying Darkblade turned her into one of his knights. And seeing as he seemingly takes her at her every word with how she insists she doesn't have a crush on him, and he likely ruled her out.

    Animaestro's weakness 
  • If he can't move when no one's looking at him, then how did he ever left the bathroom?
    • Maybe that weakness only applies AFTER "the movie started", i.e. first transformation. Or he simply needs to wait someone go into the bathroom.

    Forgotten phone passwords 
  • When Marinette and Adrien have their memories wiped in "Oblivio" and can't remember their phone passwords, would it have been possible for them to use muscle memory to unlock them?
    • The muscle memory only helps you to do things without thinking, it can't help you with something you forget how to do. For example, you can easily walk in your house without crashing into the furniture. Try to do that after close your eyes for several minutes (so you can 'forget' the image of the room), you will find it extremely hard. Marinette and Adrien DO receive help from muscle memory. Once Marinette figure out the drawing, they both successfully unlocked the phone in their first try.

    Hawk Moth's Obviously Evil power names 
  • Anybody feel free to give the folder a catchier title. But, since the Miraculous were always meant to be used for good, why is the command "Dark Wings Rise," why are the butterflies called 'akumas,' and why is it called "evilizing" when they bond with someone? Yeah, that could just be what he chooses to call it, but that brings up more problems, such as...
    • Perhaps the Mage wasn't in his right mind when inventing the butterfly Miraculous.

    What's with Hawk Moth's Card Carrying Villain routine, given his motive? 
  • When all alone in his lair, so he's not doing it for the benefit of the audience, he spends a lot of time doing the kind of evil chortling an evil-for-evil's sake might do, and has Obviously Evil names for his powers. But that doesn't fit with his motivation of trying to bring his wife back. In fact, some early episode have him actually talk about ruling the world, when we're going to learn that he desires no such thing.
    • Maybe it's the dark side of Gabriel slipped out. Like his son Adrien, his civilian personality is shaped by other people around and thus greatly contrast their "real" personality. He valued his son's life above his goal, but when he became The Collector one of the first thing he did is go to capture his son.
    • Considering how guarded and redundantly safe he is about guarding his secret it's likely he just acts like a completely different person and plays up his evil as Hawk Moth just to make sure he's distanced from Gabriel Agreste, given that he frequently has to interact with his victims via telepathy as well as the one time he went out into the open. Him contiuning to act the role even if he's alone is just him being thorough and keeping up the act so that he doesn't accidentally slip at other times.
    • It's also likely an example of what's known in live theatre as the mask effect: put on a mask you associate with a certain role, you tend to act accordingly. When donning the mask also involves an actual physical transformation, well...

    Are Kwamis conscious when transformed? 
  • Okay I cannot tell, are the Kwamis aware of what's happening when they are transformed? Sometimes the seem to be, such as Plagg commenting when Adrien chose to respect Marinette's desire for anonymity, but then other times they don't seem to know, such as in origins where both Kwamis ask their wielders if they captured the akuma, something that they should know.
    • It's possible that they can "toggle" their awareness while transformed.

    Why did Marinette tell Cat Noir she loved him? 
  • Marinette's a pretty bright girl and very good at thinking on her feet. So why not deflect Cat Noir's suspicions by just saying "Of course I'm here! I live here!" or something similar.
    • It was very early in the morning and Marinette should've been in bed, if she wasn't Ladybug. Instead, she's fully clothed at an early hour, just came out of a fight with an Akuma and realized she was holding the very item Ladybug took away from the battle. Her blurting out she loved Cat Noir was a panic answer as Cat Noir was about to conclude she was Ladybug (or so she thought) and her house just got attacked. She may have not thought of it clearly before answering because of the pressure and short time to find an answer.

