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Dethroning Moment / Pokémon Anime

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With over 1,000 episodes and 20+ movies under its belt, this show undeniably has moments that the cast, deep down, wishes some act of Arceus could make them forget.

Keep in mind:

  • Sign your entries
  • One moment per work to a troper, if multiple entries are signed to the same troper the more recent one will be cut.
  • Moments only, don't say "just everything he said, " or "This entire season, " entries.
  • No contesting entries. This is subjective, the entry is their opinion.
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  • No natter. As above, anything contesting an entry will be cut, and anything that's just contributing more can be made its own entry.
  • Explain why it's a Dethroning Moment Of Suck.
  • No ALLCAPS, no bold, and no italics unless it's the title of a work. We are not yelling the DMoSs out loud.

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    Indigo League 
  • Sahgo: Ash giving away Primeape. Now, Ash and friends leaving their Pokémon behind is nothing new, but usually they have genuine reasons for needing to leave, even if it's a stupid reason (hey, Ambipom). But Primeape's case was just nonsensical - Ash joins a tournament for Fighting-type Pokémon, and Primeape wins it. Then Ash leaves it with the guy he defeated, because he promises to make Primeape a true champion, or something. Compare this with Charizard's departure - the lizard was left in a valley where even the weakest Charizard was stronger than it. It would get stronger. Primeape, on the other hand, was left with Pokémon weaker than it. How in blazes does that make any sense?
    • Dashguy: Now, let's clarify some stuff here: Ash never faced Anthony during said tournament and Anthony's Hitmonchan lost to Team Rocket's Hitmonlee because they cheated. If anything, it's just another case of "leaving his Pokemon in the hands of a more experienced trainer". The true DMoS is that Ash gave it away in the very same episode he finally managed to create a bond with it. Moreover it was barely the second episode Primeape had appeared and we haven't seen anything about it ever since.
  • Saiyan Warrior 006: In the following episode to Ash's defeat in the Indigo League, everyone gets onto him and said if he trained Charizard better he would've won and told him not to make excuses for his loss. What?! Gee, thanks a lot Delia, Misty, Brock, and Professor Oak! You weren't the ones kidnapped and forced to waste time and energy getting back to the stadium and fight with a handicap so of course you would've won if that had happened to you instead. Honestly if I was Ash, the next time Team Rocket kidnapped one of them I would've said "Nice knowing ya" and went the other direction with the way they acted like jerks and treated him.
  • The Farmboy: An episode that rubbed me the wrong way was the episode "Pokemon Scent-sation", where they were in Celedon City. When Ash started to say some slanderous things about perfume, Erika comes in to give Ash a verbal chewing. Fair enough, but then we learned that she banned Ash from entering the gym. Really now? An adult woman barring a ten year old because he insulted her perfume. That just makes her sound like a twelve year old on Deviantart. Plus I do not think Erika would act that way in the game. Shame that is the same episode that gives us a cross-dressing Ash.
    • Little Sheep: It was moreso her staff that banned Ash, not Erika herself, but considering later in the anime (Showdown at Dark City) we're introduced to the concept of Pokemon League Inspectors, it just baffles me that the Gym staff would be so petty they would bar a trainer who didn't blindly agree with them. What, does that mean every challenger who expresses dislike of perfume they make gets banned?! Gee, an inspector would really approve of that.
  • mariic: "The Kangaskhan Kid", oh boy, where to begin? The fact that the writers can't seem to decide whether or not they're in the safari zone is tolerable, but there's the fact that the title character of the episode was originally lost in the woods because his father accidentally dropped him out of a helicopter (though he had a parachute on, granted.) and said father blamed it on his wife. The fact that she didn't take the opportunity to divorce him the instant she could only makes things worse, as did the fact that he was neither arrested back then nor when he told this sob story to Officer Jenny. Speaking of Jenny, she took this opportunity to tell them Tommy's address (when someone should have told it to them five years ago). When they do find him, Papa took that opportunity to hit Tommy over the head with his cane (allegedly to help him remember them, which actually works). He then exposes his bare chest to Tommy to help him remember. To make things worse, our heroes can't decide whether or not Tommy should go with his parents, even though it's obvious he shouldn't. After the couple kamikazies Team Rocket's giant robot (and somehow survive), they decide to stay behind with Tommy, in spite of the fact Papa's a Child beating, child losing, perverted freak who should have been arrested a long time ago.