    Hawk Moth & Other Miraculouses Part 2 
  • So now Hawk Moth desires the other Miraculouses (Fox, Turtle, Bee, etc). He openly said he wants their power too - in terms of Hawk Moth's mind, what is going on? Is he suffering from Motive Decay? Or is Hawk Moth starting to get Drunk on the Dark Side?
    • Note that while Hawk Moth has Ladybug and Cat as the priority to heal his wife he never says that's the be all end all of his plans and after that he's giving them all up when that's done. In fact he was doing stuff with Miraculous even before Emilie got sick. That was the cause of it in the first place. So for whatever his long term plan is, it's possible from the start he wanted all of them, and is only prioritizing the main two.
    • It's perfectly possible that he either desires them as useful weapons to use in acquiring the Ladybug and Cat Miraculouses or wants to remove them from his enemies' hands.

     Gabriel looks for a new level of Bad Parenting of The Year? 
  • In the end of Onichan, Lila says that Adrien need to have a friend someone to protect him from bad influence, and she offer herself to that position. Gabriel accept. What he's thinking? How can Lila, a liar who can't stop lying, not a "bad influence"? I expect a better judge of character from the man who gave her power related to lying TWICE (four times if count akumazation). And if Gabriel can still like her after what she did (in Volpina, she's willingly to let "Adrien" fall to his death. Remember that he didn't know Adrien is Chat Noir at that moment. And in Chameleon, she's trying to ruin Adrien's reputation), then he didn't love his son as he thought.
    • He's just looking for an excuse to keep Lila close to use her as a weapon against the heroes since he noticed her genuine hatred to the point where she tried to sabotage their efforts. Without giving himself away as Hawk Moth. I doubt he genuinely bought any of Lila's BS. Once Ladybug and Chat Noir are defeated and he gets what he wants, he'd likely immediately kick her out.

    Making a Ladybug Movie (Do superheroes license themselves?) 
  • Animaestro is a good episode that raises a lot of weird questions for me. My main question is simply, how was Astruc allowed to legally make this movie? Do Ladybug/Chat Noir have legal rights to their images? Merchandise of the two exists so I feel there has to be some licensing on them in some capacity (unless all the merch is bootlegs) but then comes the question of collecting royalties and the fact that despite being superheroes they are both still minors, but that's beside the point. Did Astruc have to get their permission to do the movie? Were they involved in the process at all? (Although Marinette's reaction to the trailer suggests they weren't, it doesn't answer anything else) They were both invited to the premiere and even though they declined there isn't anything to suggest they dislike the movie itself, did they know anything about it before it was released?. I know I am looking way too deep into this but this episode gave me so many questions on the whole superhero legality of this universe.
    • They are public figures in universe and as their identities are secret they can't trademark their images since that requires legal paperwork with actual names involved. It doesn't help that the movie seems to be almost entirely made up since as again thanks to their identities being a secret nobody actually knows what their backstories are. So basically no, people can do what they want with their images and their hands are tied as long as they remain unknown.
    • Since superheroes are a thing in the Miraculous universe, and there's no limit to human greed, there's probably some system in place for movie studios and toy companies to make money off of superheroes' images.
    • For the same reason why you can make movies about current Presidents, rulers, etc.

     Do It Yourself 
  • After watching Miraculer, I think there's almost no limit for powers Hawk Moth can give. If Gabriel loves his wife so much, why doesn't he give himself a power that can heal her?
    • As noted above, there seems to be a cosmic balance in the Miraculous universe. So if Gabriel gave himself the power to heal people he would have to sacrifice someone else for it.

     Why does Hawk Moth need both Miraculouses? 
  • Queen Wasp showed that he can enhance other Miraculous user. Therefore, he only need Ladybug miraculous and used an enhanced version of Miraculous Ladybug to "fix" his wife (I'm sure Natalie will gladly help him).Why risk the wish with an unknown cost?
    • It doesn't work that way. In order to use the "Ultimate power" you need both creation and destruction it's a classic Yin and Yang situation.
    • Adding to that it's implied there's no way to heal her conventionally boosted Ladybug powers or Akuma granted healing power or otherwise. No amount of creation magic can fix her. Only using the Ultimate Power of the Ladybug and Cat to rewrite reality to alter what happened is the only way. And you need the actual Ladybug and Cat Miraculous's to for that.