    The Johto Journeys 
  • Ur Leingod "Charizard's Burning Ambitions". I get that Ash gives up all his Mon's except Pikachu in the lead-up to a new season (which has led to many of the DMoSes on this page, come to think of it), but this is the one that personally offended me. As someone who lists "Volcanic Panic" (the episode where Ash's Charizard fights Blaine's Magmar) as one of his favorite episodes ever, the idea that there's an entire valley full of Charizard where even the weakest one can utterly Curb Stomp Ash's Charizard without any effort is just one big slap to the face, the implication here being that any single one of these wild Charizard could completely mop the floor with the strongest Pokemon of the 2nd strongest (and most entertaining) gym leader in the whole damn region! A whole bunch of buildup, a spectacular climax, one of the coolest battles in the series (in my opinion)... and then about 60 episodes later we basically learn that they're both total pussies. And what makes it worse is that they had no reason to make Charizard a total bitch compared to everyone else there. We've established already that Charizard is incredibly proud and arrogant, even just learning his strength was only average for a Charizard could have spurred him to stay and train. But no, we had to wring some cheap laughs out of one of my favorite Pokemon getting creamed by the runt of the litter.

  • Retloclive: The episode "Ready, Willing, and Sableye" is a really disturbing episode when it comes to the message it was trying to show concerning Ash's Corphish. The episode starts off seemingly ok by making it clear that Corphish was still being a tad bit uncontrollable being the newest Pokémon capture under Ash's command, and causing problems for the group. So how does the episode decide to go about trying to solve this? By having Ash and company put together a "courage test" where they attempt to scare Corphish straight in a dark mine shaft...Wow episode. This is freaking sick. You're basically having Ash and company trying to traumatize Corphish just to get him to calm down. This disgusting solution doesn't even come close to answering the problem regarding how to calm Corphish down. I totally sympathized with Corphish when he chose to rebel against Ash in this episode when it found out that its trainer was trying to frighten it, because this was really messed up. For me, this is easily one of the worst episodes to come out of the Advanced series.

    Advanced Challenge 
  • terlwyth: The departure of Misty from the was the final nail in the coffin after Johto League Champions started to embrace Filler and the Villain Decay/Took a Level in Dumbass in Team Rocket over what came before. The True Companions had really grown strong and developed, and then that episode came, good-bye Misty. Then came The Princess and the Togepi. Misty makes a reappearance and... she doesn't have any Deadpan Snarker tendencies, she's actually kind of ditzy! WTH!? I tried to get May to grow on me, but this episode cemented that Pokémon is no longer watchable for me.
  • akaun6899: The episode "A Double Dilemma" left a really bad taste in my mouth regarding its treatment of Ash. May and Max are recognized by the citizens of Petalburg as Norman's kids, so they get littered with fans. Ash tries to impress them by showing off his badges, but they dismiss him. Okay, fair enough, May and Max are related to a famous (?) Gym Leader, and Ash is just some kid. Next, two kids challenge Ash to a battle, saying that only those worthy of Norman can battle him. He defeats both of them, as well as tons of challengers coming off those kids. When the two lead citizens (a reporter and a shopowner) take note of this, they make May battle Ash. During this battle, whenever Ash's Taillow succeeds in attacking Torchic, the crowd boos him, and loudly at that.. You even see him wind up in pseudo-fetal position because of the crowd's bias. And then, when Team Rocket is exposed (they were posing as May and her family; somehow everyone believed that two obvious Pokémon are human children) and blasted off, the crowd falls in love with Pikachu, while still cruelly snubbing Ash. The reporter even calls him a pathetic novice. Well, Mr. Stuck-Up Reporter, who do you think trained that goddamn Pikachu?! The pathetic novice, that's who! Remarkably, Ash takes it rather well ("At least they like one of us"), but that doesn't excuse how disgusting these characters-of-the-day are.

    Diamond And Pearl 
  • Cerotech Omega: Gary tried real hard to be king asshole during Kanto and bits of Johto. And yet, he can't compare to Paul's ragequitting on Ash at the tag tournament! Good Arceus almighty, where to begin with that abominable act? If Paul's supposed to be a “Stop Having Fun” Guy, why does he do something even Smogon deems wrong (while I personally don't like metagame elitism, I have to cut them some slack aside from Tobias, who someone mentioned further down)?! The abuse of Chimchar goes to a whole 'nother level on top of that, and millions were watching, both in-person and via broadcast, meaning that everyone got a good glimpse of this debacle! And yet the writers treat the whole clusterfuck as a motherfucking blam - Barry chimes in later about Paul's victory (Ash made the winning effort, dumbass!), and worse still, even Ash doesn't bring it up when he and Mister Easily Forgiven Asshole buddy up after their match at the Sinnoh Conference! Tobias, Cameron and Alain's wins are horrendous enough on their own, but this was the moment I felt the writing of the anime was taking a very sharp turn for the worse; I might have not quit at Cameron's clusterfuck victory had this not happened in the first place.
    • King Cr Inu Yasha: Probably the worst part is in one of the early episodes, an enraged Brock nearly starts a Pokémon Bar Brawl when confronting a trainer laughing about abandoning a Charmander to the elements without telling it. Here, Paul doesn't even get so much as a slap on the wrist for his actions.