     Where is the "third" Rabbit Miraculous come from? 
  • "Timetagger" had a very confused scene: Future Alix gave LB a broken Rabbit Miraculous. How's that possible? There should be only two Rabbit Miraculouses: the present one (which Master Fu still keeps) and the future one (Alix's watch, which Present Alix still keeps).
    • I figure that after the events of the episode, Future Alix has the damaged Rabbit Miraculous repaired and then goes back to Ancient Egypt again to give it to her own ancestors so she can inherit it in the present.

     Why Timetagger didn't go further? 
  • Timetagger said that he went back to the past to deal with "inexperienced" LB and CN. If that's the case, why he didn't go to the time of "LB and CN: Origin"(he can send Bunnix to Ice Age, it shouldn't be hard for him)? While teenage LB and CN are weaker than their adult version, they're still decent enough to defeat Mr.Pigeon in less than a minute.
    • Despite being a teenager, he never grew up mentally as shown when Timetagger acted like a confused little kid after being de-akumatized. So he didn't think of it because he's still the same Naive Kid he was before.

     Why did Oni-chan make the call to the firefighter? 
  • Oni-chan's tracking calls seem to be under her control. There she was, with Ladybug tied up, about to take her Miraculous and defeat her for good. There was absolutely no reason to jump back to Lila, who had promised to give up Adrien if Oni-chan got rid of Ladybug. Why did she make the call that resulted in getting swapped with the firefighter at just the wrong moment?
    • It's possible that the tracking power is not completely under her control. Maybe tracking happens at random from time to time. It doesn't seem that way in the other instances, but it could be.
    • She had no direct control. It would trigger when someone looked at the horn (hence why it would happen when people pointed it out) and swap her with that person. That's how it worked when it happened in places she was far away and couldn't see what was going on.

     Another license problem 
  • In The Puppteer 2, there is a wax museum of superhero and villain statues, which is very questionable, legally and morally. Like the question about Making a Ladybug Movie, I can accept that LB and CN are unable to trademark their images since they must keep their secret identities. But that doesn't apply to the akumatized villians. How can the museum got permission to do what they did? Many of the villain's real identity is underage, and I really doubt that anyone want their "crimes" being reminded to people, brainwashed or not.
    • Well, considering that the world of Miraculous has other heroes and supervillains that are unrelated to the Miraculous according to Word of God, wax figures are allowed for the same reason why you can make movies about current Presidents, rulers, etc. Also, wax figures in general aren't illegal, and if anyone wanted a wax figure if themself removed then I guess they could just threaten to sue the museum, or something.

     Mr. Pigeon 
  • Given his proven ineptitude as a supervillain, why does Hawk Moth continue to akumatize M. Ramier? Twenty four times, we're told.
    • Because he can turn one pigeon into a Killer Rabbit, as shown in Gamer 2.0.
    • Hawkmoth takes what he can get, and there's no downsides beyond some time wasted. If Ramier is the only one down enough to get Akumatized at that point he'll take it and risk another failure over not having a Miraculous stealing attempt that day. At best he gets lucky, at worst nothing changes.

     Hawk Moth's powers as an adult 
  • In the Time Tagger episode, they say that Bunnix can use her power multiple times because she is an adult. If that is so, wouldn't that apply to Hawk Moth and if so, why doesn't he just send out multiple Akumas every time?
    • Multiple times but only one use at a time. Bunnix only creates a single portal at once, similar to how Hawkmoth has at times immediately created another Akuma once the previous had been depowered but couldn't make more than one at a time without a power up.
    • Alternatively, his miraculous could run on different rules. Unlike Cat Noir's Cataclysm, Ladybug's Lucky Charm, or any other hero's ability, Hawk Moth's akumatization doesn't involve a flashy sequence or Calling Your Attacks; he just cups his hand and boom, done.

     The heroes and the government 
  • Why aren't Ladybug and Cat Noir paid by the government? Thanks to the Lucky Charm, Ladybug has likely saved up to millions of dollars from property damage to even medical fees. Every time after a akumatization battle, they can just go up to city hall and just get a check from André Bourgeois or something like that? This isn't just for the Miraculous heroes, but superheroes in general.
    • Payment by check and secret identities don't go together, as Spider-Man once learned.
    • Adrien doesn't have any reason to seek payment for his services. Not only is he the son of the fabulously wealthy Gabriel Agreste, but he also has a successful career as a model, for which he is presumably being paid. And Marinette isn't really the type of person to expect compensation for saving people. She does it because it's right.

     Lila's mother 
  • Why doesn't Marienette as Ladybug tell Lila's mother about her behavior? I don't find it a stretch of the imagination for her to say "Your daughter has been connected with a few Akumatizations and in one those incidents she knowingly set me up to be killed and tried her best to make sure it happened which Cat Noir can verify." Then she can say she decided to interview a few of her classmates and one of them told her about her behavior in class and feels like she needs help.
    • Because Lila's mother is always busy at work so Ladybug couldn't even find the time to talk to her. Even if they have this conversation, and Lila's mother DID confront her daughter, Lila would obviously lie about that, and even then Lila's mother still won't have the time to check on her often.

     How did Rose get infected in "Zombizou?" 
  • I replayed the sequence in "Zombizou" where Rose supposedly gets infected multiple times and I can't see where that could have happened. She rescues Chloe, gets grabbed on the ankle by a zombie, then gets whisked to safety by Ladybug. The zombie that grabbed her was the only one to get anywhere near her and the infection isn't transmitted by touch, so how did she get infected?
    • Zombizous might have blown her a sneaky kiss.
    • Juleka got infected without realizing it, she infected Rose. They kissed off screen in a scene.
     Ladybug and Cat Noir's greatest fears vs. Marinette and Adrien's 
  • In "Sandboy", why do Ladybug and Cat Noir have different fears than Marinette and Adrien? They're not distinct personalities. Marinette and Ladybug are the same person, so why should one fear being powerless and the other not? Ditto with Cat Noir: If he fears Ladybug hating him, shouldn't Adrien too?
    • Different priorities. While Adrien was in his civilian form, he didn't have to worry about Ladybug hating him since he wasn't Chat Noir at that moment, and Ladybug still doesn't know that Chat Noir is Adrien.

     Feast's Akuma? 
Isn't Feast supposed to be immune to the effects of the Miraculous? If that's the case, shouldn't Hawk Moth be unable to evilize him?
  • You can willingly accept to be akumatized even without having bad emotions. Maybe Mayura forced Feast to accept the akuma.
  • "Immune to the effects" usually just means "it's immune to being attacked by this". I mean I imagine it could still be protected by Shell-ter, as it as well as Akumas and Amoks aren't really used to attack in the slightest. You could also maybe exit its body using Voyage or Burrow, or possibly trick it with Mirage. No Miraculous could directly affect it in a way that would be negative to it- Showtime, the three Dragons powers, and Cataclysm wouldn't be able to do anything to it. But the Akuma isn't causing it harm. That seems to be the case anyway.