    Galactic Battles 
  • Hammer Of Justice: Paul himself is an absolute drain on the anime for this troper but the absolute pinnacle of this must be the two-part battle at Lake Acuity. Since it happens after Paul's abusive training methods are revealed, one would expect Ash to defeat him thanks to his bonds with his Pokemon, but no, the writers show that they have no intention of actually punishing Paul for his actions by letting him beat Ash 6-2. For the curious as to how this balances out, it doesn't. The series ends with Paul suffering exactly two losses, once to a Frontier Brain (essentially an Elite Four member), and secondly to Ash at the League, but he still finishes top 8 which is supposed to be a huge accomplishment.

    Sinnoh League Victors 
  • Tropers/stuartbrock: My original DMoS was Pika and Goliath, but then I remembered Strategy Begins At Home!. Basically, it starts off really boring, even by Sinnoh filler standards. It stays that way for quite a while (which is to say, still boring) before Ash meets a COTD who wants to be a bug type trainer when he gets older. The boy admires a bunch of Bug-type Pokémon, including a Heracross, which prompts Ash to tell him about his own Heracross, and also Bulbasaur. Then they make him say this: "Wow... Nathaniel reminds me of me!". I tuned out right after that. Why, why would you make him say something so OoC and... stupid?!
  • Manwiththeplan: When Ash actually did win against Paul, at long last, in the Sinnoh League... and Paul shrugged it off, he and Ash parted as friends all of a sudden, with Paul being treated as redeemed despite very little indication of it and no formal apology for his Jerkass behavior in the past. This is Character Development for Paul gone horribly, horribly wrong, and as a result, he comes across as an incredible Karma Houdini. Also, to put it more into perspective how inappropriate this is: this was in the Sinnoh League tournament, close to the end, with Paul's dream of becoming a champion in sight... and he loses to Ash, the trainer he looked down upon, and Infernape, the evolution of the Pokemon he let go! Ash went into depression after losing to Ritchie in the Indigo League; Paul should have had a flat-out Villainous Breakdown here. But no, Atsuhiro Tomioka (the writer) can't have his pet character's "coolness" and composure ruined like that. He has him accept the defeat easily and be treated as a reformed, respectable trainer by characters and fans alike. Bull. Shit.
  • Light Deoxys: The last Sinnoh League episode of Pokémon. Ash has finally defeated his Jerkass rival Paul, and is advancing in the league... but guess who he comes up against? An evil-looking trainer who defeats Ash with a fucking Darkrai and Latios! Okay, I'm suddenly enraged... This isn't like the previous leagues, where we had a trainer with a non-legendary defeat Ash and win the league or the chance to beat the Elite Four... but come on! Two fucking legendaries?! This is a fucking cop-out! Why did they just make an asspull so Ash could lose and be "inspired" to go to the Unova region?! Why couldn't they just use a fully-evolved starter like Blaziken near the end of the Silver Conference?!
    • fluffything: While I didn't mind that Tobias had a Darkrai and a Latios. However, my main peeve with the episode is that there is no explanation as to why Tobias has Legendaries. None. We're just led to assume that he's always had them. Um, no, no. That's not how it works. Pokémon, if you want trainers to use Legendaries now, fine. Great. But, at least give us an explanation as to how they obtained said Legendaries. Otherwise, it just feels like you're pulling it out of your ass.
      • Cyber Tiger 88: It wouldn't be that bad if Tobias had some screen time before his battle with Ash. At least the characters that won against Ash in previous tournaments had an episode or two that showed how they got their Pokemon, allowed them to demostrate their skills, had a close battle that kept fans on their toes, and made them likable people. Tobias came out of no-where and flat out curb-stomped Ash, so his appearance came across as a badly-done giant middle finger to everyone who dared to hope that Ash could win a tournament other than the one in the Orange Islands arc.
      • Star Tropes: Not to mention the fact that TPTB had spent DP playing up the fact that whoever won the Sinnoh League earned the chance to face the Elite 4 and Cynthia. Just the sort of thing Ash would love to do. And on that note, we get...nothing! No Elite 4 challenge, no epic battle against Cynthia. Sorry, Ashy-boy. Sorry, everyone who wanted to see that battle.