     Why doesn't Peacock Miraculous get fixed? 
  • After Feast was defeated, Miraculous Ladybug restored everything back, even the Guardian of Miraculous which was destroyed more than a century ago. Why is Peacock Miraculous the exception? It should get fixed like the Rabbit Miraculous in "Timebreaker". At the very least, should it be back in the Miraculous box?
    • The magic Ladybugs can't transport other Miraculous for some reason as shown when Marinette assumes they'd return the Bee to Fu when she drops it only to be told that not the case. Otherwise they would just take The Moth Miraculous away from Hawkmoth. Presumably that's a rule set so that the holder of the Ladybug can't just steal other people's Miraculous. As far as fixing it, that might require the holder to be aware there's something to be fixed in the first place and Marinette and Fu aren't aware it's damaged.
    • It's more likely I think that the damage to the Peacock simply was not caused by the Sentimonster incident. Miraculous Ladybug can't fix things not related to the incident they're fixing, or it would have fixed the temple long ago. It's possible the Peacock Miraculous was damaged prior to Fu using it (notice how he also turns blue with pink eyes like Mayura and Duusu, but both Ancient Chinese Peacocks shown in the book do not have blue skin) or maybe after the incident. If it was already damaged, he likely didn't suffer any adverse effects because it would seem the Peacock's damage worsens the more it's used. Otherwise Gabriel likely would never have let Emilie use it to the point she fell into a coma, given what he's like. For more proof it could have been broken, Alix is able to use the Rabbit but she doesn't suffer permanent damage like Nathalie after one use.

     What the hell was going on with the seating arrangement in "Chameleon?" 
  • In what world does it make more sense to go through a convoluted rearrangement of seats that forces Marinette to move to the back than to just reassign one person from the front row to the back? Also, did none of Marinette's friends think it might be a good idea to consult her before making any decision that affected her like that? They should all be well aware of the danger of akumatization at this point.
    • Even if one of their classmates did get akumatized, they would all believe that Ladybug and Cat Noir would fix it in the end anyways. But I don't get the seating rearrangements either. Rule of Drama, maybe?
    • The class just took the opportunity to sit with the people they're closest to- Alix with her best friend Nate, Mylene with her boyfriend Ivan, Alya and Nino together, Rose and Juleka, Chloe and Sabrina, Kim and Max... that kind of left Marinette alone by default. Plus, it's worth pointing out, Alya said it was Lila who suggested the seating.

     On the topic of damaging and breaking Miraculous... 
  • Over the course of the first three seasons so far, we see three Miraculous come to harm- the Bee, the Peacock, and the Rabbit. The Bee is broken by Cataclysm, the Peacock is damaged at an unknown time through unknown means, and the Rabbit is damaged once by Cataclsym in the future, but it's also broken/damaged when it's in disguised mode way back in Season 1 through the simple act of dropping it and rolling over it with skates. In fact it's broken very easily. Does this mean that Miraculous are much easier to break when disguised? And why did Cataclysm break the Bee, but only damage the Rabbit? Furthermore, why does the Peacock cause severe illness after use, but the Rabbit did not despite both of them being damaged? Is the damage accumulative within the Miraculous AND the user, so the first few times the Peacock was used after damage it didn't do any damage or very little to the bearer, but Emilie using it multiple times both made every use hurt more, and made her own damage worse? Or is the damage different for every Miraculous? If so, why does the Peacock make someone physically pained?
    • There's a theory going around that since the Peacock Miraculous is damaged, it absorbs the holders life force to sustain itself.
    • "Why did Cataclysm break the Bee, but only damage the Rabbit": The destructive power of Cataclysm depended on the user's intention. The Rabbit case was an accident, while Cat Noir DID want to destroy the Bee to release the akuma.
    • "Why does the Peacock cause severe illness after use, but the Rabbit did not": the Rabbit has NOT been used after it's damaged. Bunnyx had to stay in transformation mode for thousands of years, she only transformed back by using Present Alix's watch (which has already been fixed in Timebreaker)