    Black And White 
  • K Man: K Man here with a magnificent tale of Ash, a trainer with four generations of Pokemon experience losing to a noob! That is right, folks, Ash's new rival in Best Wishes is a guy fresh out of the lab and in a 5 on 5 battle he goes and loses 2-5. How in the name of Arceus does that happen? Pikachu has its Electric moves back and Ash has all the starters at this point and he loses to this wannabe. Hell, Trip didn't even show his last two Pokemon, and has the audacity to taunt Ash after the battle. At least his Curb-Stomp Battle with Paul had both trainers having equal experience but this is just Arrrggghhh!
    • Gintax Alvissforever: I was equally annoyed with this scene originally because she thought that the writer of this episode was Atsuhiro Tomioka (the writer who created Paul). As a result, I thought Trip would be exactly the same as Paul... thank God for Hidden Depths but what pisses me off is that the writer of this episode just had to make Ash look stupid (seriously, attacking Frillish that has Cursed Body?!) and make Trip look like a prick. Luckily, Ash took it better than Paul did and thank God they didn't make Trip invincible after that.
    • Trialman: Okay, I'll be the first to admit that I do like Iris, but even then, her reaction to the Frillish incident did get under my skin. She yells at Ash about how blindly attacking a Frillish that has Cursed Body is an inherently stupid idea. It is a bad idea, but how would Ash know? Ash has spent the past 10 years in regions where Frillish is not native. Not to mention that in fact, the Cursed Body Ability was newly introduced for Gen 5, and the Frillish line was the only one that had it as a non-Hidden Ability. How could you expect Ash to know the details of the whole thing? Of course, the scene is also written to make Ash look like an idiot for attacking the Frillish, which also makes this a horrible moment for the writers. Iris' reaction also got under my skin, since this is around the time she was beginning to mellow out about Ash, but then they make her start yelling at him again, solely to make him look bad. I might enjoy Best Wishes myself, but a moment like this makes me understand the reputation as a Dork Age.
  • Violet Pup 18: I loved the episode "Snivy Plays Hard To Catch!", especially because I love Snivy, but there are 3 things I'm bothered by: 1) The fact that Ash just throws a Pokeball at Snivy without thinking (to which she easily gets out), as if she's the Caterpie from Season 1; 2) and then later says "What do you mean?" when Iris considers that Snivy might have been abandoned. What's wrong with that? He was acting like the last 4 generations never happened! Finally, Snivy appears to have a past of being abandoned, which would have been a great thing to focus around for a new episode... but it was only mentioned in "Evolution By Fire!" once, then never brought up again. Seriously?!

    Rival Destinies 
  • Tropers/Samusforce: For me, it doesn't get any worse than Ash's fourth gym battle in this season. He goes into a fight with just one Pokemon, expecting to win with just ONE, and he loses and begs to hold off the rest of the fight to come back with a new one! Look, if you want a rookie, then just give us a brand new character with a brand new backstory. DON'T give us a character that we have stuck through with for years and make him pull off rookie moves and lose so easily to a gym leader. This wasn't funny, dramatic, or serious, it was just a reason to make Ash look bad and the viewers wondering why they haven't played the game instead.

    Adventures In Unova 
  • Midna: Bianca's finally coming back for the Unova League! Geez, it only took, what, thirty episodes? I hope she does as well as she did back in the Clubsplosion. Oh, hey, she's going up against Cameron... What? She lost? Why did you bring back a character you haven't used in five months just so she can lose to some newbie and get shoved back Out of Focus for the rest of the arc, over the course of just two episodes, after she's shown so much improvement?! (And make her cry, lest we forget!) And after that? Shunted back to Chuck Cunningham Syndrome-ville, not even appearing in the one episode Cheren shows up in (and getting most of her screentime in the newest ending theme cut out to shoehorn in live-action footage of the singers, as if to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the writers hate her now). Most people probably wouldn't care one way or the other since she's so divisive as a character, but as a major Bianca fan this just feels like a big middle finger to me. In short: They Wasted a Perfectly Good Character. Absolutely inexcusable, and the single biggest reason why I don't watch the show anymore.
    • O-Zone: It gets worse... Cameron then faces and sure enough defeats Ash! C'mon it's bad enough that Ash once again loses the major tournament, but to have him lose to such a noob, the same guy who thought you needed 7 badges to enter the Unova League and thought said league was in Johto! He doesn't even show his full team for Arceus' sake!. At least Tobias had two legends to combat with so it sort of made sense that we didn't see his full team, even if that was a cheap tactic... but I think it's safe to say that Cameron has become the new Scrappy of Pokemon.
      • patrickab13: A few episodes later, adding insult to injury, Ash loses to newbie gym leader Cheren... because I guess losing is just what he does now.
      • Darkrage 6: It's getting tiresome seeing Ash repeatedly losing the league every single generation (barring Orange League and Battle Frontier) but having him lose to a complete moron like Cameron in only the top 8 without even getting to see his whole team was a new low for the franchise. It's a small consolation that Virgil beat Cameron, I know some people consider Virgil The Scrappy, but at least he's actually a competent trainer whose wins felt legitimate rather then caused by sheer dumb luck in the case of Cameron, it would've been a lot less painful had Ash made it to the final two and lost against him rather than Cameron.
  • DangerArtistNexus60: Ladies and gentleman, I proudly present to you "The Fires of a Red-Hot Reunion!". My Berserk Button was the flashback sequence where Ash's Charmander came into the picture: the scene with Team Rocket and Damien was messed up since they could've recreated those memories correctly; instead, it was like a straight up insult to the Rebuild of Evangelion movies given the animation itself.
  • Loekman 3: The Ghetsis that appears in this anime bears absolutely no resemblance to the Ghetsis that appears in the video game incarnation. Why? Its because in this universe, his entire plan hinges on summoning the Legendary Pokemon Reshiram (If it follows the game version, he would have treated the Dragon as just another Pokemon for his own plans). And when Pikachu immediately breaks the White Dragon free with just a single thunderbolt does he challenge Ash to a battle and wipe the obnoxious trainer with his own Hydreigon? Nope, he just tries to pointlessly order Reshiram around and gets arrested immediately without putting up any fight. This is a massive insult to Ghetsis fans (Including me) who wishes that the creators treat him just like what they did with Pokemon Hunter J, an intimidating, cunning badass villain who manages made the tone of Pokemon darker, not some sort of a Big Bad Wannabe whose role as The Heavy is replaced by Colress.