     Multimouse's timer 
  • Multimouse activates Multitude and creates all of her clones then flies off to fight Kwamibuster. There is absolutely no way the following events take place over less than five minutes and therefor she shouldn't have been able to sustain her transformation long enough to take the events to their resolution. Thomas would probably give some nonsensical excuse that because Multimouse was wearing a bunch of different Miraculous it bypassed the timer or whatever.
    • The shows never been great at showing that time limit realistically before (like Christmaster where the 5 minutes is practically half the episode) so it's totally possible it was supposed to take place in 5 minutes even if the actual runtime is longer. I'm pretty sure there's a trope for that actually.
    • I actually took a look at the runtime between the very end of the Multitude activation sequence and the division of Mullo from Ladybug's powers. The total runtime appeared to be 5:54. There was, however, about 18 seconds of Hawkmoth monologuing after getting defeated yet again. There was also about 9 seconds of Adrien talking to Plagg before transforming back into Chat Noir. This shaves off 27 seconds from the runtime, leaving only 27 seconds left. Finally, there is about 30 seconds between Multimouse and the Kwamis leaving Master Fu's place and showing up in time to save Adrien. That means that in order for the timing to make sense, it had to have taken the Kwamis less than 3 seconds to travel from Master Fu's place to the first floor lobby of that building. Not... completely impossible, I suppose? There were also a few other scenes within that runtime that could've plausibly happened at the same time. As long as it's believable for Kwamis to travel long distances in only a few seconds, the timing can be plausible. Alternatively... maybe Kaalki teleported everyone there?

     Multimouse's reveal 
  • While Marinette's plan to throw Cat Noir off about her identity as Ladybug seems to go off without a hitch, there is a major flaw with it. As Multimouse, she reveals to Cat Noir that it was Ladybug who gave her the Mouse Miraculous. At the time this would have theoretically happened, Tikki had already been captured by Kwamibuster. Combining this with Marinette outing herself as Multimouse, to an outside observer it would seem to imply that, while Marinette is not Ladybug herself, she does know who is. This seems like a major risk to take and could easily mark Marinette as a target for Hawk Moth.
    • Well, hopefully Hawkmoth is too dumb to realise this... As for the plans flaw, I think it just goes to show how bad a liar Multimouse is and highlights why she wouldn't be a very good Fox Miraculous holder. Marinette is a terrible liar, after all.
    • If necessary, Marinette could say Ladybug was wearing some sort of disguise when recruiting her as Multimouse. Or she just used another Miraculous.
      • Adrien himself was wearing a banana costume and in "Feast", while he was wearing that same costume, Marinette was wearing that bicyclist outfit, so this follow-up lie could work.
    • Chloé received a Miraculous from Ladybug, but doesn't know who she is, so as far as Hawk Moth knows, there's no point trying to get information from Marinette that she doesn't have.

     Restoring Emilie 
  • A doctor or paramedic somewhere in Paris, one fairly new to the profession, is losing a patient for the first time. "Panacea, I am Hawk Moth. I give you the power to heal even the most severe injuries. In return, I need you to heal a particular person." Is there any reason this wouldn't be possible?
    • Emilie isn’t injured. She’s in “eternal sleep”. Medical powers can’t heal what is essentially a coma.
    • But the power Hawk Moth gives to this hypoethical akuma wouldn't just be extraordinary medical skill, it would be a literally magical healing power. So it would be possible for them to heal Emilie.
    • It's possible that he doesn't trust such a thing to work, and isn't taking any chances. The power of the Miraculous' is the only thing he can be certain would heal her. It's crazy, but it wouldn't be OOC for him.

     Hawk Moth and time travel 
  • Hawk Moth's stated goal is to restore Emilie. It's heavily implied that she got hurt from using the damaged Peacock Miraculous. Hawk Moth can create villains with time travel powers. So why has it never occured to him to send an akumatized time traveller to the past and prevent Emilie from using/getting the Peacock in the first place?
     Character accents 
  • The series takes place in Paris, France. Why are Jean (Chloe's butler) and Andre (the ice cream man) the only ones with an appropriate accent in the English version?
    • What is an "appropriate" accent for translating a native-born speaker using their native language? Probably no accent. The butler and the ice-cream vendor may be foreign-born characters.