    The Series: XY 
  • Falcon Pain: The second episode of the XY season, "Lumiose City Pursuit", ends with Ash trying to pacify a Garchomp on top of Prism Tower (the Kalos equivalent of the Eiffel Tower). After he succeeds, disaster strikes as part of the tower crumbles and Pikachu is sent falling. Ash's immediate reaction is to jump off the tower after him. This part should be bad by itself, what with Ash's complete lack of ability to save himself or even Pikachu after his jump (he doesn't even have another Pokémon on hand that can fly or use psychic moves or vine whips or anything else that could help), but knowing that he is Hot-Blooded and cares deeply for Pikachu means we can understand his kneejerk reaction. Disaster is averted when the two are caught by an unexpectedly helpful Mega Blaziken. (And we'll set aside the physical problems that could cause, or the fact that Mega Blaziken could have caught Pikachu even without Ash's help.) No, the true issue is that, once everything is said and done, everyone else who saw the incident has nothing but positive opinions of his hasty actions that, in anything less than this idealistic universe, would have resulted in two fatalities instead of one. It's hard not to sympathize, but the show expects viewers to directly approve of it. It gets even worse when multiple characters have flashbacks to the scene whenever they think about how much Ash inspires them, and how later episodes often try to homage the sequence. It's not a stretch to say that the show considers this scene to be the moment that defines Ash as a protagonist from Kalos on... and if that's the case, it's really hard to stay interested in him.
  • Fisherman Benny: Episode XY010 was just wasted potential. What happens when you take a typical Team Rocket tries to catch Pikachu plot and bring Mega Evolutions into it? Well... more of the same thing. You might think my hopes were too unrealistic for an episode devoted to a typical Team Rocket plot, but... it has Mega Evolutions. That's why this episode fails so much: It tries to raise the stakes but doesn't go beyond the typical. It's trying to force you to take the situation seriously when nothing has changed. Basically, Team Rocket gets Mega Evolution data, and then wastes it on just Pikachu, only for them to get destroyed by Limone - who was revealed to be the masked man from XY002 - who didn't see this coming? - after Ash's group struggles to put a dent in their robot. That's right, Ash and company couldn't even scratch it, yet Limone shuts it down with one move. If it was that easy for Limone to take them down, maybe it wasn't worth it. How is this good writing again?
  • saiyan5ninetail: In the games, Korrina is a master of Mega Evolution, one of only five trainers in the entire region able to use Mega Evolution. In the anime? She needs Ash's help in order to get Lucarionite and to learn to Mega Evolve her Lucario, and her Lucario is apparently driven into an uncontrollable rage when Mega Evolved until, once again, Ash needs to help her on a journey to help Lucario control its Mega Evolution. In other words, they took away Korrina's significance to the story from the games for the sake of a contrived plot-line of Ash helping her master Mega Evolution. The anime is different from the games, but this treatment of Korrina's character compared to her game counterpart just seems callous.
    • palmer7: To add insult to injury, after Ash finally beats Korrina, he doesn't get a Key Stone of his own. You would think that after all this time he and his crew spent with Korrina and Lucario, the least she or Gurkinn could do was give Ash a Key Stone of his own.
  • The Call Out BS Man: When the TPCI English dub has Ash say the following in "A Rush of Ninja Wisdom": "Froakie, this is where we really need to step on the gas!" No kid in the world talks like this, not to mention it's completely out of character for Ash to say something like this.
  • SCP Ihpkmn: For once in his life, Ash makes it to the finals of a Pokemon League. The XY series has been great overall- better writing, better animation, better character development. In the finals, he's in a battle with Alain, a trainer who uses Mega Evolution, and has beaten Ash in the past. It's Ash-Greninja vs. Alain's Mega Charizard X- Ash has a Pokemon he's fully in sync with to the point where it's got its own Super Mode, on top of one of his best teams ever... and he loses! It's a complete anticlimax that shows how much the Status Quo Is God in this show- Ash can't ever win a Pokemon League, because if he did, the series would end. It feels like Alain's victory was pulled out of nowhere by bullshit Plot Armor. This completely derailed the series for me, just as I was starting to enjoy the Pokemon anime again, for the first time since I was seven. Whoever wrote this needs to be fired and never work in anime production again.
    • Hunter Seeker: I'll explain it a bit further since other entries had been taken out because seriously, it's just more than what the above troper said. Ash may probably never win a League proper, but how he loses this is downright humiliating to him and audiences. To explain how thick Plot Armor Alain (or specifically his Charizard) got, consider this: Ash-Greninja's huge Water Shuriken can defeat Sawyer's Mega Sceptile despite a total type disadvantage (along with its Leaf Storm but still), and then its powered-up version (the orange disc which is probably borrowed from Naruto) can't even seem to do any significant damage on Charizard (it was even nicknamed Healing Shuriken among some fandom); instead Greninja fall on one Blast Burn and just a few Dragon Claws (it parried most of Charizard's attacks, especially Thunderpunches)! This fight is complete bullshit even before other factors are added into the equation as follows: 1)The imperfect Ash-Greninja can flat-out curbstomp Mega'd Charizard, while the perfect-but-not-yet-100% Ash-Greninja can give even Diantha and her Mega Gardevoir (Kalos' Champion and her ace, mind you) a run for their money; 2)Before Greninja faced Charizard at the Final, Pikachu had already zapped Charizard with Thunderbolt, which is still super effective at time; 3) Greninja was totally uninjured when coming out and obviously has a type advantage against a battered Charizard; 4)Lysandre's MO and his actions against Ash during the Team Flare arc that followed the league became largely illogical (in the end, what's the point to chase after Ash's Bond Phenomenon when it can't even beat a normal Mega Evolution, and what's so special about the Phenomenon anyway?); 5)There are some weird lines and scenarios after the Kalos League which probably fit in if Ash was the winner (such as Alain saying he would never grow better than Ash, despite he was the actual winner of the League, and meanwhile Ash-Greninja didn't contribute much during the big fight, or at least not that much as expected); and 6)The amount of shilling from the anime staff showered on Ash over his possibility to finally win a League (in-universe or not) was unusually high, this single fucking fight (and Ash's loss) flushed XY's good reputation right down the shitter. (I just feel bad for Alain, somehow he is shaped to avoid all the complaints over Tobias, yet he unwillingly become one even worse than the original.)
    • Dr.XXX: Contrary, I didn't mind Ash losing. In fact, I saw it a mile away. The guy suggested the league to Alain so I see it as Hoist by His Own Petard. What bothers me is actually related to this though. Three years for some, ten years for others, or even twenty years of watchers saw Ash’s character struggle to get stronger and get one step closer to his dream. When he is so close to the next step, he loses. It’s not that he lost; it is what he did after he lost. He smiles. He simply smiles at losing the league. Someone also brought up another infuriating point. Due to the mechanics of Ash-Greninja, Ash felt every inch of pain sustained by Greninja, lost the chance to challenge the champion and possibly win, and lost to a guy he invited to the league. Naturally, the reaction of having the tar beaten out of you is to smile at it. It’s maddening that Team Rocket had a more emotional reaction to Ash losing the league. It feels like he simply did the league as way to see his friends and rivals again rather than out of any true desire.
    • SenorCornholio: I decided to change my moment back to this, not because of the fight itself (which looking back on it, was rather epic if you look past the whole "Ash losing" thing), but rather because of everything centered around it. Yes, it was teased that Ash would win and the anime pretty much lied to its viewers...except maybe it didn't mean to, initially. Everything that happened after Ash's ill-fated battle seemed to center around Ash winning against Alain instead of losing: Lysandre declaring Battle Bond as more useful than Mega Evolution, Alain's angst getting worse for Ash to snap him out of due to having entered for Mairin's sake, and Greninja's release as described below...all of this would have made a lot more sense, had Ash won his match. I know Greninja's departure had some major sentimental value for Rica Matsumoto, and Arceus bless her and Haro, but in my opinion it would have been a lot more tragic had Ash won; it'd have been this amazing trump card that Ash had throughout the season, that helped him win an honest to goodness Pokémon League for the first time since the Orange Islands, and now he has to release it for reason X. But because Ash lost, it doesn't feel like he earned that moment; it gives off the impression that the show planned on having him win a championship for the first time, but someone over at Shoppro said "lol, nope" and had him lose because the Status Quo Is God. Essentially, they seem to have changed one scene in their final draft but forgotten to change the rest. That, to me, is the most disheartening thing of all, that the anime cares so little about the league itself that they think the outcome doesn't matter. I get that the anime has proven time and again that it's not the destination that counts, but the journey you take to get there. But if that's the case, then why are they always hyping up the regional Pokémon League? If this is how all leagues are gonna be, then why even have them in the first place? If anything, the leagues officially feel more like filler than the anime's actual filler. At least the Sun and Moon anime so far is making up for that debacle.
    • rjd1922: The worst part is that Ash winning the league would not end the series; he could lose to the Elite Four in the Champion League and then continue his training in a new region.
  • Eddy 1215: Ash losing the Kalos League has officially been one-upped in terms of outrage. Ash. Has. Released. Greninja! Perhaps the most powerful Pokemon Ash has had, whom he went through so much with, and is able to bond with like no other, and he parts ways with it! Why? Not to be a defender or something, but to help Zygarde track down the remains of Team Flare's nature tampering! Even worse, since Greninja didn't help Ash win the Kalos League, it pretty much flushes away everything Ash has been through with it! That's right, the writers have taken the arc where Ash trains perhaps the strongest Pokemon he's ever had and rendered it All for Nothing! It's official. Everything that made XY such an amazing series has been destroyed! Even what the series managed to recover after Ash lost the league with the awesome Team Flare confrontation arc has been negated! If it weren't for the fact that I'm a dedicated fan with high hopes for the future, I'd leave this series.
    • Super Sonic Heroes: This is the episode that truly killed the series for me. The XY series began its fall from grace when Ash lost to Alain in the finals of the Kalos league, like many other fans I hated that moment, unlike other fans though I do not believe that the Team Flare arc made up for anything afterwards. The arc felt like filler and it was just wasting time trying to distract us from Ash's loss until it could get to Sun and Moon. Despite this I stuck with it hoping that something would happen to make up for Ash's undeserved loss. Would Alain be forced to give his title to the runner up perhaps, or face Ash one more time in a single match where Ash is the victor? No! Instead not only is Alain not punished at all for his involvement with Team Flare, Ash releases his best Pokemon, Greninja, for such a lame reason. Why does Greninja need to protect a legendary, how is he even going to do that without Ash? The whole point between the two was that they need each other to form Ash-Greninja! This episode has finalized what began with Ash's loss all those episodes ago, XY began as one of the best series the anime has had in a long time but they threw it all away. If anyone asks me, Ash won the Kalos league and none of this bullshit ever happened afterwards. This anime is dead to me.
  • Raptyr: A moment that specifically killed the dub for me: the scene where Lysandre is torturing and trying to control Ash. In the original Japanese, the whole scene with Ash fighting back and making a stand is probably my favourite moment of the series. I'd held out on the dub for a long time, knowing that it could pull off incredibly awesome moments, and hoping that they properly translated the epicness of that scene. What do I get? No tension, no drama, no epic moment of comeback. Just Ash looking like he's found a new way to use Magical Leaf. I'll still go back to some of the older episodes, for nostalgia. But from here on out? Sub only, thank you very much.
  • MsCC93: I didn't like one scene in the episode that came after Ash lost the gym battle with Wulfric. I felt it was forced fanservice between Serena and Ash. When Serena tried to comfort Ash after his loss, Ash just acts like a dick to her by telling her that she doesn't have a clue how he feels, thus prompting Serena to throw snowballs at Ash. It came off as forced and unnecessary and to please the shipping fanbase, and it just proved my point about Serena's character just being in the X&Y arc mostly for fanservice and shipping reasons.