     Hawk Moth's inconsistent Even Evil Has Standards 
  • "Gorizilla"? Suspects Adrien of being Cat Noir, but is conflicted enough to actually spare Ladybug rather than lose him. "Cat Blanc"? Learns that Adrien is Noir... and has no conflict whatsoever, instantly deciding to Kick the Morality Pet Up to Eleven in favor of victory. What gives?
    • This isn't an uncommon occurrence. When Kagami was akumatized in "Riposte" and went after Adrien, Gabriel didn't bat an eyelash when she cut the car he was riding in, swung a sword at him that cut through steel or injured himself saving Ladybug.
    • Yeah, but that doesn't explain why his concern for Adrien's safety is so inconsistent.
      • While Gabriel does Adrien he clearly loves Emilie as well whom he has resorted to terrorism to bring back. He even formed an alliance with a pathological liar who borderline harasses Adrien and tried getting one of his friends expelled. Perhaps achieving his goal is increasingly becoming his top priority.

     Why does no one comment on Adrien's smell? 
  • Adrien has, more than once, complained about having to smell like Camembert all the time because of Plagg. Why does no one ever comment on it?
    • It's possible that he's had that smell on him long enough that nobody finds it out of place anymore due to olfactory fatigue. Additionally, Adrien didn't go to a public school until the day he got the Cat Miraculous, so the only ones who would really notice any difference would be Gabriel, Nathalie and his bodyguard, who are all aware of Adrien's increased cheese intake, and Chloe, who wouldn't be likely to point out something like that to her beloved Adrikins.

     Lack of punishment 
  • In “Miracle Queen” Chloe willingly teamed up with Hawk Moth, a wanted terrorist, and exposed almost every Miraculous wielder's identity. Yet, her only punishment for what is high treason is having her Miraculous confiscated? You'd think she'd at least be recommended for juvenile detention.
    • The only characters who know about this are Gabriel, Nathalie, Marinette and Adrien. Everybody else was brainwashed at that time. It is likely that Marinette and especially Adrien still care enough about her to spare her the exposure.
    • Presumably it's not worth half the city getting Akumatized in anger trying to kill her for selling them out to the villain and turning on their beloved heroine. Unless she continues being a problem they might be content to just leave it be.
     Who was picking up Kagami? 
  • In Riposte, we see a car picking up Kagami. The only family members we know of is her Mother and her Grandfather. Who was picking her up? It couldn't have been her mother as, as we later find out, Tomoe is unable to drive due to being blind.
    • Her mother, since she has a self-driving car.

     Fixing Master Fu's mistake 
  • Why didn't Master Fu use the Rabbit Miraculous so he could go back in time in order to fix his mistake and prevent himself from creating the Sentimonster from “Feast”?
    • Maybe he didn't want to risk causing a Temporal Paradox.
    • It would also likely prevent him from ever meeting Marianne Lenoir.

     Where's Aspik and Multimouse? 
Did no one wonder why Marinette and Adrien didn't come for their Miraculouses during Miracle Queen episode? Admittedly, only Ladybug can wonder about Aspik, since no one else ever saw him.
  • Only CN and maybe Ms. Mendeleiv saw Multimouse. If necessary, Marinette can come up with an excuse. Either she was able to hide somewhere out of reach of the bees, or something may have incapacitated her after being stung. (A good number of sting victims might have had accidents such as falling, car crashes, etc.)
    • They both were near water sources (like the Seine) when the wasps came by, and Luka and Kagami were with them before they got stung. They can tell anyone who knows they got a Miraculous once that they were out of reach from the wasps, with each other's love rivals vouching for them since they were there.

    If Chloé Bourgeois is no longer Queen Bee why is she on the poster as Queen Bee? 

    What did Emilie use the Peacock Miraculous for? 
  • Emilie must've used it even more than Nathalie has since Nathalie isn't in a coma. Yet, nothing suggests that there's been anyone jumping around town in a peacock costume, or weird creatures roaming the city, before the show's current events. If this sort of thing had happened, you'd think it'd have come up by now.
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