    The Series: Sun and Moon 

    The Series: Sun & Moon—Ultra Adventures 
  • Regulas 314: In the battle against Ash and Hau during the Alola League, Ash’s Rowlet and Hau’s Decidueye clash in a Brave Bird/Sky Attack smash... which leaves both unconscious until Decidueye gets up! Hau is, naturally declared the winner! You’d think that would be enough by knocking Ash out during the semifinals right? No! AFTER Nanu makes the call to declare Hau the winner, Hala steps in and points out that Rowlet was actually SLEEPING! The little bastard FELL ASLEEP! HOW? Brave Bird is a recoil move that is very risky by itself and Rowlet had already taken significant damage before hand from Spirit Shackles thrice! Then, SOMEHOW it magically learns Feather Dance and, in a fashion unbefitting of the move, defeats Decidueye with it. It shouldn’t matter that Rowlet didn’t actually faint, it fell asleep outside of a status condition. Ash’s Charizard nodded off against Ritchie and Sparky and that meant an automatic loss. I knew Ash was gonna win this battle, but why did they have to do such a terrible fakeout? And why did they have to manage it in such a bullshit manner?

  • Latios 2: The ending of "Kyurem Vs The Swords Of Justice". The ending had an epic duel between Keldeo and Kyurem that's sure to be remembered, Kyurem having nearly frozen an entire city and scarring the living crap out of Keldeo and the protagonists making it a vastly intimidating villain that'll surely-... wait what? Kyurem's not evil?... Bullshit! While I do like the other movies, this is a cliché in the movies that has really grating my nerves for a while now! Deoxys and Darkai are the only two I let off the hook in this regard; Giratina was more so apathetic because it wasn't that poorly handled. Arceus was where it started getting annoying, and the antagonist for Black and White really started making it a problem... but Kyurem!? Kyurem was causing mayhem without a doubt over an entire city and hunted Keldeo down like a crazed bloodhound! But nope, Kyurem's not really evil. This really knocked the movie down several pegs having nearly ruined it.
  • Pgj1997: I love the Pikachu shorts. They're like the Pixar Shorts of anime. They're really fun to watch, and something to look forward to every time a new Pokémon movie comes out. That is except for "Pikachu's Island Adventure". You see, most Pikachu shorts have a No-Dialogue Episode sort of format, where the Pokémon are characterized to the point where there's a nice flowing narrative. Here however, they felt the need to have the narrator translate everything, giving the short no charm whatsoever. Plus, Roger Parson's voice gets grating after a while, added to the fact that he puts little to no variation on the voices he gives the Pokémon. Luckily, this style didn't stick around, but it still took away everything that made the other Pikachu shorts enjoyable in the first place.
  • Kirby0189: "Hoopa Clash of Ages" is my least favorite Pokemon movie for a multitude of reasons, but since I'm only allowed one, I'm going to talk about the ending. So essentially, Hoopa Unbound is no longer a threat, and everything is good. They could have ended the movie right there and it would have been merely average. Instead, a giant rift in space and time appears out of nowhere around the heroes, and everyone in the city inconveniently evacuated to that exact location. Why? There were too many legendaries present. Does that mean that my PC is going to summon a space-time rift because I have a lot of legendaries in it? Anyway, all of the legendaries just stand there, including the ones that actually have control over space and time, while Hoopa (the less I talk about him, the better) uses his hoops to help everyone escape. The plot point of Hoopa being unable to go through his own hoops becomes relevant again, and so thinks look bleak... but then the space-time rift stops for just long enough for Hoopa to escape because Arceus showed up out of nowhere to do what Dialga and Palkia were too lazy to accomplish, and that's it. Yea, I'm normally willing to accept the occasional Ass Pull in Pokemon movies (such as how various Pokemon were able to Mega Evolve without trainers or Kyurem being able to change between his Black and White forms on his own) because of Rule of Cool and the way a lot of the gimmicks work making it hard to feature them without some liberties, but this is too much.

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